---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Jethro & the Hop God ("Chuck Bernard")
  Bottle Grenades ("Richard Scotty")
  Beat this! ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  Yeast vs. My Lower GI? ("Spence")
  rye stats and carmelization question ("patrick finerty jr.")
  The Brewers' Handbook ("KVP Publishers")
  White Labs article (Marc Morency)
  But no one answered the question. (Rod Prather)
  Re: removing labels (KMacneal)
  Back up the Beer Wagon! ("Eric J Fouch")
  re: no sparge thoughts; R value ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Bottles, Label Removal ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Keg/bottle Carbonation ("Jay Hummer")
  Helmut? Has anyone seen my Helmut? (Some Guy)
  My Last Word on Winnipeg ("Darryl Newbury")
  "village idiot" of the HBD (Jeff Renner)
  Aluminum Wars! was RE: Some Questions (Jeff Renner)
  Re: "village idiot" of the HBD (Some Guy)
  A419 Johnson controls (happydog)
  RE: Organizing a homebrew club ("Gary Glass")
  Re: Aluminum Wars! was RE: Some Questions ("Alex Weeks")
  Aluminum and you... ("Alex Weeks")
  Re: Some Questions (Project One)
  Helmets & mead recipe ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Chilling and bottle labels ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: Aluminum Wars! was RE: Some Questions (Jeff Renner)


* JULY IS AMERICAN BEER MONTH! Take the American Beer
* Pledge of Allegiance! Support your local brewery...
* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:35:59 -0500
From: "Chuck Bernard" <bernardch at mindspring.com>
Subject: Jethro & the Hop God

Jethro writes in #3381 about the Hop God and his "424"

> Interesting to note a beer that was given to me for tasting  at  the
last
> Ames' Brewers' League meeting by Tom Vista, the "Hop God" of
Nashville.
>      Named "424," this brew allegedly had 424 IBU's within....a
textbook
> impossibility...but, having had it myself....I begin to doubt the
> texts....
>      Destined to be a cult favourite, certainly a brew 99.9% of the
planet
> will hate, I loved it!

Actually, the birth of "424" was issued as a challenge to the Hop God
by me.  Last December in the digest we had a short lived thread about
Sister Star IPA.  One poster (Jay Spies, HBD #3186) told the story of
not paying attention and accidently using 17 ounces in a 10 gallon
batch of 1.066 IPA.  Jay then related a tale of Alan Meeker and Mike
Maceyka using 22ounces in a 5 gallon batch.  Seeing these were in the
"junior-varsity" division in the eyes of the Hop God, I challenged him
to produce a super-triple digit, drinkable beer using more hops than
above.  The Hop God accepted the challenge and "424" was born.

> And while the actual recipe is not in my hands, I can state that I
> was told by Tom not only did he FWH, (with Centennial and
Columbus?), he also
> had hops in the mash, hops in the sparge water, hops in the starter,
hops
> in the primary, hops in the secondary, and of course...dry
hops...but even
> hops in the priming sugar!! Man, can you see that this is one fella
with a
> singular dedication?

I think it was "C" hops throughout, with Tom using a total of 32
ounces for a 3-gallon batch!  About the only place hops weren't used
were in the airlock water and in the sanitizer solution; Damn, I bet
I've just given Tom inspiration to begin working on "524."

>      In Tom's defense, I can tell you, as I know some will bemoan
his
> exercise.....that I found this to be a grand beer....and while one
can't
> say it had all the malt to back it up, it was a delight to
me.....then again,
> just how does one get 300 pounds of malt into a 5 gallon recipe?
hehe....

If anyone will try to find a way, Tom will try to do it.  Impossible
is not in his vocabulary.  I guess when you're a god, anything is
possible.

We've tasted "424" at various Music City Brewers club meetings since
it's been bottled.  It has aged wonderfully.  As good as it was when
given to Jethro at the NHC, I suspect it's still several months away
from it's peak.

I'm just worried what will happen if the Hop God and the Hop Devil
ever meet up face to face.  Will it be one of those matter/anti-matter
reactions and destroy civilization as we know it?

> Now, the next brew promised for club consumption is another
> winner...by Chuck Bernard of Nashville. While the local brewers
haven't had a chance
> to taste it....(I devoured it all by myself!) I am told some will be
sent my
> way for the club....(hint, hint!)

Jethro, I've misplaced your snail-mail address since you were in
Nashville for the Music City Brew-Off last year.  Email me said
address and bottles will arrive shortly!  Actually you still owe me a
picture from the "flash" event at Big River Brewpub from last year's
MCBO pub crawl.  How about a trade?


