---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  St.Pat's (Marc Sedam)
  10+ Gallon Fermentors (Mike Isaacs)
  RE: Homebrew club? YES! ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
  Star San and keeping my fridge from freezing (Jeffrey L. Calton)
  Identifying Hops plants, Step mashing ("Dunn, Scott C FOR:EX")
  floating bottoms ("John S. Thomas")
  Brew down under (Ray Kruse)
  New Homebrew Software ("Drew Avis")
  St. Pats Clarification (Guy Mason)
  Re: Chlorine/Chloramine (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Pearl Foam Beer (Jeff Renner)
  Tips for visiting Koeln / Cologne (part 1) (Alan McKay)
  Tips for visiting Koeln / Cologne (part 2) (Alan McKay)
  Proper venting of propane burners ("Jay Hummer")
  Re: Chlorine/Chloramine (AJ)
  Re: Tips for visiting Koeln / Cologne (B.R. Rolya)
  Good News ("Peter Garofalo")
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  The Jethro Gump Report.. ("Rob Moline")


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:42:53 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: St.Pat's 

Lynne has, IMHO, made a big mistake by touting the near
infallibility of her store.  It's a safe marketing estimate
that 2% of your customers are pissed off at your company at
any given point in time, but that only 5% of that 2% (that's
0.1% for the mathematically impaired) actually take the time
to tell you how upset they are.  BUT, of the 2% who were
torqued in the first place, a full 80% will make sure
everyone knows what a terrible business they think you
have.  Unhappy people are usually quiet to the source, but
very loud to the uninvolved.  See:  Employee water cooler.

So, even using Lynne's conservative estimate of 5 problems
in the entire time she's been in business (I'm sorry--no one
is this good!), a marketing person would tell you you've
more likely made 5000 errors.  Further drilling down, if
only two customers were "right" (so much for the customer
always being right, and taking them to task on the HBD
doesn't really make you look that great) then you still have
2000 problems.  It's not the people that you hear who are
the real problem.  It's the people who are unhappy and find
another shop on the web who you need to worry about.
Monday's HBD shows that the "outing" may as well begin.

That being said, I've generally had good experiences with
St. Pats, although if I order stuff through them and
William's Brewing at the same time, WB always gets here
first.  Usually by a few days.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: 28 Aug 2000 10:10:55 -0400
From: Mike Isaacs <misaacs at bigfoot.com>
Subject: 10+ Gallon Fermentors

Hello all.

I have just finished a cross-country move and I am ready to start brewing
again. I left my carboys in CA and need a new primary fermentor. 

I brew 10 gallon batches and I would like to ferment the entire batch in one
primary. I cannot find 10 to 15 gallon food grade buckets anywhere. Any
suggestions out there?

Mike
misaacs at bigfoot.com






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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:16:04 -0500
From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <blackwod at rice.edu>
Subject: RE: Homebrew club? YES!

>I just want to spend a few moments praising the idea of homebrew
>clubs, and illustrate the advantages of being a member.

Hear, Hear! Good man! Tell it brother! Hallelujah!
<Much snippage>

>We also had a night (early in the infancy of the club) where every
>beer sampled was a Belgian of some sort.... There is no way I would 
>have plunked down the necessary cash to sample all of those beers on 
>my own.

To my mind, this is one of the best services a homebrew club can 
provide.  As Secondary Fermenter of the Foam Rangers, I have the 
*great* job of finding new and interesting beers for every meeting's 
tasting.  To that end, I have our club members scouring the country 
on every trip to bring back the best and most interesting beers they 
can find.
I'm also not above mailing beer out to get good beer back! <hint, hint>
<More snippage>

>So, my suggestion to anyone getting into homebrewing is to get
>involved with a club, try every different style of beer that is
>available, and basically stay active. Learn about styles, and become
>attuned to the subtle differences between substyles. Become informed
>about your new hobby, and it will serve you well.

Here in Houston, we have four major clubs and quite a few minor ones. 
We've been working very hard the past two years to work cooperatively 
rather than against one another.  Every club has their own unique 
character and that makes each of them valuable to the community as a 
whole.  We take our competition seriously, but at the end of the day, 
we also remember that it's only about good beer and that friendly 
competition raises the quality level for all of us.  We've also been 
trying very hard to extend that spirit to our chief rivals in the 
gulf coast area by aggressively recruiting members to enter 
competitions out of our own area.  Sometimes we succeed, other times 
we don't, but we are trying.
It is surprisingly difficult to keep your membership brewing and 
active when there is so much good beer you can buy.  We don't envy 
our Florida brethren who have even more onerous state laws than we 
do, but at least it gives them a strong incentive to brew!  Homebrew 
clubs are a lot of work, often for little reward other than the 
headache of trying to "herd cats," but they are worth the effort and 
everyone should support them through membership and participation.

