HOMEBREW Digest #3426 Sat 09 September 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
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				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Uk Homebrew List (Tony Barnsley)
  Decoction for an Alt? (Alan McKay)
  more than text (Alan McKay)
  Visiting Madison (E.J.)" <eahrendt at visteon.com>
  Re: Otter malt and cloudy beer? (Jeff Renner)
  Mylar Bags ("Peter J. Calinski")
  An apology of sorts ("Warren White")
  U Fleku ("FatCat")
  Otter Malt, (Dave Burley)
  Re: Otter malt and cloudy beer? (Joel Plutchak)
  Multi-tier systems / graphics on HBD (David Harsh)
   (Weaver Joseph  39MDG/SGOAM)
   (Weaver Joseph  39MDG/SGOAM)
  Big Beer Toys ("Bill Coleman")
  RE: Champagne caps, Marris goes missing, PBW offer, and Diebels Alt ("Brian Lundeen")
  transport damage 'spurments. ("Dr. Pivo")
  RIMS wiring ("Sweeney, David")
  American Brewer gone too? (Jeff McNally)
  Re: How long before giving up on yeast? (Doug Hurst)
  Re: Munich Malt in Alt ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: Gravity contribution of starch ("Stephen Alexander")
  Alts/Munich/1338 ("Thomasson, John W")
  5th Annual Music City Brew-Off (Stephen Johnson)
  Comments on current issues (Althelion)
  Re: Gravity contribution of starch (Teutonic Brewer)
  Leechees and Longans (Rod Prather)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 11:16:30 +0100 From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> Subject: Uk Homebrew List Hello all, Sorry for using up bandwidth with this trivial almost brewing related post. To those of you that subscribe to the Uk Homebrew list (Digest version, Or even the Ingest Version for that matter!). You may be wondering why it has been so quiet for the last couple of days. Well quite simply for some reason ALL SUBUSCRIBERS were unsubscribed. (must be something to do with that mind blowing Ayinger yeast :> ) AGAIN! If you didn't receive my personal mail yesterday then if you want to discuss the uk homebrew scene (No discussion of HSA, RIMS, THT, ABC, BBC, etc allowed ;> ) you will need to resubscribe Send a mail to list at ale.co.uk with join uk-homebrew in the message body. To change to the digest version (one daily post) once joined send a mail to list at ale.co.uk with digest uk-homebrew in the message body. I think (QDA) that you can include them in one post together to subscribe directly to the digest i.e. join uk-homebrew digest uk-homebrew IN THE MESSAGE BODY. Please, Please, Please do not delete the welcome mail as it tells you how to unsubscribe. (Its quite simple really) Please everyone send Text only messages to the list and turn off any HTML options :> To unsubscribe email list at ale.co.uk with leave uk-homebrew in the message body. Or just wait a month or so and everyone will be deleted again :< God I wish it was as reliable as the HBD! - -- Wassail! The Scurrilous Aleman Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK Reply To Aleman At brewmaster Dot demon Dot co Dot uk ICQ 46254361 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 08:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com> Subject: Decoction for an Alt? Hey folks, I've only been about halfways following the Alt thread, but just wanted to ask if anyone has actually confirmed that a decoction is actually still used in Duesseldorf these days. I know that all the Koelsch brewers I've talked to so far have long-since switched to infusion mashing. cheers, -Alan - -- "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 08:16:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com> Subject: more than text Folks, Since I've been one of the guys bugging the janitors about the limitations of text-only, I figure I should also pony-up with a solution for those who want it. Though I currently do not have the facility to accomodate this on my homepage below (because it is only a virtual server), I am currently in the process of moving to my own co-located server which I will then be free to administer as I see fit. I propose that I set up an account "HBD" on the new server, and publish the password to this forum. Or better yet, I think anyone who wants the password should email me for it. That way the PW will not be posted in a public forum somewhere. "www.bodensatz.com" isn't going anywhere soon, so it should provide a fairly permanent home for any required images. I can also post a page with instructions on how to put images up there, and how to link to them. My co-located server is currently a month or two away, so you will all have to be patient if you want to go with this idea. Comments? cheers, -Alan - -- "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 08:58:26 -0400 From: "Ahrendt, Eric (E.J.)" <eahrendt at visteon.com> Subject: Visiting Madison Jeff, If you do make