HOMEBREW Digest #3408 Sat 19 August 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  chlorine & chloramine removal (Demonick)
  RE: RE: Or am I just being paranoid about bacteria (Doug Hurst)
  koeln (Alan McKay)
  Re: Decoction and other fun topics . . . . (Spencer W Thomas)
  Mail Order ("Jason Henning")
  The FIVE tastes, Vegemite, and autolyzed yeast (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
  Fruit OG and drunks ("Ken Schramm")
  Follow-up to much earlier post (Chris Cooper)
  Glycol question / False bottom (The Holders)
  Smorgasbord (Jim English)
  report from Koeln (fwd) (The Home Brew Digest)
  More on extract ratings and gravity calculation (Steve Lacey)
  Re: The Word down under ("Warren White")
  Paranoid,ppppg confusion,SS stain,and Boulder ("Henry St.Pierre")
  RE: whirlpool/first wort hopping/why aerate ("Seog Lee")
  Huge unhealthy fridge (fridgeguy)
  mailorder brew shops ("Czerpak, Pete")
  specialty grains and rogue ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: Pap's bad info ("Michael Maag")
  Ayinger yeast (Jeff Renner)
   ("Hull, Ted")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:31:50 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: chlorine & chloramine removal Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> said: >If the water company doesn't use pure chlorine ( fewer do) boiling will >not have too big an effect on the stabilized chlorine ( typically >chloramine). Allowing such water to sit for three days as Lance suggests >will do little to allow the chlorine to escape. I suggest you use a carbon >filter for this purpose if you are really concerned. Back in March 98, A.J. de Lange (THE brewing water God) posted the following. It contradicts the assumption that chloramines are harder to remove than chlorine. Read the first quoted paragraph very carefully, and note that it is a quote from, Connell, Gerald F. "The Chlorination/Chloramination Handbook", American Water Works Association, Denver 1996 p29. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only. - -------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 22:19:30 -0400 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Chloramine Heresies I came across this the other day: "While free chlorine is far less volatile than combined chlorines, it is not easily removed by aeration. However, combined chlorines are easily removed by aeration, and the volatility or vapor pressure increases with increases in chlorine atoms in the combined chlorine compounds." ... "Di- and trichloramines contribute more significantly to tastes and odors than free chlorine and monochloramine....Free chlorine and monochloramine in treated water contribute minimally to the taste of water." >From Connell, Gerald F. "The Chlorination/Chloramination Handbook", American Water Works Association, Denver 1996 p29. Am I the only one that thought it was the other way around? I've certainly been preaching the gospel of boiling/aeration for chlorine and active carbon filtration for chloramine but if the people at the AWWA aren't expert in this area I don't know who is. Ever the skeptic, I lugged the gear into the office today (I'm on a well and so have no chlorinated water available to play with at home) and amused my co-workers (infantile buggers - one picked up a cuvette, headed for the door and said he'd be back in a minute with a sample) by doing some tests in the kitchen there. A sample from the tap measured 1.10 mg/L free chlorine and 0.41 mg/L chloramines. I boiled a portion of this sample for a few minutes in the microwave and cooled it. The cooled sample measured 0.02 mg/L free chlorine and 0 chloramine but note that chloramine is estimated by measuring total chlorine (which measured 0.02 mg/L) and subtracting the free chlorine reading of 0.02. The precision (not the accuracy) of the measurement is 0.01 mg/L so both readings are "in the noise" but the conclusion is the first heresy: Boiling removes chloramine! I then took a tumblerfull of the water to my office and actually did a little work. Five hours later I ran a test on the water which had remained in the tumbler undisturbed for that period. It measured 1.17 mg/L free chlorine and 0.18 mg chloramine. Thus the second heresy: chloramine is indeed more volatile than chlorine and thus escapes from standing water more quickly than free chlorine. How could the free chlorine be higher after standing five hours than at the outset? I believe the answer is that some chloramine had decomposed into free chlorine and ammonia which is consistent with the statement of the local water works personnel that free chlorine is a couple of tenths of a mg/L when the water leaves the plant. This is also consistent with the fact that aquarists treat chloraminated water for ammonia if they don't remove chlorine and chloramines with activated carbon. Finally, I took the remaining water in the tumbler and poured it back and forth a few times. A final test gave 1.01 mg/L free chlorine (a 14% reduction) and 0.13 mg/L chloramine (a 28% reduction). Thus the third heresy is confirmed: chloramine is more effectively removed than free chlorine by aeration. So what do you all think of that? Apparently about 25% of large water utilities and about 5% of small ones are now using chloramination (are you there, Al?). Thus many of you are starting with chloraminated water. Are any of you using just a boil, aeration or standing to remove the chlorine and getting away with it? