---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  re: Cost of beer (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Re: Cost of beer (Lance Levsen)
  Re: Kit beers and Mashing (Lance Levsen)
  Re: FWH (Lance Levsen)
  Price of Beer (Ant Hayes)
  Some quick responses. ("Graham Sanders")
  Survivor and 'lympics (LyndonZimmermann)
  Names, Names, We Need Names! ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Making your own specialty grains (Brad McMahon)
  siphoning and Vegemite (Edward Doernberg)
  Yeast buffers, Hops and pH, Decocting HSA, Soft and RO water (Dave Burley)
  Flaked vs. Whole Rice (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
  cleaning stainless... ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  Brussels Stops ("Bill Coleman")
  re: beer prices in Canada ("Brian Lundeen")
  Re: Brussles Beer, Falstaff ("John S. Watson")
  Low TG (Aaron Perry)
  Books ("Leland Predon")
  Beer prices (Canada) and reasons for brewing (RiedelD)
  Re: Lemon (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Boulder (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Etching beer glasses (stencil)
  Beer Prices in Australia ("Warren White")
  Rennerian Coordinates ("Jason Henning")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:37:52 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report
     Whilst in an investigational study involving yeast nutrients, I have
come across certain brewing practices, that while legal, do involve certain
risks to consumers...and IMHO, to the reputation of the industry.
     The practice involves using urea as a yeast nutrient. Noting that all I
can find on government web sites declares that this is a legal product when
used as an adjunct to brewing practice, it has certainly garnered serious
attention from my technical superiors in Europe...after I forwarded copies
of certain reports from breweries....to wit....

     "Please inform this brewer that urea based products are banned
throughout
most of the World for beverage alcohol. They produce ethyl carbamates which
are CARCINOGENIC.
     Tell him to get off using UREA IMMEDIATELY!
     This is a NO NO"

     "To give you some perspective on urea in fermented beverages, about ten
years ago
it was found that ethanol will react with urea to produce ethyl carbamate
which is a known carcinogen. This led to number of well known fermented
beverages, notably wine based, being withdrawn from the marketplace. It was
also found that some yeasts may excrete urea during discrete parts of the
fermentation cycle which could lead to Eth Carb formation. The work was all
done at UCD. Urea is specifically banned by a number of countries for
potable alcohol production and if not banned by the rest would not be viewed
as being "good" or "sanitary" practice. It depends how they police their
food laws. In the UK there are very few practices specifically banned as
the onus is on the producer to use due diligence to ensure a wholesome
production and end product.
     Two years ago one kit manufacturer in the UK was found to be using urea
in a
nutrient mix for high alcohol Alco-pops. Urea is easily the best yeast
nutrient but---------. The Ministry of Food and Fisheries (MAFF) tried to
get
him to see sense, they are after all only gentlemen, but the idiot tried to
argue scientifically that ethyl carbamate had not been found in any of the
kits he had had fermented under test conditions. MAFF replied that he could
not guarantee that the customer would follow to the letter the instructions
and therefore he, the kit manufacturer, could not GUARANTEE the absence of
Eth Carb. They then threatened to interdict sales of all his kits pending
scientific tests and a legal prosecution as well as publicity concerning the
same. He, single handedly, almost killed homebeer and homewine making in the
UK. He was nearly lynched by the other kit makers."

     So, Fellow Brewers, while I don't claim to supercede the wisdom of the
FDA, nor ATF...on whose sites I can only find approval, I would suggest that
any brewers using urea seriously re-think this practice. I am also informed
that this is forbidden in, or at least not approved in wine making in the
US.
     Certainly, I had no exposure to this product in the past, hence this
was all news to me.
     Perhaps some of you have more information? If this is already well
known and documented in this country, I would appreciate any input from this
side of the pond.
     Lord knows, the neo-prohibitionists don't need any more ammunition....

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Lallemand
brewer at isunet.net
jethro at isunet.net
gump at jethrogump.com

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"





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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:10:30 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at aus.sun.com>
Subject: re: Cost of beer

To offer the price on the cost of micro-brews, you must
have quite a few to begin with.

This sadly is not the case, or the six pack, in Oz.