Disciple of the Hop God
Chuck Bernard             bernardch at mindspring.com
Music City Brewers, Nashville TN            www.musiccitybrewers.com








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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:47:13 PDT
From: "Richard Scotty" <rscotty2 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Bottle Grenades

Tidmarsh Major writes about his Primetab experience:

"As I was dropping tablets in the third bottle, I noticed foam coming out of 
the first bottle."

What he's experiencing is saturated CO2 coming out of solution when a
nucleation point is provided.  What I hope he hasn't underestimated is the 
volume of CO2 in solution.

Depending on the number of Primetabs he's used, he may have manufactured a 
12 pack of bottle grenades.  I'd keep a very close eye on these - I've only 
had one bottle go off in 10+ years of brewing (wouldn't you know it was a 
stout).  The spousal unit was not pleased and I was literally cleaning stout 
off the ceiling (as well as the rest of the kitchen).  An entire clip of 
beer bullets was lost - it was ugly.

Its truly amazing how much pressure can build in a bottle.

Richard Scotty
Stout Removal Specialist
The Crapshoot Brewery
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 00:26:27 +0930
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: Beat this!

Seeing that Bill Frazier is interested in where we Aussies live, I'll have 
to give an update as to my latest temporary abode. I'm now even further 
east than Hahndorf and Shady Grove, at BRUkunga. Try and top that for the 
name of a town where a brewer lives!!!




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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:49:42 -0400
From: "Spence" <drwlg at coollink.net>
Subject: Yeast vs. My Lower GI?

I really enjoy the bantering back and forth across the pond, but I have a
delicate, yet no less serious inquiry to make.  I am wondering if others in
our fraternity have experienced "gastrointestinal distress" from drinking
their homemade beers and wines?  I think that I have conducted some
reasonable tests and hypothesize that maybe my little yeasties are setting
up camp in my gut and waging war with the natural critters that normally
occupy the territory.  It appears that the yeasties are the better fighters,
and tend to win the battle.  Of course, I am the one who ends up paying
reparations for the price of the war.  I am sure there are some of our
bretheren out there versed in such delicate discourse.  I am not merely
speaking about the "Winds of War"... but as in "opening the floodgates".
Wonder if there is any scientific reason that supports my theory?  Suppose I
could use PeptoBismol as an adjunct... maybe Kayopectate... might add a
lovely pinkish patina to the must... but figure it will still be dark in the

Spence


If you're not bleedin'... you're not having fun!



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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:17:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: rye stats and carmelization question

hi,

does anyone know how many pts/gal i can expect from flaked rye? this
Sat i'm brewing a rye ale and i'd like to adjust my grain bill
accordingly to reach the desired gravity.

also, i'm going to try something a little different and carmelize
1 - 0.5 gal of the clarified sweet liquor prior to the full boil.

i've read contradictory descriptions of the flavor contribution from
this process. i'm looking for a 'smokey' type flavor, will this do it?
still, i'll prob try it anyway just for the experience but i'm curious
what people think.

brew on!

 -patrick in Toronto
- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		      http://www.finerty.net/pjf


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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:59:22 -0400
From: "KVP Publishers" <kvppublishers at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: The Brewers' Handbook

KVP Publishers would like to announce the new release of The Brewers'
Handbook.  The
Brewers' Handbook is a comprehensive introduction on the art and science of
brewing beer.
This easy to read book is a practical, step-by-step guide that covers it
all, including: U.S. Beer
Industry, Ingredients, Malt Milling, Brewery Cleaning and Sanitation,
Mashing and Wort Separation,
Wort Boiling and Cooling, Fermentation Science and Technology, Conditioning,
Filtration,
Carbonation, Bottling and Draft Operations, Beer Spoliage Organisms, and
Beer Styles.

For more information visit our site at: http://www.brewershandbook.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:56:46 -0500
From: Marc Morency <marcmo.marcobrau.com at mail.marcobrau.com>
Subject: White Labs article

Hey, all.

I don't post here much, but read a lot and I thought I'd point out this
interesting little article
(http://www.yeastbank.com/bsr/yeast2nd2000.htm) from the White Labs
(yeast-maker) web site. There's something interesting marks . . .
especially this comment below. He seems to be saying that pitching rate
is secondary to aeration, which may hold true given that I used a White
Labs yeast recently to make a Saision (dry Belgian ale) and the beer
started at an OG of 1.070 and fermented down during the course of a
month to 1.018 (with aeration in the primary after the wort was cooled
and after racking to the secondary.)

"In commercial breweries, what is important is the pitching rate,
finishing off
 fermentation, yeast collection and yeast storage. For the homebrewer,
what is
 important is wort aeration, yeast strain differences, yeast
flocculation and
 control fermentation temperature."
- -- Christopher E. White
President, White Labs

Cheers,

Marc

- --


Marc Morency - http://www.geocities.com/marcmo3/index.htm
Marcobrau Beer Pages - http://www.marcobrau.com




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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 00:07:56 -0300
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: But no one answered the question.

