HOMEBREW Digest #3419 Sat 02 September 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Another Stupid Homebrewer Trick ("Jeffry D Luck")
  Dead Space Momily ("Jack Schmidling")
  idophor in a corny (Clark)
  Charlie, etc. ("John Herman")
  FW & MASH hopping (Randy Ricchi)
  Re:Charlie!!! Charlie!!! (markh)
  Just Some Things. (AZ4RAYS)
  "Fearless Brewing: The Beer Maker's Bible" by Brian Kunath ("Matt and/or Hazel Tolley")
  hops and dogs (Edward Doernberg)
  Book Review (Des Egan)
  malt mils (Edward Doernberg)
  head found in fish,Sterile Water Yeast Storage ("Graham Sanders")
  rain water (Edward Doernberg)
  using rain water (Mike Foster)
  fridge fan (fridgeguy)
  Traveling Damage (Bob Hall)
  HSA, are we there yet? ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  re: hot side/ cold side and other oxidations (Lou.Heavner)
  Re: Hops & Dogs (Some Guy)
  unmalted  barley (perry.johnson-green)
  Really Big Brain (TM). O'Connor's (Dave Burley)
  Choosing clubs carefully ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
  Inverted carboy systems ("Javier Blanco")
  HSA and Hops (Jim Bermingham)
  Re: Notes from Charlie P. (Spencer W Thomas)
  Charlie & Advertising ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Charlie, Phil and Lynne ("Gordon Strong")
  Mash-in and Club Management ("Rick Theiner         ")
  Re: Using rain water (Project One)
  Yeast Ranching ("Richardson, Martin")
  Ahhh, there's the (HSA) rub.../ Chilly Yeast (mohrstrom)
  High Morality Rates in yeast ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:27:00 -0700 From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com> Subject: Another Stupid Homebrewer Trick These homebrewer war stories remind me of a conversation I had with a 'fellow brewer'. He was consistently surprised how well-rounded my beers were, where his were harsh and bitter. He asked me my process and I went through the whole shpeel with him nodding his head in the 'me too' fashion. (We both bottle rather than keg.) Then I got to the 'set it asside for 3 weeks, then enjoy' part, and he says, "3 Weeks!?! I usually crack mine after a few days. I've never even had a bottle last longer than 3 weeks!" *?!?* Despite my recommendations, he seemed determined to crawl back into the Homebrewers are Drunks camp. (Sorry, Pat, there are a few.) Jeff Luck Salt Lake City, UT USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:24:54 -0500 From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net> Subject: Dead Space Momily All the concen for the lost wort under a false bottom may be a great sales pitch for an EASYMASHER but in reality, there should be nothing in that dead space worth worrying about. The wort under the false bottom has the same gravity as the wort above it and when sparging is complete, it is, for all practical purposes, water. You lose nothing but an extra gallon of sparge water. js ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm Home Page: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos http://user.mc.net/arf Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:36:55 -0400 From: Clark <clark at capital.net> Subject: idophor in a corny Hi list, I have finally purchased my kegging setup. I got a used corny, a dual gauge regulator, 5 lb CO2 bottle (filled), replacement "O" rings and all necessary hoses fittings and attachments for $165. I may have been able to do better on the price, but I had the cash and away I go. I also had an additional keg received as a gift from my kids at Christmas. I rinsed this already clean keg with water and then filled it with an idophor solution for about a half hour. I then pumped this solution into my first keg and sealed it. My sons rootbeer now fills the first keg, so it looks like this will be the designated soda keg. My question is how long can I leave the idophor solution in my designated beer keg? Will there be any deterioration of the stainless with prolonged contact? Is there another recommendation for a sanitizer to use in the kegs? That's it. Should be an easy one for some of you. Thanks for the help. Dave Clark Eagle Bridge, New York Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:26:22 -0400 From: "John Herman" <johnvic at earthlink.net> Subject: Charlie, etc. I agree with so many points here. Papazian got me started and I'm glad for that! I also followed a piece his advice. Buy lots of books, read through them, and use what works for you. Just my opinion. John Herman johnvic at earthlink.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:44:00 -0400 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: FW & MASH hopping There has been much talk lately of first wort and mash hopping. I have FWH'd for sometime now, and in spite of my earlier skepticism, am now quite a believer in the technique. I remember reading that FWH was not always a good idea with higher alpha hops. I'm wondering how true that is, and does it also apply to mash hopping? Specifically, I'm interested in trying an APA, mash hopping with Chinook, and FWH with Chinook also. Has anyone tried this? Do Chinook hops lend themselves well to these techniques? TIA. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:14:52 -0500 From: markh at netdot.com Subject: Re:Charlie!!! Charlie!!! And let us all say, "relax, don't worry, have a homebrew"... I'm with 'ya Dave, and when the "artbrew" arrives in Texas, I'm gonna go walkabout to the Burradoo Hilton. The man was at the right place at the right time, had the right charisma, and got a lot of people interested in ho, er,craftbrewing, which is why we in the U.S. have such a damn fine selection of products to choose from for our hobby.Yeah, Noonan and the rest are good also, but let us not forget the "guru" who led us out of the wilderness of megaswill. Mark Futilely attempting a lager where it's been 103F for the last 60 effing days... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:23:28 EDT From: AZ4RAYS at aol.com Subject: Just Some Things. Just had to jump in here and give my two cents worth. Living in the desert of Yuma Arizona, there is currently no Homebrew supplier for me to support. A three hour drive to San Diego, Phoenix, or Tucson is as good as it gets. I have been ordering from the internet almost since I started Brewing. I have had in that two year period many excellent experiences with St. Pats in Texas, and Lynne O'Connor in particular. I have always received what I ordered in mint condition and at a price low enough to make up for the shipping. Obviously I can't afford to order sacks of grain at nearly $20.00 shipping apiece, so I have to pick them up on trips out of town. Lynne has always had a phone message on my machine whenever there was any question or problem with my order. She has always responded to E-mail requests from me in a prompt and courteous manner. Lynne has offered advice and hints to me in my beermaking and helped me get interested and started in winemaking. I am convinced she is a homebrewer at heart and in practice, and does all in her power to build our craft. I salute you Lynne, and Thank You for your presence on HBD and AHA. The rest of you can take a giant leap!!! Charlie is a Hero to the homebrewing world! His book is kind of old and not necessarily up to the latest technology, but some of you Bowtie Boookworms need to forget some of your technology and get a life! Jesus, have a homebrew and relax, see Charlie's book as what it is, a timeless classic which has brought many of us into this wort. (pun intended) BTW, I think Charlie deserves whatever salary he can get! Besides, I used to wear some of those outfits worn in those pictures, grant you it was a loonnnnng time ago. Marc Sedam is a brewing GENIUS. I have picked up a ton of brewing skill from him, foremost being the concept of MASH HOPPING. If you want to find the fresh hop flavor and aroma potential of a beer or a particular hop variety, TRY IT! If you haven't tried mash hopping, shut up or put some in your next batch. The theory is crap. The practice is heavenly, it helps the mash efficiency, it helps clear runoffs and cut down on stuck mashes, it makes a better beer! I can't explain, theorise, or equate it. All I can do is tell you I tried it and it works. One last note to my brewing buddies, most of you read this rag daily, I love you guys! And some of you girls. Rob, Marc, George, Chad, Kevin, Janis, All you Daves, Mark, Angie, Terry, Gary, Russ, Joe, Doug, Kristen & Tim, etc. etc Yeah especially you, Tony! You guys Rock the pants off this bunch of First Wort Hoppers!!! BORING, gag. Friends don't let Friends drink Bud! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:31:00 +0100 From: "Matt and/or Hazel Tolley" <tolmh at tpg.com.au> Subject: "Fearless Brewing: The Beer Maker's Bible" by Brian Kunath > From: kiewel at mail.chem.tamu.edu (Kurt Kiewel) > I would like to recommend a different book for the > new brewer: > > "Fearless Brewing: The Beer Maker's Bible" by Brian Kunath. This was the second book I bought, although my Australian-bought copy (published by New Burlington in London) is labelled 'Mastering Homebrew: The Beer Maker's Bible'. I'll be the first to admit that I bought it for the pictures, and I heartily recommend it to newbies for that very reason - it was great to see big colour closeups of the stuff I'd been reading about while lurking on HBD. If only they had this in Aussie K-Marts instead of Sampson's 'Understanding Beermaking' :). This book really cleared up some of the mysteries of all-grain brewing for me - poorly worded instructions in another publication had led me to believe that you lautered, then sparged, and if it looked cloudy, you tipped the whole lot back into your sparging bucket and started again til it ran clear :). Cheers! ...Matt... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:47:32 +0800 From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au> Subject: hops and dogs I just spoke to my vet. she had actually herd of this before but didn't no any details of treatment. she said it was likely not related to breed but the bogs size age and liver condition and the amount of hops consumed. just one more angle but it still comes down to don't let the dog eat the hops. Edward Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:53:17 +1000 From: Des Egan <degan at Bendigo.vic.gov.au> Subject: Book Review As a newbie to home brewing and lurker on this list I would support Kurt Kiewel's comments about the brewing book "Fearless Brewing: The Beer Makers Bible" by Brian Kunath ( Kun'oth? - he would have had a miserable childhood in Oz with a surname like that!) I also found it on a remainder table last week (published 1998) and I have found the explanations easy to follow and the colour pictures to be excellent quality. It would provide newcomers with an excellent appreciation of the art of brewing from extract through to all-grain (no affiliation etc). It may or not be indicative that the only other brewing book I own is Charlie Pap's TNCJoH. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:15:57 +0800 From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au> Subject: malt mils I am considering buying a malt mill. The only place in peth that has them in stock only has the ones that look like a spinning disk on the end of a meat mincer. Shipping would kill me on any other type. There is one other place that will get one in but it's the same type. Should I by this one which isn't ideal or try to build one. If I do nothing then I am just using the cheap kind at the store instead of at home. Are there any sits with instructions on how to build a malt mill. I have access to wood working tools but only limited metal working (like a drill and a saw only). Edward Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:52:39 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: head found in fish,Sterile Water Yeast Storage G'day All So hows the brain box handling all this high tech stuff. Its not really that bad. Before I get into that I have to tell. Now anyone who knows people from the north of this land, we often will have a go at you all (in good fun). While every-thing is bigger, baddr, deadlier up here, most know when i am having a lend of you. But every now and then the North throws up a surprise. This is hot off the press (length of cue depending) but is true blue, ridgy-didge, fair dinkum. Headline on the news "Mans head found in Fish". Now yes hard to believe (fish you lot would keep we would use as bait), but at the local fish processing plant, a guy gutted a large cod and out flopped a human head. Still had skin, hair, facial features etc - quite recognizable. But it was only the head nothing else was found. The mystery is the fish was caught many miles from the shore. Funny thing, when the manager was asked, "was the guy who found it upset" he said "Na! they quite robost fellas up here, he just pushed it aside, kept working and called me over." That the true Nth QLD spirit. So besides loosing American tourists at sea, the odd one eaten by a saltie, and gential grabing frogs, we have Now Head Hunting Cod. - Survivors watch out! Now I have covered the principle and how to do it (yes back to yeast), now its time to cover how to prepare the plates and test tubes -vials. Now we first have to prepare some agar plates into petre-dishes. This is dead easy. You first need to go and get some agar. A chinese supermarket is ideal. I didn't have one in the deep north of Aus, so I got the famous brewer in Sydney (the big smoke), Steve Lacey - creator of the brand new style of beer called a German Pale Ale to get me some. Beg borrow steal, but get some agar, its cheep as chips. You also need some dried malt extract (DME). Now i have an Autoclav, set to a working pressure of 15 lbs. It will build up on the guage to about 250 kPa and a temp of about 135c. That works fine. Oh I hear, my pressure cooker doesn't have all that fancy dials. Dont worry, just put water in the bottom and check the instruction to get roughly the right weight. Two key points, you need it to run for about half an hour at that hissing stage to steralise your stuff (oh by the way, if someone who actually has one can give the right parameter by all means chime in, I only use an autoclav, but I know for a craftbrewer a pressure cooker will work) Now I have found it a real pain messuring mixing and pouring agar soloution into petre dishes. There is a far easier way. But first what sort of water to use. Ordinary tap water. If its drinkable use it. For sterile water storage, distilled water is a big no-no. You need some of the disolved salts in the water to maintain equilibrium with the yeast. All I do is let it stand then boil it twice in a kettle. Now put a level teaspoon of DME in each dish. Get a tiny winy teaspoon and put in the dried agar (its actually 0.5 gram) that about the amount the size of a small to medium pea (thats pea and not pee). Pour in hot water just to cover the bottom of the plate and give a gentle stir. Dont worry if it doesn't mix properly, it does so in the pressure cooker. Place carefully in the cooker. Position lids so they are 3/4 on, so they can be easy pushed over the dish later. Thats it, blast away. Let it go for about a half and hour, then let it sit for another half and hour. Open lid carefully while still hot (do I have to mention the bleeden obvious about safety), and with the lid slightly ajar, push the lids on the dishes with a clean thing-a- mah-bob, put the lid back on and let it cool. When its cool, you'll have nice sterile agar plates. Into the fridge to use whenever. If you are reculturing 'mother cultures, I add a little bit of an antibiotic tablet as well. And the cost per plate to make. I work it out to be 2 cents a plates. Just affordable. (Now whats the cost of a culture again). The test tubes/vials are similar. Put about an inch of boiled tap water in the bottom, lid on top ready to seal, and again let her rip.. Seal test tubes/vial as hot as you can bear to touch the thing. I actually use these neat rubber stoppers for test tubes. They allow the pressure to escape, (without blowing off), but as it cooles the stoppers are "sucked in" (not correct term to those who have studied physics but I'm writing to the masses). Thus my test tubes seal themselves. They are ready to use. Put allumnium foil over the top of each and store. Next, some of the easy techniques you should master to stop, (minumise) infection. Shout Graham Sanders oh Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:07:38 -0500 From: "T & S Klepfer" <lee-thomas at indian-creek.net> Long time lurker, first time poster. On another topic, personally I enjoy the often off-topic banter from you guys Down Under, even if I don't always understand the lingo. Much more enjoyable than some of the long-winded technical discourse and debate from dueling "experts". As the saying goes - to get 10 experts to agree you have to shoot 9. Nice one Lee, and well put. Now sucking up to the likes of me is well and good. You can even bend my ear on occasion. I'll even give you the slugs if you like. But you still have to supply me with the carton if you want come over here. On the other hand, nothing like a first timer dropping himself right in it. Knock one back for me. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:59:25 +0800 From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au> Subject: rain water I wouldn't use rain water where i live the air is to polluted. if you live in a city then I wouldn't, if you live in a reasonably pollution free aria such as a small town or in the country then yes. Just know that it has no more minerals than distilled water. Edward Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:44:41 -0400 From: Mike Foster <mike at asyoulikeit.org> Subject: using rain water Makes me shudder to hear somebody say rainwater is "clean". Chlorine-free, I'll believe. Clean? No. Rainwater will be full of airborn pollutants. This will, of course, vary from location to location. Rainwater in the middle of Montana I might use. Rainwater in L.A., New York City, or Detroit, I probably would not trust. - -- Wolfger http://www.asyoulikeit.org/wolfger We must overcome the notion that we must be regular... it robs you of the chance to be extraordinary and leads you to the mediocre. - -- Uta Hagen Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:40:48 -0400 From: fridgeguy at voyager.net Subject: fridge fan Greetings folks, In HBD #3416, Paul Dey asks how to deal with the noisy evaporator fan in his newly acquired fridge. Almost all evaporator fan motors in domestic fridges have sleeve bearings. Over time they dry out and start to wear, or the original lubrication degenerates into a sticky varnish. I've rescued a large number of such motors by simply applying a *small* drop of light oil (like sewing machine oil or "3 in 1(tm)") to each bearing. Rotate the fan by hand to distribute the oil and reinstall. If the fan is difficult to turn, add a drop or two of a petroleum solvent, such as kerosene (parrafin) to each bearing and rotate by hand until the motor turns freely. Try to remove as much of the solvent as possible from the bearings by dabbing with a rag or tissue. Oil the bearings as described above and reinstall the motor. If the motor has been noisy for a very long time, the sleeve bearings may have worn to the point where simply oiling the bearings won't stop the noise. In this case, replace the motor. Whirlpool makes/made a very large number of the Kenmore fridges and parts are readily available at any appliance parts store. Bring the motor to compare. A replacement should cost less than $20. Hope this helps! - ---------------------------------------- Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo fridgeguy at voyager.net - -- Is your email secure? http://www.pop3now.com (c) 1998-2000 secureFront Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:45:00 -0700 From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org> Subject: Traveling Damage Dr. Pivo writes: "Anyone who has carted kegs around should be familiar with "transport damage" flavours. If not, take one of two twin kegs, load it in the car boot, and then drive around a few kilometres (a bumpy dirt road will help), and then put the keg back next to its twin, and let them sit until the next day.... the difference between them should be obvious. This is also something I've not heard an adequate explanation for, but falls in the "oxidation" flavour family. I do believe it is a "kinetic energy thing" that gets those electrons whipping (how's that for a bogus scienterrific explanation?)." Thanks for the explanation Doc. Could this have been the reason for the following?: .... Several years ago, in two separate incidences, I had pubtenders in the Belfast area apologize for the quality of their Guiness with the explanation "It doesn't travel well, and we're so far from Dublin." I thought the first fellow was putting me on, but when it happened again I was forced to reconsider. Of course, to my unsophisticated palate, it all tasted great. Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:56:17 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: HSA, are we there yet? John or Barb Sullivan asked: >>Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't understand how oxygen can react with wort without somehow being mixed or dissolved into the wort.<< Is this at all like how the steel frame around my brewing burners rust? I'm sure oxygen is not dissolving into the steel but the areas of highest heat concentration show increased rusting. The rust *appears* to be happening at the surface, not starting from the interior of the steel. How's that for comparing apples and oranges? N.P. Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:12:08 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: re: hot side/ cold side and other oxidations "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> writes in part: >>>>>> 2) Raising temperature will not only speed oxidation, but I am convinced at some stages cause it. I've never read a single word in print to explain the phenomenon, but I have mentioned here that the "rising temp in the secondary" is a way to make a beer that not only tastes of "old barrel" immediately, but gets worse with time, even if you get the temp down later. Why, this phenomenon even caused me to build an entire refrigerated "cool room" in my cellar just to avoid that happening again at this time of year. There is an old Czech expression: "When the plums are ripe, no beer is good", and I have wondered if this does not come from the days of fairly primitive refrigeration, and that one just couldn't manage the cellar temps in August... but then again I wonder about a lot of irrelevant nonsense. <<<<<< Dr Fix is widely recognized on HBD as one of, if not the first to caution about HSA. Interestingly, though, the only times I have heard him talk, he was much more concerned about storage temperature and its contribution to shelf life and oxidation based degradation. The thing about HSA, whether it's impact on flavor is significant or not, is that it is relatively easy to avoid or minimize. Just do it! Temperature control, especially of 5 - 10 cases of bottled beer or more, is a bigger problem. We just don't tend to have cold cellars down in this neck of the woods. The only holes we drill in the ground are wells or swimming pools. Frankly, I'm amazed homebrewers haven't beaten a bath to KenBob Schwartz's door for a fermenchiller and about the only people I envy, are those who are/have constructed their own cold storage rooms. Cheers! Lou Heavner - Austin, TX, where it will continue to rise above 100 DegF for the next few weeks. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:38:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Re: Hops & Dogs Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... AJ writes... > J. Marvin Campbell's post reminded me that some of herbals sold at pet > stores for dogs contain hops as one of the ingredients. AJ: Was the bottle labelled "Spot" Remover, by any chance :-P (Oh, I just kill myself sometimes...) - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:47:22 -0300 From: perry.johnson-green at acadiau.ca Subject: unmalted barley Does anybody know of a good source of unmalted barley? I like to grow through the malting process myself, but have a difficult time finding a supplier. thanks Perry Johnson-Green Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:48:52 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Really Big Brain (TM). O'Connor's Brewsters: Pat Babcock must have been referring to me as the HBD contributor with the Really Big Brain(TM), since I have advocated for years boiling your wort with the lid partially (~ 1/6) open <after the first boilup>. This creates a steam jet which keeps the oxygen away from the hot and <reactive> wort surface during the hour boil. You will find the color of your wort will be lighter and the beer will taste much better. - ----------------------------------- As far as Lynne O'connor's comments, I believe the attack here on this business was incorrect and not the proper use for this HBD forum unless actual details can be supplied to each of us in the form of a certified copy proving that the attacker isn't one of those weird types who crop up on the internet all too often. Without such proof I ignore it, which is what I suggest you do. However, I also defend Lynne's right to defend herself in the same forum with the same vigor. As far as my own interaction with O'Connor's, I requested a catalog but it was suggested I go to the website since they were "out of them at the moment and they cost $2.50 ( or some such number) " but that I would get a copy of the catalog, when they were available. I fully intended to order perhaps $100 or more of grain and such right off the bat as I had just moved and needed to replenish my supply. I never received a copy of the catalog, so I voted with my feet and never bothered to order anything and still haven't, which is our real option in dealing with any supplier, isn't it? Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:48:25 -0500 From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <blackwod at rice.edu> Subject: Choosing clubs carefully >Jeff Kenton encourages new homebrewers to join a club. I agree--if the club >is anything like the one he describes. It takes a lot of energy and >leadership to keep a club as vital as the one Jeff describes. Agreed. >Tell-tale signs: central activity at monthly meetings appears to be >the downing of lots of commercial beer, same few or no members bring >homebrew to be evaluated, few or no newish members. Hanging around >a such club is a good >way for new homebrewers to lose interest in the hobby very quickly. Based on my admittedly short tenure with Houston's Foam Rangers and my knowledge of Houston's outlying clubs, The KGB and Mashtronauts, I have to take issue with this assertion. I think that any all-volunteer effort requires a few dedicated individuals at its head to ensure the day-to-day activities of paying the bills, scheduling the events and advance planning take place. You can't have the same people doing these jobs year after year without a measure of burnout. Add to that the fact that many people start brewing when they are young, single and unfettered with a lot of obligations and as a club