Whilst there is a couple like coopers, I am a craftbrewer 
(see Sanders,G.,"Why I am a Craftbrewer and part time Love-God" 1999
Shed about the Tools Press, for definition). therefore, i have not 
bought a case in years, and dont see this changing.

i guess the change of thinking that is needed is to stop that
bad American habit, of thinking from a USA perspective. 

scotty

 



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:57:36 -0600
From: Lance Levsen <l.levsen at printwest.com>
Subject: Re: Cost of beer 


> In reading about the state of homebrewing in Australia and from what little
> I know of Canadian homebrewing, I'm starting to think there is a large
> difference in the price of beer between the US and other parts of the world.
> Here in northeastern US, I can get a case (24-12oz cans) of macro swill
> (Bud, Busch, Coors) for about $10-12(US).  Something better would be Sam
> Adams/Harpoon in the $20/case range.  My opinion is that for the "kit and
> kilo" brewer would be hard pressed to make beer for much less than 10$/case.
> Sure, he'd save a few bucks, but not enough for the trouble.  I think this
> explains why there are no homebrew supplies in supermarkets and all of the
> homebrews I've met are doing it for fun and to try to make really good beer.

Speaking from a highly taxed provice in Canada a little larger difference I
think. :-)

Molson/Labatts (Bud Miller Coors) approx $24-30 CDN for a two-four. (16.50 -
20.70, assuming 1.45 US->CDN)

Micro's are approx $9-10 a six pack (6.20-6.90 US)., available at the gov't
installations only. (You can buy them other places, but it's on site
consumption only.)

Brewpubs are about $9/2L. (2000 ml/ (10 fl oz == 341 ml) = 60 oz (approx) = 5 -
12 oz cans = 1.80/can CDN = 1.24 US/ 12  oz. can brewpub.)

> Whenever I am asked if I save money by homebrewing, my answer is that there no
> reasonable way to make a typical american lager for less than I could buy it,
> but I do save a bit when I make my SNPA clone.  (That stuff goes for

See, that's the difference, I _could_ brew for way less then it costs . . . 
but I
_do_ brew better then I buy, and it's still less.

If I wanted to brew for the commercial swill then it' s $10 for the DME and $4
for the hops, $2 for the yeast; It's swill too. Instead, I'll spend the 30
bucks, enjoy the process (biggest factor for me), make a good beer, and share
it w/ my friends. That's gotta be worth $50-60. (2 - 24's, 5 gallons/19 (or 23)
liters).

Cheers,
- -- 
Lance Levsen, Programmer
Product Innovation
PWGroup - S'toon.
477-3166



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 01:13:00 -0600
From: Lance Levsen <l.levsen at printwest.com>
Subject: Re: Kit beers and Mashing 

> Edward Doernberg wrote:
> 
> | Kit beers are far from perfect but they aren't all that bad.
> 

> manufacturer's instructions. But, as drinkable as they may be, they don't
> put a shine on mash beer. All of the extract brewers out there who have
> never tasted a home-mashed beer are probably just saying 'yeah, no wucka's
> mate', but the difference really is astounding. Moving to mash is the best
> thing that could ever happen to your beer.

IF . . . and only if you put more emphasis w/ regards to process for the mash.

I did a series of test's two winter's ago. I live in an apartment and I don't
like using the propane burner inside, balcony being much safer. I did the same
beer, a Strong Scotch Ale using 6 different kits. Results (highly unscientific)
varied drastically . . . two of the extracts were equally comparable to the
mash Scotch I had done, one better. FWIW, a local maltster, Bioriginal (which
buys organic malt, but malts at Prairie Malt) was the best kit. Freshness may
have something to do with it.

I used a 60 min full wort boil, chilled, added my own hops, and used liquid
yeast. IOW, nothing less then the process that you would normally use for a
full mash . . . without the mash.

My point being that in my circumstances given an equal regard to process, the
beer is dictated by quality of ingredients, not type of ingredients.

Cheers,
- -- 
Lance Levsen, Programmer
Product Innovation
PWGroup - S'toon.
477-3166



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 01:28:13 -0600
From: Lance Levsen <l.levsen at printwest.com>
Subject: Re: FWH 


> >>and his "HBU" idea come to mind. <<
>   I don't believe CP came up with the HBU concept, but no matter.
> HBUs work nicely when you brew a beer again and the Alpha acid
> content of the hops has changed. Rather than run through the

This is true. Dave Line's "Big Book of Brewing" reference's the same formula,
that's what . . . the early seventies? CJHB was '84, NCJB was '91 and I haven't
found any references to HBU's in the CJHB.

> Rager formulas again, just divide the HBU by the new Alpha rating

Cheers,
- -- 
Lance Levsen, Programmer
Product Innovation
PWGroup - S'toon.
477-3166



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:27:52 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Price of Beer

Ken Miller asked,

"Could a few brewers from outside the US give us an idea of what a case of
Macro and Micro beer costs locally?  This could give us an idea of the
relative motivations of homebrewing in other countries."