the trip to Capital (highly recommended) make sure to try Kirby's 1900. One of the few commercial examples of CAP around. Depending on when you go you might catch one of their garden parties. Also, New Glarus is only about 30 minutes outside of Madison (Not sure of the Rennerian Coordinates.) I think their tour schedule is kind of limited so phone ahead. Spotted Cow has nearly achieved god like status in those parts. Eric Ahrendt Manufacturing Engineer Visteon Automotive Systems Sandusky Plant Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:03:18 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Otter malt and cloudy beer? "Walter H. Lewis III" <wlewis at alliedlogistics.com> asks: > >When I went to pick up the malt I noticed it just said Otter on the bag, >no Marris. Maris is the breeder. They have developed many breeds of grains, and name their barleys after small British mammals. There is, for example, also Maris Badger. See http://www.breworld.com/malt/maris.html for really good information. There is also Michael Jackson's EXCELLENT article in Malt Advocate at http://realbeer.com/maltadvocate/u95/U95JCKSN.html, although this discusses MO wrt whisky more than beer. The other consideration is the maltster. Crisp is one well known malting house in UK that produces MO malt. http://brewingtechniques.com/bmg/crisp.html >Then I began brewing with it as usual but found EVERY >batch I made with it never cleared! I am now hearing from others in my >homebrew club that they are noticing this as well. Sorry, I can't help you directly with this. There were reports on HBD some years ago (5+?) about some importer shoving off some substandard MO malt on American homebrewers. I'd suggest that you contact your shop and have them get the specs on the lot you have. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:16:25 -0400 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: Mylar Bags American Science and Surplus has "metalized mylar bag"s. Measure 8-3/4" x 2-1/2" priced at $2.00 for a pack of 25. Catalog number 27888, Mylar bag. Web site http://www.sciplus.com. Phone 847-982-0870. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:27:56 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: An apology of sorts Sorry folks this is probably non-beer related. I'd just like to apologise to Messrs. Graham Sanders and Phil Yates. I mistakingly referred to Graham as the householder of The Burradoo Hilton, I'll put it down to my semi-newbie-ism because of my geographic ignorance I thought that Burradoo was in Queensland, a mistake I shouldn't have made and I do regret, because of the definite lack of vowels in the name "Burradoo". Queensland cities/suburbs tends to have five to ten more vowels on average in their names. I'm just an ignorant Melburnian Southerner who has the ability to type at an average of 80 words per minute and think at the rate of about one word per minute as you could all well guess, this creates pretty poor mental balance as I now realise that Burradoo is in the Southern Highlands of New South Wales. Once again Graham, I am on my knees begging your forgiveness... Because you are my newfound Bagwan, Guru or whatever it be in the appreciation of "Belgian Beauties" I did always realise that you are a Queenslander (honest) due to your sensory profile and acute understanding of Banana Esters in the afore-mentioned "Belgian Beauties". As for you Mr. Phil Yates, we've not spoken yet, but I expect a very severe tongue-lashing and a rare taste of your Cat 'O' Nine Tails, go easy on me as I now realise that you are master of the house, that house being The Burradoo Hilton! You can all blame it on me noggin being befuddled with me "East Indian Pukka Porter" this runs at about 8% Alc. (Awwh Crap! Here comes the Temperance Movement) and it has an incredible blackcurrant complexity, due to a very meticulous dry-hopping regimen (secret). I have the "Appelation Controlee" of this mighty fine beverage and I recommend no operating of heavy machinery after its consumption! What a mistake to make... What next - I'll be thinkin that the right honourable Dr. Pivo comes from a far-away land such as Uzbekistan! I can just see it now. Dr. Pivo krauzens his keg with none other than Human Growth Hormone (HGH) (sorry Doc. jez jokin). Sure would would beat Carapils for putting body in your beer though I'd say. Two pints and your skull plates would separate, your teeth would develop gaps and you would develop Gigantism! Sorry about the bandwidth folks... I will try to tone it down. Warren L. White, Melbourne, Australia (Type fast and prosper) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:33:47 -0400 From: "FatCat" <fatcat at homebrew.com> Subject: U Fleku Anyone with a clue how to brew this beer? E-mail fine. Thanks __________________________________________________ Do You Homebrew?! Get your free at homebrew.com email account! http://mail.homebrew.