HOMEBREW Digest #3376 Thu 13 July 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  home brew info ("Susan Mcgrath")
  RE: BAC Rant (Bob Sheck)
  Capt. America... (Sonny Baca)
  Fw: can you overdo hop flavour, Phils stolen idea ("Graham Sanders")
  no sparge ... ("Stephen Alexander")
  Fridge woes (fridgeguy)
  garden variety oxalic acid ("Dr. Pivo")
  honey (John Penn)
  Re: Hitch Hikers And Homebrewing (David Lamotte)
  Porkert grain mill ("Bill Riel")
  alkaline-shmalkaline ("Stephen Alexander")
  Content Definitions ("Dr. Pivo")
  solvent (category 4) ("Dr. Pivo")
  Uh-oh, they're on to me! ("Brian Lundeen")
  re:  Question about a keg ("Poirier, Bob")
  Correction (AJ)
  What !!??!!  Stupid alcohol laws. ("Stephen Alexander")
  thermo answer to L. Bonham ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Where to get empty "nip" bottles (John Baxter Biggins)
  My First Batch of Homebrew ("Leland Heaton")
  Re: phenolic flavors (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Bavarian helles (Spencer W Thomas)
  Breweries in N California (Nathan Kanous)
  Entertaining Ray ("Eric J Fouch")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:09:10 +1000 From: "Susan Mcgrath" <smcgrath at CSU.edu.au> Subject: home brew info Hi My husband is just starting to make homebrew. We live in Australia and you can get kits here. He has started on the kits and has found them to be easy. He has made up a system of four kegs that he has attached to the fridge in his brewery. He also has them so that they can be connected to taps on the outside of the fridge (for easy access!). My question is that we were wondering if anyone has any faviourite homebrew receipes that they could send us (we were hoping to start with something fairly easy and work up to harder brews). He wants to try and get more into making the brews from scratch instead of making them from kits. Any helpers please email smcgrath at csu.edu.au Thanks. Sue Sue McGrath Academic Secretariat Phillips Building Bathurst Campus Charles Sturt University Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 01:20:58 -0400 From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net> Subject: RE: BAC Rant Glen Pannicke, You're RIGHT ON! I gave up driving while/after drinking YEARS ago. I just won't do it any more! I love to enjoy good beer and plenty of it, but when it comes to driving- I do it stone cold sober or not at all. The risks are just too great, and maybe I've become a geezer, but I can wake up the next morning in my OWN bed with a clean conscience. As we learn to make better beer and fermentables, we need to insure we enjoy them in a way that it won't endanger others. And it is our responsibility to ensure that other members and visitors to our club meetings have a way to get home without driving impaired. And yes, I welcome the "alco-nazi" <s> because they are making it safer for the rest of us. We all share an equal stake in making sure our highways are safe. It's not a 'manly' thing anymore to drive when impaired. Oh, and thank you and all the rest of your Volunteer Fire Fighting/EMT folks for doing what you do. I feel secure in knowing the dedication and commitment to your self-chosen duties that you are on call for us 24/7. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:20:03 -0600 From: Sonny Baca <baca2000 at zianet.com> Subject: Capt. America... Luke Australia that is, Luke from Australia, not Luke Australia. Silly name really. But then, there is a captain America isn't there! I wonder what his first name is? Freddy America? The Capt. America that I would most relate to is the Peter Fonda character from the "Easyrider" flick (1969), not the Marvel comic book charcter. He rode a Panhead (Harley-Davidson models from 1948-66). So, from an old Panhead rider and beer drinker (and amateur brewer amongst other things), how would Peter answer this question? And more importantly, how many homebrews would it take? Hmmm... Sonny... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:08:47 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: Fw: can you overdo hop flavour, Phils stolen idea G'day all I am on my experimentation phase of my cycle at the moment. It really pisses off SWMBO. "You make good beer" she will blast, "why the hell do have to keep trying new things out" (funny she never said that about our love life when she was younger and more bearable - but thats another story). Anyway I have been on a bit of a FWHing buzz at the moment. I'm almost burnt out on it. The interesting thing is that one of those myths I thought was it was almost impossible to overly flavour a beer with hops. Impressed with the flavour FWHing can impart, I thought "why not put all my hops in as FWH". So for a Vienna (dont tell me that it should be a-tuned to malt, I know), I decided to throw in 60 grams of Halertauer (for 38 litres) as FWH. rockies ---------- of hop flavour. In fact to some people too much, they couldn't drink it. Others were outright stunned with the flavour. I found it exciting, but when I get a number of people saying WHOA, SHIT, and other not even wanting to drink it, well I have come to the conclusion that YES YOU CAN GO OVERBOARD ON HOP FLAVOUR. (for some that is) As for Phils new found discovery of the portable 10 litre