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com/


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Date: 28 Aug 2000 11:21:05 EDT
From: Jeffrey.L.Calton at Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffrey L. Calton)
Subject: Star San and keeping my fridge from freezing



Greetings.  A couple of questions:


Given that my water supply comes from an underground well, I've felt the need to
try out the various "no rinse" sanitizers on the market.  Upon trying out
Star-San however, I was dismayed at all the foaming encountered.  Sanitizing a
carboy left the container nearly completely full of foam.  Am I to assume that
this foam is harmless to yeast, people, or the taste of beer?


Secondly, my lagering fridge sits on a back patio.  With the coming winter, I
need to explore ways of keeping the inside from dipping below freezing
temperatures.  One solution would be to install a low watt incandescent light
bulb to provide a source of internal heat.  However, the fridge often contains
beer in glass carboys, and I worry about the potential detriment of exposing the
beer to a continuous light source.  How have others dealt with this issue?


Thanks,


Jeff Calton

Hanover, NH

 


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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:31:33 -0700
From: "Dunn, Scott C FOR:EX" <Scott.Dunn at gems5.gov.bc.ca>
Subject: Identifying Hops plants, Step mashing

A couple of questions for the group:

I made a bit of a mistake last year when I planted my hops.  I spent a bit
of time planing out where to put my plants and took great care to ensure a
good rich soil mixture, etc. But, I put tags on them with a strip of masking
tape rather than a metal tag.  Well the obvious happened. The plants grew
great took off like rockets. At the end of the season I could just make out
the names on the strips of masking tape, which was nice but of no value
because the plants only produced an tiny number of cones.  I told myself to
get some metal tags and re-label them before the spring because I would not
be able to figure out which one was which. Well I got a little beside myself
and forgot. This spring I had now way of telling, which was which.  I now
have a nice crop of cones on all the plants and not a clue which plant is
which. The plants I planted were Fuggles, Perle, EK-Golding, and Liberty.
The cones are just about ripe and will be ready for picking in the next few
weeks.  I will be packaging them up, and I would really like to give them a
label other than ?? Any help in identifying the leaves or cones would be
greatly appreciated.
I have noticed that my most recent light coloured ales have a chill haze in
them.  I have read a bit about getting rid of it. I think that the best way
for me is to conduct a protein rest during the mash. If I have read and
listened to the advice of others I should attempt a rest at ~ 122'f. I am
contemplating a thick infusion mash with a rest at 122'f then raising the
temp to ~ 154'f  for the main mash rest. 
My difficulty comes when I try to raise the temperature up to my main mash
rest. I have a simple infusion mash system in a rectangular ice chest
cooler. I have had messy troubles in the past while attempting a decoction
type mash. Lets just say my shop floor was real clean once I finally got
finished my brew day. So my question is: given that a typical brew is mashed
in with approximately 5kg of grain + adjuncts how much water should I
mash-in with to get a 122'f protein rest. Then how much boiling water should
I add to get to the desired 154'f main rest yet still retain the needed mash
thickness for a balanced conversion.  Any comments or help will be greatly
appreciated.
 
 
 


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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:02:48 -0700
From: "John S. Thomas" <john at warnerthomas.com>
Subject: floating bottoms

Response to Anthony Parlati and thread about Floating False Bottom.

Our bottoms don't float !!

We think our new Hobby Beverage MiniMash Lauter Tun has solved the floating
bottom problem plus a few more. See Zymurgy and BREW for pictures. The
diameter of the tank is smaller near the bottom creating a horizontal shelf
that supports the screen. A built in leg in the center holds a stainless
steel bolt and wing nut. The wing nut holds the screen flat against the
ledge and leg about two inches above the bottom. Reports have been
great. We have done some other things like add extra threads for RIMs or any
other creative idea you may come up with. It comes ready to mash with
valve, sparge arm hose connectors everything.

Our conflict or axe to grind is to make the best small batch brewing
equipment available at reasonable prices and to sell our equipment
  --- so be careful.

John S. Thomas
Hobby Beverage Equipment
Box 1387 Temecula, CA 92593
jthomas at minibrew.com
909-676-2337 



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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:26:26 -0400
From: Ray Kruse <rkruse at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Brew down under

As you are all aware from the Baron, I've been down under on vacation.
It would appear that home brewing is not only alive but doing well in
the Souther Highlands and in Sydney.

My wife and I were invited to the Ale & Lager Competition awards
presentation on the 26th in Sydney.  We got to meet a lot of the local
homebrewers, and also got to sample some of their competition entries.

During the course of the 'after presentation beer drinking', there was
some discussion of an internation competition of some sort between the
Australians and the Americans.  Perhaps something unofficial where the
clubs hold their own competitions and then each sends the winning brew
to the other side of the pond?  Anyone with any suggestions or ideas can
email me privately.