In my post on Monday I aired a question.  Admittedly it was 
well disguised under a blanket of attempted humor so I will 
air it again.  

Here's my question.  Can you over Dry Hop/Late hop a beer. 
For example, use no initial bittering hops and add 6 oz 
(170 grams) of 4.5 alpha Noble hops with 5 minutes remaining 
in the boil.  This would theoretically set the IBU at about 
20 for a 5 gallon brew while leaving much of the flavor and 
aroma intact.  Another concept would be 1/4 oz (7g.) at 
60 minutes and 4.5 oz. (127g) at 5 minutes for a similar 20
IBU. 

It just sounded like an interesting concept.

Incidentally I said that 42.5 IBU was a shocker....  

True for anyone but the Hop Heads in the HBD.

On the subject of HELMETS.  There should be no mention 
of helmets in the HBD unless the helmet is being is full 
of beer and is used regularly as a drinking vessel or the 
helmet is being used as a makeshift HOPBACK.  
- -- 
Rod Prather
Indianapolis, Indiana



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 06:18:25 EDT
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: removing labels

In a message dated 7/20/2000 12:41:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DeVeaux 
Gauger <dvx at mich.com> writes:

<< Does anyone have a good method for removing existing labels from beer
 bottles?  I soak them in hot water and dish soap but it still requires a
 substantial amount of scrubbing.
 Help! >>

I soak bottles in a mixture of TSP and bleach for a couple of days.  It does 
a great job of removing labels and cleaning out anything that happened to be 
growing inside the bottle.  Follow the directions on the label of the TSP for 
amounts.

Keith MacNeal
Worcester, MA


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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:54:58 -0700
From: "Eric J Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net>
Subject: Back up the Beer Wagon!

>From Gethro Jump come the following bittersweet commentary:

"While I am complimenting brews acquired at the NHC, and having followed
certain traffic on the web, I must state that whilst  at  NHC I drank Fouch's
Wit....it was pretty damn good!..."

Why thank you very much!  I bask in the warmth of your approbations!

"My compliments.....you might talk trash, but you sure can brew....!"

I guess I should start using the Aussie Categorization on my post's from now
on.  Is this a "3" or a "2"?

"Now, as for your girlish squeals.......I am sure there are 12 Step
Programs that can help....     ;-)"

Hey- you win a Kalamazoo Brewing pullover and try to contain yourself.
Besides, Todd goosed me.

I guess these accolades will be sufficient to lift the lifetime ban I hit
you with when you first broke out with the "girlish squeals" smack back in
"C" Town.  We'll send you "The Video".  Ask Phil about it.

On to a category "1" I think (or is it a "2"?) regarding John's witty
question:

"This is a much more liberal mashing schedule than my normal one. And yet, I
got pretty disappointing efficiency. I usually have no problem getting 75%
and this time I got closer to 65%. Any suggestions on a better
mashingschedule?
Thanks.John"

I find that higher adjunct brews like wits typically have a lower realized
efficiency.  I'm not sure why.  Al K has a few thoughts on this, but he's
been pretty tight lipped about it.

Maybe he'll drop a line on it?

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery (Category 5- for tax purposes)
Kentwood, MI




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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:02:16 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re: no sparge thoughts; R value

Louis comments on the foam and clarity of Pete's and Steve's
no (low) sparge beers. It's hard sometimes to critique a problem
when precise data isn't available; but with the brewing knowledge
here we should be able to eliminate some possibilities and narrow
it down fairly well. My first thoughts of the reduced foam would be
excess protein degradation; were highly modified malts used and
protein rest done? As to increased haze, again I would wonder about
maybe _insufficient_protein degradation; but then that wouldn't go hand
in hand with the reduced foam premise. That could *maybe point to
unconverted starch carryover. Or maybe increased tannins from a sparge
would help in the hot-break, leading to better & quicker clearing.
  If we look at the possibilities and get feedback from the brewers then
we may pinpoint the commonalities.  Can we get a better look at the
time/temperature profiles?

/////////////////

Jeremy asked about R-values. Last time I asked around I got this:
R value is the inverse of the transmissivity value, U.
U= BTU/hour/sqft/degree temperature difference. 
Thus, a typical fiberglass batt has an R-value of 13. This means a U-value
of 1/13 = 0.077 BTU/hr/sq ft/degree.
A wall with area of 100 sq. ft, insulated to R-13, with 70F on one side and
30F
on the other, will transmit 308 BTU/hour. 100sqft x 40degrees x 0.077.
Substitute your numbers and see the BTU load for your room.
I popped in when a local pub was putting up their cold room and asked what
the R value was they used, they said 24 was recommended but they were
going for 30; R19 glass batts + 4 inches of ridgid foam, a little overkill,
prefab walkin units are 4 inches of  styrene foam.
 A ton is 12,000 BTU/hr.
  Hope this helps a bit.