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:38:34 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Otter Malt, Brewsters: Walt used Marris-Otter malt satisfactorily. He recenty purchased bag labelled Otter which failed to give clear beers. Walt, maybe you Otter try something else, like a protein rest. Marris-Otter is a name of a barley and as far as I know, no Otter barley exists.. Perhaps the bag labelling is a sign that this malt is off-spec. I would complain to the HB store and see what the owner does. You could also try using this in combination with a high enzyme malt like a US two row, in case the malt has been damaged in storage or is excessively old or whatever. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 08:41:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Otter malt and cloudy beer? Among the draff in HBD #3425, Walter H. Lewis III Spake thusly: >My question is, has anyone here had similar experiences and does anyone >know anything about plain old Otter malt and what happened to the >Marris? Maris Otter is a grain variety; who was the maltster for your "Otter" grain? I bought a bag of Beeston's Maris Otter last year, and encountered the cloudy beer syndrome with all three batches I've used it for so far[*]. Other malts (Chariot, Halcyon, Pipkin) from Beeston made for great clear beer. I heard a rumor from a CAMRA bloke in England that some breweries there stopped using Maris Otter somewhat recently due to quality problems. Don't know if that's true, but certainly makes some sense in the context of cheap MO on the homebrew market and cloudy beer in our bottles and cornies. [*] Single temperature infusion mashed, ~155F (68C). - -- Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu> Brewing cloudy Real Ale in East-central Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:56:57 -0400 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: Multi-tier systems / graphics on HBD mark king <car_diagnostics at yahoo.com> asks about 3-tier systems: >..I was wondering if someone could give me some > advice on this type of setup or a similar (looking) > one in the same price range ($2300 +/-). Lots of choices here - I've looked at many of them and the end cost seems very similar by the time the same number of bells and whistles are included. I'm going to give you my list from memory (note to collective: if I forget anything, please add it on) 1. St. Pat's system: standard welded 3-tier rack, available in stainless for the alloy perverts out there. Available as both rack only or as turn-key system. 2. Penquat brewtree by Modesto Homebrew supply: Straight all gravity system with a winch attachment for raising your mashtun. Pretty well designed and easy to put on wheels if you want to move it around. Possibly too tall for some basements, uses propane, warning you will die if you use it indoors, etc. Tough to find ads for the system, they used to advertise in Zymurgy alot. 3. pbsbeer.com: High quality systems with lots of bells and whistles available; actually only on 2 tiers so a pump is required. 4. morebeer.com: Many different sized systems. Seem very well constructed and the largest size is reported to be able to make about anything you would want. Stands for small units have interesting design; some pumping is required. 5. pico-brewing.com: A single level keg based system; needs pumps to move liquids. Based on my research, I lean towards either the Penquat or morebeer.com systems, but in the end you probably have to make that call based on your own needs and brewing space. Obviously, I like the smaller footprint systems. No affiliation with any of the above. - ----------------- > > Hey, Pat.... in your spare time how'd ya like to > > monitor graphics and filter them? > > Yee-gads! Yikes! That's too bad. I've got a picture of Dan Listermann resplendent in an "I Love My MaltMill" t-shirt at Beer and Sweat this year. Dave Harsh Bloatarian Brewing League Cincinnati, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:51:26 +0200 From: Weaver Joseph 39MDG/SGOAM <Joseph.Weaver at incirlik.af.mil> Subject: I am really dissapointed that no one responded to my post last week, so I am going to post it again. I've moved to Turkey for 2 years and my brewing equipment is due in any day now. I managed to mail over my left over ingredients and have on hand the following items. What would you brew if you had only enough base malt for one batch, along with the assortment of odds and ends bellow? 