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:08:42 -0500 From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: RE: RE: Or am I just being paranoid about bacteria > > > By the time you're ready to siphon into the secondary fermenter the yeast > have fully taken over your beer. Like a large city, they have reproduced > themselves and expanded into the furthest corners of your fermenter. Add > to this the alcohol they are producing, plus the hops in the beer and you > have a very inhospitable environment for infectious bacteria. > > While some caution should be used regarding sanitation of anything that > touches the beer, I doubt you have any cause for concern. Remember that > beer was made for thousands of years before anyone even knew about the > existence or activity of bacteria and yeast. It follows that they weren't > all too concerned about sanitation. As Chalie Papazian says "Relax, don't > worry, have a homebrew" (though in your case have a microbrew). > > Hope this eases your concerns and when your beer turns out alright you'll > feel even better. It's like opening a birthday present when you open that > first completed bottle of homebrew. Also note that when you're ready to > bottle, your beer should appear and taste like beer (though it will be > flat and maybe a little cloudy). If it is infected you'll know then. > > Personally, I use the fill the tube with water method to start my syphon > and it can be tricky and messsy to get it started. I just purchased a > siphon starter made by Fermentap that I hope will eliminate siphon > starting problems. > > Hope this helps, > > Doug Hurst > Chicago, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com> Subject: koeln mmmm, seems my report sent the other day didnt get through. anyway, i am here in cologne now doing research for a book on how best to visit the city as a beer geek. the book is quite a ways off yet, but email me for details. there is an awful lot worth seeing outside the centre of the city, and with the awesome transport system it is easy to get to. email me and let me know when you will be here, and what type of bars you usually like. cheers, -alan "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:23:21 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Decoction and other fun topics . . . . Hmm. Louis Bonham says: Louis> from a final taste standpoint, there is nothing that Louis> amateur brewers can get from decoction mashing that you Louis> can't also get from step infusion mashing and recipe Louis> formulation (e.g., increase the amount of Munich malt a bit Louis> if you want more melanoidins). This is a bit difference from what I understood Lewis to be saying. My understanding of his position is that "decoction has no perceptible effect on flavor." I just flat don't believe that statement. I could possibly see my way to believing that you can get flavor effects "close enough" to those produced by decoction, by proper recipe formulation. Besides, it's fun to do! :-) =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:33:01 -0400 From: "Jason Henning" <jason at thehennings.com> Subject: Mail Order I don't do a lot of mail orders because I prefer to shop locally. I'm luck to be able to. The few times that I have, I've used Grape and Granary. Awesome service! I order a couple bags of grain on Wednesday and had them on Friday. If I had know that it was going to be so quick, I'd made a yeast starter for that weekend. you can find them at http://www.grapeandgranary.com/ As for St. Pats, it's a never ending saga. They out pace every other company in complaints. Search the archives or Deja News and you find plenty of people with complaints. It's not unusual for Lynn to all but call the brewer a liar. From poorly packed orders to defective kegs to slow shipping, it's never St. Pat's fault. I was looking for 15 cases of 7oz bottles for the AHA Tech Conference commemorative mead last spring. I call St. Pats and asked for Lynn. She was on another line. They took my name and number and said she'd call me back. I got no call. So I tried again the next day. Lynn was on jury duty but was expected back in the afternoon. Again they told me she would call me back. You guessed it, no call. Now that it looks like Dryw Blanchard and I have gotten the St. Pat's thread revived, how about revisiting glass vs. plastic fermentors or botulism again? Cheers, Jason Henning Senior Rennerian Coordinate Developer Whitmore Lake, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:48:47 -0400 From: "Steinbrunner, Jim (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com> Subject: The FIVE tastes, Vegemite, and autolyzed yeast Warning - This post is marginally beer-related. Relax, have a craftbrew, and read on if you're interested. Also, I'm not affiliated with any references here, just interested in beer and beer by-products. I frequent the Cecil Adams _The Straight Dope_ website (motto: Fighting ignorance since 1973 - it's taking longer than we thought). I came across this Mailbag article on a fifth taste, umami: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mumami.html Salt, sweet, sour, bitter... and umami? Umami is described as _meaty_, and a prime example is the flavor of monosodium glutamate, aka MSG. A good source of MSG is... autolyzed brewer's yeast! Umami is pronounced ooh-mommy, as in _Ooh, Mommy, you've abused your yeast!