I can also tell you that at the Buradoo Estate I did see the pool table,
but the lovely ladies were unfortunately absent.  The Baron and I
consumed a number of brews (some of his, some of mine) but Marilyn never
came up out of the bog.  Yes, the bog, too, exists.

And as promised, Phil, I won't tell anyone about the three cases of Blue
Ribbon Malt Syrup that you had in the brewery.  Just our little secret.

As soon as I get my pictures developed, I'll be happy to send anyone a
jpeg of the Buradoo train station, the Buradoo Hilton, and Phil's cat
(with or without tail attached).

Oh, Wes, the agar slant mostly made the trip.  Some leakage in the
plastic bag, and I've got it out on the counter to see if I can get the
surface to 'regrow' since it got pretty mixed up during the flight.
I'll also consult with our expert in yeast infections, the Near Doctor
Alan Meeker, and see what he has to say about getting the culture
regrown.

Ray Kruse
Glen Burnie, PRMd
rkruse at bigfoot.com



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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:19:06 GMT
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: New Homebrew Software

Brewsters, I'd like to announce some new software for homebrew recipe 
formulation that I've been working on.  StrangeBrew 1.2 has a very simple 
interface, but offers many useful features: a large database of ingredients, 
support for US and metric measurements, cost, carbonation, and style 
management, and a mash calculator that supports decoction and infusion 
steps.  At this time it's only available for Windows 9x and NT/2000.

Most of StrangeBrew's calculations were gleaned from the HBD, and I've 
included all calculations in the help file.  I've also made the code 
implementing brewing calculations available on the web site, so anyone who 
really wants to know how the program is working under the hood can check it 
out.  Heck, you can even use the code to write your own brewing software!

I'm not expecting to make much (or any?) money off this little adventure - I 
know that most people don't register shareware (I'm as guilty as the next 
guy).  For the time being StrangeBrew is not limited in any way and relies 
on the honour system for registration.  If some folks really like the 
program and do register it, I've pledged 20% of all proceeds to the HBD 
server fund.  The rest will go to my next project: porting StrangeBrew to 
Linux!

There is a catch: StrangeBrew uses the bulky Borland Database Engine, which 
makes for a largish download (4 megs for the BDE, and 1.3 megs for 
StrangeBrew).  The good news is that after the first install, the BDE does 
not need to be re-installed for new versions of StrangeBrew.

If you're interested, please give the software a whirl.  You can download it 
from http://www.geocities.com/andrew_avis/sb/

Thanks!
Drew Avis
Merrickville, Ontario

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.



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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:50:24 -0400
From: Guy Mason <guy.mason at matrixone.com>
Subject: St. Pats Clarification

<html>
<font face="Courier New, Courier">HBDer's<br>
<br>
There has been some confusion as to my post about St. Pats.&nbsp;&nbsp;
Yes I had a problem with an order, but I don't want anyone to think that
I am getting poor service from St. Pats in any way shape or form.&nbsp;
Lynne has been quite helpful in correcting the situation.&nbsp; After
re-checking the catalog, I may have caused some of the confusion that
lead to the problem.&nbsp; Also I do not under any circumstance advocate
using the HBD or rcb as a mail-order gripe board, especially from idiots
who never place an order and think it's 'fun' to spew about people who
are getting the job done.&nbsp; And for anyone who flames any mail-order
shop for mistakes, remember them the next time you make a mistake. (Trust
me it won't be long, it never is...)<br>
<br>
A satisfied (actual) customer of&nbsp; St. Pats.<br>
<br>
Guy Mason</font></html>



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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:23:42 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Chlorine/Chloramine

Catching up on HBD after a week temporarily relocating (0,0) Rennerian 750
miles east.

"A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> wrote

>The most convenient methods of chloramine removal are granulated active
>carbon and chemical treatment. GAC filtration is relatively inexpensive
>and effective but you do need to buy, install and service the filter.
>Several sulfites will remove chloramine effectively without adding
>significant ammounts of new ions to the water.

I think I was the first to alert HBD about chloramines after talking to the
Ann Arbor water treatment plant's water chemist some years ago.  He
suggested another counter-intuitive method of removing chloramines which
AJ's statement hints at:

>dichloramine and trichloramine are indeed very volatile

and that is to add more chlorine!  This will convert the monochloroamines
to di- and tri-, which will gas off.  I don't know how much you'd need to
add, but it wouldn't be much, as we're talking about a few ppms of the
amines.  I also don't know how practical this would be compared to AJ's
other suggested methods.