dispensing keg in the back of the car, If he was to visit the regions of North Queensland, he would find these very commonplace. We up here put handles on them and just carry them arround with us. We even have insulated carry cases for them. And we have mini gascylinders to go with them. They are our stubbies up here, convenient for an afternoon out when the tropical heat bites and you feel like a cool one (or a backpacker if she is close enough). Surprised you lot down there have just discovered them. Well not really, our little secrets are bound to escape sooner or later. Shout Graham Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 05:47:12 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: no sparge ... I've been doing side-by-side no-sparge vs sparge-only beers for several months and I have even performed a couple triangle tests (which only asked about taste) and maltiness is a key advantage of no-sparge and there is generally a preference for no-sparge flavor. I do find a couple disturbing patterns tho'. The sparge-only beers usually have better head and often much better! The sparge-onlies clear faster with better final clarity. The sparge beers seem to taste a little thin (same OG) particularly in mid-taste; they finish stronger tho'. The sparge-onlies offer something extra and flavorful on the middle of the tongue by comparison. There may be some differences in hops aroma and bitterness resulting from identical hopping schedules. Perhaps most telling the sparge-only kegs always emptied first - seemed more palatable as a session beer (which isn't to say it would judge better). To me the no-sparges lagers seem to attain clean and smooth characteristics quicker. In other applications I am a bit less enamored of no-sparge and will probably drop back to simple undersparging. All of these beers were brewed with step mash conditions. I think it is would be interesting to repeat with decoction. I think many of the differences attributable to sparge can be related to extraction of caramel and maillard flavor compounds early and phenolic compounds (both good and vile ones) late. Decoction may be a different story. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 06:59:01 -0500 From: fridgeguy at voyager.net Subject: Fridge woes Greetings folks, In HBD #3375, Robert Phelan asks for info about setting temperature controller differential. Commercial refrigeration systems use many different types of temperature controllers, some use pressure control, and others use a combination of the two. I have seen both temperature controllers and pressure controllers that adjust with the two-screw method. Both controllers use a spring- loaded metal bellows to operate a switch. A pressure controller's bellows is connected directly to the refrigeration system and operates the switch based on the system pressure. Temperature controllers work in exactly the same way but have the bellows, cap tube and a sensor bulb filled with liquid/gas mixture sealed inside. The mixture expands and contracts with changes in temperature, operating the switch. Two-screw controllers are adjusted by first setting the "cut-in" or differntial to minimum (counterclockwise). Set the "cut-out" screw to shut the compressor off at the desired temperature. Allow the cabinet temperature to rise to the desired cut-in point and turn the cut-in screw clockwise until the compressor starts. Be aware the two adjustments will interact so it will be necessary to repeat the settting procedure until both values are correct. Temperature controllers of this type usually have a minimum differential of about 2 degF (at the probe). Pressure controllers between 1-3 PSIG. Look carefully at the control system on this fridge and review the schematic, if there is one. It is common for this type of unit to use a temperature controller to operate a refrigerant liquid line solenoid valve. The compressor will actually be started and stopped via a pressure controller connected to the low-pressure side of the system. This method allows frequent compressor cycling without damage to the system. Both controllers must be set correctly in such systems. Hope this helps! - ---------------------------------------- Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo fridgeguy at voyager.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:01:33 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: garden variety oxalic acid John Palmer wrote some good advice about cleaning up stainless: > Use an oxalic acid-based stainless steel cleanser > and a non-metallic scrubby pad If you've got any rhubarb growing in you're garden you can chuck some in and boil it in there for free... plenty of oxalic there and the stuff gets real shiny. It could be a good idea to take the rhubarb out afterwards, before your next brew. Dr. Pivo P.S. In concurrence with current safety practices, and to assure no ensuing law suits from across the waves, I must add: Do NOT press the boiling hot rhubarb into your eyes, and even though mature stalks can be quite stringy so you may be tempted to macrame' some decorations with it, do NOT tie it around the necks of babies in very tight knots. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:31:39 -0400 From: John Penn <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu> Subject: honey Michael asks about honey to carbonate a 6 gallon batch of beer... Made the mistake of using a full cup of honey to carbonate a 5 gallon batch once per Papazian's recommendation. That's about twice what you need. I use on the order of 1/2 cup for a 5 gallon batch, little more if you like well carbonated ales, a little less for darker beers or moderate carbonation. So for 6 gallons of an average gravity ale, I'd probably suggest about 5/8 cup of honey and experiment up and down to see what kind of carbonation you like best. Of course it's always best to make sure your beer has stopped fermenting (couple weeks typically) because it only takes 2-3 pts to carbonate that beer! Hope that helps. John Penn Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:54:22 +1000 From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Re: Hitch Hikers And Homebrewing Phil enticingly wrote ... > And if by chance, when I peel back the tarp, > A couple of good looking hitch hikers have jumped a ride. > Well I'll share the moment with Dave. > In Oz we're like that. I was going to save the following quote as a witty sig line, but Phil's post provides the perfect moment for its debut. Now I am not going to start the 'prohibited imports' thread again, but we down under have a suffered an outbreak of a particularly nasty import - the game show called "Who wants to be a millionaire". I find it really poor viewing, but there was one moment where the following was heard... GAME SHOW HOST TO CONTESTANT: "What would you do if you won the million dollars ?" CONTESTANT (male): "Well ......., I guess I would spend the first $900,000 on women and beer, and then basically just waste the rest" So Phil, if I ever win a million, I now know who to share it with.... Cheers, David Lamotte Brewing in the Burradoo tropics Newcastle, N.S.W Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:42:58 -0700 From: "Bill Riel" <briel at uniserve.com> Subject: Porkert grain mill On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 00:27:21 -0400, Dick Roark wrote : >Does anyone know anything about the Porket grain mill? I understand >that it's made in Italy and is priced similarly to a Corona. I have >looked around for some information on this, but so far no luck. I'm pretty sure you're referring to the Porkert mill which is made in the Czech Republic. I have one, and it's a plate mill just like the Corona. In fact, locally (that would be in Victoria, British Columbia), the Corona can't be found, but homebrew shops stock the Porkert. I should add that I've never actually seen a real, live Corona, but from the pictures I would guess that the Porkert mill is virtually identical. - -- Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:21:49 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: alkaline-shmalkaline Dave B writes ... >What is the actual experience with pH in water treating when lime is added >to a bicarbonate solution? The city says my water is around 74-88ppm alkalinity and pH 7.3-7.4, 114ppm total hardness. For soft water I precipitate carbonate by adding 0.16gm/gal lime. After 16-24 hours, the resulting water reads very low alkalinity [by test strip (low res)] and a pH of about 8.5 to 8.7. The buffering is much lower - only abt 1/4 the acid required to hit mash/lauter water pH as compared to tap water. Determining the precise amount of lime needed seems to involve some guesswork beyond the obvious calculation. As I recall mine calculated as 0.12gm/gal, but it wasn't enough. To use lime you need a very accurate scale and some test trials and patience. Food grade lime is available at canning supply places for prewashing pickles. Water test strips available at aquarium shops. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:42:01 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: Content Definitions There is just so much to read! As the contents of the HBD continue to bulge there way right off of Pat's server, and there is far too much to read through, I am going to propose some sort of content definitions. For us slow readers, this might better help us choose whether the missive has any interest for us or not. I am simply proposing that, in addition to the title, each submitter appends a "category definition", so that the prospective reader might know whether it may be of interest or not. I would propose the following.... Category 1: "experiental" These are all the "I've been doing (or seeing) such and such for a long time, and it seems to give pleasant results". There is a large number (though probably not enough) being submitted here. They often can be recognized by some sort of "Rennerian coordinate" identification. Category 2: "inferential" This is the type of posting where one extracts a bit of information from industrial brewing sources, blends in a bit of college chemistry, and tries to wallpaper it all over the quite different experience of making good, fresh, living, beer. This already takes up quite a proportion of the HBD in space, but if you really look at it, it is really quite a small proportion of posters. I suppose this habit is as untamed as a malignant tumor and as addictive as heroin. Category 3: "experimental" Here we group all the attempts to actually try and control some