---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Competition Announcement (James Hinken)
  re: More on the "Otter" Malt (alastair)
  re: Sherry-like flavor from open boil (alastair)
  Decoction for an Alt? (Alan McKay)
  Re: Visiting Madison (Doug Hurst)
  mash hopping and decoction (Marc Sedam)
  dry lager yeast (Marc Sedam)
  moonshine (Marc Sedam)
  Maris Otter and cloudy beer ("Jim Verlinde")
  Sherry-like flavor from open boil ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  5~6 closed boil experiment (Althelion)
  Topsfield Fair Homebrew Competition Results (Seth Goodman)
  Belgian yeasts, Longans are great, mouth from the south ("Graham Sanders")
  Ginger Mead Questions (John Leggett)
  HSA an idea & Sparge Arms ("Warren White")
  Thanks Canberra! ("Warren White")
  ideas on making Labels? ("Donald D. Lake")
  Harsh flavour (Edward Doernberg)
  hbd with pics (Edward Doernberg)


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 06:51:04 -0700
From: James Hinken <jhinken at accessone.com>
Subject: Competition Announcement

The Brews Brothers are pleased to announce Novembeerfest 2000, the
Pacific Northwest's premier homebrewing competition. Novembeerfest is
open to all amateur brewers.  This year we have once again been
selected to representour region in the Master Championship of Amateur
Brewing competition. The lucky winners of the Master Championship of
Amateur Brewing (MCAB) qualifying events will be advanced to this
national contest to compete against the best brewers on the amateur
scene.

Novembeerfest will be held Saturday, November 4 at Larry's Homebrewing
Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103, Kent, WA 98032

Started in 1991, Novembeerfest has grown from a local competition to
the most respected competition in the Pacific Northwest.  Entries will
be accepted from all BJCP/AHA beer style categories, including cider
and mead.  The style guidelines may be viewed at www.bjcp.org.  Three
bottles are required for entry with an entry fee of U.S.$5.  The
standard AHA entry form and bottle labels may be used.  Entry forms
may also be downloaded from www.brewsbrothers.org.  Entries will be
accepted between October 8 and October 28, 2000.  They may be shipped
to

Rick Star
7640 NE 123rd St.
Kirkland WA 98034
(425) 821-9388

Entries may also be dropped off at:

Larry's Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103,Kent, WA 98032,
206-872-6846
Mountain Homebrew and Wine Supply, 8520 122nd Ave NE, Suite #B-6,
Kirkland, WA 98033,  425-803-3996
Cascade Brewing Supplies, 224 Puyallup Ave., Tacoma, WA 98421,
253-383-8980

Visit the Novembeerfest web site at www.brewsbrothers.org

For additional information, contact

Rick Star
7640 NE 123rd St.
Kirkland WA 98034
(425) 821-9388
e-mail: we_stars at msn.com

Jim Hinken
24211 4th Place West
Bothell, WA.  98021
425-483-9324
e-mail: jhinken at accessone.com

Rob Nelson
Post Office Box 1016
Duvall, WA  98019-1016
Phone: (425) 788-0271
e-mail:  Rob_Nelson at msn.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: alastair <alastair at odin.he.net>
Subject: re: More on the "Otter" Malt

> WHOLE OTTER
> Batch 582 9167 BEE JUN 00 47431
                     ^^^^^^
The "JUN 00" is the most likely problem here. This looks like a "best before" or
"use by" date. I just recieved a bag of Muntons whole otter with the following 
printed on the back:

WHOLE OTTER
BATCH 282 8170 BBE JUN 01 288021

I haven't used it yet, but will watch it carefully for any haze problems.

Good luck!
Alastair


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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: alastair <alastair at odin.he.net>
Subject: re: Sherry-like flavor from open boil

I've been following this thread and feel that the real problem being encountered
is not due to oxidization, but from non-enzymatic browning.

>From a physical point of view, having the boil totally open, or with the lid
5/6 closed will have neglegable impact on the oxygen/air contact with the
surface of the wort. However, it will change the thermodynamics of the system
and enable the boil to roll with less applied heat. This reduction in thermal
loading will reduce the formation of the compounds you have been describing.

