---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Mild Ale, Mash Hopping & Lychee Lambic ("Warren White")
  Apologies for Lychee Lambic ("Warren White")
  St Pats 3 tier system (mark king)
  Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde ("John Lovett")
  Re: Munich Malt in an Alt (Brad McMahon)
  Wyeast Shampoo Tubes - A datapoint/observation ("Kevin Imel")
  re: Corking beer ("Leland Predon")
  ESB Has Immersion Chillers ("Warren White")
  Potatoe Pils ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  So What Have I Achieved? ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Otter malt and cloudy beer? ("Walter H. Lewis III")
  100% munich alt ("Czerpak, Pete")
  travelling beer (Jeff Renner)
  HBD Illustrated ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  RE: Daniels' DGB ("Brian Lundeen")
  Brewing book recommendation (RiedelD)
  Perils of Traveling Beer (Richard Foote)
  Anybody need some StarSan? / FWH ("Daniel C Stedman")
  Spinning Disk Mills (Booth)
  re: more than text (Jim Adwell)
  re :Wort Chillers ("John Lovett")
  how long before giving up on yeast? (Rama Roberts)
  Re: Munich Malt in Alt (Matthew Arnold)
  Re: Homebrewing for Dummies ("Warren White")
  Re: New Glarus beer in Madison? (eric and SUSAN)
  Aaagggghhhhh!!!! ("Pat Babcock")
  Brussels Rambling & 't Spinnekopje ("FatCat")
  Re:electric stove, new gas burner (MaxxBaker)


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 10:45:22 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Mild Ale, Mash Hopping & Lychee Lambic

Wotcher HBDrs... 2 questions & 1 statement

Just finished reading "Mild Ale" by David Satula, this has to be the best of 
the Classic Styles series so far IMHO, very well written, concise and 
enjoyable, David Satula has to be a brewer who loves his Real Ales.
He explains in great detail about history, methods, techniques etc. Lists 
ingredients in detail, alternatives and Breweries, anyone who loves this 
style (and I do) or any Real Ale lover for that matter would get a lot out 
of this.
I always tend to guage the impact of the Classic Styles series by how 
quickly I'm inspired to go out and make a batch from one of the recipes etc. 
Well with this book I started reading it last Sunday and I've got my grain 
bill sorted out and ready to brew this weekend!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On to the mash hopping merry-go-round, I was wondering if it is suitable for 
use in decotion mashing?
After saccrification I usually decoct my grain to mash-out temp, due to the 
limited size of my mash tun.
Will pulling a decoction with hops in the mash ruin the whole idea or will 
it just add a slight bitterness increase due to the boiling?
Someone's got to have encountered this conundrum before, any ideas?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Last and by no means least, I received a couple of personal flames (emails) 
regarding my lampooning of a Chinese accent, this was only meant for a bit 
of humour, I am by no means a biggot, it's all been done before, why do 
people instantly hop on the racist/biggot bandwagon everytime some does a 
parody of someone from another country?
Yeah I'm really sure I'm the first to do this... If those who sent the 
flames pull their heads out of their arses/asses long enough to look I even 
do a very good one of my fellow-Australians a little further up the HBD 
track!
So learn to laugh folks, not sook at everything that goes slightly off the 
brewing track (within reason).
So to those people - LIGHTEN UP! (You know who you are).
And if this offends you as well, and it most likely will...

Flame me again! Because my arse is made from asbestos!

Ciao! (Oh no! I just offended another Race/Creed/Culture)
Warren L. White - Melbourne, Australia
(Apologies in advance for Bandwidth)

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:07:02 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Apologies for Lychee Lambic

P.S. Folks
Apologies to Graham Sanders who has already informed me via special post 
from the Buradoo Hilton he plans to develop a special Buffalo hide Cat 'O' 
Nine Tails specifically for me in which he will flog me to within an inch of 
me life for making a joke about his latest imbibing pleasure namely his 
Lychee Lambic (ouch!)
Sorry Graham, and to show my remorse I plan to make parley by developing a 
Feijoa Lambic but I can't think off hand of the country of origin of the 
Feijoa, so I can't be making no joke about it mon! Jeez! I'll have the 
Rastafarians on my back now!