Fortunately, I have a good well so I don't have to worry about this.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:47:33 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Pearl Foam Beer

"Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at home.com> wrote:
>
>Okay, time to find out who knows their history.  Any one out there have any
>information, pictures, recipe hints, etc. regarding Pearl Foam Beer?  It was
>made in the early 1900's by Mount Clemens Brewing Company, in Mount Clemens,
>Michigan.  Our homebrew club is has been asked to do a demonstration brew
>and provide as much information as possible on this beer for the Bath City
>Festival this weekend in Mount Clemens.  Any information will be helpful.

Sorry that this is probably too late for your festival.  This brewery is
mentioned in Peter Blum's wonderful _Brewed in Detroit_ on pp. 273-276.  As
with most entries, there is little information given on the beer itself
(actually, none at all in this case), but you would be close in assuming it
was a golden lager, probably 1.050 or so and hopped 30-40 IBU, and brewed
with 20-35% corn or rice.  In other words, a CAP.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:06:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: Tips for visiting Koeln / Cologne (part 1)


Got bounced the first time for being too big, so here it comes
split in two ...

Hey folks,

Saw BR Rolya's post and figured I'd give some more details.  Below
you can find details on finding PJ Frueh, Hans Sion, Peters, 
Weiss Braeu, Alt Dom, Hellers and Lommerzheim.

Also an off-line question to Mr Rolya, just curious what trade show
you were at.  It seems we were in town at the same time.  Note that
below my tip for Lommerzheim - it is very close to the Messe grounds,
right across the street from the Youth Hostel.  You really should
check it out next time!

BTW, most of this is pulled verbatim from some tips I'd emailed to
an E-friend.  My apologies to Harold for publicizing this half of
our conversation.  Call me lazy ;-)

============
Weiss Braeu
============

On Barbarossaplatz (subway 12,16,18 from the hauptbahnhof) you can find 
both Weiss Braeu (Lecker Koelsch) and not far from there is Hellers.  
They are two of the smallest, and only get their beer in house.  
Hellers is one of the only breweries serving a Wiess ("Vees")
 - unfiltered, young koelsch, not to be confused with Weiss ("Vice").

the 12,16,18 stop is on the NE corner of the platz.  come off the platform 
towards the platz and turn left to cross the street to get onto the SE 
corner,  then keep walking up the sidewalk.  You are walking southward on
the ring, on the inside of the ring.  after 4 or 5 buildings (doors) you 
will come across Pantaleonsmuehlengasse.  and to the left is a big round 
building set back off the street.  go around it on the right hand side of 
it and walk down Triererstrasse, you will see the brewery on the left on 
the corner of Trierer and am Weidenbach.  I was brewing there with Peter 
the brewmaster most of my first day there.  

========
Hellers
========
To get to Hellers, come off the platform and go straight across the other 
street - the Ring.  There is a McDonalds right in front of you.  Cross to 
it then turn right and start walking.  At the next intersection the ring 
veers to the right, but you keeep going straight ahead onto Roonstrasse.  
Youll see a church on the right which is under renovation right now.  It 
is on the corner of Roon and Zuelpicher.  Cross over Zuelpicher and keep 
walking on the left side of Roonstr.  In the summer Hellers is only open 
starting at 7pm, and is right up there about 5 doors or so just before 
the 'Hi Fi' store.  you will see the small sign for the hi fi place.  
Oh, it's also closed sunday and holidays IIRC (have it in my notes, but
they are at home right now)

in this neighbourhood are lots of good bars, and i counted about 10 or 12 
different types of koelsch being served in and out of the little side streets.  
Roonstr, Kyffhaeuser (sp?), Engelbart, etc.  lots of great little turkish 
and greek 'imbiss' to get a quick bite if you like that kind of food.  

at the Weissbraeu strongly recommend weisswurst and semmelknoedel and the 
Schnapps!  got to try the schnapps there!  right now they have on tap a 
hefeweizen (darker one), koelsch, schwarzbier, and i got to try some 
private stock Bock.  All very good.  incidentally he told me that when 
i used to frequent that place 6 and 7 years ago when I lived in COlogne, 
that the brewmaster was actually canadian.  go figure!

Oh, the Hefeweizen and the Koelsch are always on tap.  The Koelsch is
called "Lecker Koelsch".  I like the name, which translates to 
"Yummy Koelsch".  They had a competition among customers when they
first introduced it a decade or so ago to choose the best name, and
this is what won.

====================
Alt Koeln / Kueppers
====================

then there are all the places downtown, of course.  Go to Hans Sion 
Brauhaus to get a map.  Actually "Alt Koeln" right next the train station
and the Dom have them, too, hanging on the wall down near the washroom.