matures you have brewers whose marriage, kids or job keep them from being those key people or even brewers. New membership IS vital to keeping any club afloat, but I don't think that having a monthly tasting of commercial beer, even a LOT of commercial beer, when consumed in the context of widening the understanding of a style is a bad thing. My primary job within the Foam Rangers, (apart from running the Dixie Cup, October 20 & 21st, 2000..be there!) is providing the Beer of the Month. I go out of my way to provide beers which are not available locally and expand our members understanding of the style. One of the hardest things to get around in recruiting is the fact that our membership is full of "grim brewers" who can argue First Wort Hopping vs. Traditional methods and concern themselves with the intricacies of Hot Side Aeration. That type of in-depth knowledge, while valuable, scares off the extract brewers who don't feel they are in the same league as the all-grain experts. We've been very aggressive in trying to be less intimidating and all of Houston's clubs are dedicated to being fun people to be with, willing to educate the new brewer and to upholding a high standard of technical knowledge and proficiency. -BDB2 Bev D. Blackwood II http://www.bdb2.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:28:11 -0400 From: "Javier Blanco" <Blanco.Javier at NMNH.SI.EDU> Subject: Inverted carboy systems I am new to the list as well as to homebrewing. To long time users of BrewCap and/or Fermentap: could you please share your experiences and any modifications done in order to make these systems more user friendly and to improve their performance? Any significant advantages vs using a carboy and its airlock? I am also trying to get some information on the Party Pig and/or Medicine Rock. Anybody who have experience with these gadgets? How well do they perform? Please, feel free to respond directly to: blanco.javier at nmnh.si.edu Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:23:30 -0500 From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: HSA and Hops Howdy Y'all HSA, HSA, HSA it jest keeps gwine on an' on an' on, as enny body kin plainly see. Ah believe ah said befo'e thet eff'n yo' brew fine beer yo' doesn't hafta wo'ry about HSA. Eff'n yo' make fine beer it seems t'git drunk up long befo'e HSA becomes a facko' life. Th' Good Dr., Th' Baron of Odd Ideas, o' is it Th' Odd Baron who has no Idea?, John Sullivan, an' "Some Guy" muss make mity fine beer. They ain't wo'ried about no HSA in their beers. Ah guess Some Guy ain't wo'ried about HSA, tho' th' mo'e ah read his post ah wonner eff'n he wrote it while he was dreamin'. Now ah knows some beer needs t'age fo' a long time befo'e it is suposed t'be fine. Ah guess eff'n ah's hankerin' somthin' aged I'll drink some beer wif Maw. Thet way ah's suroun'ed by age. Hops in th' yard. Graham, ah too haf allus jest dumped mah spent grains an' hops in th' yard. Th' past few years ah have been warshin' th' hops down wif water when ah clean up. Ah heard somewhar it might be bad fo' houn'dogs. Befo'e then ah nevah had a houn'dog git sick o' die fum eatin' them. Maby its on account o' ah have Blue an' Red Heelers which haf Aestralian blood in them. Dawgone it might be thet city houn'dogs ain't tough inough t'eat them. Ah will hafta try th' asprin an' milk on th' Feral an' Pole' Cats ah have. Eff'n th' baron want's some fresh skunk smell ah can send him one of th' pole' cats eff'n th' milk an' asprin does th' trick. Shet mah mouth! Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:47:43 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Notes from Charlie P. >>>>> "Warren" == Warren White <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> writes: Warren> Paul Gataza quotes Charlie P... Of course adding a pinch Warren> of cinnamon to my mash may be helping avoid hot side Warren> aeration. Cinnamon is a strong antioxidant during the Warren> mashing process, so I have been told by some very Warren> knowledgeable old time Dutch brewers. And here I thought it was coriander (ref: HBD 1576 and following, Nov, 1994, also Zymurgy Special Issue, 1994, p44). No, wait! It's cardamom (ref: HBD 3303, April, 2000). And now! It's cinnamon. Whew. I can't keep up. :-) =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:08:25 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Charlie & Advertising >>Paul Gataza quotes Charlie P... >>Of course adding a pinch of cinnamon to my mash may be helping avoid hot >>side aeration. Cinnamon is a strong antioxidant during the mashing process, Warren White commented: >We just know everyone is going try this one don't we? >I'll be following this thread with interest! Add the cardamom thread of months back to this one and we'll all be making spiced beer! ;-) =================== Kurt Kiewel said: >I think that Lynn O'Conner has made very generous and informative >submissions to the HBD, [snip] >However, I think that she should not be allowed to advertise her products >in an unsolicited fashion on the HBD. She clearly should be able to defend >herself and her reputation against any statements on the HBD but she should >not advertise a new shipment of bottles in this forum. I agree with Kurt here. But to be fair this should not only point to Lynne, it should be a blanket statement directed towards all vendors, shop owners and e-businesses who post on the HBD. Advertising your products, sales, specials, etc... is bad etiquitte in