An de fun don't don mon! Gimme som respec mon!
Jah Cool runnins, Jah first runnins etc.
Warren L. White, Melbourne Australia
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Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 19:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: mark king <car_diagnostics at yahoo.com>
Subject: St Pats 3 tier system

From: "Mark King" <car_diagnostics at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: St Pats 3 tier system
 
   Thanks to all for your great tips and colorful
post.
 I have been reading hbd religiously for several
months
 and i've been contemplating buying the St Pats three
 tier system  http://www.stpats.com/3levsys.htm
 and a 12.2 gallon conical fermenter.  
      http://www.morebeer.com/conicalferm.html 
 reason being is that i brew with my brother at his
 home, and his wife is anal retententive when it comes
 to neatness and she is getting tired of our various
 home made brewing contraptions (old beer kegs etc).
 so we have sold her on a more professional looking
 setup. I was wondering if someone could give me some
 advice on this type of setup or a similar (looking)
 one in the same price range ($2300 +/-).
                               thanks

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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:51:16 +1100
From: "John Lovett" <john.lovett at amcor.com.au>
Subject: Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde

>Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 08:33:06 EST
>From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Wyeast 3522, Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde
>
[...]
>Second question. I want to be a bit of a wanker and put some of my Tripel
in
>champagne bottles "A La Grand Reserve" My question being as follows... How
>the bloody hell does one get these corks into the bottle? You know the type
>of corks I mean... The ones that look like little mushrooms thus
eliminating
>the need for a corkscrew! I'm guessing you need some special sort of device
>in no way related to your regular bench capper, would I be right?

Champagne bottles can also be closed with crown seals - not the same size as
a standard beer bottle, which are 26mm but a larger one, 28mm I think. This
means, of course, that you would need a special head for the bench capper or
whatever.


John Lovett <john.lovett at amcor.com.au>
Design and Supercomputing
Amcor Research and Technology
17 Rex Avenue, Alphington Vic 3078 AUSTRALIA
Tel +613 9490 6315 Fax +613 9490 6193
Mobile 0407 875 056



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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 15:25:02 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: Munich Malt in an Alt


I followed Al Korzonas' guidlelines
for alt that was in HBD #2822 (worth reading
if you are into Alt)
with the exception that I used
WYeast 1007 German Ale rather than the 1338
that Al recommends and used Northern
Brewer and Hersbrucker rather than Spalt.
I got 80% attenuation but I mashed at a
low temperature - 63 degrees.
All I can say is that following Al's
advice I got nearly spot on. I was at Uerige
on the 6th of August. I had my first swig
and I said to myself "Damn, I've got a keg
of this at home!" Mine seemed a little hoppier
than Uerige but then Promash suggested to me
that I had approx. 5 EBU's more than Uerige's
48 EBU's - which seems about right.
I went to Zum Schlussel as well - very nice
Alt too. Slightly lighter but extremely nice.
So, using 98% Munich and 2% Chocolate in a
single infusion mash works!
In Wheeler and Protz's book Brew Classic
European Beers at Home, they suggest
65% light Munich, 25% Vienna and 10% Crystal
to duplicate Uerige. They also suggest using
Saaz which would give it a nice herbal quality
but I think Northern Brewer or Spalt would
give it more authentic minty earthy tones.

Brad McMahon
Aldgate, South Australia


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Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:14:59 -0700
From: "Kevin Imel" <kimel at moscow.com>
Subject: Wyeast Shampoo Tubes - A datapoint/observation

Greetings!

Thought I would pass along an observation about the "new" Wyeast 
Shampoo Tube style packaging.  Keep in mind that the n=1 here 
and thus this is not a significant sample size.

A few weeks back I picked up a tube of American Wheat #1010 
from my "local" HB shop 80 miles away.  They didn't have this 
strain in a smack pack and I had neglected to take along my small 
insulated cooler which I generally use to get the yeasties home; 
so, instead I bought a couple bottles of imported brews (this 
particular shop has a fine selection of these) and packed the 
shampoo tube with them in the same paper bag (blue cap down as 
it turns out) and set off for home.

When I got home and opened the back of the truck I immediately 
smelled yeast.  The shampoo tube, while still fairly cool, had 
apparently warmed enough to swell and had leaked a small amount 
of liquid (I estimated less than 10mL).  I was able to turn the blue 
top about 1/8 turn to tighten at that time.  As I couldn't brew that 
week I put the tube in the fridge and hoped for the best.

Well, the weather finally cooled off this last week and we had some 
rain to knock down all the grain harvest dust/spores/etc. so I 
determined it was time to brew.  My father was also visiting and 
while he has done quality control on my brews several times over 
the years he had never been witness to the creation of them.  
Being an organic chemist before he retired he was pretty interested 
in the process.

Knowing that my yeast might be a bit weak and the population 
somewhat diminished; I made a starter just as if I was going to 
pitch a smack pack.  I removed the "sanitary seal" and the cap, 
pitched the yeast and waited.  And waited.  And waited.  After 72+ 
hours there was finally activity but it wasn't the kind of activity we 
as brewers generally want...well, maybe the lambic folks.  Very 
foul smelling and no, I didn't taste it.

