---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Calculating OG, extraction ratings, blah blah blah (John Palmer)
  Chlorine/Chloramine ("A. J.")
  alpha acid measurement ("patrick finerty jr.")
  boilovers ("Joe O'Meara")
  Re: Mail Order ("Glen Pannicke")
  Water (David Root)
  Decoction Challenge (Charley Burns)
  Will the real constant please stand up? (Jim Adwell)
  Air lock for 10 gallon batch (TPuskar)
  re: a hearty "Yee-haw".(complexity)/malt bills ("Stephen Alexander")
  Oxygen Ingress at Different Stages of Wort Production ("John or Barb Sullivan")
  Dusseldorf ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  Spreading spent grains and hops on lawn (EdgeAle)
  re: specialty grains and rogue ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: dirty bastards (Steve Lacey)
  Good lauter tun candidate ("Bill F")
  Captain! Newbie delurking off starboard bow! (TOLLEY Matthew)
  HB Shops / Pub request (Lance Levsen)
  Whirlpool ("Spies, Jay")
  Charlie vs Noonan ("Paul Niebergall")
  Sound Advice ("Paul Niebergall")
  Wyeast 2178 "Lager Blend?" (Bill.X.Wible)
  Re: Spreading spent grains and hops on lawn (Some Guy)
  Salt Lake City Brewpubs ("Whyman Dental Lab, Inc")
  Pearl Foam Beer ("Kevin Kutskill")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 07:32:54 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Calculating OG, extraction ratings, blah blah blah

Well Steve says I have a lot to answer for - stirring up this hornet's nest
of questions on recipe formulation. ;-)

Let me see if I can state it simply for you whingers out there that would
rather not think about what goes into the fermenter in terms of points per
pound per gallon.

For the rest of the world, Hot Water Extract seems to be the concentration
measurement of choice, and the units for the IoB version are liter degrees
per kilogram. HWE is a maximum yield rating determined by a laboratory mash,
meaning that brewers will only get a high percentage of that value under
real mash conditions. That percentage is a brewers extract efficiency,
typically 80-90%. And a typical base malt has a HWE of about 310 liter
degrees per kilogram.

So, a metric person says: I have 4 kg of 310 HWE malt, and I will make a 20
liter batch, and I typically have a mash efficiency of 85% and that gives me
an OG of .85 x 310 x 4 / 20 = 52.7 or a OG of 1.0527

Right?
 
Well, do you realize that if you take HWE and divide it by conversion
factors to US units: 2.2 pounds per kg, and 3.78 liters per gallon, then you
get Gallon Degrees per Pound? And that this dear friends is a nice way of
saying Points per Pound per Gallon?

Thus, if you take HWE and divide it by 8.3454 you get the maximum extract
rating in PPG. 

And to make the significance of this discussion a bit clearer, we in North
America typically don't talk about our efficiency ratings but instead just
include it. In other words, we take a maximum rating of 37 ppg multiply it
by 85% and get 30 ppg. So, when we PPGers talk about recipe formulation and
mash efficiency, we just say we are shooting for 30 ppg from the mash and
use that to figure our amounts. The HWE equivalent of 30 ppg is 250, by the
way.

If we want to brew a 1.050 IPA, we say how many pounds of malt will I need
at 30 ppg to yield 5 gallons of 1.050?
5 x 50 = 250 degrees total divided by 30 ppg = 8.33 pounds of malt

In summary, I am trying to point out that we all do it the same way, we just
use different units. And I apologize if I seemed patronizing, I just wanted
to make sure that I made it crystal clear. Brew On!



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Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 20:13:07 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Chlorine/Chloramine

RE: Domenick's post of the other day.
First off, thanks for the compliment!

I grant that you would think the AWWA would know about such things (and
said so in the quoted post) but in this case subsequent experimentation
showed them to be, well,  all wet. The experiments in the quoted post
belong in the "anecdotal" category but they were followed by more
extensive experiments which served as the basis for an article I wrote
for BT in its last year. I'll sumarize a few findings from those
experiments. First off, be aware that ammonia/chlorine chemistry is very
complex. Things happen which are not easily explained. For example, I
found that the cloramine that I produced by treating chlorine free water
with bleach and ammonia was very much more easy to remove thatn the
chloramine produced at the local water works by gassing first with
chlorine and then ammonia. There is no simple explanation for this but
phenomena of this sort are noted in the literature.