>From my own experience and investigations, the average homebrew is subjected to
excesive thermal loading. I've discovered that maintaining the lowest possible 
rolling boil yeilds the best results. Keeping the lid partially closed is
another option, but could lead to other problems with DMS etc. DMS will
evaporate at 200F or above, but needs somewhere to go. A low open boil is a
good trade off.

For a more detailed explanation, I recommend "Principles of Brewing Science" by
George Fix. It's interesting that he notes a reduction of more than 12% of wort
volume during the boil can lead to these off flavors. This means if you're aim-
ing for a 5 gal batch after the boil, you should start at around 5.6 gals after
launtering. This is rarely the case with the typical full boil home-brewer!

Hope this helps,
Alastair


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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:27:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: Decoction for an Alt?


Further to my previous post, I totally forgot that I already knew that 
Duessel Alt and Monheimer Alt (brewed by the same brewery) definitely 
do not use decoction, either.   If I recall correctly it was 13 years
ago that they switched to infusion mashing.

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
                 "Brewers make wort.  Yeast Makes Beer."
                       - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:35:36 -0500
From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Visiting Madison

Eric Ahrendt writes:
"If you do make the trip to Capital (highly recommended) make sure to try
Kirby's 1900. One of the few commercial examples of CAP around." 

IMHO Capital 1900 is not very good.  I detect a very strong creamed corn
note in it (DMS?)  which I don't think should be so strong in a lager.  I'm
sure Kirby was going for that flavor, as it is a characteristic of the
style, but over did it.  In fact I've begun to feel that a lot of craft
brewers over emphasize particular flavor profiles in beers in an effort to
characterize the style.  This results in an unballanced beer.  Another
example are the many American IPAs which are just loaded with hops.  It's a
hoppy style, of course, but I think it is sometimes overdone. 

Maybe we need to define just exactly what a CAP is.  Is Leinenkeugel's
Original Lager a CAP?  The label states that it's been brewed with the same
recipe since 1867 (I think).  Wouldn't this make it a CAP?  Or is a CAP just
a label put on "caft beers" by snobs who are ashamed to say they like
American Pilsners and so create something to differentiate their beer from
other American Pilsners?  I would go so far as to say those people simply
*guess* that over emphasis of DMS and underemphasis of hops is what beer
tasted like in those days

What I'm getting at is that just because one particular 'style exemplifying'
flavor is highly emphasized does not mean that a beer is good or exactly
what the beer should taste like.   I think that subtlety in flavor is better
than being pounded over the head with it like an Oliver Stone movie.

By the way, I'm not saying that Capital Brewery isn't good.  In fact I think
most of the beers they put out are superb.

Please let those who disagree with me begin their diatribes,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL


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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:47:12 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: mash hopping and decoction

Mash hopping should not be detrimentally effected in a
decoction.  I would imagine that you'd get increased
bitterness, directly correlated with how long you boil the
decoction.  Of course you'll have to assume that the hops
are normally distributed in the mash and that you stir well
after each decoction to ensure that the next decoct also
takes out a representative percentage of hops.

Short answer:  same-same, but more bitterness.

I have some friends doing this as we speak and I'll report
back once finished.  I gave up on decoctions some time ago
when I re-converted to Old School Brewing.  Mash hopping is
a big part of OSB to me.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:22:08 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: dry lager yeast

Stephen Paddock, my mash hopping brother, wrote on 03
September...

"Marc Sedam was using Saflager S-23 dry lager in July. Any
results yet Marc?
And Rob Moline forwarded Dr. Cone's comments in April that a
new dry lager would
be available this year. Is there any further info on that?
Rob also pointed
out that Lallemand had a dry lager, Kroner, but it was only
stable enough
for pro-brewing distribution. We would very much like to
have:
 -a dry lager (similar in finished character to Wyeast #2112
or #2272)
 -a clean dry  high temp ale yeast (similar in finished
character to Wyeast
#1056 or #1272)
 -a crisp dry high attenuation ale yeast (similar in
finished character to
Wyeast #1275 or #1335)
 -and a malty dry yeast (similar in finished character to
Wyeast #1968 or
#1332)"
_______________

I second Stephen's requests for these dry yeasts, although I
think Nottingham covers the second request and London the
third.  I have tried several dry "lager" yeasts over the
past few months, including the S-23.  In fact I have to
thank Scott  at  DeFalco's for shipping a sample out to me to
give a whirl.  He's the man.  Here's what I know.