8 to 10 # of 2 row Wisconsin Pale Ale Malted Barley 1/2 # 60 L Caramel Malt 1/2 # 80 L Caramel Malt 1 # chocolate Malt 1/4 # roast barley 1/2 # biscuit malt 1/2 # torrefied wheat 1/2 # malted wheat 1/2 # Munich malt 1 # Carapils 1 oz Kent Golding Hop Plugs 1 oz Willamette leaf hops 1 1/2 oz Cascade plugs 1 oz Fuggles plugs 2 packs of Munton's dry yeast The water here is very hard and comes from a deep artesian well. When I run it through my faucet mounted Pure water purifier I notice a big difference in taste. Think it will be OK for brewing. Todd Weaver Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:53:14 +0200 From: Weaver Joseph 39MDG/SGOAM <Joseph.Weaver at incirlik.af.mil> Subject: Also, only one person responded to my wine question. Am I not worthy? Grapes here in Turkey are in season and are selling for 250,000 Turkish Lira per Kilogram. That's about 0.40 U.S. cents for 2.2 pounds. Needless to say, I have attempted a couple of batches of wine from memory. I only made one batch while back in the U.S. Can't really say that I know what I am doing. Would someone give me a basic recipe for guidance until my library arrives? I have access to 5 and 8 liter glass jars with tight fitting plastic lids that will hold a fermentation lock nicely. Also found 30 liter large plastic carboys in a local market. Made my one and only batch here in Turkey from yellow cherries while they were in season and it seems to taste OK. I used 3 Kilos of cherries for a 4 Liter batch, the OG measured about 1034 after the 24 hr soak with Campden Tablets, so I added 2 cups of sugar to bring the gravity up to 1082. Also added about a teaspoon of acid blend, about a teaspoon of yeast nutrients, and a package of yeast (can't remember which kind). I attempted 3 more batches last week. One red, one white, and one melon. I used about 5 or 6 kilos for the white and the OG from the grape juice read about 1084. Added a little water to bring it up to volume which dropped the OG to 1062 so I adjusted with sugar. Then added nutrients act. Did roughly the same with the red. The mellon OG was around 1034. How many Kilos of grapes do I need per gallon of finished wine? How many Kilos of fruit in general per volume of wine? (Figs are supposed to be excellent!) When I remove the must, I assume that enough water gets added back to bring it up to the original volume? I have on hand acid blend, tannin, pectinase, yeast nutrients, and yeast. Also, have seen rose petals in recipes. Can get plenty here. Fresh or dry? How much? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:04:36 -0400 From: "Bill Coleman" <maltydog at mindspring.com> Subject: Big Beer Toys Has anyone out there purchased and use the 15.5 gallon Sabco Fermenter Converted from a keg? The ones advertised at: http://www.kegs.com/fermenters.html They look pretty interesting. At $319.95, they're not exaclty cheap, but I guess they could be a lot more expensive as well. I was wondering about anyone's experience with them. Are they easy to clean? Can you remove the yeast from the bottom easily? (Thereby using the same fermenter for primary and secondary fermentation.) Any experiences homebrewers have had with these fermenters would be interesting to me. Bill Coleman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 11:10:03 -0500 From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: Champagne caps, Marris goes missing, PBW offer, and Diebels Alt John Lovett writes of Champagne bottles: > Champagne bottles can also be closed with crown seals - not > the same size as > a standard beer bottle, which are 26mm but a larger one, 28mm > I think. This > means, of course, that you would need a special head for the > bench capper or > whatever. Sparkling wine bottles come in two cap sizes. Most of the European bottles are the larger size and will not work with standard beer capping hardware. However, some producers use a bottle that does accept the standard crown caps. I believe American and Spanish "fizzies" fall into that category, but of course, there will be exceptions to every rule. Now, there is a note on Presque Isle's web site that they will soon be stocking equipment and supplies for 29mm bottles. I'm assuming this will include capping equipment. Anyway, if interested email them at prwc at erie.net ************************************* The third Walter Lewis comments: > Several months ago my local homebrew store had a deal on " > Marris Otter" > malt for $29.95 per 50# bag. > When I went to pick up the malt I noticed it just said Otter > on the bag, > no Marris. Walter, it was announced sometime ago that the maltings in question were purchased by Seattle psychiatrist Niles Crane, who immediately had the word Marris stricken from the malt products. No explanation was given for this decision. Note: To those of you in the world that are not privy to American television, this was a joke. It's Friday, and I'm in a silly mood. ************************************** Daniel Stedman tempts the wrath of some government bureaucracy, I'm sure, when he