First, dichloramine and trichloramine are indeed very volatile and thus
tend to be completely absent from water when it reaches the consumer.
Monochloramine is not, in any experiment I did, more volatile than
uncombined chlorine. In experiments I did with standing water, chlorine
escaped a 10 gallon volume of water pretty completely in a couple of
days. With chloramine this method would take weeks to get to the same
level. If the water was circulated and aerated most chlorine would be
gone after about 12 hours. With chloramine about 90 hours would be
required. Thus standing with circulation and aeration is a possible
means of chloramine removal but probaly not the most convenient.

Boiling drives free chlorine off very quicky. The gas is gone by the
time the water reaches the boil so that it is not necessary to boil it
but rather just bring it to the boil. With chloramine a full hour or
more of boiling was found to be necessary depending on the source of the
chloramine. Thus boiling works with chloramine but again is not very
convenient.

The most convenient methods of chloramine removal are granulated active
carbon and chemical treatment. GAC filtration is relatively inexpensive
and effective but you do need to buy, install and service the filter.
Several sulfites will remove chloramine effectively without adding
significant ammounts of new ions to the water. Sodium thiosulfate
(photographer's hypo) will work but I recommend sodium or potassium
metabisulfite which is sold in brewing and winemaking shops as powder
and as "Campden Tablets" i.e. it's a readily available food grade
source. I Campden tablet should treat 20 gallons of water unless the
water authority is really loading it up. As a simple test, if it still
smells chlorine-like, there's still un-neutralized chloramine.



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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:02:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: alpha acid measurement

hi folks,

i've read that HPLC and/or spectrophotometry are accepted methods for
determining the amount of alpha acids in beer. spec measurements are
apparently made on toluene/MeOH extracted beer. what wavelength is
standard for the procedure? also, what is generally used for a
standard for these measurements? i assume such standards can be
purchased or at least the components purchased so that i could make
them myself. no doubt test runs using commercial brews with known IBU
levels would be useful.

while HPLC is certainly more rigorous, i'm really not into spending
the time on our HPLC to do this. i'm also not willing to risk our
columns by pumping my beer or extracts thereof through them.

basically what i'd like is an accepted protocol for measurement of
alpha acid content by spectrophotometry as well as some idea about how
to convert absorbance values to IBU values.

cheers,

patrick in toronto
- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		      http://www.finerty.net/pjf


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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:49:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joe O'Meara" <drumthumper_2000 at yahoo.com>
Subject: boilovers

I brewed an APA yesterday, and had a boilover in my
converted keg (1/2 bbl).  This is the first time that
I have had this happen (in my keg anyway).  Is this
normal?  FWIW, I have done 3 weizens in the keg also,
and they didn't boil over.


TIA,

Brewing where half the state is on fire,

=====
Joe O'Meara
Mad Dwarf Brewery (AKA my kitchen and coat closet)
ICQ # 60722006
http://homebrew.4mg.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/


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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:44:34 -0400
From: "Glen Pannicke" <glen at pannicke.net>
Subject: Re: Mail Order

After hearing of some of the poor customer service available at other
on-line homebrew suppliers, I feel that I must post some of the web sites
which I have had positive experiences with.  I have no affiliation with any
of them, but good service deserves a good word.  And they don't spam the
digest with their plugs either...

Brewer's Resource
http://www.brewtek.com/

Northern Brewer
http://www.northernbrewer.com/welcome.htm

Beer, Beer and More Beer
http://www.morebeer.com/

Homebrew Adventures
http://www.homebrewadventures.com/index.shtml

I only use the on-line resources when my local homebrew shop has an
outrageous price or just doesn't have what I need.  I may be a cheap bastard
, but I like to support my local shop owner for the bulk of my purchases -
even if it costs a little more.

Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato



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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 15:12:06 -0400
From: David Root <droot at buffnet.net>
Subject: Water

Howdy Folks,

I have been brewing all grain for the last 5 years.
I moved recently, and have a well.  The water is
"hard"  I have a bunch of off white stuff in my hot
water heater.  Chunks big enough to plug the 1/2"
valve for the drain.  I need CLR or a strong acid to
clean my tub and other porcelain fixtures.  My first brew,
I checked the PH with a liquid solution.  It was really
green.  Maybe 9 or 10.  I added lactic acid.  First 2.5
ml like I used to with city water and no change.  I was up
to 70 ml, and still green. I kept adding until I used what
was left of the bottle.  Probably
two ounces for 14 gals of sparge water.  It ended up still
green.  Maybe 7 or 8.  I am drinking the beer, and it is
pretty good but not quite right.   I hopped the hell out of it.
 A total of 7 ounces of hops including 2 oz FWH.
Not high alpha though, 4 for
the Saaz, and about the same for Hallertau.  I ended up
with 10 gallons of decent beer. Should I add more acid
next time?  The mash was right on at 4 to 5.  I tried not
to sparge too much because of the high ph water.
I have tried to find a place to send a sample, but have
had no luck yet.  Please help if you can.  I have been
reading the Digest for 7 or 8 years now.  Its different
now than it used to be, but I still like it.

