---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  KaBoooom! (Charley Burns)
  Re: Soul Mate (Brunnenbraeu)
  Steve Michalak question ("Hugh Hoover")
  48 hour lag! ("Hugh Hoover")
  Re: What !!??!!  Stupid alcohol laws. (Tom Lombardo)
  Poor David ("Graham Sanders")
  Welding Stainless ("Hill, Steve")
  Category Five "Silly Me" ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  sanitary welds (Mench5)
  acetone (category 4/5) (Aaron Perry)
  Cheers ("Houseman, David L")
  My First Batch (Details) ("Leland Heaton")
  Sweetening a Mead (Joseph Gibbens)
  Sour mash or just a bit sour beer. (jafjmw)
  Home brew recipies in Australia (GraemeParker)
  1) cherries,  2) Widmer Hefe (AKGOURMET)
  What to do with 100 pounds of wheat? (Bill Wible)
  CAML? (Jeff Renner)
  Burners for RIMS, RE: BAC Rant, Brewing Diabetics, and Nutz Downunder (Wimpy48124)


* 2000 AHA NHC pics and stories at http://hbd.org/miy2k
* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...
* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:14:49 -0700
From: Charley Burns <cburns99 at pacbell.net>
Subject: KaBoooom!

Stupid brewer tricks 42.1, 42.2, 42.3; all having to do with explosive force
of some kind or another. I wonder if this description of beer bombing
techniques will get me investigated by BATF... Could make life even more
interesting I guess.

42.1 - One of my first was putting an airlock on a 1.092 gravity Imperial
Stout,watching it foam up through the airlock in an explosive fermentation
and then making the BIG mistake of pulling the airlock out of the carboy.
Spent the next 4 hours cleaning black spots off the walls, ceiling and
everything else within 15 feet of that fermenter. From then on, I always
covered the top of the carboy with a bucket when removing a clogged up
airlock. Its amazing how much pressure can build up in those carboys and how
far the wort/beer will eject itself out of the carboy when pressure is
released.

42.2 - Another brain damaged trick was the night of an Christmas party 2
years ago when I had just finished rinsing a 5 gallon carboy and left it
full of water on the patio. During the party a number of us spent an hour on
the patio toking away on our fine cigars and whining about the 20 degree F
weather. Well the next morning that carboy was shimmering and displaying all
sorts of rainbow colors on the side of the house. Right up until the time I
touched it and it fell into about 6 thousand pieces. Seems that water
expands rather too much for glass to handle at that temperature (20F) and
tends to blow up carboys, although not with as much excitement as the carboy
with plugged up airlock.

42.3 - Don't you just love innovation? Like those neat little basket shelfs
you can buy that have little hooks on them that allow you to double your
storage space instantly. check out home depot, they are great. So when we
moved to our new little condo (I hate this place) and bought a new Weber
barbecue, the wife put one of those little baskets on the side of the
barbecue. While brewing a pilsner this weekend (should be ready for our
housewarming party when we get the hell out of this condo) I used the handle
little basket to toss my butane powered barbecue lighter into. Now the weber
has an automatic lighter, but the brewing burners still need flame, which is
why I have the barbecue lighter. The basket/shelf is a wonderful place to
stick stuff like this (along with gloves, sponges, odds and ends). Well this
evening (6 days later) while I have some chicken barbecuing on the grill,
I'm pouring a glass of single malt scotch when (KKKKAAAAABBBBLLLOOOOOMMMM),
about 10 feet away, I hear and feel this explosion. After slowing my heart
rate back down again somewhere below 200, I creep over to the barbecue and
look all over for what the heck made that noise. I now have a barbecue
lighter in about 15 pieces, minus any sign of the container that held the
butane. I then realized that it was about 12 inches away from the underside
of the barbecue box and I guess it got just a little bit too hot.

So watch where you store those igniters. If they have gas in them, keep 'em
away from the bbq. If I had actually been standing in front of the bbq when
that sucker blew, I might not be typing this note...