this forum. This is not a vehicle for free advertising, your ads and plugs do nothing to contribute to educational forum that is the HBD. However, it is my opinion that taglines should be allowed which advertize the name of the service, description of the service and contact information. This would be acceptable since it provides the forum with information helpful to the forum members. Let us know that you are there and we'll find out more for ourselves. Let me use one good example: Domenick V. and Primetabs. There are others too, but we won't get into that now. He has posts to this digest which contribute to the free information exchange regarding this hobby and they do not wind up being a shameless plug for Primetabs. His tagline contains information regarding his product and contact information. It is a small, unobtrusive block of text that helped me to find a new product. Without it I may not have known of this product, which I have found to be very helpful, for quite some time. I saw it, investigated it on my own and tried it. Primetabs are now part of my brewing arsenal without it being shoved in my face. DANGER WILL ROBINSON! A MAJOR RANT IS APPROACHING FROM THE WEST! The Internet is a wonderful tool, but in my opinion it has become bastardized by the commercial businesses - just like everything else. I am sick of ads. Everywhere you go, there are ads. I could have a totally free website, but I chose to own my own domain and purchase the hosting just to keep the little free-website-ad-bastard-elves from *&%$ at #ing up my design. OK. I feel better now. The vein in my forehead has stopped throbbing and I've wiped the froth from my mouth. I personally boycott any business which continuously hawks their goods or services in this or any forum. Maybe they don't need my few $$ in the grand scheme of things, but at least I can say "Tough shit. You're not getting mine." As for the he-said-she-said regarding service complaints - everyone is entitled to rebuttal in their own defence. But after that both sides should STFU (figure that one out. Hint: Dice Clay ;-). No one here cares about all the hair-pulling and jumping about from either side of the story. Take the details off-line and please don't waste our bandwidth with this blather. Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "An opinion cannot be wrong - unless it contradicts mine." - me Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:50:35 -0400 From: "Gordon Strong" <strongg at earthlink.net> Subject: Charlie, Phil and Lynne A couple quick comments on topics that are probably old by now... I think Charlie's books were fine for their era, and probably got a lot of people interested in the hobby. But they were pretty much the only game in town then. Better books have since come along that are more complete, have more accurate and current information, and are easier to use as a reference. I used to recommend Dave Miller's book for new brewers, but now recommend Al Korzonas' Homebrewing: Vol 1. While only covering extract brewing, it covers the fundamentals in such depth that it remains a valuable reference even for all-grain brewers. I use it all the time for things like water information, hydrometer correction, and ingredient descriptions. It's also worth noting that the BJCP changed its recommended list of readings to replace CP's TCJOHB with Al K's HBV1. Before I got my Pico System, I used to use a Phil's Phalse Bottom in a 10 gal Gott cooler to mash. Here are a couple tips that I have to improve the experience of using the Phalse Bottom based on about 20 batches' worth of data: 1. Hold a mash paddle or large wooden spoon on top of false bottom, add foundation water, then add grain along with strike water. Remove paddle/spoon when weight of grain is sufficient to hold down false bottom. 2. Split a piece of hose (like you'd use for racking) down the inside and wrap it around the edge of the phalse bottom to make a gasket. Experiment with the diameter of the hose to help get a snug fit in the cooler. 3. Try mashing in a separate container (like a large rectangular picnic cooler). Transfer the mash to the Gott cooler to lauter (use tip #1 while transferring mashed grains.) I think I was happiest with this solution; never had a stuck sparge. Any of these would probably help, as would Dan's recommendation of underletting the strike water. I've ordered from St. Pats among other HB stores and had good experiences. One small carboy was once broken in transit and was promptly replaced without any hassle. Lynne runs a business, provides support to a lot of homebrewing competitions, and volunteers for the AHA board of advisors. While somewhat strident at times, she certainly provides a good service to homebrewers and has every reason to be proud of and defend her business against baseless attacks. In a day when businesses supporting homebrewers continue to dwindle, it's nice to have reputable online places to shop when your local stores don't have the items you need. I think the theme here is that it's hard to watch people who've provided good products and services to homebrewers be needlessly attacked. It's good to encourage improvements and demand excellence, but I'd prefer to see more information sharing and problem solving in this forum and less ranting and flaming. Gordon Strong Beavercreek, OH strongg at earthlink.