=====================
Hans Sion / PJ Frueh
=====================
In front of the Dom (Cathedral) walk as though coming out the front door, 
and go to the steps at the end of the platz and stand in front of the big 
statue/fountain thing that is there.  It's actually a filial and you will
see plaques on it in many languages telling you that it is a life-sized
replica of one of the ones from atop the spires of the Dom.  turn around 
and face the dom and look off 45 degrees to the right and you will see 
another church looming over the top of a building.  go over to that 
building at the other end of the square (Roncalliplatz) and go around 
it to the right, 
then left down the hill.  incidentally just when you get to the other 
steps over there before you go around that building, look 45 degrees up 
to the right and right up in the corner you will see the PJ Frueh 
Coelner Hofbraeu.  you will want to go back there for the food and beer, 
but for now go to Sion and get the map.  So, turn left on Am Hof, cross 
to the other side and start down the hill.  First right is  
'unter Tashenmacher'.  Turn up there and you will see it.

=======
Peters
=======
If you were to go further up that street then turn left onto Muehlengasse, 
just down on theleft is Peters.  Anyway, once you have that map you have 
most of the ones in the old city.  the trip to barbarossa platz is really 
worth it for those other two, though.  especially because of the wiess, 
and because they are two of the smallest.

- --

                 "Brewers make wort.  Yeast Makes Beer."
                       - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html



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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:08:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: Tips for visiting Koeln / Cologne (part 2)


============
Lommerzheim
============
here is a tip that i dont think many know about - Lommerzheim.

found out about it on saturday and have been there 3 times since.  One
night one of the locals treated me and my buddy to 4 or 5 beers each.

it is a very well known place, but nobody can figure out why it is so 
popular.  there is even a book about it which i just bought.  the best 
people can say is  'the special thing about lommerzheim is that there 
is nothing special about it'.  In the book there is a story about a
restaurant trade show being in town, and that since they are so close to
the Messe grounds some guys who are supposed to be specialists in pubs
and restos ended up a Lommis talking to the guy who would eventually 
write the book.  The "expert" listed off this huge list of exactly what
was wrong with Lommis - dirty, no repairs, poor service (actually, service
is really good, just not what one normally consideres "service" - 
see below), etc,
etc, etc.  After listing off the big list of what was wrong, he paused
for a second or two, then proceeded with "and nonetheless he still pulls
in 8 times what your average pub is pulling in".

after the war Herr Lommerzheim's parents left their hotel to him, and 
he converted it to a pub.  since then literally almost nothing has 
changed, including repair and upkeep!  it looks really like hell outside, 
and if you didnt know you would be scared to go in.  inside it doesnt 
look much better.  for toilets you got out through the back courtyard 
and then there are doors on the right for Damen and Herren.

It is closed tuesday, otherwise open 11 to 2 then 4 til closing (latest 
i have stayed is midnight, so dont know for sure when it closes).  Herr 
Lommerzheim is the waiter (Koebes) and his wife runs the tap (Zappes).  
You get your beer only when he is ready to give it to you.  You dont wave 
or call him to your table.  he goes to the bar, picks up a Kranz full of 
koelsch (the only beer served) from his wife, then makes his circuit to 
the tables.  he has been making the exact same circuit now for over 40 
years.  when he gets to your table with the beer, then you get your 
beer.  no sooner, no later.  when the tray is empty, he goes back for a 
full one and picks up on the circuit right where he left off.  The 
motto is (wish I had the exact German wording on-hand) "noone is forgotten,
noone gets special attention".  At Lommis everyone is treated equally,
be they black, white, red, yellow, plumber, farmer, executive, politician,
whatever ...

there are no menus because aside from few of the regular koelsch foods 
like Halve Hahn (bread roll and cheese) all he serves is a plate of 
Wurst and a Kotlett with fries. STRONGLY recommend the Kotlett.  It is 
literally over 2 inches thick, and some of the tastiest eating you will 
ever have!  And again, you dont call or wave to order - you do so when 
Herr Lommerzheim happens to be at your table with his next round of beer.  
And do it quickly because he doesnt wait.  

Every half hour or so he takes a pause, throws the empty keg on his 
shoulder, takes it out to the back courtyard to set it down by the other 
empties, then he rolls in a fresh keg, heaves it up on the bar, and his 
wife taps it and they start again.

Dont bother trying to talk to him, and consider yourself lucky if he says 
a word to you.  Nowadays he does talk a bit, but legend has it he didnt 
say a word for the first 30 years he ran the place.  he just makes his 
rounds, serves his customers and that is it.  

Lommerzheim is a piece of old cologne which will soon be gone, because 
rumour has it he and his wife will soon be calling it quits.

To get their take the 1,7,8,9 to the Deutzer Freiheit station just on 
the other side of the river from the Cathedral.  The 1,9 go to one 
platform with that name, while the 7,8 go to a completely different 
platform.  If you take the 7,8 then look for the signs to take you to 
the 1,9 platform.  Its all open air so in fact if you look in the 
direction of the rear of the train you just got off, you 
can see the 1,9 platform.