Charley, still brewing with all body parts intact, in Fair Oaks, CA.



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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:37:16 EDT
From: Brunnenbraeu at aol.com
Subject: Re: Soul Mate

In einer eMail vom 12.07.00 06:13:26 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit schreibt 
"Grant Stott" <gstott at primus.com.au>:

>  Got me wondering is Kolsch particularly appealing to women?

Well, maybe - my wife also asks regularly, when I'll be starting to brew 
another batch of Koelsch. And if I do, it never lasts long...

Volker

post scriptum: perhaps I should add, that my wife is born in Cologne / 
Koeln... ;-)

Volker R. Quante
Brunnenbraeu Homebrewery

Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland, but definitely a German Homebrewer


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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:41:10 -0700
From: "Hugh Hoover" <hugh.hoover at software.com>
Subject: Steve Michalak question

Mr. Michalak,
What areas of modern brewing research are most applicable
to home brewing?

What are the best lessons from A/B brewing methods that
would usefully scale down to the homebrewer level?
(ok, that you CAN reveal :^)

Thanks!
Hugh Hoover
PetaPint Home Brewery





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Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:00:24 -0700
From: "Hugh Hoover" <hugh.hoover at software.com>
Subject: 48 hour lag!

or, has anyone else had >success< using 
"Yeast Lab Whitbread Yeast" (mfg. G.W. KENT, Inc)?
or: Stupid Brewer Tricks #347

I'm brewing a 'throwback' mild last sunday, and decided
late, so I figured I'd use some dry yeast purchased for
exactly these types of occassion.  I normally use Windsor
by Danstar, but I had 6 packs of the Whitbread, so...

I started the yeast as recommended, 2 sachets in about
200 mls of ~100F water for 14 minutes (couldn't wait
that last minute :) then I added 1Q of 1.040 canned
starter wort, set it on the stir plate and let it go at medium
speed (enough to stir, no major vortex).  I let it sit & stir for
the duration of the brewing (about 5 hours to knockout).
O2 added right after all the  wort (11 gals) is in the (open)
fermentor.

About 4 hours after pitching, I >thought< I saw slight signs
of fermentation... I went to bed.
Next day, no real signs of fermentation... a few bubbles now
and again... ok, don't panic... I let it sit...
That evening, still nothing - ok, panic!  I added another pack
of the Whitbread directly - just sprinkled on the surface.
4 hours later, still nothing, so I really panic and toss in a
partially done starter from a culture - 100 mls with a 
noticeable layer of yeast on the bottom.  Next morning, 
definite signs of fermentation, that evening, nice high kreusen.
48 hours.  I'm really testing my sanitation this time...

Ok, here's the kicker... This is the 3rd time I've tried this
yeast, with similar results...  The first two times, the yeast
came from a completely different supplier (different parts
of the country even!).  I'm beginning to suspect it's not me...

So, back to the first question, is this just bad yeast? or
did I really do something wrong?  I DO store it in the freezer.
(Clayton Cone question: is it good, bad, or indifferent to store
dry yeast in the freezer?)




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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:05:17 -0500
From: toml at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us (Tom Lombardo)
Subject: Re: What !!??!!  Stupid alcohol laws.

>Stephen Alexander
 writes:
>Now you tell me that in Illinois [US public school attendees take note -
>Ohio
>is not across the river from Missouri]  the legal drinking age depends on
>genitalia ?  

The drinking age in Illinois is 21, regardless of gender.  

>Didn't Illinois ratify the ERA ?  Are those guys in Peoria just
>a bunch of lech's hoping to pick-up drunken 18yo girls ?

Ah, a US public school graduate, eh?  Springfield, not Peoria, is the
capital of Illinois.  ;-)
>
>What force replaces irrationality with  rationality in governance ?

Two forces, actually:  Money and power.

Here's an irrationality for you - in Illinois, there is a mandatory
seatbelt law, but no helmet law for motorcycles.  Go figure...