Vierka dry "lager" yeast:
This is a joke.  The directions on the pack suggest to
ferment at room temperature for 7-10 days, then store cold
for a few weeks (I'm paraphrasing).  Although this is
marketed as a lager yeast it's clearly not.  And it makes a
pretty crappy brew to boot.  My beer did not ferment out
well at all (stopped at 60% attenuation).  In fact I had to
finish it off with another strain.  I used a pretty
straightforward CAP recipe which always attenuates fine with
normal yeasts.  Started out at 56F and got no activity for
days.  Warmed up to 70F and, lo and behold, it starts
working.  I strongly feel that this yeast should be dropped
from any HB shop's rotation because it (1) is not as
advertised, and (2) performs like crap at lager temps.  The
beer wasn't all that tasty either.  Left a distinct diacetyl
note even after being fermented at RT.  This yeast sucks,
IMHO.

YeastLab European Lager Yeast:
I've heard from a few sources that this yeast is not a lager
yeast either.  Well, I made a maibock with it last year and
it fermented out well at temps around 48F.  Now, maybe it's
an ale yeast...maybe not.  I don't care because at least it
performs at lager temps.  The beer was well attenuated and
tasty.  It is a dry lager yeast I could recommend.  And it
comes packed in 12g packages.  I like it!

Saflager S-23 Lager Yeast:
This is relatively new product, but I do believe it's a true
lager yeast.  I've used this a few times and it does have
some interesting properties.  It does perform better at
slightly higher temps.  I fermented a CAP at 52F and things
went well.  Dropped the temps to 42 over a few days (normal
process) and it slowed down dramatically.  I suppose it
would have eventually finished over time, but I prefer to
ferment out to near completion between 48-52F, then drop the
temp down with only a few gravity points left.

I did an interesting experiment with this yeast as well.
Made 10 gallons of koelsch-style beer for a friend's
wedding.  15lbs pils malt, 2lbs wheat, mash hopped with 3oz
of Tettnang.  Single temp infusion at 152F, with an OG of
1.046.  Split the batch into equal volumes in two fermenters
and fermented one with the S-23 yeast and the other with
WhiteLabs Kolsch yeast (straight pitch from the tube).  At
the same fermentation temperature (56F) the Kolsch yeast
knocked the gravity down to 1.008 in a week.  The S-23 yeast
only made it to 1.010 but took an extra week to get there.
Also, the Kolsch-fermented beer was CRYSTAL clear after
three weeks lagering at 30F.  The S-23-fermented batch was
still kinda cloudy.  There was no discernible taste
difference between the two.  I ended up blending prior to
bottling--outside of the bride, the beer was the hit of the
wedding.

Lastly, I was having trouble reaching terminal gravity on
another beer.  I pitched a rehydrated pack of S-23 in the
fermenter and fermented at room temps (73F).  The beer gave
off a flavor which has since been described as "Banana Now
n' Laters".  Nasty stuff.  Three weeks of lagering at 30F
have dissipated the taste mostly, but some remains.  Let
that be a lesson to you sinners who try to ferment lagers at
RT.

The net result of my experience with the S-23 yeast is that
it works, but takes a bit more time than other lager yeasts
do.  It does seem to have some problems clearing (my CAP
took some time as well) but I've never tried fining to get
rid of it either.  It may have to do with the drying
process, but without my handy PCR thermal cycler and a
genotype I can't prove it's not really an ale yeast.  Nor do
I care.  I plan to use the S-23 for most of my lagers
because I've become burnt out on trying to culture yeast for
the time being.  I have the patience.  Saflager also has
another dry lager strain (S-178?) but it's not readily
available to the homebrew market.

Well, there you have it.  What you always wanted to know
about dry lager yeast but didn't know you wanted to know
therefore didn't ask.

Cheers!
Marc
"Real brewers mash-hop."



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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:22:41 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: moonshine

Tangentially related, but if you read some of the text they
do mention mashing and "dark beer".

http://www.ibiblio.org/moonshine/index.html

It's an interesting read.