_ I recently visited Sydney, Australia, where I had my first Vegemite (Kraft trademark) experience. It's a dark brown paste made from concentrated yeast extract, according to the label. Locals told me that, like beer, it's an acquired taste. So far, unlike beer, I have not acquired the taste. I did a little web search and found this unofficial Vegemite site, and a recipe for autolyzing yeast ON PURPOSE! http://www.ozemail.com.au/~macinnis/vegemite.htm Seasoning is added and, voila! VEGEMITE. A salty, umami-tasting spread beloved by Aussies of all ages, and they owe it all to beer! Come to think of it, a beer or two would be good to wash down the rather persistent aftertaste : ) Aussies and Vegemite: Viva l'difference! Jim Steinbrunner Midland, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:49:49 -0400 From: "Ken Schramm" <schramk at resa.net> Subject: Fruit OG and drunks Fermentables in fruit: The typical gravity of fruit juices like apple and cherry runs in the 1.045 -1.060 range. Figure about 1.052 as a rule for ripe cherries. Re: Drunks: Yes, you can legislate morality. It doesn't always work; it can create ugly situations that can persist for long periods of time, occassionally with nasty by-products. But we've done it repeatedly in the US, and it goes on around the globe. And it doesn't come only from left wingers or right wingers, no matter how hard we try to paste those outside of our own views with the complete "blame." That is a commonly used trick designed to blame your opponents with any distasteful issue you can scrape up, to further your own political ends or further one's own illusions about the right headedness of their own end of the spectrum. Both sides of the political spectrum can be held to "blame" for regulation and legislation of morality (in the US and abroad). The moral issues with alcohol are personal, and some of them are sticky (is drunk ever OK? How drunk is too drunk? How often is too often? How do you behave when drunk?), but some of them need to be regulated (how much alcohol can not be mixed with car keys?). Driving while intoxicated is, however, regulated in almost all cultures, whether liberal or conservative, and even to extremes in cultures of both bents. In many respects you can and must regulate morality. Look at the moral issues that have been or are regulated, codified or prohibited: slavery, voting rights, civil rights, alcohol use, drug use, abortion rights. The job of our representatives in government is to listen to the citizens, closely examine their own moral compass, and create structure that allows our society to function in a manner we perceive and believe is fair. It is arguably better than anarchy, but it relies on perception, influence through rhetoric, societal decisions and legislative power. And many of the ways in which we have legislated morality look pretty d-mn good to me, and have made our country a lot better. But not all of them. Alcohol use and the legality of homebrewing definitley fall somewhere in the mix. So the issue of public perception can be paramount. Pat's point is well taken, on my account. A few years ago, I appeared on a Detroit television newscast, commenting on our State Fair Homebrew judging, and the news anchor that interviewed me seemed to have the predilection that we were judging beer, therefor we'd all get blasted. I corrected her and set the record straight, but she came to the discussion with a preconception that was not favorable, and a news anchor is in the position to influence the minds of many people (some of whom let the media do their thinking for them, which is a horror in itself). I had the same experience when I was interviewed about homebrewing and beer judging on the most popular morning drive time radio program in Tokyo (now there's a few sets of ears). Again, I tried to set the record straight: small samples, limited number of samples, long period of time, the importance of being able to judge coherently and consistently. If we let the misconception persist, or worse still, fertilize it, we will bear the brunt of whatever legislative or regulatory hassles ensue. Ken Schramm Ann Arbor Brewers Guild AHA BoA Troy, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:25:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: Follow-up to much earlier post Greetings All! This is a follow-up to a couple of posts I made a few months back. Through the Digest I had requested Yeast suppliers to provide an informal description of their suggested method for making starters using their product. I recieved a reply from David Logsdon of Wyeast (THANKS David !) To test his suggestion I prepared a common wort (10-gallons made from 30% flaked maize, 70% pale 2-row, single infusion mash, lightly hopped, 60 minute boil) and prepared both a Wyeast #1056 and Wyeast Pilsner smack pack starter as described below. And now I would like to share the final results of my simple experiment. Both beers came out very good, short lag times (less than 16 hours) and nice finish (both beers cleared nicely although the pilsner took several weeks in the lagering fridge to completely clear). The starting gravity was around 1.050 for both brews, the Pilsner finished at 1.011 and the Ale finished at 1.014. The ale is