1 US dollar currently buys 6,97 South African rands.

A case (24 x 375 ml) of Castle Lager (SA Brewery's best seller) goes for
roughly R40 to R50 (US$5,74 to US$7,17)

A case of Foresters Lager by Mitchell's Brewery (one of the few micros to
sell by the case) goes for roughly R70 - or a little over US$10.

It costs me less than R1 per litre to brew at home for a typical 20 litre
brew (i.e. 14 US cents) with Caledon malt at about R3 per kg and Southern
Brewer hops R40 per kg

I have not bought a kit in years but I'd guess that kit beers costs about R5
per litre to make.

I think many South Africans got into kit brewing during the sanctions years
when the only beer available was high maize content lager. Those people have
now either stopped brewing or are grain brewers.


Ant Hayes
Brewing in Gauteng


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:15:39 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Some quick responses.

Well G'day all

My brew room construction has been all encompasing lately, so i haven't had
time to put forward a real Aussie's viewpoint on things at the moment.
Still the slab is down, and while the muscles ache, its nice to be at a
stage where I can again burn up the bandwidth.  Oh to all out there I am
ACTUALLY building it.  Why? Well cost. take the slab for example.  Quoted
cost $1300 Aus.  Too bloody deep for my pockets.  Well put on a keg of
craftbrew on, two young kids to shovel and mix concrete, me to do the
technical stuff (put it here, throw it there, throw a few chosen words
about) well the cost came in at $300 odd dollars.  I think I can wear sore
bones for a few days.  Anyway It has to cure for a week, and the footy grand
final is on this week so the brew room stops for two weeks.  I am fully
confident it will be ready in time for the wet.

Now a few quick comments I just can't pass up on.
___________
>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:15:11 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Buying a bigger system

If anyone knows of suitable brewery equipment that is surplus
or a brewery that has gone (or will be going) under, or an organisation
that can
help track some down please let me know.<
________________

I will have to let the digest know about a local character called the
Birdman up here. Anyway I can help you Brad here.  The Birdman been busted
again for "giving away beer".  He has 20 odd bathtubs ready to go that must
be disposed of.  Also has a great bottling line, (6 wino's with cappers).

I will have a give the digest his full story. (one day)

________________________
>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:41:21 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: decoction, mash hopping, flying with brews, gypsuym, malt bill co

The poor australians..  we can surely ship some of those crazy grain
varietys down there for them to aid in "complexity".<
_________________________-

I seem not to have too much problem getting complexity into my brews.  I
have mastered home roasting to a fine art, and as long as I can get some
light caramal malt, average crystal, Pilsner, pale and raw grain, I can
dupilcate all the speciality grains there are.  No big deal.  And the great
advantage is that its fresh.  Its like buying fresh baked bread v day old
bread.  You can really taste it in my drop. To those Aus brewers, dont fret
about the lack of variety, you can make it. Even smoked malt is not out of
reach. (must make my Rauch beer soon)
- ----------------------
>-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:03:15 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative
<Scott.Morgan at aus.sun.com>

recently self-relegated to nymph stage<
- --------------------

Sempai says he will put you to egg stage if my beers dont turn up soon (dont
try and understand this people, you wont)


- ----------------------------
>Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:21:15 -0400
From: "R&P Aceto" <rpaceto at together.net>
Subject: Survivor, Hops et. al.

Greetings-
I do not know if this has been spoken of here before, but i thought it
interesting after watching Survivor tonight (per my wifes choice) to think
about the next series, which will be filmed in Australia.  What do our
friends from accross the pond think about all the comotion first the
olympics and now this stupid show...  I know little about the country, but
an island in the south china sea sounds like a picnic compared to what i
have heard about where they are sending this next group...

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:44:00 -0400
From: "R&P Aceto" <rpaceto at together.net>
Subject: What was i thinking?

Ok, in retrospect i feel like an idiot for my survivor email,

Russ<
____________________
Russ whatever you do don't feel like an idiot.  Haven't you noticed how many
of the knowledgables do quite a good job without even trying.  In fact if i
can encourage them to open up further I will.  Hows that saying go. "you can
keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot, or open it and
remove all doubt."

Now just to show I CAN make an idiot of myself, the next Survivor is being
shot about an hour from home here.  Now I have never watched this rubbish,
and have kicked the relevant public servant for letting them in without my
carton, but I'm prepared.  First tried to get the Salties up where its going
to be.  No luck too far inland.  Mustered a mob of the dreaded SWMBO, but
no, too rough for them.  The trained taipans thou are coming along nicely so
it could still be fun.