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:21:48 -0400
From: "Jim Verlinde" <beans at voyager.net>
Subject: Maris Otter and cloudy beer

Joel Plutchak states he has been getting cloudy beer from using Beeston's
Maris Otter malt.
Hmmmmmm....... and I thought it was just me.
I have been using a bag of Beeston's Maris Otter for about 9 months and
can't seem to get a clear brew. Anyone else experience these results?

Jim
Grand Rapids, MI




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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:25:47 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Sherry-like flavor from open boil

Dave Burley writes of open boils:

>Both Al Pearlstein and Matt Brady conclude that the totally open boil,
>which even professional brewers do not do, but  which Al and Matt always
>do, couldn't possibly contribute to oxidative browning and a sherry-like
>flavor in their beers.  

>I am not persuaded by the argument that the browning and sherry-like flavor
>is due to extract since I did the experiment in my early brewing days with
>extract and saw the difference. 

I wouldn't totally discount the possibility of the extract's role here.
While doing some research for SWMBO's Technical Writing class last year I
came across a reference that does provide some correlation between poorly
kept,  processed or old extracts and Malliard (spp?) reactions which cause
browning and, I think, flavors (which may be sherry-like).  Wouldn't you
know she had to pick MY hobby for HER mock proposal!  The reference claimed
that Malliard reactions will take place in the can, especially if the
extract is old and poorly stored (high temp).  For the life of me I can't
remember where I saw this, but perhaps a few more hours of sleep and access
to my brewing library at home and I'll be a bit more credible ;-)

While I agree with Dave 100% on the partial boil (I've seen the results for
myself), I don't think the extract should be discounted entirely.  It may
have contributed to the overall problem.  Malliard reactions (browning) will
occur especially at higher temps.  Camelization, which is separate from
browning, also occurs at higher temps.  Now I'm sure you all will realize
that keeping the lid partially on a large pot will retain more of the heat
required to drive the boil to a good roll.  Leaving the top off requires
more heat to be applied to the vessel in order to maintain the same vigor of
boil that a partially closed one will achieve with less applied heat.  Now
add Dave's oxygen rich interface to the mix...


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:22:41 EDT
From: Althelion at aol.com
Subject: 5~6 closed boil experiment


Greetings:

Always up to an experiment challenge, I will take Dave Burley's suggestion to 
do a 5~6 closed boil on the Wee Heavy I'm planning to brew in early October. 
However, I do need a bit of advice. I've got the rate of evaporation from my 
open boiling down pat: My wort topped off to about 7 1/4 gallons open boils 
down in 75 minutes with hot break and other particle separation to right 
around 5 gallons at my desired o.g. So, my question is thus: with a 5~6 
closed lid on the pot, how much less wort should I start the boil with? It 
appears, with the vigorous boil of my cajun cooker, I would still need to top 
of to between 6 1/2 and 6 3/4 gallons to achieve the same 5 gallon final 
volume. I'd rather boil down to the correct volume/og than top off after 
cooling. However, I'd err on the lower volume side if had to. Any and all 
suggestions/rationale would be appreciated.

Al Pearlstein
Commerce Township, Michigan


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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:26:49 -0400
From: Seth Goodman <sethgoodman at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Topsfield Fair Homebrew Competition Results

We have posted the results of the Topsfield Fair Homebrew Competition at:
<http://hbd.org/northshore/Topsfair%20Results.html>.

Congratulations to the winners, and many thanks to all those who helped us 
to make this year's competition a success.

- --
Seth Goodman
Vice President
North Shore Brewers
http://hbd.org/northshore




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:21:38 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Belgian yeasts, Longans are great, mouth from the south

G'day All

Well I find it amazing (actually not really). You stomp on one cockie, and
it reappears, but this time more crawl out from the floorboards. Time to
put on the other shoe on to deal with it.(David Lamotte I can truely say,
your photo does you justice)

But to all you who wait with baited breath about my home roasting, blame
those pesty cockies for the delay.  I have just finished smoking 750 grams
of schnooner malt with silky oak chips (this is not an real oak by the way
but a rain forrest tree of great value), so unlike some Hiltonites I do
practice what I preach. What this in aid of. Well each year I make my famous
Nth Qld Rauch Beer for Christmas/Newyear fun.  Not to poo poo a certain
oriental lager, but this makes it look like sewage compared to the delights
of the nectare of a smoked beer blessed by the Gods themselves.