slightly darker in color while the Pilsner is almost golden. Both have suitable head stability, lace and finish. The ale is a bit light in the hops balance for my taste but the Pilsner is right on the mark. In effect I ended up with a CAP and basically a Creme-Ale. In retrospect the suggested stepping methods were fairly easy to follow and had good results. The temperature control steps for the Pilsner yeast were a bit challenging but I was lucky in that my recently aquired lagering fridge and controller allowed me to hit the target temps fairly close. I have had several people taste the beers side-by-side, the corn flavor is definitely more pronounced in the ale than the pilsner but both are fairly clean and make suitable session beers. My wife (the infamous Debbi of the Kitchen, see sig. line) is an artist and we have a shop at the local Mich. Renaisance Faire, these brews are very popular with our back-room neighbors and friends at the fair (along with my annual batch of cyser, infamous in our shire!). May your wort never scortch and your sparge never stick! - ---------------------copy of David Logsdon's original reply------------ Thank you for the opportunity to address some of the questions you have regarding yeast propagation and yeast handling. Much has transpired in the 15 years we have been producing yeast for homebrewers. Initial yeast packages of yeast we produced then, had a target cell count of dry yeast which was the only thing available to homebrewers at that time. Since then our cell counts have been increased significantly. To obtain an ideal pitching rate, the viability of the yeast, the oringinal gravity of the wort and the dissolved oxygen are all variables which need to be addressed. There are many ways to achieve the desired results, the following scenarios are suggestions. For making 5 gallons of ale, 1.040 - 1.050 original gravity, add 50 mls of active yeast to a 500 ml starter solution of dry malt extract made up to an original gravity of 1.040, boiled, cooled to 75 F and aerated. Continue frequent agitation to supply as much O2 as possible. Typically within 24 hours, when the starter is in high kerausen it could be transferred to 5 gallons of wort or continued to propagate by adding to 1500 ml of additional malt extract as prepared above, for higher gravity wort or higher pitching rates. It would be ready to transfer to 20 liters in 24 hours. 50 mls of lager yeast can be started in a smaller volume (200 mls) for the first 24 hours at 75 F. Then stepped down to 65 F for 24 hours in 1 liter of malt extract wort s.g. 1.040, then transferred to 2 liters of wort at 55 F for 24-48 hours prior to pitching into 20 liters. Key points are : Producing sterile wort with aseptic handling. Many people feel that wort is unstabile and that contaminants will grow if not protected by the yeast. This is generally untrue. If contaminat organisms are present in the wort, they will grow along with the yeast. Adequately boiled and cooled wort should remain free of growth for 72 hours if left unpitched. That is a commercial brewery standard. Provide adequate aeration (dissolved oxygen), even adding more O2 the day after brewing. Pitching on high kerausen. It is a general rule to make increases or transfers in 5 to 10 fold increments. Making the transfer on high kerausen with good aeration has a greater impact then any other aspect of propagation. That is why the many people who do not make starters, but pitch fresh yeast from an activated package into well aerated sterile (stable) wort, can make good beer too. Like most things in life, the more one puts into it the more they get out of it. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen) Commerce, Michigan Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild (Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:32:32 -0700 From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> Subject: Glycol question / False bottom Can anyone tell me how many gallons of 45F glycol it would take to chill 18-20 gallons of boiling wort to 65F using a Maxichiller? I know that chilled glycol is used in plate exchangers, but I'm unsure on how to figure the ratio needed. Also, has anyone out there made a false bottom for a converted liquid oxygen dewar like the ones at http://mwb.brewer.net/BrewKettles.htm ? It has a slightly convex bottom, and so far all I've been able to do is stare at my own reflection in it. I've seen these sold in the past, so I'm sure someone out there has a solution. Should I just make a Sqeezymasher? Any tin knockers out there with a suggestion? TIA, Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA http://www.zymico.