Since I am without a proper laboratory (oh how I miss my bio 
research days with microscopes, stains, and other fun tools a-
plenty) I couldn't say for sure what sort of contamination I was 
dealing with but it wasn't all yeast, at least not the 1010 strain I 
was expecting.

Lessons learned:
1) Either take the cooler or buy smack packs; preferably both (I 
have warmed smack packs on the return trip far worse than what 
this tube saw and not had a problem with them weeks and even 
months later).

2) Check the cap on shampoo tubes for tightness before I leave the 
store if I ever go the shampoo tube route again and reject any that 
will tighten significantly.

3) Transport these tubes cap up.  That way at least there won't be 
media/yeast leaking out and creating a nice highway for the bad 
nasties to invade on.

4) Next time Dad visits have some back-up yeast on hand so I can 
be more sure of having a successful brew day and possibly 
converting another to our ranks.

Now, all this being said:  

I am not flaming Wyeast!  I have been using Wyeast products for at 
least 7 years and I don't intend to stop.  Nor am I fishing for a 
refund/replacement from Wyeast or the HB shop.  Stuff happens, 
life goes on.  One bad experience out of the 70+ packages of 
Wyeast I have used is a pretty good batting average.  I am NOT 
complaining!

I do not think this was a problem with Wyeast's new packaging per 
se but those that mail order *may* want to stick with smack packs 
as they just *may* be more stable when subjected to thermal 
stresses.  Perhaps the separated yeast from the media make them 
more stable?

YMMV, of course.

Cheers!

Kevin
___________________________________
Kevin Imel 
KF7CN - DN16lv
Palouse Washington USA

"The Only Way To Truly Fail Is To Fail To Try!"

I-D-A-H-O, Idaho Idaho Go Go Go!!!!! GO VANDALS!!!!!


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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 06:30:40 GMT
From: "Leland Predon" <happy_godzilla at hotmail.com>
Subject: re: Corking beer

I've corked a batch of beer in Champagne bottles with plastic Champange
corks and wires. Worked great, if you don't mind the plastic corks. The 
corks can even be reused (although "'m not sure how many times...)

Hope that helps....

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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 17:42:40 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: ESB Has Immersion Chillers

Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:16:27 +1100
From: "John Lovett" <john.lovett at amcor.com.au>
Subject: Imersion Wort Chillers

Does anyone know where I can purchase an Imersion chiller in Oz, or do I
have to make one or mail order it from US of A?

John Lovett

John Lovett <john.lovett at amcor.com.au>
Design and Supercomputing
Amcor Research and Technology
17 Rex Avenue, Alphington Vic 3078 AUSTRALIA
Tel +613 9490 6315 Fax +613 9490 6193
Mobile 0407 875 056

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

John I originally had no idea how to make a chiller, I don't think there's 
anywhere in Melbourne that you can buy them off-hand.
So I bought mine from ESB in Sydney!
All fittings included. Ordered it and received it 4 days later...
>From memory I think I spoke to Regan Pallandi
Not sure 100% of the price - Excellent website is as follows:

http://www.esb.net.au/

Everything you need to know is pretty much on there, prices etc.
No affiliation etc. etc.

Still works like magic Regan! Thanks!
Regards - Warren L. White
Melbourne, Australia
(Satisfied ESB Customer)

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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 06:35:04 -0400
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Potatoe Pils

For the fellow who asked about Potatoe beer: I asked the same 
question about a year ago and was pleasantly surprised to get 
as note from a fellow in California (I have the name and email 
somewhere) who had won a contest in 97 (I believe) with a 
"spudweiser"/ potatoe pilsner.  I tried it ant it was great!
Search the archives..

 ..Darrell

- --------------------------
Darrell G. Leavitt, PhD
SUNY/ Empire State College
- --------------------------


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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 21:55:05 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: So What Have I Achieved?

I have been credited (and to which I object) with encouraging an inordinate
number of rowdy and unruly Australian brewers to speak their mind in this
forum.

The rowdiest of them all must surely be Mr Graham Sanders who hails from the
dim and dubious state of Queensland.
That he apparently brews with a meaningful grasp of what is actually
required is indeed a shock to us southern staters!

That his pet fish was found with a human head in it is more in line with
what we would expect.