But a serious question to those who know their belgian yeast strains. I read
that both Whitelabs 500 and Wyeast 1214 are susposed to be "Chimay strains".
So when I get both I decide to do two brews (say that quickly when your
drunk).  Anyway I do two similar brews side by side.  I hate to say it but
the yeasts don't perform identical.  The 500 ferments slower and has more
fruity esters while the 1214 seems to ferment dryer with more phenolics
(forgive me if I don't explain these flavours properly.)

Anyway, to me the 500 seems far more Chimayish than 1214.  Can anyone give
me an idea of their experience with one/both these babies and their
opinions. I can't belive they're both Chimay clones, or am I chasing the
wrong monk.  On another issue, Wyeast 3787 is susposed to be "westmalle".
But can anyone tell me if its the dubbel or tripple - or both.

Now Rod says

Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 00:52:10 -0300
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Leechees and Longans

Those red spiny melon/grape/whatever
tasting fruits have stuck in my mind ever since.

Knock yourself out, Graham.  Closest we could come over here would probably
be Honeydew Melon Beer.

_________________

Well you might be getting your Rambutans mixed up with your Lychies and
Longans, But when you live in paradise itself, and actually have these trees
growing in your back yard, and there is soooo much fruit that it rots on
the ground, well there is no question, YOU WOULD LIVE NOWHERE ELSE.
Certainly not South of the Border. Any wonder i can throw in 5 kg of this
into a lambic and not even worry about it.

_______________________

Now as to Phill actually trying to find me.  well mate tell the whole truth
will you.  The only effort you made was to struggle to the First Class
Lounge, and in between a XXXX you made a feeble attempt to contact me.  If
you actually looked up Master Craftbrewer in the yellow pages you would
have found me.  Rumor has it they has to use your carton of rice lager to
wash off the grim off the windscreen before they would allow you to take
off.
No-one believed it was actually drinkable.

And I dont need your drug induced Ayinger Yeast.  My yeast culture has been
blessed by a high Priest from the Church of the GOOD, and is now the most
morally upstanding yeast in the country, unlike the highly immoral yeast
arround the billard table.

And yes, its actually true what David  says about the Townsville Airport.
We'll make you walk accross Phill's path.  You can even kick the tyres if
you didn't like the landing, and if you are tough enough to survive the
walk to the building, well well give you a chance to survive up here.  They
say it get up over 50 c where they park those broom broom jets in high
summer.

And to those doubting Thomas's about the carton entry fee, well ask Steve
Lacey and Scott Morgan.  Scott has already paid his carton entry fee and
your passport is on the way, and Steve has decided to pay his in
instalments.  Thats fine too, just remember thats there interest payments if
you dont pay on time.

Shout

Graham Sanders

OH

I know those guys actually respect me truthfully.  Last time I was called
Mr Graham Sanders I was in court, and  .....  ah .......   well  .........
the charges were thrown out, with the dope, still, imported rice lager,
spirits, fungus, guns and the other SWMBO's( only have one now).  But the
judge did seems impressed to call me MR.





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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:42:06 -0400
From: John Leggett <leggettjr at home.com>
Subject: Ginger Mead Questions

Just last Sunday, I made my first mead. 7lbs honey, 3 knobs of ginger,
3lbs rasberry puree (added after the boil), Wyeast sweet mead yeast,
nutrient, etc... My question is this, has anyone ever dry hopped raw
ginger into a mead ?  Is there any risk of introducing bacteria into the
must by dry hopping with ginger ? I desire a strong ginger flavor and
I'm a little worried there may be too much raspberry in the whole mess ?
By the way I currently have rigorous fermentation and I plan to rack to
a secondary for 6 weeks or so.  Anyone have pointers or info on the
Ginger ? Private e-mail ok. thanks Brew-on.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:01:13 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: HSA an idea & Sparge Arms

Dave Burley writes...