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:11:06 -0400 From: "Rick Theiner " <Logic at mail.skantech.com> Subject: Mash-in and Club Management This first question was inspired by the question and responses to "Why does the Phalse Bottom phloat?" When I mash in, I put my grain in my mash tun first, which is why I've never had a problem with my Phalse Bottom. I then pour in the heated mash water (generally around 170 F, depending on the ratio of water to grain and where I want my temp to stabilize) and then stir the hell out of the mash. The temp stabilizes, and I cover it. What are the cons to that? The big pro to me is that it's simple and I usually don't have a problem with conversion. Comments? (Incidentally, we just brewed a weizenbock w/ 9# wheat and 8# barley-- I think the guy getting stuck mashes needs to check how fine he's grinding) - ----------- Next question/thought: I started a homebrew club in Greenville, NC 'cos there wasn't one here, and having just moved here, I decided I needed to make some homebrewing friends. That was about 3.5 years ago, and we're definately showing some signs of wear. I'm not complaining about our members and the things that we do, but we're losing steam, and, to tell the truth, didn't have a whole lot of steam to begin with. When we started up, I was the de facto head and everyone pretty much just wanted to follow. We instituted bylaws a year later, and we've been electing officers and appointing directors, but we're still pretty loose on doing things. It's sort of like we have 3 people (one of which reads the HBD and I'm pretty sure he knows who the third guy is) who are interested in having a good club and the rest of the folks want to come to events and meetings and spectate while downing homebrew. (And then we've got the people who see the rare presentation at a meeting as their chance to show how witty they are to the rest of the club.) 3 people that are pretty busy on their own can't run an ideal club. So what are some options? What are some ways that we can move this thing to they type of club that we see in metro areas? Rick Theiner Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:27:40 -0800 From: Project One <project1 at pond.net> Subject: Re: Using rain water At 12:29 AM 8/30/00 -0400, Peter Fitzsimons wrote: >Peter, > >My understanding is that there are 2 problems with using rainwater. First, >the pollutants that it picks up on the way down to the ground. Second, it >lacks minerals which are needed for fermentation. Noonan's "New Brewing >Lager Beer" discusses these points in the water section. > > -------->Denny >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:00:12 +0930 >From: "Peter Fitzsimons" <peterf at senet.com.au> >Subject: Using rain water > >Hi all > >There has been a bit of discussion about water lately in the digest. My >question is about using rain water as it is clean and naturally doesn't have >a problem with chlorine of any sort. > >What are the pros and cons of using rain water and what styles of beer would >benefit from using it ? > >Thanks > >Peter Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 03:49:31 +1000 From: "Richardson, Martin" <RicharMP at Pasminco.com.au> Subject: Yeast Ranching G'day all, I have just come across one of the best presented web sites on yeast ranching that I have ever seen. It would be a great resource for beginners interested in maintaining their own yeast supply and useful for experienced ranchers alike. It includes storage under distilled water too! http://web.tiscalinet.it/barboteur/beer/yeast_E.html Hope this helps, Martin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:34:34 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphreypc.com Subject: Ahhh, there's the (HSA) rub.../ Chilly Yeast SomeDude's thinking what I've been thinking: > Years ago, I had heard that HSA occurs at the interface > of the wort and the air, and this is why dissolution of > O2 in the beer - virtually impossible in hot wort - is > not a consideration. Meaning that the more surface area, the greater the potential for oxidation (whether the O2 is dissolved, or not). The worst case scenarios would be foaming (possibly from 02 coming _out_ of solution), and wort aerosols from splash/spray. Then again, could it be that some folks *like* the taste of cardboard. (Remember "Space Food Bars" in the early seventies???) > (Hmmm - this kinda flies in the face of AB's > aeration tower thingy, though.) Maybe not ... Consider A-B's "Born on Date" campaign to keep the shelf stock from growing old. * * * * * Graham shouts on yeast: > Even freezing it doesn't guarantee a high morality rate. I can attest to that. Even through the cold Michigan winters, the little budders are as promiscuous as ever ... Mark (returning you to your regularly scheduled self-serving, crassly commercial, homebrew shop shill) in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:06:47 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: High Morality Rates in yeast Graham Sanders <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> writes on storing yeast: "Even freezing it doesn't guarantee a high morality rate." Has anyone else had problems with immoral or amoral yeasts? Could it be that for proper reproduction oxygen isn't enough, we should also be sure to induce the proper moral atmosphere? Perhaps after oxygenating the wort, the yeast could benefit from a stern lecture... Did you mean "low mortality rate" Graham, or am I missing something here? tongue firmly in cheek, Stephen Ross Return to table of contents
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