Not that I want to start a war with our northern brothers. In fact all I
want to do is ask Graham some questions.
Firstly, What is it about the Ayinger yeast I sent you that you find drug
induced?
Secondly, your persistence that anyone coming to visit you must bring a
carton of beer (some sort of sacrificial offering) would imply that you
actually think living in Queensland is some sort of privilege. Can this be
right?

Let us be truthful to all brewers of the world.
Queensland is a hot and humid place where homebrewing (well any respectable
form of it) is all but impossible.
The climate is such that even the fish are driven to unnatural practices
(such as consuming human heads).

If I was to visit Graham I would certainly take with me a carton of beer, or
maybe four. The Queensland beer is undrinkable!!

As Ray Kruse will no doubt testify,  Burradoo is the place for serious
homebrewing, and the Burradoo Hilton is the place to consume it. Though I
must admit, at times the behaviour of the patrons would have you believe you
were in Queensland.

You are welcome anytime Graham, but please don't bring a carton of that
dreadful Queensland beer!!

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 08:26:00 -0700
From: "Walter H. Lewis III" <wlewis at alliedlogistics.com>
Subject: Otter malt and cloudy beer?

Several months ago my local homebrew store had a deal on " Marris Otter"
malt for $29.95 per 50# bag. Such a deal I said to myself and promptly
bought two bags. I use it often for base malt in all sorts of beers with
great results until this time.

When I went to pick up the malt I noticed it just said Otter on the bag,
no Marris.

I ignored this. Then I began brewing with it as usual but found EVERY
batch I made with it never cleared! I am now hearing from others in my
homebrew club that they are noticing this as well.

My question is, has anyone here had similar experiences and does anyone
know anything about plain old Otter malt and what happened to the
Marris?

Walt



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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 08:50:44 -0400 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: 100% munich alt

In response to Warren L. White's question about my mash recipe and yeast
choice, yes, the use of 100% munich is a cop-out to the decoction mash. I am
an infusion wimp thus far anyways.  and if the brew works out fine that will
be okay be me to save some time.

I did use Euro ale weast 1338 to hopefully help with the malty flavors.  I
have used 1007 before in a european ale of no real style but didn't prefer
its drier taste.  maybe next time I'll try the 1007 if I would like this
brew to be 100% munich but attenuate more.

FWIW, gravity after 8 days of primary was between 1.020 and 1.022.  OG was
1.058 and yeast was twice stepped up from a smack pack to maybe 0.25-0.4
gallons. taste was definitely malty but not the sickly sweet taste from a
extract finishing high type of taste.  color was orangeish. another FWIW,
was that my mash temp was a bit high for me since my mash water was 176F
rather than my normal 172-174F.  This resulted in a mash temp of about 156
to 158F.  perhaps another contributer. 

secondary will last until next week and then its a few days cold aging and
then try it on tap.

Thanks for the advice.  

By the way, just racked my smoked porter to secondary using about 1.5-2%
peat smoked malt in the mash.  just a hint of subtle smokiness.  it may be
just perfect or perhaps a just a tiny bit too unnoticeable.  This % amounted
to 0.25lbs in my recipe.  maybe try a bit more next time. but not much for
sure.  couple of weeks and I'll be able to tell for sure.  very nice porter
though that I am happy with at tasting so far.

Pete czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:10:14 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: travelling beer

Brewers

Dr. Pivo has written of his experience with the deterioration of his beers
that have been physically mistreated in travel.  Here is a little counter
experience.

In *May* I brewed 10 gallons of cream/Canadian ale with 15% corn and 15%
rice (cereal mash), 70% 6-row, 119F/148F (main rest)/160F/168F, Ultra FWH
(8 IBU, such as FWH contributes), N. Brewer and Saaz (target 20 IBU),
Repitched 1098 yeast, OG 1.046, FG 1.009.  After it was finished and kegged
and carbonated, I racked it into purged kegs to rid it of all sediment.  It
has been at 40F since the end of fermentation, which seemed to make it
better, as with a Koelsch.

This beer tasted great, and was a real crowd pleaser.  One of the nicest
beers I've made in a long time, very balanced and easy drinking.  I think
that full attenuation was a key.  I would guess that the bitterness was
actually low 20s.

There was still about three gallons left this past weekend when I took it
to Cincinnati (did you all feel the Rennerian shift?) for a get together
with my cousins.  The keg was in ice for the trip, but it sloshed every
time we turned or hit a bump, so it wasn't being gently treated.  I was
concerned due to its age (3-1/2 months) and sloshing after the Doc's
warning, but I tapped it right away and it was still perfect.  And gone in
too short a time once the party started.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 11:34:55 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: HBD Illustrated

Regarding illustrating the HBD, Jim L. writes:

>If we choose to use a service like zing or better yet
>mgisoft.com  What happens in the future if the service goes belly up?
>So let's say i post an image and the server the image is on is 
>hacked or goes away.