Subject: Sherry-like flavor from open boil

Brewsters:

Both Al Pearlstein and Matt Brady conclude that the totally open boil,
which even professional brewers do not do, but  which Al and Matt always
do, couldn't possibly contribute to oxidative browning and a sherry-like
flavor in their beers.  It's fine to have an opinion, but it is not very
persuasive until you try the experiment. Go ahead.  It's easy.  After the
boilup, keep the lid mostly on ( ~5/6) during the hour long boil. You will
be pleasantly surprised if you are also careful in other stages to keep
oxygen out of your hot wort. The best experiment is, of course, to do one
kettle open and one partially closed on the same wort and compare the worts
and beers.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

There are paradoxical forces at work here, are there not?
1. How does one boil with one's lid on and avoid the inevitable... Namely a 
nice boilover?
2. How does one achieve a reasonable evaporation rate in say... Less than 5 
or 6 hours?
The possibly of HSA during an open boil would have to be the biggest case of 
paranoia since the cold war yes/no?
I've never laid claim to be any form of Einstein / Pasteur and frankly 
long-winded technical threads are purely a form of cyber-tennis for the 
technically adept, doesn't boiling by virtue of its very nature drive off or 
supress oxygen via the rising steam??
IMHO Leaving the lid off your bloody boilers constitutes the least of one's 
worries about HSA, I'd be pointing my finger more at your mash-handling 
techniques, i.e. from Mash Tun to Lauter Tun, you'd be getting warmer then 
(especially if I pointed my finger in the mash).

Here's a little tip for you all if you're worried about Oxygen in your hot 
wort...
Take a well-sterilised and cleaned Live Fish and pop him in your hot wort, 
(might pay to use a Tropical Fish), if he breathes,  *kill him anyway or 
he'll drink all your hort wort,  hit that panic button, or shit one's pants 
(whatever gets you through the night), you have HSA, if he dies... REJOICE 
for 3 reasons (1) ye have an oxygen free wort (2) ye have a lovely meal 
coming up me hearties! and (3) you can swipe that much-anticipated aeration 
stone out of the aquarium that the SO would otherwise never let you have! So 
there you have it you are actually killing two, oops... three birds, sorry 
fish with the one stone, hell you could even use the aeration stone.

(Disclaimer* This author recommends the killing of live fish for 
experimental purposes only, do not use live plants as a substitute for live 
fish owing to the possibility of photosynthesis! No live fish were killed in 
the making of this article.)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

My Belgophilic Consultant, fellow Australian and fellow Orval-Hater Graham 
Sanders says...


Well one has to feel sorry for poor old Warren.  True he live at the
Ass -hole end of this country and this probably alone explains his actions.
Lets face it, not too many people in the space of a week can upset soooo
many people.  The Chinese are after him, the Hong Kong Water Board, Master
Brewers of Belgians, it seems half the rightous crowd in the good ol'USA,
well at this rate he couldn't even satisfy his SWMBO with new batteries.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Graham me little Bell'O'Townsville...

Melbourne being the arse-end of Australia will alway quite logically be the 
place where all da poop comes out! I am truly the skid-mark of the HBD.
On top of all the people that are after me, I've got a one-armed man as 
well... well actually he has one arm and in place of the other one he's got 
a Phil's Sparge Arm, so logically he's giving me a pretty good spray! Not to 
mention these S11 Protesters belting on my car!
I'm donning me potato sack and grabbing me pillow taking my photocopies of 
your lychee lambic plans, selling them to a multi-national and I'm outta 
here! (For the next hour at least) Mainly cause the SWMBO just called and 
asked me to pick up some NiCads on the way home! Woohoo!

Cheers - Dr. Richard Kimble "The Fugitive"

Warren L. White, Melbourne, Australia
If Australia be a calendar, Melbourne be its date!
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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:21:49 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Thanks Canberra!

A bit of flattery for Canberra for a change!

In true spirit of Homebrewing fellowship I'd like to thank a Homebrew store 
proprietor by the name of Colin Marshall for his most generous offer of the 
free service of a capping head to solve my champagne bottle quandry!
Any of you people in that state of Australia that is renowned for those fat 
over-paid people of parliament who sit around and slag off at each other (No 
not the HBD) namely the ACT / Canberra. He hails at the BrewYourOwnAtHome 
(all one word).