N.P. (Del) Lansing



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:30:42 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Bottles, Label Removal

DeVeaux Gauger <dvx at mich.com> asked what can be used to remove labels from
bottles.  I use ammonia.  Diluted maybe 5:1 or 10:1 with water.  If the
solution is warm, the labels will slide off after soaking for less than an
hour.  It may take a few hours if the solution is cold.  I save the labels
from beers I taste.  I keep a large plastic jar of solution with a screw on
lid.  I have been using the solution for 3 or 4 years, maybe 50 or 75
labels.  It seems to work as well as when it was fresh.

For bulk removal of labels from a case of bottles, I put them in a tub and
fill them with the solution so they stay submerged in it.  I feel this
helps clean the inside of the bottle also. 

It will be interesting to see what others use.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 06:59:13 -0700
From: "Jay Hummer" <jayhumm at zdnetonebox.com>
Subject: Keg/bottle Carbonation

I'm a new brewer who's not having much luck with carbonating my beer
in bottles.  My first batch (brown ale)was primed with 2/3 C. corn sugar
and has yet to throw off a speck of yeast sediment.  (It was bottled
seven weeks ago.)  I KNOW that I put that sugar in it, so I guess I somehow
killed the yeast (or Carlson put something other than sugar in that bag).
 Besides it's complete stillness, it tastes fine, everything in the brewing
process went well (according to what I've read).  Anyway, I just ordered
a kegging set-up.  When it arrives, I'd like test it out by kegging the
brown ale.  Will I be all right just pouring the bottles (as calmly as
possible) into the keg and force carbonating it?  If I have less than
a full keg, do I still put 25 lbs. of pressure on it for the "shake-method,"
or the less full it is, the less pressure you need?

My second batch of beer (cream ale) is undercarbonated.  I used 4 Prime
Tabs in each 12 oz. bottle.  It has a little more than a sixteenth inch
of yeast sediment, CO2 bite, a few bubbles, but no head -- certainly
not fully carbonated.  Tastes great, though.  I don't know what I did
to this batch, either.  I did underpitch it (a regular-sized smack pack,
right into the fermentor).  (Starters for every batch from now on, no
comments necessary.)  My thoughts to save this batch -- pop off the caps,
toss in another one or two Prime Tabs, and recap 'em.  Does anyone see
any problems with doing this?

I'm not giving up on bottling yet.  I plan to keg three gallons and bottle
two, for a while.  At least some of it will work.  I'm starting not to
mind flat beer -- that's not good!

- -- 
Jay Hummer
Burpless Brewing Co.
'79 CT90

___________________________________________________________________
To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax,
all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Helmut? Has anyone seen my Helmut?


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

You mean HBD isn't Helmet Bashing Digest?

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:31:22 -0500
From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl at sagedesign.com>
Subject: My Last Word on Winnipeg

Actually Brian, the Toronto schools showed us where Winnipeg is on a map
and taught us to never go there. What you forget to mention is the fact
that when its not mosquito season the temperature is -40C (for those of
you using the Fahrenheit scale that's also -40 degrees, friggin cold).
Unfortunately I failed that course and went to Winnipeg for a conference
at the beginning of December one year.

I'm glad to hear that things are looking on the ups in Winnipeg. I
understand a brewpub opened last year (or thereabouts), and now a homebrew
club. Cheers! I suspect it will be a few years before your club will be
able to give the Edmonton Homebrewers Guild a run for their money - we're
use to handing over the best club award to them at most of our
competitions. This my cleaver attempt get you going on Edmonton instead of
T.O.

As for Bob and his proclamations about his city's football and baseball
teams... I noticed you conveniently forgot the Blues. Everyone from St
Louis at MCAB was telling me about how you'd all be hoisting the Stanley
Cup, but I guess being from Toronto I best not go there. As much as I'd
love to hoist a few pints with you (heck, even Brian maybe) at the Great
Taste of the Midwest, the fact that I'm moving this summer (I'm not
leaving Toronto though) has pretty well nullified any chance to do beer
travels this summer.

Finally, this is my last post on the subject -- not only because I think
we're using up space on the hbd that'd better used with insightful brewing
info but also because I'm heading up north for a short vacation to fend of
mosquitos. 

Darryl in Toronto  (where our football team is worst than yours)



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:52:22 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: "village idiot" of the HBD

"Phil Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> laments that all the good jobs were taken:
>So in the end I just went for village idiot. No one seemed to want the job,
>and I fitted in nicely.