I can tell you this, it wont be nice, in the rainforrest, middle of the wet,
plenty of poisonous bities out there, shit even the trees bite.  We have a
tree called the stinger. You brush against that and you'll itch for 6
months.  But worst of all, the best beer in NQLD is only an hour away.
Beats me why anyone would want to do it.  It drove the Japs mad in WWII. If
any of you lot want to ask questions when it eventually shows, feel free to
ask. Oh what do we think up here, well be it that sports event in Sydney of
a bunch of yanks trying to kill themselves next door, if it turns you on so
be it, but dont expect me to get excited over it.

Now Russ, I bet you fell like a true idiot giving me an excuss to write
this.

>From: "Steinbrunner, Jim (JE)" <steinbrunnerje at dow.com>
Subject: The FIVE tastes, Vegemite, and autolyzed yeast

Aussies and Vegemite: Viva l'difference!<
________________

Now thats a great idea Jim, we'll give them all vegemite to live on.  Cant
understand why you dont like it.  the biggest mistake most yanks make is
they spread it on like jam and peanut paste (opps jello and peanut butter).
Its meant to be barely a thin spread, just enough to taste.  Nothing better
in the morning than vegemite toast.  I live on the stuff, and if you have a
hangover, well a bit thicker and it cures all.  In fact a good cure for one
is a big teaspoon of the black grease before bed - but you have to remember
to actually do it of course.

And finally couldn't pass up dear Steve L (you must remember readers, Steve
is a challenged New South Welschman - go Brisbane.)

Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:38:14 +1000
From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: More on extract ratings and gravity calculation

The interpretation. You need to be much more concerned with estimating your
extraction efficiency correctly and hitting the right final wort volume than
with what the grain extract rating is. That is assuming that it is not
likely to vary by more than a point or so from the "rule of thumb" values.

__________________________

You finally worked this gem out have we  And it only took you a week of
posting and counter posting.  I must brew a beer with you, or better still
formulate a receipe or two.  Should be real interesting. I have to agree
totally with Phil and Dr P.  If you know your efficiency the rest falls into
place.  Like Phil (yes I accept your appology and extra carton of rice lager
on your next visit.), I dont weigh any of my grains anymore.  Its all done
by volume now, and always within limits.  I know my efficiencies of my
different systems, so nailing that final gravity is easy within a point or
two.

An occasional check with Promash or Brewer's Workshop is what I do
occasionally just to see how I'm going, but thats getting less and less each
year

Shout

Graham

OHDate: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:52:59 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: paranoid about bacteria

Warren L. White, Melbourne, Australia
Where men are men and pythons are syphoned!

This may be ok for you southerners, I hear Phil and Steve are right into it,
but my python stays firmly in its pants, unless i find Elle naked, rolling
arround in my spent grain, then I might get a second syphoning going.



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:59:59 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Survivor and 'lympics

Russ asked:
"What do our friends from accross the pond think about all the comotion
first the olympics and now this stupid show..."

We have a pretty simple rule here in Oz: just about anyone who arrives with
a full wallet and leaves with an empty one is welcome.  Let the milking, I
mean the Games, begin!

Lyndon Z

Lyndon Zimmermann
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:36:09 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Names, Names, We Need Names!

John Adsit writes:
>  BTW, this was not
>just a rogue group; I assure you the names of the creators >of the
>specific beers I mentioned will be familiar to many of the >readers of
>HBD.

This was in reference to the producers of some very lousy brews, at least as
far as John's opinion goes.

John, spill the beans, we all need to know who these people are. We need to
know the truth!

Who here in the HBD is responsible for these dreadful concoctions?

Are they hiding behind the "drunks" argument when in fact they are the very
perpetrators Pat is looking to expunge?
I only hope Ray Kruse is not amongst them as he treads on Australian soil at
this moment and in a day is to visit the province of Burradoo.

We need their names John. It'll be the "cat of nine tails" for the lot of
them if I get my hands on them!

Phil






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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:54:23 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Making your own specialty grains

"RALPH, ADAM N [AG/5020]" wrote:
> 
> OK Brad, you definitely sparked up my interest when you mentioned in the HBD
> that you make your own specialty grains.  Can you please advise me as to how
> and with what you do this?  I love using all sorts of grains, but given our
> restricted supply in WA this is a big problem.  So far, the most I have done
> is toast some pale malt for inclusion in an Irish Ale.