Homebrewers of Canberra, you know where your Yellow Pages are if you don't 
shop there already... No afilliations etc. etc. Just appreciative. Thanks 
Colin! We need more of ya!

Grateful Melburnian,
Warren L. White
(Type fast and prosper!)
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:26:03 -0400
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake at gdi.net>
Subject: ideas on making Labels?

I'm looking for an affordable way to make some labels for gift beers.
Does anyone have a template available in Word or something similar.  For
my 1999 Holiday Ale, I did my own from scratch on Microsoft Photodraw.
They turned out great but when I counted it up, I had 2 times as much
time and money in the labels vs brewing the beer.

I found this business listed in the Sept Real Beer Page Mail.  It looks
like very high quality but the price is way up there.  They even do the
neck labels which are difficult to make.  According to my calculations,
it would cost $124 for the front,back and neck labels for 48
beers....yikes!  There must be a better way.

check it out though  http://www.myownlabels.com/

Don Lake



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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:02:45 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au>
Subject: Harsh flavour

Harsh flavour.

Some of you may remember I posted about my first mashed beer having a hash
flavour. It is now carbonated and it is all but undrinkable. It is a
terrible harsh aftertaste that lingers on the back of the sides of the tong.

The recipe

Batch size 22L
5.5kg 2 row 91.7%
500g crystal 8.3%
there were 2 28g additions of EKG but the times were not recorded, I assume
60min and 15min.

I put this down to scorching the grain because I use a direct fired mash tun
and at the time it had no insulation so the temp was erratic and I was
forever boosting it back up.

I since added some crood insulation to the mash tun and it now holds mash
temp within 2C for 15-20min and then I boost it.

My 2nd batch was a wit with over 50% wheat that I couldn't taste any
harshness in at bottling but it had lots of other flavours.

My third batch was yesterday. Was a mild.

Size 30L

4 kg Pale malt 84.2%
250g chocolate malt 5.3%
500g crystal 10.5%

20g willamette for 60min = 13.6 ibu
30g willamette for 15min = 5.4 ibu

this was split and used 2 yeasts.

OG 1.040 85% extraction

I cold taste the same harshness on the wort of this batch as I taste in the
finished pale (the hire SG of the pale would have masked it in the wort.

A brief description of the brewing set up I use is at
http://www.q-net.net.au/~shevedd/My_Brewery.htm.

I did have some ideas I would like comments on. 

1: I am still scorching the grain so I should get better insulation and
limit myself to infusion mashes with a second infusion to mahout.

2: the kettle is aluminium, I did boil it first but it wasn't completely
full and it was for the mild. The aluminium coursed the flavour because I
didn't boil long enough before the pale and didn't boil the top section
before eth mild. Solution fill pot to the brim and boil for a long time with
mildly acidic water. Or replace it.

3: I am over sparging or sparging to fast, I did sparge fairly fast and I
didn't cheek the final sg. It was very god extraction to so this could be
it. I did taste the final running and I didn't notice any astringency but
they where watery (hay this are the final running on a mild can it be that
strange).

4: something I'm to stupid to have realised even if it is right in front of
my face.

Any comments welcome. If nether the pale or the mild taste good when the
mild goes out of secondary the mild will be dumped on the grounds that
another beer with the same problem didn't come good in 2 month's in the
bottle. (Which the pale will have had by then) and I'm not doing 80 bottles
up so I can empty them down the drain in 3 months time.

Edward



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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:02:48 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au>
Subject: hbd with pics


I have to say I don't think its needed, no method would make it easier for
posters than it is now (post a link to web-space you own, rent or get free)

The only way to ensure the links remain active indefinitely is to fork over
money for additional storage and the digest is currently being given free
bandwidth, lots of big pictures could change that. 

If you cant say it in text then find some web-space and post a link. 

If you don't like the digest as it is then offer to put in the cash and time
to change it. 

I just get so mad at people that expect a free service that nobody is making
a dime of it to have all the bels and whistles that are expected of a
commercial enterprise.

Sorry this is stating to sound like a rant and there is beer-related stuff I
want to say.

Edward




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