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:31:00 -0400 From: Jim English <jim.english at mindspring.com> Subject: Smorgasbord Multiple topics, multiple thoughts... It's been great reading all the Aussie posts of late. Irreverence, humo(u)r, creativity...sounds like a description of "Americans" around the world a century, or so, ago. We've lost our edge. You guys still have it. The HB scene in au. seems to be where we(US) were a while back. I've only been in the hobby 5 years and there are way more ingredients and gizmos available to me than I will ever want to use. I gather from posts from the old-timers it was not always so. Perhaps we could learn a little about the spirit of the whole endeavour from our antipodean (love THAT word) compatriots. It was good to see some good 'ol Libertarian arithmetic from Mark Rogers without being so obvious as to identify himself with any "group". Jeff, why did you have to bring up the prion thing, just as I was planning my Squirrel Brain Stout!!! Just damn. CAUTION: Brewing-related material to follow "Father, I must confess that after 3 years of exclusively all-grain brewing, I had to throw a partial extract..oh hell..an extract lager (only a half-pound of crystal and a pound of light Munich). The shame...the horror." Baloney. The yeast was ready. The time was non-existant. More importantly, supplies were perilously low. A man has to do what a man has to do. I'll deal with my Karma later. JRE 'hotlanta Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:05:43 -0400 (EDT) From: The Home Brew Digest <hbd at brew.oeonline.com> Subject: report from Koeln (fwd) Just moving a post accidentally sent to hbd instead of homebrew. Respond to Alan... - -- Cheers! The Home Brew Digest Janitorial Staff - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:35:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com> To: hbd at hbd.org Subject: report from Koeln Hey folks, Been here about 5 days now doing some research, and am just loving it. Spent most of yesterday at the Erzquell Brauerei (Zunft Koelsch), Friday have an appointment at the Dom Brauerei, then next week at Peters. So far Ive tried Dom, Suenners, Gaffel, Zunft, Peters, Sion, Paeffgen, Kueppers, Frueh, Malzmuehle, Ganser, Garde, Reissdorf and I still need Giesler, Sester, Richmodis, Kuerfursten and Weissbraeu. I know there are a few more, and I'll try to track them down. Keep your eye on my webpage in a couple weeks when Im back for a full report with photos et al. Hi to all the HBD folks! cheers, -Alan - -- "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:38:14 +1000 From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au> Subject: More on extract ratings and gravity calculation This lather I am working myself into over extract rating etc. John Palmer, you have a lot to answer for! In my earlier posts I have wondered whether other Aussies use the pt gallon/lb system in their brewing calculations in any way. Do they use, or have a need for a metric equivalent? This was the thrust of John's original question to me. Anyway, by using brewing software, and taking typical grain extract numbers, I was suggesting it was something I had not really worried about or fiddled with. So, this got me thinking. Why not? Well firstly, why would we use it at all? Easy. To calculate the wort gravity for a brew. For this we need the parameters of mass of malt, extract rating of malt, volume of wort (post boiling and cooling), and extraction efficiency (i.e what percentage of the extract rating did you actually get). I supposed that the answer to why we don't fiddle with extract rating (if indeed *we* don't) lies in susceptibility of the various parameters to variation and sensitivity of the wort gravity to those variations. This led me to the rare act of whipping up a few numbers on a spreadsheet, plotting a couple of graphs, and otherwise frigging about. What I surprised myself with (not) was this. With all other parameters remaining constant, the wort gravity will vary 1.2 pts for a 1 pt change in extract efficiency and 3.5 pts for a 5% change in extraction efficiency. Also consider that it will vary by 3 pts for every 1/4 gallon (~1 L) that you are out with hitting the final wort volume. The interpretation. You need to be much more concerned with estimating your extraction efficiency correctly and hitting the right final wort volume than with what the grain extract rating is. That is assuming that it is not likely to vary by more than a point or so from the "rule of thumb" values. Another application is to back-calculate the grain extract rating. However, you need to know what the extraction efficiency was. And how confident can anybody be that they know their system's *actual* efficiency for a given brew within 1%???? Most efficiencies are calculate dbased on what we get based on an assumed grain extract rating. No? In other words, you can't really back-calculate in this way except under laboratory conditions where you get a known (100% extraction efficiency). Now, I know the above is going to be obvious and common sense to the majority of the advanced brewers and is probably covered in a million books (Home brewing 101?). And I don't quite know why I have chosen to parade my ignorance before you all. But hopefully these musings will be helpful to somebody (other than me). Cheers, Steve Lacey Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:48:25 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: The Word down under Brad McMahon wrote: - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know the type well. Have a chat to your local homebrew shop owner about the supermarket brewers who come into their stores. They usually come in because Woolworths have run out of something. They always beat their chests and say "Ah've been a brewer fer twenny years and you don't need all this junk (waving furiously at the shelves) ta make great beer. Ya know what ma secret is?? BROWN sugar. Ma dentist gave me that tip and it makes all thadifference!" Oooh I hate those meeces to pieces! I'm quite happy to tell them