Thanks

D. Root     Medina NY



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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:11:29 -0700
From: Charley Burns <cburns99 at pacbell.net>
Subject: Decoction Challenge

Since I'm such a lazy guy, I'd like to take this award winning brew and
remove the double decoction steps and reduce this from a 7 hour brew down to
maybe 5 hours. I just don't believe that I can get the flavors that I'm used
to though. This beer is extremely close to  Spaten Optimator. In fact if you
mix a Salvator and Optimator together, this is about the flavor and body you
get from this beer.

Please - anybody - tell me how to change the recipe, keep the flavor/body
profile the same and eliminate the double decocation (process described
below the ingredients):

Grist:
  1.00	lb.	Cara-Pils
  1.25	lb.	Cara-Vienne
  0.25	lb.	Chocolate
  7.00	lb.	Lager 2-Row (DWC Pils)
  8.00	lb.	Munich Light (DWC)
  1.00	lb.	Vienna
  0.75	lb.	Wheat

Hops:
 1.50	oz.	Hallatauer     	 3.7%	60 min
 1.00	oz.	Tettnanger     	 4.4%	10 min

Grist/Water Ratio: 1 quarts/pound (thick due to limitation of mash tun size)

Munich Wyeast 2308 - 2 quart starter

Double Decoction.
15 min at 134F
pull half the mash to decoction (thick)
10 minutes to raise up to 158F
45 minute rest at 158F
Boil for 20 minutes
BAck to rest mash at 158F for 45 minutes
Pull a third of the mash (thin)
Boiled for 20 minutes
Returned to rest mash at 170F
Sparged with 185F 6 gallons
7.5 gallons wort, Final Runnings 1.020
90 minute boil
Ferment at 50F for 3 weeks
Diacetyl Rest for 2 days at 65F
Lager at 35F for 30 days
Force Carbonate

OG 1.092
FG 1.021

So, how can a recipe formulation change eliminate all this labor?

Charley



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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 15:35:11 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: Will the real constant please stand up?

While fooling around with my brewing software, I decided to add a "%
alcohol by volume" display box to it.  Searching the net and some books, I
found the formula:

(OG-FG) * a constant, henceforth known as 'K'

or

(OG-FG) / the inverse of K (1/K)

where OG and FG could be specific gravity, 'points', or degrees Plato, with
an appropriate value of K for each.   For simplicity, I converted all the
formulas I found to the same form ( although most were already) :

(OG-FG) * K,  where OG and FG are expressed as specific gravity, for
example: (1.050 -1.012).

I found 5 webpages with the calculation before I gave up.  In each case K
was different:

135.86
131.25
132.3
133.33
135

Now these numbers all give similar answers, for example (1.050 -1.012) * K :

5.16%
4.99%
5.03%
5.07%
5.13%

rounded off, so I could just pick one, or average them, and be close
enough, I suppose.  But I'd like to find out what the real constant K is.
Does anyone know?

Cheers, Jim

Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 21:15:04 EDT
From: TPuskar at aol.com
Subject: Air lock for 10 gallon batch

I've managed to obtain 2 10 gallon carboys and am planning to make at least 
one 10 gallon batch now that I don't have to split it for the secondary.  My 
question is this.  Can I safely use a "standard" airlock of will I be 
possibly be generating too much gas and pop the top?  Should I resort to a 
wide diameter tubing and overflow style lock?  Any info would be welcome.

Thanks,

Tom Puskar
Howell, NJ


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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 07:12:42 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: a hearty "Yee-haw".(complexity)/malt bills

Brian Lundeen comments

> > I dimly recall  two in balance, one in background.
> >
>Not quite following you here. Is the one in background referring to a
>bittering hop, or a less dominant character hop?

Early hops additions do unquestionable impact flavor in addition to
providing the bulk of bittering.  What I am referring to is a balance of the
resulting flavors & aromas, primarily, but not exclusively from the late
additions.  EKG and Fuggles are a classic example  where a balanced pairing
is (IMO) better than either alone, but we've all probably had many  ales
made with these.  Adding a third hop aroma/flavor in the  background can put
a new spin on this classic combo.  You have to consider the aroma/flavor
strength, not just the amount of hops.

>What constitutes a balance
>between two hop varieties? Is it that their characteristics are meshing, as
>perhaps a Saaz-Tettnang pairing might, or are you talking about something
>else?