While the idea is an appealing one, Jim makes a sad, but true counterpoint.
How many times have you clicked on a hyperlink only to find that wonderful
404 error?  In most cases, this is just due to a link that wasn't updated
when something changed.  Other times it's because someone trashed their
website for one reason or another.  And last but not least, we have the
sometimes fleeting lifespan of a dot-com company which relies on making it's
money by shoving ads in your face while you peruse someone's free website,
photoalbum, etc...  None of it is reliable.  I think we can rely on the HBD
archives though.  Pat or Karl, can the archives be restored following a
(Heaven forbid) catastrophic event?  Just curious.  I love my HBD ;-)

>And some folks don't know how to size images for the web properly. 

Oy!  My wife with her baby pictures... soon there will be no room left for
beer pictures.  She needs her own site!  I could write a book on this pet
peeve - and I've got a DSL line! 

>A standard?  I'm reminded of the attempt to come up with a "standard"
>recipe format for brewing programs.  That effort went the way of the t
>rex.

Coming up with the standard is the easy part.  Getting buy-in and adherence
to it is another!

>Not trying to be contrary, just realistic ...

It's the only way to be.  Good idea -  just plagued with problems...


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:45:38 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Daniels' DGB

Alan Meeker writes:

>
> One book I haven't seen mentioned is Ray Daniel's "Designing
> Great Beers."
> An excellent book IMHO and I highly recommend it.

Without a doubt the first book I will need to replace from being worn out by
repeated use. IMO a must book in every serious brewer's library. Now I'm
waiting for Ray's follow-up book devoted to the beers of Belgium. You are
writing this book, aren't you, Ray?

Ray?

Cheers,
Brian




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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:14:47 -0400 
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: Brewing book recommendation

While we're on the subject of brewing books, I'd like to mention
Dave Miller's "Brewing the World's Great Beers".  Someone recently
asked if there exists a book which steps you through extract into
partial mash into all-grain; this book does exactly that.

When I began brewing, I started with this book.  I received it as
a gift and read through the novice parts before I even owned an
airlock.  Not only did this book get me going from scratch, it 
constantly beckoned me deeper into the book, thus getting me to
move to liquid yeasts, try lager styles and work towards partial
mash brewing.  Eventually, I moved to all-grain.  I think the layout
of the book, with it's promises of expanded recipe possibilies and
control in the deeper chapters, kept me striving to grow as a
brewer.  Another nice feature are the process summaries at the

I'd strongly recommend this book to novice and intermediate
brewers.

cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, Canada 


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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 13:55:36 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Perils of Traveling Beer

I think the good Doc is onto something about the deleterious effects of
beer transport.  I have pondered this wonderment myself.  I have kegged
beer for transport to various functions from 30 to 1,000 miles away for
some ten years or more.  I have taken great care to transfer clear beer off
the yeast into my kegs prior to transport.  Everyone wants to drink crystal
clear beer because it's pretty.  

I used to belong to one of the "beer of the month" clubs but quit after
getting fed up with the same prevalent cardboardy/stale taste beer after
beer.  It seemed they all came from the same brewery because of the same
over-riding "house character".  I'm sure they all were great when they left
the brewery, but something funny happened on the way to my tastebuds.

As well, my beers taste great fresh from the taps in my basement brewery,
but something happens upon transport.  I use CO2 to do all transfers after
primary fermentation and purge all vessels with several blasts of CO2 with
venting from the top to keep the heavier CO2 inside and bleed out O2.  My
latest beer (an oktoberfest) I transferred to serving keg from the
secondary last night.  It was lagered and precarbonated naturally from
residual sugars to about 8 psi and transferred with back presssure
technique (pre-pressuriized/CO2 purged receiving keg with a slight pressure
differential to allow flow).  Seems to me any O2 pick up should be
eliminated because of 1) purging, 2) CO2 transfer, 3) CO2 evolved during
transfer of precarbonated beer should drive out O2, and 4) receiving keg
remains pressurized after transfer.  After transfer, I force carbonate cold
in my serving fridge.  We'll see what happens when I take this beer to our
club Oktoberfest Sept. 23rd.

I reason some of what the good Doc expouses based on bottle-conditioned
beers.  Would a Chimay Grand Reserve or a Thomas Hardy be the beers they
are if they were filtered before being shipped across [insert name of large
body of water here]?