that, no, they haven't been brewing for 20 years, they made a kit ONCE and repeated themselves for 20 years; and no, you are not a brewer any more than I'm a chef when I reheat a frozen dinnerin the microwave! Sorry if I sound elitist but if you are going to bestow a title on yourself you have better done something to earn it. Phew! [rant mode off!] - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- On similar note to your story, the bloke who runs my local homebrew shop told me he had some dropkick come into his store, pick up a packet of bottlecaps, ranting and farting he proceeds to wave them in his face and say, whadya doin!... These caps cost me 60 cents less at Safeway! This meaning he can probably get his Wander Draught, kilo of generic cane sugar and caps for under you guessed it - 10 bucks! The afore-mentioned homebrew shop owner decides one Saturday morning to do his grocery shopping and surprise! surprise! happens to run into this same inbred $10 boofhead Charley who proceeds to run off and say wait I'll be back in a minute... He then comes back huffing and puffing, (with his can of Wander Draught and kilo of Safeway sugar) and says, look here's these bloody bottlecaps I was tellin ya about, see 6 bob cheaper!! Sorry this long winded, but bear with me, HERE COMES THE BEST PART!!! He then asks the afore-mentioned homebrew store owner for some advice on why his beer doesn't taste too good! Little ironic isn't it??? - Dirty bastard probably didn't buy any bleach, would of put his budget over 10 bucks wouldn't it. On a high note for these type of people though... The GST has put the price of kits down, particularly Wander Draught! Yummy! Yummy! So he doesn't have to cut down his fusel alcohol intake now or buy a gulp! Brigalow Kit! Yibbida, Yibbida... that's all folks! Warren L. White - Melbourne, Australia Allergic to Fusel Alcohol! and Wander Draught ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:36:07 -0400 From: "Henry St.Pierre" <hankstar at mhonline.net> Subject: Paranoid,ppppg confusion,SS stain,and Boulder >Casey C says " Or am I just being paranoid about bacteria..."> Casey, I wouldn't worry too much about the bacteria in your mouth for the most part (assuming normal hygiene and not too many bad habits). Philling the tube with water is quite easy. Hold both ends of the syphon (siphon) at the same level (easy if you hold both ends in the same hand) and use a hose or tap to fill it (use a little pressure). Keep both ends at the same level at all times. Either squeeze (or squeese (Au?)) or plug the outlet end while you shove (or insert) the inlet end into the fermenter or whatever. The trick is not to let the level at either end get out of balance. This is not a difficult thing to accomplish with very little practice. I can't help with the saliva looking stuff. Hopefully it wasn't green and sticky looking (couldn't resist it). >Steve Lacey asks about ppppg confusion> >Malt, sugar, rice etc have a rating for the contribution they make to >the gravity of the brew. In the US, it is measured in points (i.e. >hydrometer reading points on the scale of 1.000 to 1.100 or thereabouts) > per pound (of grain) per gallon (of wort). etc., etc. etc.> >My question was, are Aussie or other metrically advantaged brewers like >me in that they don't "give a rats arse" (thanks, Dave) about getting >this value right, or do they do conversions, test their grain, and >otherwise obsess about the actual versus potential extraction from >their grain? Most brewers don't really give a rat's ass (WTF is an arse) about those values because they are pretty much known quantities. If one has an accurate idea of his/her (I don't believe I did that) extraction rate, the the rule of thumb takes effect (so many whatevers of fermentables, and I do everything the same, equals so many whatevers of extraction). I realize (realise?) that any measuring system not based on decimal or the powers of 10 (isn't it the same thing?) can be confusing (or is it confuzing) in many parts of the world. Whatever measuring system is used, anal is anal. If I achieve 75% that is nice, if I achieve 85% that is nice too. If I achieve 100%, then I'm shit faced when I take the reading. In all cases the beer is good. I like Promash and it appears to be very accurate. >Bill wrote >subject: Cleaning SS brewpot >I'd like to thank all of the people who e-mailed me with solutions to my >scorched pot problem.... The most frequently recommended method was oven >cleaner, which I luckily already had in the house. Two overnight soaks, >followed by scrubbing with a SS scouring pad, removed all of the burnt-on >residue. A slight stain remains but I can live with that. I am also going >to refrain from brewing for a few weeks to let the stainless steel >passivate. Bill, lighten up. A slight stain will never hurt unless you come home late one evening and SWMBO notices it and doesn't believe you spilled a milkshake in your lap (I wonder what Phil tells Jill?). Next you'll start fretting about the the respective yield of various grains. >Eph Fithian asks >We are currently on vacation in Boulder, CO, waiting for the last >batch of homebrew to mature in Pennsylvania. Anything beerwise worth >visiting around Boulder? Try visiting Charlie P. If he's not home, the Coors Brewery is not too far away (Golden, Co.). Other than that, I can't think of anything