Actually I didn't say that at all, I said I would rather
make my own specialty grains instead of import them.
I, like you, have only made amber malt.
You didn't say what malts you were after, so here is a general rundown
from the books I have (Daniels, Korzonas and La Pensee).
Some malts are easy to do, some like crystal, are trickier.
>From what I understand here is a quick run down of what you have to do:

For Pale/Pilsner Malt (most Australian pale malt would be classified
as pilsner malt (it is usually around 2L):
***
Low Temperature Kilning:
Vienna Malt: 85-90C for 10 hours
Munich Malt: 100C for 10 hours
Pale Ale:85C for maybe 5 hours from pilsner malt?
Imperial Malt: 130C for 7 hours. (A malt no longer
made but sounds very interesting!)

High Temperature Kilning:
160C-220C will produce Chocolate or Black Malt depending
on how long it is roasted for. I would imagine 2-3 hours?.
Black malt is usually turned in a drum to keep it uniform.
I would suggest a thin layer of malt for your oven.

Crystal Malts:
Crystal malts are different. Crystal malts have been converted
by "stewing" by the maltster before finishing off.
If you are going to make crystal malt I would say you would
have to mash your pale malt at 65C until converted.
Do the usual iodine test after 30 minutes or so to check conversion.
After the grains have been converted, dry and kiln at 120-160C.
The length of time would determine the colour of the crystal
 - obviously a shorter time for dextrine (carapils) malt - 
longer for deeper coloured crystal.
***
With unmalted barley:

Roast Barley:
As you know Roast Barley is made from unmalted barley.
Roast at 220C until done - 2 -3 hours?
***
I have also posted this to the HBD for comment as this is 
all theory for me, I hope someone out there has actually tried
this.

Good luck,

Brad McMahon
Aldgate, South Australia


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:43:47 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au>
Subject: siphoning and Vegemite

"Randy Pressley" comments on learning to siphon from a fish tank.

I suck all my fish tank hoses. Considering the stuff i have been forced to
drink on one or to hikes (some of the venturer scouts I've been out with
don't believe they need a descent map wen hiking in unfamiliar terrain) fish
water doesn't bother me I've drunk lots of it in my time. 

i still suck my beer as well. I just jam a extra airlock onto the tube and
suck threw that. Take the airlock of beefer the beer gets to it and you have
a easy clean siphon.

Not everyone will consider this best but I like it and rarely siphon anyway
as all my fermenters and my combination mash/launder tun/kettle also has a tap. 


I am a proud Australian and I proudly eat vegemite (significantly les proud
synced a bloody yank now gets the profits but still proud).

When I was going to an American school in Indonesia, as part of the cultural
learning we did, a jar of vegemite was produced and we tasted it on bread.
There where several mistakes made including not toasting the bred first but
the whopper was the amount that was used, the American teacher spread it as
thick as peanut butter. You cant do that with vegemite. Shore Australian
children all eat it striate but that's just to outdo siblings. It is a very
strong flavour if you cant still see the bred you've got to much for me and
I take it thicker than most. 

The reason you over in the states cant eat vegemite is because your
gluttons, you try to eat it in inch thick layers and when you realise it cat
be done you assume Australians are stupid because of it. Well its not so.

Vegemite is also good on muffins (not the chocolate type) crumpets and as
flavouring in stew. Always used in moderation.

Edward



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 07:56:21 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Yeast buffers, Hops and pH, Decocting HSA, Soft and RO water

Brewsters:

Discussion of late is possibly to use phosphate buffers as yeast storage. I
 wouldn't, as bacteria love phosphate buffers. Pure distilled water works
the best for the simple reason it will not support other life, unlike agar
slants and other media which ultimately lead to contaminated yeast because
the media supports bacterial life.
- --------------------------------------
Marc, the hops have virtually no influence over the pH of a mash. Buffers
in the malt and reactions of calcium ions in the water with phosphorous
compounds control this, mostly.
- --------------------------------------
I would not think that Decocting would have a reduced HSA as you are moving
boiling wort from kettle to kettle. If anything, it would be worse. I
cannot imagine where the idea that wort would be too hot to oxidise came
from, although I have read it here in various forms. Just not true.
- --------------------------------------
Bob Fesmire asks what to do with his softened water in his new house. First
the amount of salt will be in the ppm likely, so unnoticed in beer. If not,
you can get a Reverse Osmosis device at Home Depot for $200 which will fit
under your sink or wherever and you can have absolutely pure water an can
add all teh minerals you want or not. This worked fabulously for me in my
old house which had incredibly hard well water with iron and manganese. If
you drink either the softened or RO water I suggest you and your family
take mineral tablets to supply both calcium and magnesium.
- --------------------------------------
Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley  


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 05:04:13 -0700
From: "O'mahoney, Larry (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
Subject: Flaked vs. Whole Rice

Anyone know the equivalence between flaked rice and whole rice in a recipe?
I went to brew a golden ale this weekend in which the recipe called for 0.75
lb. flaked maize and 0.75 lb. flaked rice. Bugs had gotten into the rice
(but not my maize or malt, you figure it) so rather than not brew, I boiled
up 0.75 lb. of whole rice and added that to the mash which proceeded
beautifully.