>From the 1,9 platform walk up the stairs onto the foot bridge you 
will see which takes you to either side of the road.  At the top of 
the footbridge look both ways.  In one direction you will see the to 
spires of the cathedral looming over top the buildings.  Go the other 
way.  The footbridge actually takes you right down into the sidestreet 
Siegesstrasse, but i dont think it is marked at that end.  but there 
is only one sidesstreet it could be, and you will see it.

About half way up the street you will see a rundown old building with 
two DAB signs on it - one on either end.  They say 'DAB - Dortmunder 
Aktien Bier'.  Right between the two is the front door.  If you are 
lucky there will be room, but most likely there will be people flowing 
out the door.  I found around 5 to be a good time, and i hear that the 
dayshift from 11 to 14:00 isnt so packed either.  As usual in germany 
if there is a table with some free chairs, just walk over and ask 
'ist hier frei' (ist here fry) to ask if they are free.  Extremely 
friendly people, and reportedly the only place left in the city which 
remains completely untouched - a real gem in therough.

The people are so friendly and always willing to talk and as mentioned 
even buy you beer.  You really cant miss it, and i am sure there are not 
many other north americans who even know about the place as it isnt a 
trendy tourist place in the old city.

p.s. ironically, they are on the web now.  i think the guy that wrote 
the book runs the site http://www.lommi.de/.  Somewhere on there you 
can find a picture of the place.  Oh, here it is 
http://www.lommi.de/photo.htm  If you haven't been to Lommis, then
you haven't been to Cologne, IMO.  



- --

                 "Brewers make wort.  Yeast Makes Beer."
                       - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html



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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:25:23 -0700
From: "Jay Hummer" <jayhumm at zdnetonebox.com>
Subject: Proper venting of propane burners

During a recent remodeling discussion with my wife, I was awarded an
8 1/2 by 14 foot room in our basement for brewing.  While I'm quite happy
to have so much dedicated space, I have a question.  I would like to
move things off of the kitchen stove.  My new brew room is below-grade,
and has two flip-up windows (about 1 1/2 by 2 feet each)in window wells.
 Is there an acceptable (and inexpensive) way to vent a high-pressure
propane burner in a small room?  I've seen hoods made for kilns that
would do the trick, but they're quite expensive.  Residential kitchen
range hoods are cheap, but they're small and wimpy.  I was thinking about
sticking an exaust fan in one of the windows above the burner.  Would
that, along with a carbon monoxide alarm, be safe?  Will the noxious
gases rise to top of my 7-foot ceiling where my 6-foot high nose will
inhale them until I keel over?

- -- 
Jay Hummer



___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:25:04 -0400
From: AJ <email at domain.com>
Subject: Re: Chlorine/Chloramine



Jeff Renner wrote:

> ...another counter-intuitive method of removing chloramines which
> AJ's statement hints at:
>
> >dichloramine and trichloramine are indeed very volatile
>
> and that is to add more chlorine!  This will convert the monochloroamines
> to di- and tri-, which will gas off.  I don't know how much you'd need to
> add, but it wouldn't be much, as we're talking about a few ppms of the
> amines.  I also don't know how practical this would be compared to AJ's
> other suggested methods.

I tried this in doing the research for the BT article and found that it worked
quite well for water I chloraminated myself but did not seem to work so well
for the chloramine in Fairfax County water. I did mention this technique in
the article but only in passing as I did not thoroughly investigate it and
also in #2838 (Sept 1998).

I still think the easiest way to dispose of chloramine is the one Campden
tablet per 20 gal trick. The reasoning is in #2838 from September of 1998
which also talks about the use of Brita pitchers (I think someone asked about
that recently) and GAC in general (in theory it is not consumed when the water
contains only chloramine).



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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:28:53 -0400
From: br at triagemusic.com (B.R. Rolya)
Subject: Re: Tips for visiting Koeln / Cologne

Alan was kind enough to expand on my directionless post:

>Saw BR Rolya's post and figured I'd give some more details.

>Note that below my tip for Lommerzheim - it is very close to the Messe grounds,

I neglected to mention this place because I couldn't remember the full name
or address, just 'Beim Lommi', but it is a truly unique, local experience.
The address is Siegesstrasse 18 and you can also take the 3 or 4 tram to
Bahnhof Deutz/Koeln Arena.  While the sign outside says DAB, they only
serve Paffgen.  Oddly enough, they have hockey memorabilia on the wall.

Across the street from the 3,4 tram platform is Klein Belgie.  Last year,
they only served Interbrew products; it might have changed by now.  It's an
ok place to go if you are desperate for a Belgian fix (they do have a few
things that are currently unavailable in the US).