Also, even Bud tastes tolerable consumed after the brewery tour.  Well,
nearly tolerable.

If this doesn't work, I'm going to try some of the Doc's "yeast injection"
techniques.  To heck with the way it looks.  It's better to taste good than
to look good, dahlings.


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing and Home Remodeling
Murrayville, GA



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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:41:47 -0500
From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com>
Subject: Anybody need some StarSan? / FWH

Hello e-neighbors -

After a little cleaner/sanitizer binge (well, I probably only need 32 ounces,
but look at how cheap 4 gallons is per ounce!), I find myself with 4 gallons
of StarSan and a 50 lb pail of PBW. I would love to sell a large portion of
it to some local homebrewers (at cost, of course), so if anyone in the
Minneapolis/Saint Paul area would be interested in splitting some of this
stuff with me please let me know.

________________________

Graham shouts the following:

>What I have been able to get from my experiments, other people arround this
>land and OS (thats overseas heathens) is
>1. use bittering hops as you would always use.
>2. the 10 minute flavour addition is only to be FWH
>3. Even cut it back by 10 to 20 %, the flavour can be that intense.
>4. Use hops of very low aa.  It was suggested 2 and below by some, but
>consenses puts it 5 and below.

Regarding #3, are you cutting back 10 to 20% the amount of hops that
you would have added 10 minutes before knockout, or do you calculate
 your IBU's based on a full-length boil, and then cut it back 10 - 20%?
Seems like you would be gaining a lot more bitterness if you added the
same amount of flavor hops as FWH. Do you scale back the amount
of flavor hops so that the calculated IBU's are what you desired from
the 10 minute hop addition?

tia,

Dan in Minnetonka
daniel_c_stedman at uhc.com




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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 10:39:59 -0400
From: Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Spinning Disk Mills

I assume the mill described as having a spinning disk is the Corona, a
burr mill type of grain mill.
I realize most of the homebrew world is delighted by their various
roller mills and I don't argure against their virtues.

For those for price, availability or convenience reasons want to utilize
the Corona, be assured that very satisfactory homebrew can be brewed
using malt milled on the Corona.  I would recommend tempering the malt
with 2 TBs water per pound of malt sprinkled over the malt, stirred and
allowed to rest 30' or so before milling.
I see no need to upgrade from my Corona.

Besides, I buy large pellet, cheap catfish fishfood and use my Corona
mill to reduce the pellets to the size needed for the goldfish and Koi
in my water garden.

cheers,  jim booth





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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 17:43:13 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com>
Subject: re: more than text

Jim Liddil is correct; adding some kind of picture standard to the HBD will
cause more problems than it solves, not to mention requiring more of our
Janitor's time.  Jim's point about pictures offsite being impossible to
archive is well-taken; however, sometimes it would be nice to view a
picture or graphic in conjunction with a textual explanation.  I don't see
any problem with a poster uploading a picture to his own webspace or one of
the free picture hosting services and providing a link to it, as long as it
is understood that the picture is most likely going to be ephemeral and
will not be archived with the post; in other words, the status quo.  I
suggest the following guidelines for such pictures:

Keep the size under 100K and preferably under 50K.  For those of us on a
28K dialup connection, this will keep the download time reasonably fast.  

Use only JPEG ( jpg, jpe, jpeg) or GIF pictures; other formats may not be
supported by everyone's browser or other software, or may make the files
too large.

Keep the picture size at 800x600 or under.  This will fit on most folks
screens nicely.  If your pic or graphic will work at a smaller size, use
that size.

Crop the picture to show only relevant information; we don't need to see
your backyard or kitchen.  I sell on Ebay and I look at a lot of other
people's auctions; if you want see how not to take pictures( or how not to
write HTML, for that matter ), spend a few hours looking at auctions at
random.

Keep the picture relevant to brewing and common sense; I don't want to
download a huge picture of a dog any more than Jim Liddel does.  Nice dog,
though.

If you don't know how to do any of the above, learn or ask for help from
someone who does.  Paintshop Pro is a great easy to use graphics program
that is reasonably priced; I highly recommend it.

Cheers, Jim

Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/


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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:04:41 +1100
From: "John Lovett" <john.lovett at amcor.com.au>
Subject: re :Wort Chillers

Thanks to all of you who helped me with this; seems I can get one at ESB,
Sydney for about $A55, but the main consensus was that its easy to make one
yourself, so I'll have a go at that.

John Lovett <john.lovett at amcor.com.au>
Design and Supercomputing
Amcor Research and Technology
17 Rex Avenue, Alphington Vic 3078 AUSTRALIA
Tel +613 9490 6315 Fax +613 9490 6193
Mobile 0407 875 056



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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <Rama.Roberts at eng.sun.com>
Subject: how long before giving up on yeast?