I cooked the rice with 3x the volume of the rice in water, then added the
whole mess to the mash tun. The rice had swelled incredibly which may have
contributed to the fast conversion in the mash tun. I doubt I added the
equivalent of 0.75 lb. flaked rice to the mash, so how much did I add?

BTW, I used Jasmine rice, an Oriental variety with a subtle clover-like
flavor. If it turns out well I'll let the HBD know.

Larry
New Orleans (by job, not choice)

++++++++++++++++++
"A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is
incompatible with freedom." --Patrick Henry  




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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 07:18:29 -0400
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: cleaning stainless...

well...I goofed.  I was told to coat the bottom of my new 
Polarware lauter/ kettle with soap to keep the blackening down 
on the bottom...but in my hast to strike the flame up I 
forgot.  How does one best clean the black smoke off from the 
bottom of stainless?

also, for those who use a similar setup (10 gallon lauter tun 
with built in thermometer) I found it not real easy to 
maintain a steady temperature/...ie more fluctuations than I'd 
have liked... Any suggestions would be appreciated...perhaps 
insulating so as to reduce the amt of heat needed to apply?

/..Darrell
<terminally intermediate homebrewer>

- --------------------------
Darrell G. Leavitt, PhD
SUNY/ Empire State College
- --------------------------


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:46:42 -0400
From: "Bill Coleman" <maltydog at mindspring.com>
Subject: Brussels Stops

In addition to the places already mentioned, there are a couple
of wonderful bars in Brussels that I would recommend. I don't
have any references here at work, so I may be making some 
spelling errors, but anyway, The Biere Circus, The Porte Noire 
and a little further out, (a subway will get you there) Chez Moeder
Lambic all have an amazing selection of beers.

Also, not far from Brussels is the town of Beersel, accessible by
train, which has 2 lambic breweries, Oud Beersel and Drie Fonteinen, 
and also Drie Brounen, a bar/restaurant with an excellent selection of
beers.

There is a great guide to Brussels bars put out by Stephen D'Arcy
of the Belgian branch of CAMRA it can be ordered directly from him. 
I believe his address is on the CAMRA website. Also, Tim Webb's book,
The Good Beer Guide to Belgian, Holland and Luxebourg, is invaluable,
though it is getting a little out of date. You can pick it up in some 
bookstores in the US.

Bill



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:55:57 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: re: beer prices in Canada

Ken Miller wants to know if...
> a few brewers from outside the US could give us an idea of
> what a case of
> Macro and Micro beer costs locally?  This could give us an idea of the
> relative motivations of homebrewing in other countries.

Here in Winnipeg, Manitoba, home of the worst football team on the continent
(yes, Stephen Ross I believe they are even worse than yours, and they'll
prove it on Labour Day), 3 microbreweries striving for mediocrity, and a
brewpub that can't keep a brewer, this is what we must pay to drown our
sorrows (note: prices include all taxes and for comparison purposes, are
converted into US dollars at a 1.5 exchange rate, close enough for our
purposes):

Your basic two-four (as we hosers call it) of Labatt Blue costs $18.36.
For a "premium" beer like Sleeman Cream Ale that goes up to $22.36.

Some products are not available in 24 size. For example, Pabst Blue Ribbon
(can 10 people trapped in a televised house be wrong?), it costs $4.67/6 or
$18.67/24.

Labatt Budweiser (that's right, it's Budmilloors LaMolson-style) costs
$9.71/12 or $19.42/24.

To buy beer that is actually good, you often end up paying single bottle
pricing here, or at best 6-packs. Some examples:

Big Rock Traditional is $5.57/6 or $22.29/24.
McAuslan St Ambroise stout is $8.34/6 or $33.36/24.
Unibroue La Maudite is $1.72 per bottle or $41.28/24.

Don't even get me started on the cost of imported beers.

Remember, these are all in US dollars. What's actually coming out of my
pocket if I want a couple dozen Blue (as if) is about $28. And my income
gets taxed at a much higher rate than down there in the US.

There is a definate financial motivation to homebrew here. For example, the
easiest way to make beer (not the cheapest) is pick up a BrewHouse kit
which, on sale, is about $16.67 US. That yields about 5 dozen bottles, after
racking losses. That's a 24-case price of about $6.67 and the beer is quite
good.