writes: > After a little cleaner/sanitizer binge (well, I probably only > need 32 ounces, > but look at how cheap 4 gallons is per ounce!), I find myself > with 4 gallons > of StarSan and a 50 lb pail of PBW. I would love to sell a > large portion of > it to some local homebrewers (at cost, of course) This reminds me of a posting a while back (it may not have been in here) that I believe came from a Five Star employee. He commented that it is illegal for brew shops to repackage PBW cleaner for sale in smaller quantities. Perhaps some federal regulation about safe handling of chemicals and the need to pay them a fee in order for you to be considered safe. Now, I'm sure the government will take into account that you are a private citizen doing this on a not-for-profit basis, and will consider you exempt from these regulations. (Is there an emoticon for not being able to keep a straight face)? Still, if you get a knock on your door in the middle of the night,... ****************************************** Finally, Matthew Arnold writes: > Diebels may call its product an "Alt" but I'm certain that no > one would ever > mistake it for Zum Uerige. It's not even in the same galaxy. According to what I've read (and there's a little inside joke there), Zum Uerige is a very extreme example of the style, and should not be considered the definitive Alt. Diebels and many others more properly typify the style. Cheers, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 18:57:16 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: transport damage 'spurments. Just thought I might mention that the boot of your car is a dandy way to do some transport damage protection testing. For those who REALLY want to get serious, and do some standardised testing, the equivalent equipment to what the industrious industrials use for dealing with this subject is available at your local paint store. As with most things, if you say it has to do with making beer, they'll probably let you use it. A couple minutes on the "paint blending machine", is equivalent to a lot of road time, and gives you a standardised way to compare, should you want to do different "side by sides", of different "beer condoms" (protectors), at different times. I'm pretty sure this is WAY beyond the interest of most folks, but I just thought I'd pass this tip on, should there be anyone else out there that is stupid enough to try and make their 'spurments as "clean" and "repeatable" as possible, when nobody is even paying you to do it. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:05:29 -0500 From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu> Subject: RIMS wiring I'm in need of some heat resistant wire for my RIMS rack. the wire should be between 12-18 ga and resistant up to perhaps 300F. David Sweeney Texas A&M University david at studentlife.tamu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:14:12 -0400 (EDT) From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff McNally) Subject: American Brewer gone too? Hi All, Does anyone know if American Brewer magazine is still being published? I sent in a check for a subscription back in late May, and it cleared my bank on June 19th, but I still have'nt seen my first issue. I've tried calling several times, but only get an answering machine saying to leave a message. I've left two messages, but no-one has returned my calls. I also notice that the web page (www.americanbrewer.com) is over a year out-of-date. Not a good sign. Hoppy brewing, Jeff ========================================================================== Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 832-1390 Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 832-7250 Naval Undersea Warfare Center email: Systems Development Branch mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Code 8321; Bldg. 1246/2 WWW: Newport, RI 02841-1708 http://www.nuwc.navy.mil/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:19:01 -0500 From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: Re: How long before giving up on yeast? Rama, I would give up on that yeast now and try to get some more as soon as possible. Maybe you could get it FedExed to you. My understanding is that the date on the pack is the date it was manufactured and you should have ~6 months from that date to use it -- if it is handled properly. The fact that it was already punctured is distressing. If it was punctured a long time before you received it, the yeast may have consumed all of the wort and begun to autolyze (self destruct). There's no way to tell how long ago it was punctured or what temperature it had to endure during transit. A delivery truck's interior could easily reach 120 degrees F, or more, which would quickly kill the yeast. As for your waiting wort. Keep it sealed and don't open it