to see or do in the beer capital of Colorado. Regards, Hank (having a bit of fun) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:54:47 -0700 From: "Seog Lee" <seoglee at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: whirlpool/first wort hopping/why aerate > Chas. Papazian recommends whirlpooling and siphoning off hot > break trub from > the wort while it is still hot, using a stainless cane rigged > with a copper > scrubber as a filter. He then recommends reboiling the dang > wort for a short > time to resanitize. Charlie Papazian has done a lot for the world of homebrewing, but he has also put a lot of crap out there. Brewers yeast does not respire aerobically in any phase of fermentation, and his "HBU" idea come to mind. Follow his directions, it will help you make a good beer, but don't take all the words as truth. Whirlpooling works great, and should be done routinely. If done properly, it will concentrate the trub to the center of the kettle, and help in racking off the wort with minimal loss. Something that Sierra Nevada and Pyramid routine do can't be all bad. - ---about first wort hopping--- >Improved hop character and smoother bittering. Explain? Isn't most hop character derived from volatile hop oils? Thus adding hops at the first pump over is a waste of your resources? You would be better served adding more late hops or dry hopping. - ---Why aerate?--- >I have seen in print and been told by knowledgeable people that after >transferring the wort to the primary fermentation vessel that I should >stir it or shake it to aerate prior to fermentation. Contrary to popular belief, brewers yeast do not aspire aerobically. They do not have a proper mitochondria. That's another discussion... But oxygen is an important factor in yeast health and reproduction. They use it in lipid formation. Without proper aeration, you can have sluggish or stuck fermentations, and even off flavor production (esters, higher alcohols, etc). >Then when transferring to a secondary or filling bottles I read and >heard that aeration is bad for the beer (final product). Is there a >hard and fast rule or do conditional statements apply? The yeast at that point is no longer interested in reproduction due to the excess population and lack of nutrients. Thus, the uptake of oxygen is less rapid, allowing for oxidation of the beer. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 05:39:32 -0400 From: fridgeguy at voyager.net Subject: Huge unhealthy fridge Greetings folks, In HBD #3407, Scott Morgan asked for help to diagnose his newly acquired "huge fridge". I don't have much info to work with so I'll stick to the basics. Be sure the compressor is running. It's possible for a fridge to sound like it's running when it actually isn't. Condenser and evaporator fans are often loud enough to mask compressor noise. I use a large screwdriver as a stethoscope by placing the driver bit end against the compressor "can" and put my ear to the handle. If the compressor is running, the thermostat and associated electrical bits are probably ok and either the system has a leak and has lost the refrigerant charge, or the compressor is simply worn out. If the fridge has a fan-cooled condenser, it's also possible to have a bad fan motor or dust bunnies in the condenser fins. If the compressor is not running, there is a problem with the thermostat or other electrical component, or the compressor motor is bad. If the fridge is a frost-free model, look for a defrost timer and manually advance it through a couple of cycles. There is usually a slot in the timer where a screwdriver can be inserted and turned to manually advance the timer. Timer failures are common. Check out the fridge with the info I've posted here and let us know what you find. Hope this helps! - ---------------------------------------------- Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridgeguy at voyager.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 07:53:35 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: mailorder brew shops I buy most of my brew gear local, especially whole sacks of grain and yeast but occassionally I get something mailorder that I can not find here or have ordered. I bought my mash tun and false bottom from homebrew adventures in NC. they were quick, cheap, and everything was good. I bought all my fridge door taps and some random crazy belgian specialty grains from brewers resource out in CA. quick, good, and free shipping on orders more than $50. I bought my grain scales, some hops, and some maris otter hugh baird grain from hoptech in CA. again, quick, good, and pretty reasonable shipping (free I think). MOst places limit the amount of grain you can get shipped if they have free shipping over a certain amount. 