parameter, and present what seems to be going on. It could be measuring stuff, or blind tasting, but at least making SOME attempt to be objective... you know.... the "AJ and his test tubes" stuff. Category 4: "serendipidous" The observant one, will always be bumping into some funny sort of anomalies, and some times they can be worth chasing up. Sometimes the mere mentioning of them, will wake others to respond who have notice the same thing. Category 5: "silly" You know these ones. Like when Jill pulls out her cat-o-nines and forces Phil to sit at the keyboard, and coarsly whispers in his ear "OK sucker. Make me laugh". Now wouldn't the appendage of this simple classification system make our screen browsing much simpler? Myself? Lately I've kind of opted for the fives. I used to post a bit of category ones and threes.... but it always seemed to get buried in "number two". Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:42:09 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: solvent (category 4) A true category 1 or 3 posting requires having pretty consistant control over what's going on, and I sure don't have that now. I am sort of "between brew houses" now, and don't have control over anything. You know, the sort of "Keeee-rist. I can't move that until I get rid of this... better throw it so it gets out of the way...CRASH!... never was much of a good throw with my left hand. Now if I can just nudge that car battery a little farther with my foot, then I'd have a place to set this down." In other words, very much like the first brew session. In the midst of this mayhem, I produces a beer, that already after the first fermentation, carried a taste and smell that was very reminiscent of, well... acetone. I had never really ever met anything like it, so I asked another brewer over to see what he thought. There is nothing the lads like better than hazing each other, so it wasn't long before I was hearing "I here you've stopped working on diacetyl, and started working on diacetone" in public places. The taste was so bizarre my first thought was some sort of contamination, but I re-pitched the yeast and there was not a trace of it. I do think I have figured out the source, but rather than speculate on that, it may be of more interest to tell what happened to it. I took one portion and did a classic "krauzen lagering". For the non-initiated, one takes a finished cleared beer (the diacetone), and mix it with about 10 percent of a beer that is rocking on at the peak of its primary. The classic lagering is then, about two weeks at a somewhat reduced temperature (the carbonating phase) and then as long as one is patient at a quite reduced temperature (the actual lagering). It actually turned out quite nice! Knowing that that taste was there, one could find it in the finished product, but it was very subtle, and one might almost say it contributed to "sweetness". As a side note, I kegged two kegs of the stuff, artificially carbonated them, and let them run through the same temperature steps (without the krauzen addition), and they remained absolutely repugnant. And the point of all this you may ask? I have long thought that krauzen lagering presents some unique characters in beer, and primarily maintains them in a virginal cellar state for an incredibly long time. I've always attributed this to the incredible reductive power of the yeast at that stage in their life. I've even tried this on patently stale beer to see if it would reduce oxidised flavours (it doesn't). While it may fail that, it does at least seem to be capable of taking care of some kinds of problems, and that may make it a handy tool to have in your back pocket. Unless of course you want 140 litres of nail polish remover. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:10:13 -0500 From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: Uh-oh, they're on to me! Glen Pannicke countered my rant with: > Brian, I'm no "alco-nazi" and this is not intended as a flame > either. But I > cannot agree with your viewpoint for one reason: Fines, > surcharges and jail > terms DON'T BRING BACK THE DEAD. Glen, I respect where you are coming from on this, and I'm sorry that you have to see this as part of your volunteer work. I could probably write a Digest's worth on this argument alone, but I'm afraid it would just paint me as a very cold, cynical person, and I don't feel like doing that. I just wanted to clarify that I don't regard people such as yourself as alco-nazis. That is a term that I reserve for zero-tolerance, absolutely-no-alcohol-in-the-bloodstream zealots. There obviously is a need for some control, and I don't have a problem with a BAC limit of less than .10. My fear is that the zealots are slowly taking control of this issue and we will soon find ourselves faced with excessively punitive and restrictive laws that will have severe social and economic impacts. Now, I'm beginning to think I've said too much on this as it is. Coming to work this morning on my regular route, I notice a police car sitting in the curb line. As soon as I go by, he takes off and starts hanging off my bumper for several blocks. Now maybe it's just because I drive a customized TJ with loud music blaring from the sound bar, maybe it's not. I guess it's a good