It's the flavor characteristics and not the hop varieties we are trying to
balance.  In the saaz-tettnager pairing you suggest I can see that certain
aspects would mesh well, saaz w/ it's spicey high-tone character and
tettnager with more (what is the right description?) mouthwatering fullness.
It's pretty easy to imagine a balanced mix of these two where both
characteristics are evident, but neither is clearly dominant.   That is
balance.  The latest edition of JIB (v1006,pp157-161) has a paper by Kirin
Brewing in which they analyze the 'Genetic Distance' between 51 hop
varieties.  Saazer and Tettnanger (along with hersbrucker, lublin,
northdown, progress, spalter, spalter select, strisselspalt) end up in the
same broad category.  An interesting example, Ultra is a cross of
hallertuaer&saaz and shows both characteristics, but IMO the saaz-like
spiciness dominates.

It's also (IMO) possible to get a balance between more similar (flavorwiise)
types of hops, even between two variants of Fuggles, but it takes a bit more
thought and maybe experimentation about what contrasting elements are to be
balanced and where a good balance lies.  I personally find it difficult to
imagine a good balance between the wildly different, e.g. Cascades and
H.Mittelfruh.  Can you really get both a restrained American hops flavor and
that H.M. refined 'body' and do they 'work' together ?   But like the
N.African sauce someone has probably done this and *may* have a great
pairing (or a real loser).
- --

>Mash hopping is reported by our good friends at Paddock Wood to impart
>similar character, but you are not getting a full dose of these hop's IBU's
>because they don't make it into the kettle. They estimate 10% of what FWH
>would yield for IBU.

Hmmm - I suppose if you mash-hopped and decocted ....

 -S





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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 09:50:19 -0500
From: "John or Barb Sullivan" <sullvan at anet-stl.com>
Subject: Oxygen Ingress at Different Stages of Wort Production

Does anyone have any solid LITERARY information (I know this will upset the
book burners) on oxygen ingress at various stages of the wort production
process?   Steve Michalak of A-B has stated that they intentionally aerate
the near boiling wort by injecting air into the wort as it falls down a
very tall column.  This aeration actually scrubs certain undesirable
constituents from the wort.  He also stated that at these temperatures,
oxygen ingress is minimal and what is taken up is soon consumed by the
yeast.  He also stated that wort is most susceptible to hot side aeration
at other stages (lower temps) of the wort production process such as
mashing and lautering.  Is it a coincidence that so many brewers who
started with Charlie's method of pouring near boiling wort through the air
and through a funnel into cold water could still brew a decent beer that
didn't taste like cardboard?   I'm not saying that homebrewers should
deliberately aerate the near boiling wort but perhaps its time to get a
handle on when the wort is most susceptible to HSA.  This has a deliberate
bearing on most procedures and processes used by homebrewers.

George Fix:  Before I go back to Michalak again, do you have any comments?

John Sullivan
St.Louis, MO











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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:47:19 -0400
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at mediaone.net>
Subject: Dusseldorf

While in Dusseldorf go to Uerige and the Fuchschen (Fox), but also be sure
to go down to the Rhine in the Altstadt- there is a long tent where many of
the local breweries serve their beers.  Since Alt is typically served in 0.2
or 0.3 liter glasses, it is easy to try them all.  Alt has a wide range of
flavors that you would miss by focusing on just the highest rated ones.

Reif Hammond



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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:22:45 EDT
From: EdgeAle at cs.com
Subject: Spreading spent grains and hops on lawn


HBD,

I am currently house-shopping and will have a lawn for the first time. I have 
been wondering about spreading my spent grains around the lawn as fertilizer. 
Has anyone years of experience doing this and any advice?

Are the grains spread wet or allowed to dry a bit?
Should piles of grain be spread at the base of plants? (like hop bines which 
I will be able to grow with a yard!)
Does the pH of the grains affect the grass?
How long does it take for the grains to break down? More to the point how 
often can I brew and do this? 
What about spent hops?

Thanks for any practical advice I can get which will help answer SWMBO's 
questions when she catches me doing it.

Dana Edgell
- ------------------------------------------
Edge Ale Brewery, San Diego
http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle


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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 10:18:03 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: specialty grains and rogue

Pete Czerpak (and others note ...

>While I do tend to limit my use of specialty grains, I have to admit that I
>agree with Aaron Perry about Rogue having some fantastic beers [...]
>. Brutal Bitter is of course quite heavenly

Yeah - I like Rogue beers very much too, but they are not exactly subtle and
well balance like Spaten or Fuller's or Ayinger products.  They are big
over-the-top flavored beers.  It's like the difference between 5-alarm chili
and a fine bolito misto.  Of course the ultimate in simplicity is a pils
like PU  where a magnificent hops and an excellent malt sit with a modest
yeast component - nowhere to hide a flaw there.  Lambics hit the other end
of the complexity scale, tho often with much of that complexity from
fermentation products.