 - BR
Malted Barley Appreciation Society
New York
http://hbd.org/mbas/





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Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:05:38 -0700
From: "Peter Garofalo" <pgarofa1 at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Good News

Although this may pertain to a relatively small percentage of HBD readers,
the larger good news is something that we all can enjoy, regardless of
Rennerian coordinates.

The New York state fair (currently clogging traffic in my hometown) just
concluded there initial homebrew competition. While many may yawn over this,
listen up: the folks at the fair ponied up all the overhead, including a
great judging venue, the usual lunch for the judges, and cash prizes for
first, second, and third best-of-show ($100, $75, and $50, respectively).
They charged a normal fee ($6 for the first entry and $4 for each after),
and best of all, their enthusiasm was not the least bit dampened by the
relatively low number of entries (83). Instead, they compared it to the wine
competition, which started out quite small but now hosts several hundred
entries.

My points are two: first, if you live in NY state, pencil in mid-August as
the annual date for this competition. Second, it's great to see something
this positive for the homebrewing community as a whole. We're actually being
treated with the respect given to winemakers! I did not detect a single
derogatory remark at the awards ceremony this past Saturday. Most of the
folks who wandered by seemed a bit dazed, but it's a start.

Hey, did you know that they also competitively judge silage at the NY state
fair? Imagine the palate fatigue! ;-(

Cheers,

Peter Garofalo
Syracuse, NY
(868, 93 Rennerian? Help me, Jason!)



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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:13:40 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report


			The Jethro Gump Report
Stephen Ross, "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" states,
>>I'm not racking to a secondary for my first brew.
>>Is it possible to safely bulk-prime a primary before bottling?
>Yes, but it can be tricky with a dry yeast; they tend to not be as
>flocculent IMO as highly flocculent liquid yeasts.

	Some dry yeasts are as flocculant as death... I defy any yeast to out flocc
Nottingham...Certainly, "liquid yeast" is not synonymous with "flocculant."

>From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff McNally)
>Subject: re: Jethro's report on urea
>Does anyone (Rob?) have info on the ingredients used in Lallemand or
>J.E. Siebel brand's of yeast nutrients?
>Note for Rob: I have tried sending you email in the past, but it
>bounced because your domain name (isunet.net) is not in my name server's
>host table.  Can you send me the IP address for this domain so that I
>can add it to my local host table?

     Jeff, I don't know the ingredients...but should soon be able to advise
you.
     As for the IP address....206.52.51.173 is the random address I am
assigned to tonight...maybe this helps?

Cheers!
Jethro Gump



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Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:13:41 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report..

			The Jethro Gump Report
>From: "Charlie Papazian" <charlie at aob.org>
>Subject: Taking a walk on the hot side

     Hey, Charlie's here! Has this happened before? In a non-AHA related
post? I don't think so!
     WELCOME!!

> I haven't been following the entire thread about hot side aeration and
>homebrewing.  But I must admit it is not and never has been a very big
>concern for me.  I continue to use the procedures outlined in my book and
>make beer that seems excellent to me.
>I have seen hotside aeration in some the most classic and famous breweries
>in Belgium, England and the United States -- I'm sure the beers made by
>these breweries I have seen with my own eyes are some of you very
favorites.
>There is no ill effect on the quality of their beers that I perceive.

     Is it not true that some HSA is what indeed gives those beers the
qualities that have made them not only famous in their homelands, but also,
perhaps ...is what might be a factor in their 'deteriorated' perceived
quality when that same beer reaches our shores? (Or even travels from the
eastern edge of Iowa to Ames, a scant 3 hour drive?)
     I can't say that I have had more imports with defects than I have had
micro's with defects...but I have surely had my share of 'cardboardy' Bass,
and other imports...(Is it HSA, or packaging O2 pickup? Who knows?)
     Time, transport conditions, also share the stage here.... rather than
there...yes?

>In fact I've seen a lot of older breweries upgrade to newer equipment and
>modern "wiser" technology and processes, only  to lose the house quality
>that made their beer so endearing and legendary.  The modern approach has
>resulted in these beers becoming a ghost of their former selves.  Not
>interesting to me any longer.

     Who could disagree with this? But is reduction of HSA the only change
in practice? Not by a long shot!
     Most concerns I hear reflect on a loss of the 'wood.' (fermenters)

>I go to many professional brewing conferences and I often despair that
>modern wisdom is often taken so literally without consideration of
>traditional flavors that we've come to appreciate.  I don't think we are
>looking for the ultimately cleanest and most stable of beers.  If you are
>then you are in the league of light lager brewers that sell and export
their
>beers.