He forgets how he broke into HBD - by running unopposed for the office of
chief animal abuser.  That was when the cat that was swung in the Yates
household was not the one with nine tales.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:26:42 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Aluminum Wars! was RE: Some Questions

"Alex Weeks" <fargone at napanet.net> wrote:
>
><<1. The 28 quart aluminum stock pot works well for cooking lobster,  Should
>I use
><<this pot for preparing and cooking the wort, or should I get a
><<stainless pot?
>
>You should definately use stainless steel.  Not only can tha aluminum pot
>add a metalic taste, there are a number of health reasons to just get rid of
>it all together.

Alex - I'm going to ask you to back up these assertions.  I've used 40 qt.
aluminum stock pots for several years for heating sparge water, mashing,
lautering, boiling and often fermenting, and have no metallic flavors.
Among other beers, I brew pale, delicately flavored lagers (including a
"Lite" for our son's wedding reception that turned out very well), and if
there were metallic flavors, they would have certainly shown up.  And it's
not that I have a blind taste for metal, these beers have been tasted by
many others including BJCP judges, both informally and in competitions,
without any comments on metallic tastes.

Secondly, what "number of health reasons" do you mean?  There was the
aluminum-Alzheimer's scare of a few years ago, but the initial studies
showing a correlation were never replicated.  Unfortunately, this concern
has taken on a life of its own despite now being dismissed by researchers.
I'm not aware of any other concerns ever being raised.

Even if there were reason to reduce aluminum intake, a Brewing Techniques
article several years ago showed that wort boiled in aluminum had the same
level of aluminum as identical wort boiled in stainless steel - and this
was less than the water used to brew.

I don't think there is any reason to reject aluminum for brewing unless
you're cleaning with caustic.  I agree with Ron that you shouldn't scour it
to bright metal.  If you do, let it sit until it oxidizes again.

Aluminum is cheaper than stainless and is a far better conductor of heat.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:36:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: "village idiot" of the HBD


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, Jeff Renner, in speaking to Phil Yates, wrote:

> "Phil Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> laments that all the good jobs were taken:
> >So in the end I just went for village idiot. No one seemed to want the job,
> >and I fitted in nicely.
> 
> He forgets how he broke into HBD - by running unopposed for the office of
> chief animal abuser.  That was when the cat that was swung in the Yates
> household was not the one with nine tales.
 
 Yeah! Besides: the post of "Village Idiot" is and has been filled for some
 time. And I'm not quitting anytime soon...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:42:41 GMT
From: happydog at nations.net
Subject: A419 Johnson controls 

With all the talk about cool rooms I would like to pass this along.
I have a Johnson controls A419 Single stage temp controller with
display heating/cooling range -30F to 212F. (A419ABC-1C)
This one needs to be hard wired and does come with one temp probe.
Anyone using one of these? Anyone want this one? I have had it new in
the box for about a year.


Wil Kolb
Happy Dog Brewing Supplies
401 W.Coleman Blvd
Mt Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084
1-800-528-9391
happydog at nations.net
www.maltydog.com


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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:51:25 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: RE: Organizing a homebrew club

Mark Videan wrote:

>Having recently attended the AHA NHC, and been struck with the camaraderie,
>generosity, and over all good will exhibited by all the clubs in
attendance,
>I have decided to start a home-brew club.  I've been brewing for 9 years on
>my own, but would enjoy having some buddies to share this obsession with.
>I've lined up a local B. O. P.  facility as our meeting place.  I'm in need
>of any info anyone can provide on organizing a club.  I've been wondering
>about: frequency of meetings, amount of dues, fundraising, nonprofit legal
>status, election of officers, handling money, AHA sanctioning, etc...
>Perhaps there is a set of guidelines.  I could just "wing it," but
>don't want to reinvent the wheel.

Mark,

You can find information on starting a Homebrew Club on the AHA website at:
http://www.beertown.org/AHA/clubshome.htm.  You'll find info on getting
things started, not-for-profit status, incorportating, etc.  There is also
an index of homebrew clubs that you can find on that page.  The index
includes a number of websites for clubs across the country, check some of
them out, this will give you a good idea of what other clubs are doing.  You
can also add your own club to the index right there on the website.
Registering your club with the AHA is easy, just call Nick or Crissy at
1-888-U-CAN-BREW with the relevant info (name of club, contact info, email,
website if you have one...), they will set you up.  Registering your club is
free and you get a club subscription to Zymurgy.  Registered clubs can also
participate in AHA Club-Only competitions (info can be found from the page
listed above).

The AHA is also looking into setting up an insurance program for clubs to
cover liability at club events.  Stay tuned for more details.

If you have any questions, give me a call or send me an email:
1-888-U-CAN-BREW x 121, gary at aob.org.