>When done poorly, you just get a mouthfull of jumbled flavors that taste,
>well, yucky.  For example great amounts of crystal in pale ales or huge
>amounts of black patent in stouts.

Right but those are basic amateur mistakes.

>However, moderate these and they work perfectly.

Yes, but I'd suggest that even when you get the amounts in range there is
still a balancing that needs to be done.

>This tends to be why folks use little bits of everything
>[...] Nothing like a little sweetness (crystal, carapils),
>little malt (munich), maybe some chocolate (obviously chocolate malt), in a
>browne ale or little raisin (special B) in a belgian strong, or perhaps
even
>a hint of smokiness in a barley wine for complexity.

OK, but I don't want all of these in each beer - too tiresome.

There are definitely are a wide range of specialty malt flavors, and Al
Korzona's book 'Homebrewing: Vol I' is the only good descriptive source I am
aware of for many of these.  You can definitely make good tasting beers like
Rogue with big specialty malt additions, but a more subtle touch is, more
effective at achieving complexity and balance and drinkability.

Drinkability - I find many higher grav and particularly high-crystal content
sweet beers rather off-putting after the 1st pint (especially in warm
weather).  Great first impression, but they don't always leave me wanting
more.  Good if you want to win a contest, but not for everyday drinking.   I
do like Rogue products, and some of the overhopped beers too, but if I had
to choose say 3 beers only for the rest of my life they wouldn't make the
cut.

 -S




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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:37:32 +1000
From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: re: dirty bastards

My compatriots Brad and Warren are working themselves up into quite a frenzy
about kit brewers. Well, not just any ol' kit brewers, but the cheap and
nasty ones who rarely buy ingredients from anywhere but a supermarket. And
in particular, verbally abuse the hard-working homebrew shop owner who
cannot help but have a higher price due to overhead structures etc. I quote
from Warren "He then asks the afore-mentioned homebrew store owner for some
advice on why his beer doesn't taste too good!
    Little ironic isn't it??? - Dirty bastard probably didn't buy any 
bleach, would of put his budget over 10 bucks wouldn't it."

Guys, I know what you are saying. But we have to take a stance more along
the lines of missionaries amongst savages than this abusive tone. The "dirty
bastard" is really just a lost soul. A poor ignorant savage who must be
brought into the fold. Sure he could learn some manners and basic principles
of retail pricing, but the real "dirty bastards" are the kit manufacturers
and retail outlets which conspire to conceal all knowledge of a more
enlightened approach to brewing. There are so many retail  home brew outlets
that actually push kits and little else. And so few quality shops that cater
for for the "doin' it from scratch" folks (g'day Regan and Mel). And don't
blame the poor ignorant man in the street for the fact that the kit mfrs
have deals to put their products on supermarket shelves at discounted
prices. They have adopted this 10-bucks-a-brew  approach as a mantra instead
of endeavouring to educate their customers to a higher investment=higher
quality approach. OK, so its a free country and free enterprise is the order
of the day. BUT, it just shits me when big guys from the kit industry go so
far as to denigrate mash brewing and deny its legitimate place in the home
beer making hobby. And believe me, they do.

So spread the gospel of quality beer making to the unenlightened, and fight
the forces of darkness that conspire to repress our side of the hobby. God
knows, it took me the best part of 7 or 8 years to discover a world beyond
kits.

Cheers,

Steve Lacey
Sydney






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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:45:32 -0700
From: "Bill F" <rwfishbu at nospam.home.com>
Subject: Good lauter tun candidate

I want to build a lauter tun from an insulated beverage cooler.  I've looked
at several igloos, but the outlets seem pretty high from the bottom of the
cooler (~2").  I could always go this route, but it seems like it'll leave
quite a bit of wort in the bottom, even with agressive tipping.

Can anyone help with either a)candidate brand and model number with an
outlet-to-bottom distance of <1" or b)a source for good plans for an
easy-to-build lauter tun?

Thanks,
Bill Fishburn
Lacey, WA



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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:13:30 +1000
From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au>
Subject: Captain! Newbie delurking off starboard bow!

</lurk>

Hi all

Brace yourselves - it's all beer related, and it's from an Aussie. :).
Sorry for the long post, but after seeing my first 'real' brew bubbling away
this morning, I feel the need to blubber uncontrollably and hand out cigars!