thing I'm not paranoid. I mean, it's silly to think that Internet activity is being monitored by law enforcement personnel, isn't it? ;-) Cheers Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:29:05 -0500 From: "Poirier, Bob" <Bob_Poirier at adc.com> Subject: re: Question about a keg Greetings. On Wednesday, July 12, 2000, Bill Wilbe asks about a keg his Dad gave him. It sure sounds like a Hoff-Stevens style keg. I've got one also. You will definitely need a new bung if yer gonna pry out the old one in order to clean the keg - Sabco (http://www.kegs.com, no affiliation, yada, yaya...) sells new poplar bungs ($25 for a box of 100) in two sizes. I scored a used two-probe tap for under $10 - KegMan (http://www.ceisites.com/kegman/, again, NAYY...) will sell ya a new one fer around $20. Hope this helps... Bob Poirier East Haven, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:41:32 -0400 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Correction >One millimole >of acid with one millimole of base in a liter of water gives the same pH >as one mole of acid and one millimole of base (ionic strength >cosiderations aside). in yesterday's post should read" "...the same pH as one mole of acid and one mole of base (ionic strength cosiderations aside)." Thanks to Steve Alexander for pointing this out and apologies to everyone else. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:38:30 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: What !!??!! Stupid alcohol laws. Wil Kolb, happydog at nations.net writes ... >Ask a young beer drinker living in STL (21 y/o drinking age in Mo. and >19 y/o across the river for men and 18 y/o for women) A week+ ago I was concerned that Ohio lead the US in stupid alcohol laws. Now you tell me that in Illinois [US public school attendees take note - Ohio is not across the river from Missouri] the legal drinking age depends on genitalia ? Didn't Illinois ratify the ERA ? Are those guys in Peoria just a bunch of lech's hoping to pick-up drunken 18yo girls ? What force replaces irrationality with rationality in governance ? -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:29:53 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: thermo answer to L. Bonham Louis posed the following question a few weeks ago around July 7 - The question: Assume that the inner vessel is filled with 50 liters of water at 40C, and covered with an insulated lid. Assume that there are 20 liters of fluid (water, glycol, or oil) in the shell that can be maintained at a constant temperature by recirculating from a larger, heated reservior. Approximately how hot would the heating fluid have to be to be raise the temp of the 50 liters of water in the inner chamber to 70C in under 30 minutes? All the best -- Louis K. Bonham Houston, Texas Answer is slightly above the 70degC temperature that you want to hit. I think I got about 1deg F higher in fact. This is for when the heating fluid is oil for which I had heat transfer data for. When heating fluid is water, it is slightly less efficient and would need a bit higher temperature. Heat losses will contribute a bit too and this is tough to estimate quickly atleast. It also assumes uniform temperature within the vessel which is only posible with adequate mixing (not easy to model stagant, natural heat transfer) I would go with a few degrees above the 70degC and then you should be all set. Equation used is a solution to the differential heat transfer equation and is on page 11-118 Perrys Chemical Engineers Handbook, seventh edition. Hope this helps. Pete Czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:12:25 -0400 From: John Baxter Biggins <jbbiggin at med.cornell.edu> Subject: Where to get empty "nip" bottles Good friend of mine is getting married & am brewing a high gravity mead for the occasion. I plan to put if in small nip bottles & make special labels. I was wondering does anyone know a good source, commercial or otherwise, for these bottles? Silk-screened Rolling Rock & Rogue emptries won't do. So far, I'm tempted to use empty 1-serving Perrier bottles after removing labels, but can't find any now. Private email welcome. -john - ------------------- John B. Biggins Cornell University Medical College Weill Graduate School of Medical Sciences Student -- Program in Pharmacology Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Laboratory for Biosynthetic Chemistry Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Therapeutics lab:(212)693-6405 fax:(212)717-3135 http://www.ski.edu/lab_homepage.cfm?lab=189 "Science, like Nature, must also be tamed With a view towards its preservation. Given the same state of integrity It will surely serve us well." -- Neil Peart; Natural Science (III) -- Permanent Waves Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:40:27 PDT From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com> Subject: My First Batch of Homebrew I did my first batch (of many more to come) of homebrew. It was West Coast Pale Ale, from a beer kit (U.S. Version). I bottled on Monday. I had a partial bottle, and instead of bottling it I decided to do a premature taste test. I have been tasting everything I put in my beer, because I want to know what everything tastes like throughout the entire process. The beer smelled like beer out of the airlock, but when I tasted it (in my non-carbonated half bottle) I noticed two things. 