Tom, in Rockford IL



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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:13:17 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Poor David

G'day all

I must correct Poor David Lamotte who wrote

>David Lamotte
>Brewing in the Burradoo tropics
>Newcastle, N.S.W Australia
>
Well dear sir, in the Country of North Queensland, land of great beer
experimenter (note the beer reference), it is a long way from the so called
tropics of Newcastle.  All because you didn't get your passport approved to
visit is no reason to lie to the other HBDers.  I told you before, you have
to send me a carton of your best before we will consider your application to
visit.

And as for you spending your million with Phil, well whatever turns you on
sunshine, but it doesnt help with your passport application.

Shout

Graham Sanders




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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:28:06 -0400
From: "Hill, Steve" <SHill at advanta.com>
Subject: Welding Stainless

Hello one and all:

Just need to know if there is a fellow homebrewer in the Philadelphia PA
area that welds stainless for a living?

Private emails welcome.
Steve


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:59:00 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Category Five "Silly Me"

Actually, I thought the mere fact that any post coming from me automatically
went into everybody's "silly" bin, abrogated any requirement for me to
nominate categories.

But I take the Doc's point.

I'm just relieved he didn't put me in Category Two.
Now I wonder who fits in there?
Can we have some scientific appraisal on this?

But before I lose the thread of my "silly" post, I want to respond to Mr
Fouch (world peace brewer) on the matter of international homebrewing rifts.
I must have missed something Eric.
I recall hearing from some Adelaidians who were obsessed with weeing on each
other's suburbs.
I recall Graham Sanders making light of feeding tourists to the crocodiles.
I recall writing a sincere and (might I say) most flattering description of
your physical self.

But no where have I noticed any rift between Oz and Yankee brewers.

Swedish and Yankee brewers, well in this area I have detected a degree of
animosity.

But not from us fun loving Aussies.
We just like to make fun of everyone. Especially ourselves.

And to show my sincerity,
I insist Eric that you make the trip out here with Ray.

If Ray is going to baulk at dressing up in suspenders and fish net
stockings, well I am going to need a capable bloke like yourself to help
out.

I told the lads at the Burradoo Hilton a couple of good sorts were coming
out from America to show them (amongst other things) how to brew good beer.
The lads at the BH haven't seen a woman in years.
Real or otherwise!!

Don't let me down.

Phil







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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:35:58 EDT
From: Mench5 at aol.com
Subject: sanitary welds

 Wort Bros
How do I explain sanitary welds to my welder? When questioned about it he 
pointed to one of his welds and asked how it was. I didn't know. Is it 
porosity and seams that we are trying to stay away from? How can I get an 
other wise good welder to understand sanitary welds?

I have access to a welder(my quaisi brewing partner) that worked at nasa and 
had his welds xrayed. But he has no rig.

Also, in my searching I have found, what seems to be a stellar stainless 
connection. He has ss 1/2" ball valves for $12,  1/2" ss tubing for $2.40 per 
foot, and 1/2"x4" ss nipples for $1.50. He is also sending me an Ashcroft 
catalog to choose which thermometer is right for me. Any advice? As well, 
they can get triclovers,woohoo.
Greg Hempell  at  1-800-410-4625   no afilliation yadayada

Cheers
Tom Moench
mench5 at aol.com


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:47:06 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: acetone (category 4/5)

Dr. Pivo writes about acetone in his brew, and the removal of it by 
"krausen lagering".  Pretty slick.

While I've never had acetone smell/taste in my brew, I often notice it present
in the "hooch" (nasty gray liquid) that sits atop my sourdough starters. Some
cultures produce it at levels that would make it smell stronger than actual
nail polish remover. 

 My next move, being a sourdough experimenter, would be to mix up a little
flour and water and set it in the Dr.'s brew room. Then I'd have him kick some
car batteries and move some boxes, hopefully I'd capture some tasty sourdough
friends. 

Also Doc, are you going to try your method on the other two kegs? I wonder if
it would work on them as well? Of course you could bottle it and sell it as
"Craft Brewed Nail Polish Remover" in the vicinity of "The Hilton". There's
Ladies aplenty, and with an endorsement from Phil the stuff would fly!