I started my first batch of beer 3 days ago, an English Pale Ale, using
extract and a Wyeast XL 175 pack that had the internal food packet popped
in transit. I was counting on the fact that I refridgerated the pack as
soon as I received it, and pitched it just a few days later to help offset
the pre-ruptured yeast bag.  Well, it's been roughly 72 hours at the time
of this writing, and I don't have any visible signs of yeast activity in
the wort. 
Random other tidbits: the Wyeast was dated Aug02, and was swollen to just
under 1 inch when I received it. I made sure the internal bag was
completely squeezed out 24 hours before pitching, in case it just has a
pinhole- but that didn't make any difference in the height of the
envelope, so I believe it was completely ruptured initially. The wort's
hydrometer and pH readings are exactly as they should be for an English
Pale Ale. 

It's sitting at a fairly stable 70 degrees F and I did my best to use
sterile technique, but by the time I get my replacement yeast from St
Pats, the wort would have sat around for about 7 days. (assuming the yeast
in the wort now never kicks in). 

My question is: how long can I safely wait for the yeast to kick in before
I either a) toss this batch of wort, or b) pitch a new yeast pack?

I don't want to toss it if at all possible, especially since this is my
first go at brewing- but I don't want to go through the trouble of
bottling a beer thats going to be loaded with off flavors from infection.

what to do?,
Rama



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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 18:02:15 -0500
From: Matthew Arnold <revmra at iname.com>
Subject: Re: Munich Malt in Alt

>Quite frankly, I don't understand how anyone can  make a good alt (including
>Al Korzonas), with their characteristic high attenuation levels, using the
>high levels of Munich malt I have often seen for this style.  I have simply
>quit trying. Suggestions are welcome!
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>According to Roger Protz in one of his books a leading Alt brewer like 
>Diebels uses 99% Pilsner Malt and 1% Roast Malt so you'd have to question 
>the 100% Munich thing, this would have to be a bit of a cop-out to avoid 
>decoction mashing I'd assume.

Diebels may call its product an "Alt" but I'm certain that no one would ever
mistake it for Zum Uerige. It's not even in the same galaxy.

>I'd always assumed that Munich Malt has very low enzyme levels probably most 
>likely making it a dubious proposition as 100% of your grist anyway.

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it! I've brewed nearly 100% dark munich malt
Alts, Dunkels, and even a Doppelbock with no conversion problems at all (with
but a single-step infusion mash). I say "nearly" because I almost always use at
least 1/2 pound of Melanoidin malt in there too (which certainly isn't going to
be providing tons of enzymes).

>My line of thinking would be to use say 70% Pils Malt and then maybe 30% of 
>a darker Munich Malt and a small bit of Caramel or an even way smaller 
>additon of a Roasted Malt.
>
>Better to err on the side of higher attenuation and a drier finish IMHO!
>
>By the way Fred did Pete Czerpak use the Wyeast 1338 European Ale? Because 
>this stuff is very unattenuative (67-71%)conversely the 1007 goes far drier 
>(73-77%).

Personally, I always use 1338 because it imparts a nice flavor to the beer that
I don't get with cleaner yeasts like 1007. And no, the flavor isn't "wortiness"
from underattenuation. A quick review of my notes from the times I've brewed a
slight variation of AlK's recipe reveals that my O.G. is 1.048-1.049 and my
F.G. is 1.012-1.014.

I REALLY suggest that everyone try brewing an AlK alt. It is a spectacular
recipe. I've brewed it five times myself--and it's about time for a sixth, I
might add.

Matt
- -----
Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club
http://www.rackers.org        info at rackers.org


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Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:05:01 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrewing for Dummies

"Some Guy" a.k.a. Pat our auspicious HBD Janitor wrote:

How 'bout "Homebrewing For Dummies" by Marty Nachel? Don't let the "For
Dummies" tag scare you off - it's one of the best books on the subject out
there, and has everything you need to go from "Joe Budweiser" to "Boris
Vorlauf" in a open, friendly, easily understood manner.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Saw this little gem myself and thought; How dare they realease my 
"Unauthorised Biography". Yours truly and my fellow "Dummies" find this 
insulting and I shall instigate Litigation Proceedings Mr. Nachel, Shame on 
you!