Cheers,
Brian




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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:56:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John S. Watson" <watson at george.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Brussles Beer, Falstaff


In HOMEBREW Digest #3407 on  Fri 18 August 2000 mohrstrom at humphreypc.com wrote:
>
> If you are there on Friday or Saturday evening, the Falstaff, near the
> Bourse,  ...

When I was staggering around Brussels in May of 1999, sampling 
as much Belgian Beer as possible, I tried to locate the Falstaff,
and found only an empty space where it was supposed to be.
So unless I was lead to the wrong address, I think the Falstaff was 
out of business.  I could be wrong, since I was not fluent in French,
the signs in the window may have said moved to a new location or something.

If you like lambics, I second the recommendations for Morte Subite cafe,
La Becasses (sp?) and Cantillion brewery tour.

Although the Brewery Musseum, like the rest of the the Grande Place,
is pretty to look at from the outside, don't waste to much time there.
Inside wasn't all that interesting, and I wasted a lot of time,
trying to be there when they were open.

If you get a chance, pop over to Brugge.  I enjoyed the small towns
in Belgium (and the rest of Europe) a lot more than the Big Cities.



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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:59:21 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: Low TG

hoo boy,

I brewed up a 10 gal batch of special bitter last week. I got the bright Idea
of making half a sort of Mild or Brown Ale by adding a bit of chocolate malt
(steeped in a bit of 150f water on the stove and cooled - added to second
carboy). Kinda borrowing a trick from my extract friends. Anyway, in the
tradition of stupid brewer tricks, I filled a 6 gal carboy to the "blowoff"
point. Just then I realized I only had about 4 gal of wort left! soooo....I
added it to the carboy, heated up a gal of water to boiling, then added enough
honey to keep the Original Gravity the same(1.038), cooled and added. 

Well, all was well through the ferment, finished before the unadulterated
batch in fact. However, the Terminal Gravity was 1.001!!!!! The resultant brew
is very nice, clean, the chocolate addition worked nicely. Of course the stuff
IS unbalanced(needs sweetness) and thin. So I kegged and force
carbonated,spiked a sample with malto dextrin. The mouth feel improved, still
too harsh. I spiked it with some sugar, there we are!!! nice beer well
balanced!! 

So, I'm thinking lactose, with a few oz of the malto dextrin? any other
ideas....similar "shotsave!" situations?  I've never used lactose or
malto dextrin before, so those who have, please chime in. I can't resist the
lactose idea, I mean, Milk and Honey Mild!!! What a great name!!!

AP


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:04:45 GMT
From: "Leland Predon" <happy_godzilla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Books

Greetings from Toronto,

I have just begun (less than one year) homebrewing with kits and extracts 
and the like... I've read both of Chuck Pap's books and I am interested 
(mostly from what I have been reading here) in all grain brewing. Judging 
from what I've read here, some of Pap's stuff is outdated, I was wondering 
if someone could reccomend a newer/better book? Thanks.


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 14:24:32 -0400
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: Beer prices (Canada) and reasons for brewing

Ken Miller writes:

In reading about the state of homebrewing in Australia and from what little
I know of Canadian homebrewing, I'm starting to think there is a large
difference in the price of beer between the US and other parts of the world.
Here in northeastern US, I can get a case (24-12oz cans) of macro swill
(Bud, Busch, Coors) for about $10-12(US).  Something better would be Sam
Adams/Harpoon in the $20/case range.  My opinion is that for the "kit and
kilo" brewer would be hard pressed to make beer for much less than 10$/case.
Sure, he'd save a few bucks, but not enough for the trouble.  I think this
explains why there are no homebrew supplies in supermarkets and all of the
homebrews I've met are doing it for fun and to try to make really good beer.

Could a few brewers from outside the US give us an idea of what a case of
Macro and Micro beer costs locally?  This could give us an idea of the
relative motivations of homebrewing in other countries.  

- --------------
I'll write from the British Columbia standpoint (the western-most Canadian
province):

Macro lagers (Labatt's Blue, Molson Canadian) run about $16-17 per dozen.
Note, this is in $CDN, but
since we are discussing prices within the country for people paid that
currency, $CDN = $US = $AUS.
Micro stuff is between $9-$11 per HALF dozen.

Liquor sales in BC are made through provincial government run stores only
(aside from some private
wine shops).  Provincial tax on alcohol is higher in BC than anywhere else
in the country.  Important
point:  nothing ever goes on sale.  So while a corner store in the US might
put 24-cans of Bud on
sale for $8, Molson costs the same at all stores and at all times.