1.) It did not taste like the wort I made. I expected this result. But was expecting a little resemblence. 2.) My beer tasted like a $2.99 plastic Vons brand charcoaled filtered vodka (yes, we used to drink this in college). I assume that something went wrong. To test this I let a bit stay out in the open to "get contaminated" so I could compare the results. It wasn't my version of contaminated. I guess I should wait the two weeks of bottling before I get worried, but does anyone have any suggestions, or is this how WestCoast Pale Ale is supposed to taste? Thank you -Leland ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:41:13 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: phenolic flavors >>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> writes: >> Does a high(er) percentage of wheat malt contribute to phenolic >> flavoring in a beer? Jeff> No. Not strictly true. Wheat contains ferulic acid (or a precursor thereof), which is itself a precursor to 4-vinyl-guaiacol (as explicated by S. Alexander earlier this month). So, if you have a yeast that is prone to producing 4VG, you will get more phenolic "clove" character from a beer with wheat in it than from a beer with no wheat. An Anecdote: I recently visited a local brewpub (left nameless to protect the, um ...., innocent?) The brewer was there. After greeting him ("Hi Greg"), I asked my usual "sucking up to the brewer" question: I asked, "What do you recommend?" He said, "We've got a Bavarian stout." I said, "A what?" He said, "We fermented a stout with Bavarian weizen yest." I thought, "Sounds awful." But, you know, it wasn't. In fact, there was very little clove character at all. The yeast might have contributed a subtle smokiness, and the beer was quite drinkable. So there you have it. A beer that was made with no wheat, but with a yeast known to produce clove-phenolic character, didn't have the phenolic character. Disclaimer: the plural of anecdote is NOT data. :-) =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:53:42 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Bavarian helles >>>>> "Epic8383" == Epic8383 <Epic8383 at aol.com> writes: Epic8383> aroma hops go in at or just before shutting down the Epic8383> boil. I wouldn't want to let the wort sit for 15 min. Epic8383> before cooling, especially with a delicately balanced Epic8383> beer like a helles. I can smell the DMS just thinking Epic8383> about it. Standard practice is, in fact, to let the beer sit for 15 minutes or so, after whirlpooling, to let the trub settle. Adding the aroma hops near the end of the settling period would probably work best if you're using a counter-flow (CF) chiller, though, as the wort in the kettle remains near boiling temperature until it is sucked into the chiller. In fact, when using a CF chiller, you almost have to have a rest period before you start chilling, if you want to leave the hot break behind in the kettle. If you're using an immersion chiller, then you'll add the aroma hops a few minutes before you turn on the chiller. And, if you've boiled for a sufficiently long time (I think Dornbusch (sp?) recommends 90 minutes), you really should not have to worry about DMS. =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:29:46 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Breweries in N California Hi Everyone, I've got a colleague who will be honeymooning early this fall in Northern California. He'll be spending a day in San Francisco, a couple of days in Napa a couple in Sonoma and one last in San Fran. He'll be doing some wine tasting on the way, but if there are some good breweries or pubs I could direct him to, I'd appreciate it. TIA. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:44:47 -0700 From: "Eric J Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net> Subject: Entertaining Ray Phil says : I've got the much celebrated Ray Kruse and his lovely wife Linda on their way out here for a visit next month. Ray says he expects to be treated like a queen (which shouldn't be hard ). Well, coming off the tail end of entertaining Ray, a few words from the wise: Ray's protocol when meeting someone new is to assume they are the bartender, and send them off for beer: "Hi Ray! I'm Matt. Nice to.." "Hi! I'll have another IPA. Anybody else want one?" He also blames his pedal instability on unlikely activities such as having spent all day on a barge, supposedly in a lake he can't remember the name of. He drones on and on about semi-retiring to an arid portion of Kentucky where homebrewing is illegal, the procedes to tell you about his "water" distillation set-up. And his goats. Other portions of the evening are less repeatable. As far as being treated like a queen, I offered to take him to a local bar of questionable testosterone content, and he oddly declined. All in all, though, we showed Ray a good time, exchanged a few homebrews, and pushed back the boundries of East Coast- Mid West relations. Hopefully, you can do at least as much to fix the Ozzie-American rift that seems to have developed of late. Eric Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
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