     Charlie, Love ya, sir...but respectfully......selling and exporting is
bad?
     The "traditional flavours?" You mean the ones that have the cellarman
working on casks, and if not served rapidly enough, toss it down the drain?
     As homebrewers, we do not have to serve the God of clean packaging, and
calculating transport times and temps...as cellarmen don't. But we should be
aware of modern science, and what it CAN impart to our brewing practices...
     Otherwise, we run the risk of being as 'traditional' as the bloke who
stated that yeast....

       "..... when dispersed in water, breaks down into
an infinite number of small spheres. If these spheres are
transferred to an aqueous solution of sugar they develop into small
animals. They
are endowed with a sort of suction trunk with which they gulp up the
sugar from the solution. Digestion is immediately and clearly
recognizable because of the discharge if excrements. These animals
evacuate ethyl alcohol from  their bowels and carbon dioxide from their
urinary
organs. Thus one  can observe how a specifically lighter fluid is exuded
from the anus and rises vertically whereas a stream of carbon dioxide is
ejected at very short intervals from their enormously large genitals."
                             by Fredrich Woehier and Justus Von Liebig
Published in the annals of Chemistry Volume 29, 1839

     Now, we all know this is rubbish....but we also know that most
homebrewers don't package for the long term. In fact, if in their first year
as a brewer, I am sure the brew doesn't last for more than a month! HSA, no
prob!
     But, I agree with you, we are not looking for the most stable of beers.
What we are trying to do is learn from the art of our predecessors, and the
science of our contemporaries...and combine them to aid us in the quest to
perfect our practice.
     An appreciation of the deleterious effects of HSA is part of that.
     And as for light lager beers...who would argue that they don't provide
a place to hide defects? And that this fact alone ensures that they avoid
HSA?
     Now why would this make a serious brewer think, "Hey, it's an Old
Ale...why worry about defects?"

>  I take the care of stabilizing my beer by keeping it in a cool place and
>don't transport it around and don't vary temperatures.  This goes sooooo
>much farther in preserving the qualities of beer than extreme attention to
>hot side aeration. I think.

     Agreed.
     But Sir, you also don't face the trials of the brewer who scored huge
in Round 1 of National Comp's, when that same bottled batch is scorned by
the Judges in Round 2, some months, Time Zones, and temperature variations
later. As a Judge, I often say, "It is obvious that this beer hasn't
traveled well." HSA IS a factor.

>Of course adding a pinch of cinnamon to my mash may be helping avoid hot
>side aeration.  Cinnamon is a strong antioxidant during the mashing
process,
>so I have been told by some very knowledgeable old time Dutch brewers.

     So, some old time Dutch brewers advocate using an adjunct to reduce
HSA? Maybe our predecessors DID know what they were talking about?
     Then again...maybe in another 20...or 100 years...they will say we were
all wasting our time with HSA.
     But for my time, ANY even incremental improvement I can add to my brew
is worth it! Including perhaps the cinnamon you allude to in your "Dutch
Master's" closing line!

	So, Charlie, I guess we agree to dis-agree. I believe in avoiding HSA, but
then maybe the reality is you do too...what with cinnamon in the mash...and
not letting the brew travel. I won't argue that HSA is the greatest of
concerns for many brewers...yet it should be a concern to the developed
brewer, who gains appreciation of his craft to degrees that allow him to
make simple adjustments to his brewing routine to avoid problems that don't
concern less knowledgeable brewers or sophisticated beers.

Papazian's Books.....
     Many folks have commented on Charlie and his impact on brewing...and
his writings. Having dis-agreed with some of his points in the above, I must
state my brewing background began with Charlie and NCJOHB in '88...and the
highpoint of my brewing life must have been when he hung the Gold Medal  at 
GABF in '96 around my neck. I owe him a lot.
     And I have gained a lot by being a member of the AHA, the Institute for
Brewing Studies, and by having access to resources provided by the
Association of Brewers, like GABF, and Brewer's Publications. All of these
are Charlie. We all owe him a lot.
     The fact that modern brewing knowledge ebbs and flows around
speculation, theory, trial, experiment, and accepted practice...is as old as
mankind...for any subject. Brewing is no different.

     The fact that Charlie is here on the hBD is new.....and I welcome it!
And that I should dis-agree with him on certain points is elemental to
learning, argument and discovery.
     BUT....
     I'll paraphrase 2 leaders...
     Michael Jackson..."Contemporary American Brewing Leads the World." IBS
CBC, Phoenix, 1999.
     Fred Eckhardt....."Papazian Made Modern American Brewing." NHC, BOA
Meeting, Detroit, 2000.

     I can't disagree.....and I look forward to his continued interest in
posting on the hBD to negate any inference that he has abandoned his
roots...homebrewing, in favor of the more professional realms.....

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
brewer at isunet.net
jethro at isunet.net
gump at jethrogump.com
RobMoline at aob.org

 "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



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---