until you can pitch in a healthy yeast pack. It should be able to stand the wait. Of course the longer it sits without yeast the more chance of infection but if you sanitized the fermenter well, you should be ok. When you get the new yeast be sure to re-aireate the wort by shaking or sloppy stirring with a sanitized spoon. I had the same problem with a some mail order yeast recently. I think it's due to heat in transit. Fortunately I was able to go to a local home brew shop and get a new pack fresh from the cooler. Hope this helps, Doug Hurst Chicago, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 15:42:33 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Munich Malt in Alt >Fred L. Johnson writes... > >Quite frankly, I don't understand how anyone can make a good alt (including >Al Korzonas), with their characteristic high attenuation levels, using the >high levels of Munich malt And Warren White >According to Roger Protz in one of his books a leading Alt brewer like >Diebels uses 99% Pilsner Malt and 1% Roast Malt so you'd have to question >the 100% Munich thing, this would have to be a bit of a cop-out to avoid >decoction mashing I'd assume. > >I'd always assumed that Munich Malt has very low enzyme levels probably most >likely making it a dubious proposition as 100% of your grist anyway. Munich malts in my experience can completely convert themselves w/o difficulty and even achieve good attenuation given careful mashing - still 10% pale isn't a bad idea. Despite his accent I have to agree otherwise with Warren. Alt style appears to have a wide range of malt bill (based on reading) including the Deibels one he suggests and I would expect a range for color and attenuation. The malt bills match everything from a well attenuated ale to a dunkel. Kunze repeats a Narziss paper plus his own notes in mentioning malt bills of Altbier: 1/ 99% pale, 1% colored 2/ 85% pale, 15% cara-dunkel 3/ 90% Munich, 10% pale 4/ 90% munich, 10% dark caramel 5/ 100 munich 6/ 50% munich, 50% bruhmalt 7/ 70% vienna, 20% munich, 10%wheat malt That's quite a range, and I can't believe that malt bill 2/ with 15% cara-dunkel or 4/ with 10% caramel is highly attenuated. Kunze reports OG of 11.2-12P, and the alcohol range of 4.6-5.2%ABV and color range of 30-38EBC and bitterness 28-40IBUs. I calculate the midpoint of OG and alc would represent almost 80% apparent attenuation - very high indeed and not IMO achievable w/ maltbill 4/. Even the high OG and low Alc figure gives 73% apparent attenuation. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 15:58:20 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: Gravity contribution of starch Doug Moyer writes ... >>"...but I doubt it was unconverted starch since I'm getting proper >>extraction..." > >Wouldn't unconverted starch (oxymoron?) contribute to the gravity? Yes, it absolutely does. Altho' only part of the starch complement is truly soluble the rest will appear in suspension, contributing to SG, and not much of the free starch will remain behind in the lauter. My recollection is that amylopectins are solube, but amylose is not - tho' I may have that bass-ackwards. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 15:30:36 -0500 From: "Thomasson, John W" <john.w.thomasson at lmco.com> Subject: Alts/Munich/1338 Howdy all, In HBD #3422 Tue 05 September 2000, Fred L. Johnson <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net> said: >Quite frankly, I don't understand how anyone can make a good alt >(including Al Korzonas), with their characteristic high attenuation >levels, using the high levels of Munich malt I have often seen for >this style. I have simply quit trying. Suggestions are welcome! Then, in HBD #3424 Thu 07 September 2000, Warren White <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> reported: >According to Roger Protz in one of his books a leading Alt brewer like >Diebels uses 99% Pilsner Malt and 1% Roast Malt so you'd have to >question the 100% Munich thing, this would have to be a bit of a cop- >out to avoid decoction mashing I'd assume. >I'd always assumed that Munich Malt has very low enzyme levels >probably most likely making it a dubious proposition as 100% of your >grist anyway. >My line of thinking would be to use say 70% Pils Malt and then maybe >30% of a darker Munich Malt and a small bit of Caramel or an even way >smaller additon of a Roasted Malt. >Better to err on the side of higher attenuation and a drier finish >IMHO! >By the way Fred did Pete Czerpak use the Wyeast 1338 European Ale? >Because this stuff is very unattenuative (67-71%)conversely the 1007 >goes far drier (73-77%). ~~~~~~~~~~~~ WRT the fermentability of Munich and the attenuativeness of Wyeast 1338, I'd have to say it depends on the mash schedule and yeast management technique. Consider my most