I've been lurking for a while now, having decided to give this whole
homebrew thing one last try.  Both of my previous attempts were in my uni
days, when the height of Aussie homebrew sophistication seemed to be using a
kilo of raw sugar instead of white sugar in your brew :).  While there were
probably seasoned brewers doing more exciting stuff (I remember a guy in
Engineering who was widely denouced as a heretic needing crucifixion for
mixing two kits together and *gasp* using no sugar at all!), back in those
days before the Web (Gopher, anybody?) there wasn't really any way for me to
find out about it.

After wandering (pun intended, fellow 'strayians) around my local Big W a
few months back, I was amazed at how sophisticated brewing had become. Stop
groaning - newbie here!  Cool - with half a kilo of this beaut dextrose
stuff, half a kilo of raw sugar and one of these flash-looking kits I'll be
knocking up beer as good as anything at The Wig and Pen!

Fortunately, I happened to pick up a copy of Laurie Strachan's 'Complete
Guide to Homebrewing in Australia 2nd Ed', and found out that I knew
absolutely nothing about anything before I did something embarassing :).

I found that extract brewing seemed to have jumped light years from 'add two
litres boiling water, add one kilo white sugar, top up to 22 litres, add
yeast'.  There were so many techniques I simply hadn't heard of - hot and
cold breaks, steeping specialty grains, adding your own hops, using unhopped
extracts, oxygenating your wort, using yeast starters, and so on.  And the
science - IBUs, o Lovibond, alpha acids, attenuation!  And ye gods - what
was this all-grain witchcraft?  Surely this went out with Prohibition
bathtub brewing and stills in your shed?

I rushed out to try some of these foreign brews. The extent of my palate
development was Corona, Coopers and DAB at Oktoberfest!  Shock horror -
Tooheys Pils isn't, and neither is Fosters Special Bitter!  I actually know
what hops and malt taste like now :)

On to the net, where I found John Palmer's simply amazing howtobrew.com.
Fellow lurkers, John's guide is your Bible - seek him out, open his virtual
skull and feast on the goo within :).

Off to my local (well, only actually, unless you count those Butts 'n' Brew
joints) brew shop, BrewYaOwnAtHome.  Culture shock - not a Wander kit in
sight :).  After ooh-ing and ah-ing over the shiny kegs in the glass-doored
fridge (and getting a swift kick from SWMBO - 'don't even think about it!'),
staring goggle-eyed at the various demijohns filled with exotic-looking
yeast starters, and marvelling at the sheer flow of human traffic cheerfully
talking about stuff like whizzing up a Newcastle nut brown ale like they do
it in their sleep, I was intercepted by brewmaster Colin (I'd say the drool
on my chin gave me away as fresh meat).

Colin seemed perfectly happy to answer my endless stream of inane questions
('do you have hops?') :).  We decided I should 'keep it simple, stupid' and
start with a modified kit or simple extract recipe til I had my basic
techniques like sanitation down pat.  After another week of procrastinating,
I decided to start with the eteemed Mr Palmer's first pale ale recipe in his
other masterpiece, 'How To Brew Your First Beer Rev. F'.  With a few kilos
of hopped extract (read, two cans of Coopers IPA) and a shiny new 19-litre
brewpot, I was away!

John's instructions made it a breeze - all was as he foretold.  A thick,
frothy hot break (well, I assume it was the hot break, anyway!), a quick
wort cooling, and much aggressive splashing about, my frothy 30-minute
Nottingham ale starter was pitched at a perfect 20oC.  More shaking about -
it was starting to look like Guinness in there - and in with the airlock.  A
short time later, I heard that sweet 'bloop...bloop...bloop' sound from the
cupboard. :)

Enough blubbering - questions!!

When I picked up the fermenter to move it to its dark, warm resting place,
there was a change in pressure, and I think some of the 4ml bleach/litre
water sanitising solution I'd put in the airlock was sucked in to the brew.
Should I be worried?  It doesn't seem to have hurt the yeast any - I'm more
worried about off flavours.

I took my OG hydrometer reading from the spigot at the bottom of the
fermenter after I'd pitched my yeast and agitated the wort.  I thought it
seemed a little high - 3.4kg/7.5lbs of hopped extract in 23 litres/6 gallons
of water at 19oC/66.2oF with no other adjuncts read a whopping 1.062!  Seems
to be within 'normal' ranges for an IPA (1.050 - 1.065, according to
'Complete Guide to Homebrewing'), but it still has me a little worried.
Could the reading have been high because I took it from the bottom of the
fermenter after pitching/aerating insted of before like the instructions
clearly said? :)

What does a 'cold break' look like?  Does a froth form on the surface of the
cooling brew and then slowly disappear like a hot break?  What do the
precipitating proteins look like in either break?  Specks?  Strands?  Globs?
All I saw was a rolling black liquid, then a big-arsed white foam, then more
rolling black :).