15 to 20 lbs worth usually still counts under free shipping. shipping sacks of grain can get prohibitively expensive for it tends to be $15 to 20 per sack. however, I keep considering it so I can get some Beestons Maris Otter to check out..... I'm brewing my rye ale today if the weather doesn't look pleasant for kayaking - some rye, some munich, tiny bit of crystal, mostly muntons pale grain. wyeast 1275 thames valley stepped up, and willamette hops to 40 IBU or so. it should be a good one for Indian summer nights in the fall here in upstate NY. Pete Czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:12:54 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: specialty grains and rogue While I do tend to limit my use of specialty grains, I have to admit that I agree with Aaron Perry about Rogue having some fantastic beers (don't know if they make many I don't like). Brutal Bitter is of course quite heavenly :) I think part of it is the skill that a brewer has in combining the best of complementary tastes or combining tastes that completely contradict each other in terms of helping the brew. Both are good when skillfully done. When done poorly, you just get a mouthfull of jumbled flavors that taste, well, yucky. For example great amounts of crystal in pale ales or huge amounts of black patent in stouts. Just not quite the right amount of the complementary flavors...... However, moderate these and they work perfectly. This tends to be why folks use little bits of everything (besides to clean out the cabinet which I tend to do every few months, especially for hops). Nothing like a little sweetness (crystal, carapils), little malt (munich), maybe some chocolate (obviously chocolate malt), in a browne ale or little raisin (special B) in a belgian strong, or perhaps even a hint of smokiness in a barley wine for complexity. Keep experimenting and for gods sake, make brews that you like at the very least. if others like them or you want to brew to style, thats okay too. Pete czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:42:17 -0400 From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.state.va.us> Subject: Re: Pap's bad info Brad McMahon from down under posted regarding: >> As much as Charlie P. gives us some misleading information >Actually he gives very little bad information and his books >have stood the test of time. The only one thing I can think of >is his use of those horrible glass carboys as primary fermenters. >Luckily they are as rare as hens teeth down here. My first 7 brews all had a "wet cardboard" off-taste after two weeks of bottle conditioning. I used Pap's suggested procedure of pouring hot wort from the boil kettle, through a funnel, into the carboy. The carboy had 2 gal cold water which mixed with the hot wort. I posted the problem to the HBD and received a reply from George & Lori Fix, suggesting that pouring the hot wort through the funnel and through the air was resulting in hot side aeration and causing the off taste. I changed that ONE aspect of my brewing procedure and cooled the wort in the kettle to 75F before transferr to the carboy (I used two 2 liter plastic bottles of water which I had pre frozen then sanitized in dilute chlorox) Result, no more "wet cardboard" off taste!! My beer tasted better than some brewpub offerings I had sampled. I was on my way! Bottom line, if I had not found the cause of the problem, which was the result of Pap's bad info, I probably would not have continued to brew! I too would have thought "homebrew tastes like shit". Mike Maag, Shenandoah Valley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:50:09 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Ayinger yeast "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> asked about the Ayinger yeast that's making such a hit is Australia: >any hope of getting that Ayinger yeast up to the US to WhiteLab or Wyeast >for propogating and distribution? Yeast Culture Kit Co. mailto:YCKCo at aol.com has had it, or at least a great lager yeast from Aying, for three years or so, although it isn't listed on their online catalog http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckco/yckcotbl.html. It's my favorite lager yeast by far. Dan McConnell, owner of YCKC and former HBDer (when his life wasn't so hectic) has been extremely busy with his day job as a reasearch scientist at University of Michigan and was way behind on yeast business, but I think he's caught up. Now I'm outa here to Cape Cod for a week, about 750 miles east Rennerian (or do I take 0,0 Rennerian with me?). Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 05:54:58 -0700 From: "Hull, Ted" <THull at Brwncald.com> Subject: In correction to what Mark said, I think Mort Subite is actually *northeast* of the Grand Place. If it's still there, Porte Noire was a really neat beer bar located in the basement of a building at 67 Rue Des Alexiens. If you're walking from the Grand Place, it's probably a 10 or 15 minute walk (you pass piss-boy, keep going, and then hang a left up the hill). And we wouldn't have made it there if it weren't for Peter at Delices et Caprices, which was a block off the Grand Place, to the southwest. Bear in mind, though, that my last visit was in 1998. Also, don't forget to have some pommes frites! There's something about those Belgian fries (probably lard) that makes them wonderful. We especially enjoyed the Sauce Andalouse, which is a spicy mayo-based sauce with tomatoes and pimento. The Sauce Americain, on the other hand, was a disappointment- almost a sarcastic interpretation of ketchup, but made with mayo. I thought http://www.iti.fr was real helpful in checking my directions, and there's an English option too (though I didn't see it until after I'd checked my directions for this). The (Java, I think) setup that scrolls the map in front of you was way cooler than Yahoo maps. Have fun! Ted Hull Atlanta, Georgia Return to table of contents
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