Cheers,
Gary Glass
- -------------------------
Gary Glass, Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
Voice: (303) 447-0816 x 121
Fax: (303) 447-2825
Email: gary at aob.org
Web: http://www.beertown.org



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:52:48 -0700
From: "Alex Weeks" <fargone at napanet.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wars! was RE: Some Questions

Jeff's notes are marked with a >
> Alex - I'm going to ask you to back up these assertions.  I've used 40 qt.
> aluminum stock pots for several years for heating sparge water, mashing,
> lautering, boiling and often fermenting, and have no metallic flavors.

I have to admit that there was only one thing I have ever tasted aluminum
in.  My ex was a horrible cook!  She made spagetti one night that was just
awful, really metalic tasting!  Not sure what she did to it, and was afraid
to ask!  I haven't used aluminum pots since then, so I will admit I don't
have a lot to back that statement.

> Among other beers, I brew pale, delicately flavored lagers (including a
> "Lite" for our son's wedding reception that turned out very well), and if
> there were metallic flavors, they would have certainly shown up.

On a side note, I'd love to do a swap.  I do a lot of IPA's and am trying to
prefect my oatmeal stout.

> Secondly, what "number of health reasons" do you mean?  There was the
> aluminum-Alzheimer's scare of a few years ago, but the initial studies
> showing a correlation were never replicated.  Unfortunately, this concern
> has taken on a life of its own despite now being dismissed by researchers.
> I'm not aware of any other concerns ever being raised.

The issue has not been dismissed yet.  A quick search for aluminum on
Alzheimers.com    will  produce results of recent studies.  Let me quote a
news release from july 13, 2000:

<<<According to Dr. Virginie Rondeau, of Universite Victor Segalen Bordeaux
II, and colleagues, "our study suggests that a concentration of aluminum in
drinking water above 0.1 milligrams/liter may be a risk factor of dementia
and, especially, Alzheimer's disease."  The research team followed nearly
2,700 individuals for an 8-year period to identify new cases of probable
Alzheimer's or other dementing illness. "The sample was divided into 77
drinking water areas," the study authors
write in the July issue of the American Journal of Epidemiology, with
surveys
conducted to determine "concentrations of aluminum, calcium, and fluorine
in each water supply." >>>

> Even if there were reason to reduce aluminum intake, a Brewing Techniques
> article several years ago showed that wort boiled in aluminum had the same
> level of aluminum as identical wort boiled in stainless steel - and this
> was less than the water used to brew.

That is an interesting point, I do know that stainless steel has a level of
aluminum in it.  I would love to see that article.  It could have saved me a
lot of money.  Reguardless of what kind of metal used I think we both would
agree that using a plastic spoon would lower metal levels, since metal
scrapping metal will bring out more metal.

I make no claims to be right, but from the information that I have been
provided I has my opinions, but would not feel bad in being proved wrong.
In fact I would like it!  I have been considering buying a larger kettle (my
7 gallon one barely makes it for a 5 gallon batch).

On a completely different note: I may be heading Australia around January or
February.  Any suggestions for breweries, pubs, or anything of the such that
I should see?

Alex



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:05:35 -0700
From: "Alex Weeks" <fargone at napanet.net>
Subject: Aluminum and you... 

I have recently ben hit with a lot of questions about my comments about
aluminum.  I used one of the letters to reply to everyone thru the HBD.
(Sorry Jeff..)  I'm glad I opened my mouth for once.  I have been reading
the HBD for a long time but have only posted a couple of times.  I just did
a little more research on aluminum and alzheimers. I looked at their list of
possible causes (health related factors) and have copied out the part on
aluminum:

<<<
Exposure to aluminum

Aluminum is unusually abundant in the neurofibrillary tangles of brain
tissue
of people with Alzheimer's disease. For years, rumors have circulated that
aluminum cookware contributed to the disease. And for just as long,
scientists have scoffed at this notion because aluminum is one of the most
abundant elements on earth and everyone is exposed to a great deal of it.
[5] But at least one study published in the prestigious medical journal
Lancet linked an increased risk of Alzheimer's disease to drinking water
with more than 11 micrograms of aluminum per liter. [6] If you're concerned
enough about aluminum to spend about $100 to have it tested, the National
Testing Laboratory of Cleveland includes aluminum in a 74-item test of water
quality. Call 800-458-3330, and they'll send you a sampling kit. You return
it, and they send you a report. >>>

It looks like I proved myself wrong...

I left in the 800 # since I would like to have my water tested and see what
they tell me about it.. ie. mineral levels.

I guess I'm gonna sit in the corner with an IPA

Alex



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:32:12 -0800
From: Project One <project1 at pond.net>
Subject: Re: Some Questions

At 01:21 AM 7/20/00 -0400, Alex Weeks wrote:

>You should definately use stainless steel.  Not only can tha aluminum pot
>add a metalic taste, there are a number of health reasons to just get rid of
>it all together.