AP


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:13:11 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Cheers

Did you ever wish you could remember Norm's greetings when he entered the
bar on "Cheers"?

Well, here are just a few...

> > SAM:  "What's shaking Norm?"
> > NORM: "All four cheeks & a couple of chins."
> >
> > SAM:  "What's new Normie?"
> > NORM: "Terrorists, Sam.  They've taken over my stomach & they're
demanding
> >             beer."
> >
> > SAM:  "What'd you like Normie?"
> > NORM: "A reason to live.  Give me another beer."
> >
> > SAM:  "What'll you have Normie?"
> > NORM: "Well, I'm in a gambling mood Sammy. I'll take a glass of whatever
> >             comes out of that tap."
> > SAM:  "Looks like beer, Norm."
> > NORM: "Call me Mister Lucky."
> >
> > SAM:  "Hey Norm, how's the world been treating you?"
> > NORM: "Like a baby treats a diaper."
> >
> > WOODY: "What's the story Mr. Peterson?"
> > NORM: "The Bobbsey twins go to the brewery.  Let's cut to the happy
> ending."
> >
> > WOODY: "Hey Mr. Peterson, there's a cold one waiting for you."
> > NORM: "I know, if she calls, I'm not here."
> >
> > SAM:  "Beer, Norm?"
> > NORM: "Have I gotten that predictable?  Good."
> >
> > SAM:  "Whatcha up to Norm?"
> > NORM: "My ideal weight if I were eleven feet tall."
> >
> > WOODY: "How's it going Mr. Peterson?"
> > NORM: "Poor."
> > WOODY: "I'm sorry to hear that."
> > NORM: "No, I mean pour."
> >
> > SAM:  "How's life treating you Norm?"
> > NORM: "Like it caught me sleeping with its wife."
> >
> > SAM:  "What's going down, Normie?"
> > NORM: "My butt cheeks on that bar stool."
> >
> > WOODY: "Pour you a beer, Mr. Peterson?"
> > NORM: "Alright, but stop me at one.....make that one-thirty."
> >
> > WOODY: "How's it going Mr. Peterson?"
> > NORM: "It's a dog eat dog world, Woody & I'm wearing Milk Bone
underwear."
> >
> > SAM:  "What's the story Norm?"
> > NORM: "Boy meets beer.  Boy drinks beer.  Boy meets another beer."
> >
> > WOODY: "What's going on Mr. Peterson?"
> > NORM: "The question is, 'what's going IN Mr. Peterson?' A beer, please."
> >
> > WOODY: "Can I pour you a beer Mr. Peterson?"
> > NORM: "A little early isn't it, Woody?"
> > WOODY: "For a beer?"
> > NORM: "No, for stupid questions."


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 07:38:04 PDT
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com>
Subject: My First Batch (Details)

It was brought to my attention that I forgot to say how I made my homebrew 
(to see what I screwed up on).  I didn't even think about giving the details 
of how I made my homebrew because I didn't think...well I see the error in 
my ways.  I didn't think.

The kit was 8lbs of "Blended Malt Extract" (WestCoast Pale Ale), 2 oz. of 
Cascade hops, (1.5 oz. for bittering and .5 for finishing), and "dry ale 
yeast".

I added the extract and boiled the hops for 45 mins, and added the finishing 
hops during in the last minute.  I was worried about contamination of my 
wort, so I did everything a little fast.  I don't think my yeast was proofed 
well enough, but the fermentation went good.  I fermented in a 6 1/2 gallon 
carboy for 7 1/2 days.  The yeast didn't start to go until about 24 hours 
after it was proofed.  The only thing I know I did wrong was, I fermented at 
too high of a temp.  I couldn't keep my apt cool enough, so I started the 
fermentation at 74, but was able to keep it down to about 72 after the first 
day.  And last day got it down to 70.  (With no air conditioner, I played 
the pay attention to the windows at night game).  But next time I am going 
to be more prepared.  Other than that, my first batch went according to my 
instructions, which is a combination of www.homebrewmart.com brewing 
instructions, and homebrewing for dummies (a really well written book, I was 
skeptical).