I'm not racking to a secondary for my first brew.  Is it possible to safely
bulk-prime a primary before bottling?  How would I go about it?  Does an FG
reading have any effect on deciding how much sugar you should use to prime?

Is dry yeast susceptible to contamination?  I snipped the packets with
unsanitised scissors. :(

When cooling the wort (ice in a sink with a tap gushing icy cold Canberra
water all over one side of the pot - worked a treat!), I was stirring it
quite a bit.  Is it safe to splash a little at this stage (it was pretty
aggressive stirring), or is it a no-no until it's cooled below 26oC/80oF?

I'm not a big beer drinker.  One every now and then is plenty for me - I'm
in it for the alchemy :).  I'd prefer to have small quantities of a variety
of beers so I can choose something to suit the food/occasion than a large
volume of a couple of beers.  Can you brew smaller (say, 11.5 litre/2.5
gallon) batches just by halving the recipe?

Cheers!
 ...Matt...


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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:42:41 -0600
From: Lance Levsen <l.levsen at printwest.com>
Subject: HB Shops / Pub request 

"Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>     Sorry this long winded, but bear with me, HERE COMES THE BEST PART!!!
>     He then asks the afore-mentioned homebrew store owner for some advice on 
> why his beer doesn't taste too good!
>     Little ironic isn't it??? - Dirty bastard probably didn't buy any 
> bleach, would of put his budget over 10 bucks wouldn't it.
>     On a high note for these type of people though... The GST has put the 
> price of kits down, particularly Wander Draught! Yummy! Yummy! So he doesn't 
> have to cut down his fusel alcohol intake now or buy a gulp! Brigalow Kit!
> 

Hear, Hear.

I recently found myself explaining this to people.

The good local shop (http://www.paddockwood.com/ for those of you looking for
mail order), no affiliation other then satisfied customer) can _tell_ me how to
figure a decoction, or what Bisquit is going to taste like . . . or a myriad of
other details. I am more then willing to pay extra for information. Any "Joe"
can sell commodities, only experts can sell knowledge.

On another note: A trip is about to be undertaken into the BC Rockies Region.
We will be exploring the Cranbrook -> Nelson -> Revelstoke -> Golden  square
and would like to get any info w/ regard to Micro's or Brewpubs worth seeing/
tasting. Any help is appreciated and TIA.

Cheers,


- -- 
Lance Levsen, Programmer
Product Innovation
PWGroup - S'toon.
477-3166



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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:52:39 -0400
From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>
Subject: Whirlpool

All -

Several on the HBD have voiced disagreement with my contention that hot wort
shouldn't be whirlpooled, some rather vehemently so.  Well, okay then.  My
definition of whirlpool (when I wrote the post) was a *vigorous* stirring,
not a gentle circular motion.  The comments disagreeing with me said that
gentle stirring of the hot wort is okay and is routinely done.  Fine with
me.  I was simply trying to discourage people from whipping the hot wort
around like a crazed lunatic trying to get a good vortex going.  

If people want to stir the hot wort, or siphon it, or reboil it, or do naked
pygmy ritual dances around it while in full scuba garb, go for it.  To each
his own.  For my part, I tend to let the wort cool and settle more because
I'm lazy than anything else.  I clean and put away all my brewing gear while
the wort is settling out, and after a half hour, I just open the valve and
drain off the then crystal clear wort.  That's what works for me.  I'll
certainly agree that gently stirring the hot wort is fine.  Not what I do,
but then again, I'm sure many people make far better beer than I do, too.  

Save the salt for Papazian.

Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
Baltimore MD


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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:49:51 -0500
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject: Charlie vs Noonan

Brian Lundeen writes:

>Bob, you have many questions but I think they can all be 
>answered with a simple: ignore Papazian. As I said, I've 
>never read him, so I can't comment on his rationale, but 
>I've never heard of a homebrewer doing this. 

Now there is some sound advice.   With all due respect, 
if you have not read the Papazian, then you really have 
no basis to pass judgement of that kind.   Sure Charlie has 
written some things that are questionable, but 99 percent 
of the stuff is good sound advice and highly usable.  
Oh yeah, sure there is the infamous picture of the hot 
wort straining fiasco.  BFD!  Take a look at the costumes 
the that the two characters are wearing in the picture.  
Note the modern decor of the kitchen that they are 
standing in.  It was 1972 (guessing) for God's sake.  I 
think we have all learned a lot more about brewing 
since then.

And whoever wrote the following:

> Chas. Papazian recommends whirlpooling and 
>siphoning off hot break trub from the wort while 
>it is still hot, using a stainless cane rigged with a 
>copper scrubber as a filter. He then recommends 
>reboiling the dang wort for a short time to resanitize.