Anyway and enough of me playing the farceur... I came across this book a few 
years ago at my local Collins Booksellers, browsed though it and found it 
quite impressive, covers the craft in pretty gradual stages, at the time I 
thought hmm... I'd like this book but proceeded to get  the budget not 
permitting, got the phone (and internet) bills to pay spiel from the SO. 
Then I thought to myself, I shall return at a future date and purchase you 
my friend, but of course the years rolled by and this never actually 
eventuated.

Thanks Pat for jogging my badly oxidized memory on that one, it appeared a 
pretty good read as an all-round book.

The farceur returns: "Boris Vorlauf" says you... What about "Rocky J. 
Sparge" and "Bullwinkle the Mooshead Lager?" ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Warren L. White - Melbourne Australia
Must get Moose und Squeeril
Natasha, Shuddup you Mouth
(Oh Crap! I'm in trouble with the Eastern-Bloc Nations now!)
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.



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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 22:56:04 -0500
From: eric and SUSAN <erica at isunet.net>
Subject: Re: New Glarus beer in Madison?



Jeff:

You can't swing a dead cat in Madison without hitting a bar or bottle
shop that carries New Glarus, especially "Spotted Cow."  While in
Madison,  check out the Capital Brewery in Middleton (West Madison),
Angelic Brewing and The Great Dane.  Capital has an outstanding "Dark",
Angelic, a Tripel, and Great Dane has like 18 beers, all good.  I about
fell out of my chair at the Great Dane after sampling them all.  Check
out the brew pub in Mount Horub too.  They have an outstanding American
Pale Ale that they entered in the Denver contest.  Check out the Mustard
Museum while in Mount Horub also.

Eric
Ames, IA


Greetings fellow brewers,

I will be traveling on business to Madison, Wisconsin this upcoming
weekend.
Does anyone out there know if and where I can buy New Glarus beer in
Madison? If you wish, respond to me directly to jpursley at tulsa.e2m.net.
Thanks in advance. The next problem is how to get it home....

Jeff Pursley
Bixby, Oklahoma



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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:35:32 -0400
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Aaagggghhhhh!!!!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your resuscitator...

Ron La Borde quips:

> Hey, Pat.... in your spare time how'd ya like to
> monitor graphics and filter them?

Yee-gads! Yikes!




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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 14:08:36 -0400
From: "FatCat" <fatcat at homebrew.com>
Subject: Brussels Rambling & 't Spinnekopje

Well, just back from the Holy City.  Five days of staggering around under
the watchful care of my Duval loving wife, left me with a strong desire to
retire there.  First, thanks to all who sent me e-mail about the good
spots.  It made a huge difference in best use of my time.  It is, frankly
hard to go to a bad place. All have a selection of great beer, even the
little hole-in-the-wall places can dig up a fresh Chimay.  The 'classic
places' like Falstaff (yes it is still very much there, but one 'end' has
no patio, you need to go arond the block to the other side) and Le Cirio.  
We preferred Le Cirio by a long shot.  The waiters at Falstaff were not
helpful and the beer menu was much shorter.  A typical beer hunters beer
was about 100 BF or $2 US.  The waiters (ultimately one, 'our' waiter) at
Cirio was a beer lover and put us on to several things not on the menu.  
Did not eat the food at either place.  Why, you may ask?  Simply, because
of a place called t'Spinnekopje. The best restaurant we visited on this
trip.  A wide selection of lambic and geuze and derivatives.  Cantillion
served with rabbit in a sauce of geuze...huuummm. This followed a first
course of a selection of home made saugages and raw vegetables. The pork
cutlet was outta this world. French technique with German quantities.  
Like seafood?  The Medusa behind St. Catherines Church offered a menu fixe
for 1180 BF which included a framboise appertife (Sorry about the
spelling, I am enjoying the only bottle of Brian Cole's unbelieveable Old
Ale I have), mussels, an entree (we had cod one night and lobster the
next) and creme brulee and a liter of excellent wine.

The food is inexpensive.  We did not pay more than $50 for any meal for
two, ate like royalty, and the price included beers and/or wine.

Go if you can.

__________________________________________________
Do You Homebrew?!
Get your free  at homebrew.com email account!
http://mail.homebrew.com/




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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:54:41 EDT
From: MaxxBaker at cs.com
Subject: Re:electric stove, new gas burner

Matthew Comstock wrote about the travail of brewing on an electric stove.  I 
too have suffered this agony.  No more!
The outdoor propane cooker is a gift from the gods.  Everything boils 
quicker, there's much more room to work, and SWMBO doesn't complain about 
"that awful smell" coming from the brewpot.
Re. bugs:  they usually don't fall into the brewpot, and those that do simply 
become additional hot break material.
Enjoy the gas.

Brian Knickrehm


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