I appreciate all the help and responses I have been getting.

 -Leland
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:55:25 -0500
From: Joseph Gibbens <jgibbens at umr.edu>
Subject: Sweetening a Mead

Hello, 

I want to add some wine sweetener to a finished mead and need to know 
what my sanitation process should be.  If I were to boil the sweetener ( 
I assume its lactose) in water, would the complex sugar break down into 
simple fermentable sugars?  If so, what is the risk if I add some camden 
tablets to the solution and add it while still cold?

Joe Gibbens


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:32:46 +0100
From: jafjmw at wlsfn.force9.co.uk
Subject: Sour mash or just a bit sour beer.

A few years ago I tried a "lactic experiment". I made 2 gallons of a
simple, light-coloured, medium-strength beer. Before it finished
fermenting, I racked it into 2 gallon jugs and added about 1
tablespoon of live yoghurt to "jug B". A & B finished fermenting
apparently about the same and I bottled them. They tasted almost the
same soon after bottling but gradually the bottles of B developed a
pleasant sourness (a bit like Belgian sour beers). There were no ill
effects such as excessive carbonation or heavy sediment.
- -- Adam (Sheffield, England)




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Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:10:30 +1000
From: GraemeParker <GParker at stvincents.com.au>
Subject: Home brew recipies in Australia

Sue,

There is a homebrew club in Bathurst. Check with the Health Food Shop -
they also sell homebrew ingredients. 

Do you want to brew kits or all grain? 

I live in Mt Victoria ( not far from Bathurst in Australian terms.)

If you want more info send me a private email.


Regards
Graeme Parker
67 Kanimbla Valley Rd
Mt Victoria NSW 2786
mobile 0414855818
home 47871746
work 93612695
gparker at stvincents.com.au


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:53:55 EDT
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: 1) cherries,  2) Widmer Hefe

Two questions:
1) is it preferable to pit cherries before adding them to the fermenter?

2) I want to make a Widmer Hefeweizen clone.  Their website has some good 
information as far as starting gravity, IBU's, alcohol and ingredients.  The 
malts are listed as Pale, Wheat, Munich, and 40L Caramel.  Does anyone know 
the percentage of each?  Same with the hops.  They list Tettnanger as both 
bittering and aroma, and Cascade as aroma.  Anyone know amounts and time?  

Thanks.

Bill Wright
Juneau, Alaska
www.gourmetalaska.com


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:22:58 -0400
From: Bill Wible <bwible at pond.com>
Subject: What to do with 100 pounds of wheat?

I have acquired 2 bundles of unmalted  wheat, 50 pounds in each.  One 
is "golden", the other "red".
This is from a farm in upstate PA.  I don't actually have it yet, I 
will pick it up tomorrow.

1) What is the difference between the red and the gold?  I remember 
reading something about red wheat being 'winter wheat', or something 
like that.

2) Could this be used in beer?  I hope so, because that's what I 
bought it for.  Maybe a hefeweizen with the golden, a saison with the 
red, a dunkelweizen with a combination?   I have some Belgian 
Ardennes yeast on hand.  My local shop has Weihenstephen.  I hear 
that Weihenstephen  yeast is supposed to be tolerant of high 
temperatures, and it is a great time to make this beer.

Anybody have any experience using unmalted wheat, directly from a 
farm?  I know that wheat can be tough to mash, it sticks, etc.  I 
have heard that it is wise to use rice hulls in the mash with it.

Any good recipes for an all grain wheat beer?

Thanks for any advice.

Bill


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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:22:10 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: CAML?

Brewers

One of the wonderful things about being the CAP guru is that people send me
samples of their brews for tasting.  Unfortunately, some of these samples
get separated from the identification in my fridge.  A CAML (Classic
American Malt Liquor, presumably) has been in my fridge for several months
and I'd like to know whose it is and something about it before I drink it.
Can anyone claim it?