You can probably see why brew-on-premise operations are hugely popular here.
A $100-ish batch
of 50L of beer from one of these places costs about 69 cents/bottle.  The
macro lager costs about
$1.40.

>From my personal perspective, I wasn't buying that much beer before I
started brewing.  My goal was
to create a flavourful beer at home.  Since then, the driving force is the
ability to make any style that
I please.  Another low point in our system is that some idiot somewhere
decides what import beers
to stock and that's it for the whole province.  The selection is
unbelievably poor.  A commonly found
beer in the US, like Chimay, is almost never available here in BC (I've
never seen it on the shelves over
the last ~10 years).

cheers,
Dave


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:17:11 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Lemon 

Too late for Saturday, but...

The search engine is happily perking along.  But the link from hbd.org
is temporarily misplaced.

You can come directly to the search engine at

http://hubris.engin.umich.edu/cgi-bin/dothread

=Spencer


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:22:18 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Boulder 

>>>>> "Brian" == Brian Rezac <rawhide at oneimage.com> writes:

    Brian> In addition, you should stop by the relatively new Irish
    Brian> Pub, Conor O'Neal's, on 13th between Pearl and Walnut.
    Brian> They serve all three: Guinness, Murphy's and Beamish

Gee, we've got one of those in Ann Arbor, too.  I shoulda figured it
was a chain.

And there's a fourth Irish stout now.  I just saw the tap (empty keg
though :-() last night at Ashley's (also in AA -- 64 taps).  It's
called "Black Biddy", and is brewed by the "Biddy Early Brewery" in
Inagh, Co. Claire, Ireland.  This brewpub was founded in 1995.  Find
out more at http://beb.ie/.

=Spencer


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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:23:25 -0400
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: Re: Etching beer glasses

>circle etched on the bottom to provide 
>nucleation sites to create a better head...


Searching google.com for "glass - etching" reveals

<http://www.glassmart.com/etching_cream.asp>

although a replacement mechanical-pencil eraser chucked up
in a Dremel or Foredom tool and a little lapping compound
(autoparts) might work too...  One would think that a star
or cross shape would make a more interesting bubble plume.
Certainly would be a inducement to bring down the haze
level.


stencil sends
RKBA!


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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:30:48 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beer Prices in Australia

Ken Miller writes...

Could a few brewers from outside the US give us an idea of what a case of
Macro and Micro beer costs locally?  This could give us an idea of the
relative motivations of homebrewing in other countries.

- ---------------------------------------------------------

    Australian prices are as follows...
    Victoria Bitter, the dreaded VB to the natives is about $27 (and rising) 
per case i.e. 24 cans or bottles or "slab" to the average Nuff Nuff with his 
blue Bonds singlet and Bull Terrier Cross, or $10 per six pack.
    Tooheys Red, almost as dreaded, but slightly cheaper at about $22 per 
case.
    Low alcohol beers range from about $14 to about $20 per case.
    The Scary thing about beers like VB and all of C.U.B.s products is that 
they're about 30% cane sugar (Arrggghh! fusel headaches!)
    Premium beers i.e. Cascade Premium, Hahn Premium, Coopers, Crown Lager 
(Fosters in a Yuppie bottle) and some others are about $50 per case (est.) 
or about $15-$18 per six pack.
    Microbrewed beers, the few that we have are probably about the same or 
slightly more than the premium beers, say $50 upwards per case.
    So as you can see, both price and the dubious quality of the commercial 
product and the limited availability and price of the Microbrewed product 
make a compelling case for Homebrewing!
    It might cost me $20-$25 per six gallon batch to make my beer but at 
least I have sort of control and say over what I drink!!!!

Warren L. White - Melbourne, Australia
Off to buy some blue Bonds singlets,
hope the fashion police hear about this!

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Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:06:49 -0400
From: "Jason Henning" <jhannin115 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Rennerian Coordinates

Hello-

Jeff Renner ponders, "Now I'm outa here to Cape Cod for a week, about 750
miles east Rennerian (or do I take 0,0 Rennerian with me?)." It very simply
Jeff, you define [0,0] Rennerian, not your house. No one ever posts that
they are 1100 miles southwest from Sciomeadows Drive, they always reference
you directly. Only when we plant you will [0,0] Rennerian be static.

For example, George DePiro in Albany, NY is usually about [600,90], or 600
miles due east of you. However, two years ago George flew about 1700 miles
to Houston for the MCAB. Since you too were at the MCAB, George was [<.5],
or within a half mile (with no direction given) of you.

Hope this clears things up.

Cheers,
Jason Henning
Senior Rennerian Coordinate Developer
Whitmore Lake, MI
[12, 210] Rennerian




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