NO NO NO NO NO!!!  Jeez, I thought this had been laid to rest a long time
ago.  Aluminum WILL NOT impart a metallic taste to your beer if it is
properly maintained (as another poster said, don't scrub off the black
oxidation).  I know this for a FACT, because I used an aluminum kettle for
a long time before I got a converted keg.  And I've got the ribbons to
prove it didn't affect the flavor.  And the momily about health problems
from aluminum was disproven some time ago!

Sorry if I yelled, but I get SO tired of hearing this stuff....

                  ----------->Denny



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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:05:27 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Helmets & mead recipe

Catching up on my HBD fix...

John S. wrote of helmets:

>WTF is this.  A helmet thread on HBD.  Guess I'll go on over
>to the Sportster list or Harley digest and see if they're
>discussing brewing.  Next thing you know we'll discussing the
>synthetic v. dyno oils or if it's acceptable to plug tires.

I think they're discussing the pros and cons of breast feeding vs. bottle
feeding on the Sportster List, but oil leaks are still top of the list on
the Harley Digest (ouch!).  Way OT, but maybe it's an undiscovered Y2K bug
or something ;-)

On a subject a bit closer to beer:

Eric A. writes of commercial mead:

>We had
>never before tasted mead and we were both looking forward to tasting
>this honey brew which came so highly recommended by my homebrewering
>friends. When we opened the bottle our experience was, well, less than
>expected and down right terrible.  The mead had the flavor of old
>socks.  It was all I could do to finish a small glass.

Eric, I'm with you on this one.  I only had mead once before (commercial
brand) and would rather drink Dr. Pivo's un-doctored acetone beer while
rubbing myself from head to toe with Phil's skunk oil than take another sip
of that tripe!  But from brewing my own beer I had a feeling I could make a
better mead as well - and I did.  Good luck on yours!

This is the recipe for my first mead and it came out great (if I may say so
myself).  So I would like to post the recipe for those interested:

Strawberry/Kiwi Melomel

For a 5 gallon batch:

3.5 gallons water
10 lbs wildflower honey 
5 lbs strawberries
15 kiwi fruits (peeled, of course)
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/8 cup acid blend (Malic, tartaric and citric acid)
White Labs sweet mead yeast
Pectin enzyme

Bring 3.5 gallons of water to a boil for 10 minutes, turn off heat add 10
lbs of honey.  Stir well and bring to a boil again.  Turn off heat and add
pureed strawberries, kiwi fruits and yeast nutrient.  Stir well and keep
covered for 30 minutes to pastuerize.  Force chill to room temp and add
must, yeast and pectin enzyme (as per package directions) to primary.
Agitate the crap out of it to aerate the must and then bring to full 5
gallon level with additional pre-boiled and cooled water (if needed).  Rack
off of fruit and yeast sediment when air lock activity has stopped (just
under two weeks in my case).  Allow secondary to proceed for another 2 weeks
(or more) and add 1/8 cup acid blend.  Bottle when full attenuation is
reached and if needed, adjust acidity with more acid blend to taste (hell, I
don't have an acid kit!).  The acid blend really helps to bring out the
fruit flavors.

This batch fermented quick and *SUPER* clean.  Running the fruit through the
blender first seems to help the fruit settle after fermentation is complete.
I was going to fine with polyclar but the batch was xtal clear when I went
to bottle it - no need for fining.  

I also used a pinch of ascorbic acid per 750 ml bottle at bottling time to
reduce oxidation.  The bottles were corked and sealed with paraffin wax as
well.  At only 1 1/2 months old it tastes great (and I hate most sweet
wines).  Next bottle to be tasted at the annual HalloWine party!

Making mead is as easy as brewing beer with hopped malt extract kits.  Since
the wife won't let me drag out my all-grain equipment with the new baby
around, I figure a batch of blueberry melomel won't get in the way.  I knew
this was going to happen so I stocked up on 3 cornies of homebrew to get me
through these trying times.  But I have to make SOMETHING!


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:34:19 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Chilling and bottle labels

Ephraim Fithian had a question about immersion chillers:

>I have purchased an immersion cooler that consists of 25 feet of 
>3/8" copper...     ... Is this enough to 
>cool the wort in a reasonable time, or do I need to ice cool the 
>water running through the cooler first? Local water is at 23C (73F) 
>this time of year. 