recent batch of Alt: Batch size: 10 gallons 20# Light Munich (87%) 3# Melanoidin (13%) 50 IBUs (German Perle, all at start of boil) Double decoction mash (20' at 142, 90' at 154F, 20' at 166F) Wyeast 1338 OG 1.065 **FG 1.010 (84.6 apparent attenuation!) Primary fermentation temperature: 60F Now I will admit that such a low FG surprised me. Actually, the OG was a little higher than I had planned (1.060). I routinely see apparent attenuation of about 78% with 1338, even with a high % of Munich in the grist, and expected this one to end up around 1.014. It's a bit potent for the style, but it doesn't taste too alcoholic. The malt flavor is intense, but is balanced pretty well by the hops. The yeast was a repitch of about 12 fl. oz. solids harvested from a previous primary ferment. I allowed it to warm gradually to room temperature, then fed it 2 quarts of fresh wort the night before brewing. It appeared marginally active at pitching. The wort was aerated with pure O2. Lag time was about 6 hours; primary fermentation was done in about 3 days. I usually test for conversion when using a large % of Munich, but I have yet to see a positive result after a 90 minute conversion stand. In this case it would appear that it had enough enzymatic power to convert whatever starch was contributed by 13% melanoidin. I've had very similar results with single infusion mashes at 150F. The Munich used in this batch was light Moravian, but I've also used Durst and Weyermann. These also converted with no problem and fermented out fine. Some may wonder why anyone would do a double decoction mash with a grain bill like this. Well, because the beer tastes good! I brewed several Alts using slight variations of Al K's recipe, but the Aromatic malt gave the beer a flavor note that was not quite German, IMHO. Sort of a raisiny, Special-B'ish flavor. A 100% light Munich grist will not have enough color. I've never used dark Munich; I think this may be where some have run into conversion problems. This most recent batch was my second using Munich and melanoidin. The first time, I used 6% melanoidin, and the beer did not have enough color for the style. When I kegged the second, I initially thought I'd overdone the melanoidin. However, after 45 days of lagering the obnoxious melanoidin flavor mellowed considerably, and melded nicely with the other flavors to make a very nice beer, IMHO. I'm planning to enter it in the Dixie Cup next month to see what the judges think. I've never had the real McCoy, but caramel or roasted flavors don't fit my paradigm of what an Alt should be. But, I'm sure someone has made a great Alt from mostly pale malt and a small portion of highly colored malt. I can't make an argument for the authenticity of mine, but I can say that IMHO it's a pretty good drink. I've never been able to decide from the published flavor descriptions whether an Alt should lean towards malt, hops, or balance of the two anyway. Cheerios, John Thomasson Aledo, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 17:01:47 -0500 From: Stephen Johnson <Stephen.Johnson at vanderbilt.edu> Subject: 5th Annual Music City Brew-Off The Music City Brewers, Nashville's homebrewing club, are proud to announce the: 5th Annual Music City Brew-Off Homebrew Competition featuring Special Guest Fred Eckhardt, beer and sake writer. All AHA styles of beer, mead, and cider will be accepted. 1999 AHA/BJCP Style guidelines will be used. Competition is AHA sanctioned. See our webpage at http://www.musiccitybrewers.com for more information and .pdf files for forms and bottle ID labels or contact the competition organizer at stephen.johnson at vanderbilt.edu. Entry Fee: $5 for each entry. Make checks payable to The Music City Brewers c/o Ken Rebman, Treasurer. Checks or money orders only please. Thank you. Entry Deadline: Entries accepted between September 1, 2000 to September 16, 2000 at 4:00PM. Drop off or send your entries to: Music City Brewers c/o Boscos Nashville Brewing Company 1805 21st Avenue South Nashville, TN 37212 Judging: Judging will begin at 9:00 AM, Saturday, September 23, 2000. Interested Judges and Stewards should contact Steve Johnson at (615) 327-4100 or via e-mail at stephen.johnson at vanderbilt.