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:04:06 EDT
From: Wimpy48124 at aol.com
Subject: Burners for RIMS, RE: BAC Rant, Brewing Diabetics, and Nutz Downunder

Subject: Burners for RIMS,
           RE: BAC Rant
           Brewing Diabetics, and
           Nutz to live and brew DOWNUNDER

    First  thing is I'd like to know is if anyone knows of a good place to 
order burners from? They are available from Beer, Beer, and more BEER, But I 
like to shop around a bit. My RIMS platform is built [UNISTRUT, the fittings 
I salvaged at work {salvaged, NOT swiped!!!}, the Unistrut bar stock I 
bought. A VERY dear item to buy... I called in my order, cut to my 
dimensions. Went round to pick it up and about messed my pants when they rang 
my credit card for $180.00!!! The beatings the Baron recieves are NOTHING to 
compare with the one my wife's going to give me when she finds I lifted her 
card again!!!

    Speaking of the Baron [and all our other fellow brewers Downunder]
I've given up on my dreams of visiting your beautiful country. The reason 
I've changed my mind is that after watching "The Crocodile Hunter" last night 
I've figured out that I'm not tuff enough to visit!!!! You'd have to be nutz 
to brew in a country where there's SPIDERS [nasty poisonous ones, Redbacks 
and the like] lurking about everywhere trying to ruin your day. According to 
the Croc Hunter, they're everywhere, waiting to ruin your day! I can handle 
infections, stuck mashes, ect. ect... But I'm a little too wimpy to deal with 
poisonous SPIDERS hanging about all over the place. When they said that you 
have to make sure that even when you go to the 'loo in the middle of the 
night, you need to make sure to turn the light on or you'll get a good wake 
up call! Stumbling around in the middle of the night I know I wouldn't run 
into any "Saltys" or snakes but I ain't gonna deal with any spiders waiting 
to take a bite outa my arse!!! 

    Re: BAC rant
    Just last week on a vacation day at about 3  in the afternoon I had just 
got out of my Ford Ranger, and as I was sitting down in the living room to 
read the paper I heard a loud crash, looked up and saw my truck going past 
the window!! A drunk driver tore up the whole side of my truck, bumper to 
bumper, them tried to get away, consequently hitting a van down the way. 
After a bit, the driver decided to leg out before the cops came! She was 
pretty smashed though {.267%] and decided for some reason that her best 
defense was first to run away. After getting about a 1/2 mile away, she 
decided to call the police and claim a kidnap, rape, and robbery attempt 
[presumably she meant me and the 20 or 25 neighbors that were out in the 
street waiting for the police]! So hey! drink in MODERATION and DON'Tdrink 
and drive!!!

    Last: Being a diabetic HB'er

    Hey, it really sucked being told I had to watch my Carbohydrate intake 
the rest of my life but there's a lot worse thinks that can happen to you! I 
drink at most, pushing it, 2 beers in a day, never without eating or 
excersizing. I was just wondering how many others there are like me who still 
brew?  It's like the kiss of death when the doc say's... to stop drinking, 
diet pop, no sweet stuff, few potatoes, rice and bread!! I'm a lucky one 
though, I did what I was supposed to do,  my sugar levels were normal for 
over a year so the doc cleared me to drink in careful moderation, 4 or 5 
beers total in a week, cutting back on other carbs when I do drink. I started 
brewing in 1985, through 1997, then got out when the doc said no more 
drinking. I started brewing like most others did, to create and drink GOOD 
beer. I've been drinking again the last two years. I decided that, although 
there are good beers on the shelf around here I truly LOVED to create my own 
beers. So I'm getting back in and building a RIMS.  It's a great hobby and 
this digest is a great forum!!!

    Karl

    Waiting in Dearborn, Michigan for the completion of my
    "THUNDER MUG BREWERY"
                       [RIMS]


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