73 F is pretty warm.  I would suggest using a pre-chiller which you can
construct from the same copper tubing and an extra bucket.  Wrap a coil big
enough to sit inside of the bucket.  Anywhere from 10 to 20 feet will work
fine and add it in between your water source and the immersion chiller.
Since you will get the fastest cooling when the difference between the wort
and the cooling water is greatest, I would suggest cooling with tap water
first (which is in the 70's) until you get down to about 150F or so.  Then
add ice & water to the pre-chiller bucket.  That will then increase the
temperature gradient and you'll see a pretty good rate of chill all the way
down to room temp.  Some people will probably suggest using the pre-chiller
right off the bat to get you down below 140-150F ASAP (an HSA thing), but I
think it's a waste of ice since the gradient is pretty high at that point
and the amount of time saved will not be that great.  Flow rate of the
cooling water is also pretty important because you want it in the
pre-chiller coils long enough to chill down but not too long in the wort
chiller coils since it heats up from the hot wort.  I fiddle with my flow
until the exiting water is body temp or lower.

On an additional note: You can also get the temperature of the pre-chiller's
water below freezing if you use a mixture of crushed ice, cold water, table
salt and either ethyl or isoproplyl alcohol.  I believe it's called an
eutonic solution and I'm not sure of the proportions, but the salt and
alcohol allow the water to reach the temperature of the ice (which is
actually below freezing).  Chill your 73F water first or you'll just be
melting ice and messing up the mixture's proportions ;-)  I'm sure one of
our chemists out there has the ratios in one of their handbooks.  Anybody
know?


DeVeaux Gauger also wanted to know about removing bottle labels:

>Does anyone have a good method for removing existing labels from beer
>bottles?  I soak them in hot water and dish soap but it still requires a
>substantial amount of scrubbing.

I've used household ammonia and warm water with much success.  Most labels
slide right off in a single piece after an hour long soak and the rest of
the gum can be rubbed off the bottle.  Additional advantage: sanitization
Drawback: stinky


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:39:39 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wars! was RE: Some Questions

At 8:52 AM -0700 7/20/00, Alex Weeks wrote:
>The issue has not been dismissed yet.  A quick search for aluminum on
>Alzheimers.com    will  produce results of recent studies.

Thanks for the pointer.  At that site, under "Controversial Risk Ractors,
is this note:

"Exposure to Aluminum

Aluminum is unusually abundant in the neurofibrillary tangles of brain
tissue of people with Alzheimer's disease. For years, rumors have
circulated that aluminum cookware contributed to the disease. And for just
as long, scientists have scoffed at this notion because aluminum is one of
the most abundant elements on earth and everyone is exposed to a great deal
of it. [5] But at least one study published in the prestigious medical
journal Lancet linked an increased risk of Alzheimer's disease to drinking
water with more than 11 micrograms of aluminum per liter. [6] If you're
concerned enough about aluminum to spend about $100 to have it tested, the
National Testing Laboratory of Cleveland includes aluminum in a 74-item
test of water quality. Call 800-458-3330, and they'll send you a sampling
kit. You return it, and they send you a report.

"5 Gray, G.E., "Nutrition and Dementia," Journal of the American Dietetic
Association (1989) 89:1795

"6 Martyn, C.N., "Geographical Relation Between Alzheimer's Disease and
Aluminum in Drinking Water," Lancet (1989) 8629:59"

I don't know if the will check beer, but I suspect they would.

>> Even if there were reason to reduce aluminum intake, a Brewing Techniques
>> article several years ago showed that wort boiled in aluminum had the same
>> level of aluminum as identical wort boiled in stainless steel - and this
>> was less than the water used to brew.
>
>That is an interesting point, I do know that stainless steel has a level of
>aluminum in it.  I would love to see that article.  It could have saved me a
>lot of money.

Unfortunately, that article ("Testing Your Metal - Is Aluminum Hazardous to
Your Beer?" by Jeff Donaghue, Jan/Feb, 1995, vol 3(1), p. 62) is one that
never made if to BT's online site.  Here are some etails.  The author says
that he searched a database of over 2500 periodicals, but this did not
resolve the question of a link, but wrote that "most researchers now [1995]
question any link.  Of course, Alex's citation is one from continuing
research.

The experiment the author conducted consisted of boiling half of an all
2-row malt wort of 1.040, pH 5.0 in a 10 gal. stainless steel kettle and
the other half in a 20 gal. NSF aluminum stock pot that "was well used and
had acquired a patina (dull gray surface)."  Both worts were fermented and
the worts and final beer tested.  All four had less than the detection
limit of 0.4 mg/L.  He writes that a more sensitive test would have been
prohibitively costly.  I apparently misremembered that they tested less
than the original water - I was sure I had read that somewhere.  Maybe
somewhere else.

The author says that studies show that the average daily aluminum intake
isd 20.5 mg - 20 mg from food and 0.5 mg from liquid intake.  It is
apparent that a liter per day of beer of less than 0.4 mg/L would not add
significantly to this.

So far I'm willing to take this risk.

Now, does anybody know where I left my car keys?

Jeff


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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