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:08:09 EDT From: Althelion at aol.com Subject: Comments on current issues "Self delusion is the key to happiness" Greetings: To John Van Hove in sub Sahara Alabama: I've used the BrewTek grainmill for the past five years with excellent results. Sure has gone up in price but has a better hopper than the cutoff plastic jug I got with mine. Adjustment screws allow you to get and maintain the "right grind." Brewing Books: I personally started with Miller's Brewing the Worlds Great Beers. Quite short by comparison but certainly as adequate as Charlies' books. Anyways, all these books are good because they are meant to be an introduction to and instruction in the art and science of homebrewing. Certainly if you stay with the hobby and develop your skills you outgrow their application. I can't remember the last time I opened TCJOHB. But when I started, I opened it all the time. I always recommend these books to beginners. After a while, you almost have to write your own book because your brewing system (equipment setup, timeframe) doesn't fit any generalized model. Re: Oats in beer - head retention I always step mash my oatmeal stouts (122 - 30 minutes; 154 - 60 minutes) and add some wheat to the grist and get pretty good head retention. Re: Dave Burley in HBD #3423 open/closed boiling I always boil open. I always figured that a major element of a vigorous boil was the vaporation(my word) of undesireable elements in the wort. Covering the pot would let these liquid heebie jeebie driplets back into the pot. I agree with Matt Brady, the sherry flavor is probably from bad extract. Got a northern brown ale finishing primary this weekend and the lower Michigan weather decides to get warm and humid again. Into the cooler for the secondary. Al Pearlstein Commerce Township, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:10:38 -0600 From: Teutonic Brewer <claassen at swcp.com> Subject: Re: Gravity contribution of starch Doug Moyer wrote: >Could one of y'all learned folks add a little info to my befuddled head? >Paul Claassen, the Teutonic Brewer <claassen at swcp.com>, said: > >"...but I doubt it was unconverted starch since I'm getting proper >extraction..." > >I've seen similar comments in my years of reading the hbd and have never >felt comfortable with such sentiments. Wouldn't unconverted starch >(oxymoron?) contribute to the gravity? Or, is it assumed that any such >starch would remain in the malt, and not make it into the solution? (Which I >don't buy into, I guess.) Could one of you macrocephalics bend a thought in >my direction? You're right, I am assuming that lower than usual extraction would mean that a lot of starch remains in the kernel, although some would certainly find its way into solution. Perhaps somebody wiser than I am would illuminate the issue. I was overly concise in my original posting. In addition to proper extraction, the mashing schedule had worked many times before, and the recirculated wort was clear. I rarely use iodine any longer because of the confidence I have in my water treatment and mashing technique. Everything else in my process being the same from batch to batch, I simply watch the extraction rate as an indicator of the quality of my mashing process. As to the resolution of my haze problem, Del <delbrew at compuserve.com> informs me that he received a batch analysis on Weissheimer Pils malt in May (about the same time that I bought my latest bunch of malt) that shows it to be quite undermodified, with a 36-37% S/T (soluble to total) protein ratio. Such a low S/T ratio requires a protein rest. The last Weissheimer Pils malt batch analysis that I saw about three years ago showed that it had a S/T ratio or Kolbach index of something like 42%, which is why I haven't been doing a protein rest. Evidently a lot of undegraded protein is carrying into my boil. When I used pellets, they contributed enough tannin to get a good hot break and a fairly clear beer. However, the whole and plug hops appear to contribute less tannin (can anyone confirm this?), leading to less hot break and an excessive cold break. The undegraded protein carrying into the beer is producing the haze, muddled taste and flavor instability. The low FAN levels are also contributing to the weaker than normal yeast performance that I've seen lately. So, I will add a protein rest to my mashing schedule and ask the local shop owner to get me a copy of the batch analysis every time I order some new malt. Paul Claassen Albuquerque, Chile Republic of New Mexico Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 00:52:10 -0300 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Leechees and Longans Actually, I like the Idea of a longan beer. If you will note, most of the Americans were very quiet about this subject. Here in the US we may have fantastic Home Brew shops but we don't have Longans or leechees, at least not fresh ones. The canned ones don't do them justice. For those who haven't had them fresh is it an indescribable delicacy. It's been 27 years since I had one. Those red spiny melon/grape/whatever tasting fruits have stuck in my mind ever since. Knock yourself out, Graham. Closest we could come over here would probably be Honeydew Melon Beer. - -- Rod Prather, PooterDuude Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
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