I looked through my Papazian collection this last 
weekend and could not find the part were he 
recommends re-boiling the wort after whirlpooling.  
Maybe I am missing it.  Can somebody tell me what 
book and what page this advice appears.  Even if 
he does say this somewhere, I doubt it is a 
"recommendation".  It is a viable option to re-boil 
the wort if you are that worried about contamination.  
Considering the extreme effort that a lot of people 
go to to make home brew that you read about here, 
t's not that crazy of an idea.

Maybe we should all ignore Noonan too. Doesnt he 
write extensively about decoction mashing?  With 
the recent thread on the almost non-existent effects 
of decoction mashing, it seems like Noonan is 
recommending an awful lot of extra effort for relatively 
no gain.  Should we automatically throw his work out too?

Paul Niebergall



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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:54:06 -0500
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject: Sound Advice

Seog Lee writes concerning Charlie Papazian:

>Follow his directions, it will help you make a good beer, 
>but don't take all the words as truth.

Finally some sound advice on the Papazian thread. 
Wait a minute.  Come to think of it, shouldnt we follow 
the exact same advice for EVERYTHING that we read about 
home brew?  Especially what is written in the HBD? 
Sounds like this puts Charlie in the same boat as anybody 
else.

Paul Niebergall



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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:52:31 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Wyeast 2178 "Lager Blend?"



Anybody ever used Wyeast 2178 "Lager Blend"?  Looking for any experience
with this yeast, results, what kind of beer it would be best used in, etc.

Thanks.

Bill




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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:28:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Spreading spent grains and hops on lawn


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Dana Edgel writes...

> I am currently house-shopping and will have a lawn for the first time. I have 
> been wondering about spreading my spent grains around the lawn as fertilizer. 
> Has anyone years of experience doing this and any advice?

I do this. I've also spread the spent grains in Kim's flowerbeds - looks
like a nice sawdust mulch.

> Are the grains spread wet or allowed to dry a bit?

Wet. If you let them "dry", you'd better spread them thin. I made the
mistake of leaving my brewery to clean overnight. Well, overnight became a
couple of days and --- Peeeeeeeeeyou! Made the local landfills smell like
expensive eau de toilet. I noticed the sme in "clumps" of spent grain I
dumped in the compost heap. They smell horribly when broken open.

> Should piles of grain be spread at the base of plants? (like hop bines which 
> I will be able to grow with a yard!)

Eww! Never in piles. See above. If you do, turn them often. Like hourly...

> Does the pH of the grains affect the grass?

Haven't noticed any detriment. I did note that weeds spring up heartily
in the bald spots after having been "treated" with spent grains.

> How long does it take for the grains to break down? More to the point how 
> often can I brew and do this? 

Disappear to my untrained eyes in a week or two. I brew sometimes twice a
weekend, but been a pretty consistent once a week lately. Spread the
grains on the lawn each and every time.

> What about spent hops?

I feed them to the plants alongside the house, or I throw them out.
Haven't really looked at them in terms of the lawn or how long they take
to decompose. Sorry...

Tips: If you're grains aren't thoroughly sparged, beware the bumblebee and
other sweet-loving insects that will descend on your property like the
biblical plague of locusts. If your grains aren't fully converted in the
mash, avoid piling the grains up in one spot or flies will descend upon
your property like the biblical plague of locusts, as will neighbors who
are offended by the ensuing stench. Break up any clumps in lawn-spread
spent grains for the same reason. I have used a "whirlybird" hand-held
broadcast spreader to dispense the grains; however, in my recent laziness,
I just scoop and fling. Any clumps disintegrate under the force of a
well-placed kick...

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:08:09 -0600
From: "Whyman Dental Lab, Inc" <whymandl at milehigh.net>
Subject: Salt Lake City Brewpubs

I'll be in Salt Lake next month and would like some advice on local
brewpubs. My wife will be along, so good food and service will also be
important.
Private emails are fine.
Thanks in advance,
Roger Whyman
Englewood, CO



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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:36:59 -0400
From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at home.com>
Subject: Pearl Foam Beer

Okay, time to find out who knows their history.  Any one out there have any
information, pictures, recipe hints, etc. regarding Pearl Foam Beer?  It was
made in the early 1900's by Mount Clemens Brewing Company, in Mount Clemens,
Michigan.  Our homebrew club is has been asked to do a demonstration brew
and provide as much information as possible on this beer for the Bath City
Festival this weekend in Mount Clemens.  Any information will be helpful.

TIA,

Kevin A. Kutskill
President
CRAFT (Clinton River Association of Fermenting Trendsetters)
beer-geek at home.com



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