---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  German Bitter and Mild? (Philip Ritson)
  Weissheimer analysis ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  re:DMS diatribe ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  What to brew in Turkey with odds and ends (Breweler)
  Oak for Beer (Drew Beechum)
  CAP? (TOLLEY Matthew)
  farewell and up yours! (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Old Homebrew datapoint ("Grant Stott")
  Uk Homebrew list service (Tony Barnsley)
  Silicon Valley Brewpubs? ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Sook ahoy. ("Dave Edwards")
  RE: One Final Word... (Some Guy)
  Re: Beeston's Maris Otter & English Malts... (Joel Plutchak)
  museum exhibit (Booth)
  The demise of HBD ("Tony Clifton")
  Nov-Dec Zymurgy ("Ray Daniels")
  re: "Mom, Tony's saying bad things", double milling and covered boils ("Brian Lundeen")
  milling grain (kevin m mueller)
  RE:  Demise of the HBD ("Schultz, Steven W SBCCOM")
  Refractometer ("Dennis Lewis")
  Brewery automation (Mike Kowalczyk)
  Ozzie Beer News (David Lamotte)


* 
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:38:17 +0930
From: Philip Ritson <philip.ritson at adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: German Bitter and Mild?

On a recent trip to the UK I consumed British Bitter and Mild with a
vengeance.  Pints of Bass, Fullers, Banks, Theakstons, Samuel Smith,
Marstons, Tetley, Cains, and even Greenhalls became my constant
companions.  As an aspiring all-grainer, brewing my own British ale is
now a high priority.

The key to these beers seemed to be the British ability to get a lot of
flavor into a low gravity  Beer.  Clearly British malts play a
big part in the profile of British Beer; but, here in Australia Marris
Otter is not exactly the easiest thing to find and when you find it its
expensive.  So, how can I squeeze the maximum flavor from Australian
malts (most of which are intended to feed a bland lager based
industry)?  Yeah I know, Munich malt will help and  I can make my own
Munich at home in the oven; but I'm wondering if a decoction mash might
be a better alternative.  

OK its time consuming; OK its really hard; OK I'll get stuck sparges; OK
its so untraditional that "decoction" is probably a swear word in
Tadcaster, Masham, Burton on Trent etc. etc. and yes I know, "don't
mention the war": But will it work?  

Has anyone decocted lager malts to make a British Bitter or Mild?  If
so, what was the schedule and how did it turn out?

Philip Ritson

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Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:22:38 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Weissheimer analysis

Paul Shick asks for more specific info on lot analysis.
I have what would appear to be a lot analysis but it doesn't
specifically give a lot#, it has a "note no." 71215 that happens to be
the same as the "analysis no." 71215.  
moisture,%                                 4
extract (dry matter)  %             81.8
extract diff. (dry)         %             1.5
color of wort, EBC                      2.7
boiled wort color, EBC              4.6
hartong index 45C                   35.4
protein (dry matter) %               11
souluble nitrogen mg/100g   662
kolbach index                              37.6
viscosity 8,6% mPas                   1.58
friability  %                                   88
fully vitreous grains, %                0.5

Hopes this helps you out.
   N.P. Lansing


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:53:46 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:DMS diatribe

Doug asked:
>>.  Is Rolling Rock
considered a CAP? <<

I never really said that... NL>> 2 nearby regionals that brew
post-prohibition
recipes
use a 2 hour hot whirlpool to bring out the DMS character. If you can find
Rolling Rock on tap...try 1 and see if the
DMS in Kirby's 1900 approach that level. <<
      I was using RR as a benchmark for DMS. If you could take the DMS
levels of a RR, add the bitterness of a P. Urquel add the maltiness of
a DAB, with a corn character that didn't jump in your face but melded with
the grain character; that is as best as I can translate a good CAP into
words.
>> Or maybe I just don't like CAPs.<<
Geez,  if I had a batch I'd send you one so you'd see. 
Maybe later in the year, remind me in a few months.

NPL


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:32:11 EDT
From: Breweler at aol.com
Subject: What to brew in Turkey with odds and ends


Todd Weaver asked what to brew using odds and ends he had after moving to 
Turkey...

With the ingredients you have on hand, Todd, you could brew a very nice pale 
ale, a scrumptious porter, an excellent brown ale, or you could be a wildman 
and make a batch of "Everything But the Kitchen Sink--Odds and Ends Ale" by 
using All your leftover ingredients.  I'll bet it would be a very tasty, 
strong, dark ale that would defy standard style descriptors.  Good luck with 
whichever you brew, and let us know how it turned out.

Mark Videan
Breweler at aol.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:19:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Drew Beechum <Drew.Beechum at disney.com>
Subject: Oak for Beer


You know.. the shop i go to the Home Beer Wine Cheesmaking Shop sells
both "oak chips" and "oak beans". The chips are literaly just oak
shavings available in French and American (Oregon) Oak. The Beans are
actual barrel staves cubed into smaller parts. These are what I use
and recommend (they're slightly more expensive, but much smoother.)

Earlier this year I did a Bourbon Barrell Smoked Porter that worked
really nicely and I just tapped an Oaked American IPA. Both have
earned good reviews.

Check out http://www.homebeerwinecheese.com/ for more
information. (John, doesn't have a catalog, but he answers questions
and ships same day via 1-800-#) 

- -- Drew
 - Satisfied Customer (and very occasional shop assistant)



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:08:46 +1000
From: TOLLEY Matthew <matthew.tolley at atsic.gov.au>
Subject: CAP?

I give up.  Would somebody please tell this poor dumb Aussie:  what the hell
is a CAP?  I thought I'd try to find out myself on the net, but predictably
enough, looking for 'cap' and 'beer' gives me an endless supply of pages
about devices used to stop beer falling out of bottles.  Common American
Pale?  Crap Australian Pils (we call it 'Tooheys' here)?  Californian
Avocado and Prawn?  Thanks :)

Well, my first brew has been in the bottle a couple of weeks now.  It's not
what I'd call good beer - drinkable, but not something I'd choose to drink.

I blame not pitching a vigorous enough yeast starter to completely ferment
an all-malt wort, and fermenting too cold (a bit above 15oC most of the
time, but those Canberra cold snaps overnight probably didn't help).  Don't
get me wrong - it's got good clarity, no chill haze, no off flavours that I
can notice, so I'm more confident in my sanitation and technique.  It's just
very dark, and a bit 'heavy' in the mouth - might have something to do with
bottling a 1.068 OG wort after it seemed to have irrevocably stalled at
1.020 :).  Not to worry - back to the brewing board.  I'll set a six aside
and see how it turns out - you never know.  Might take advantage of the cool
weather to do something 'lawnmower-ish' for summer.

Can you still call SWMBO 'SWMBO' if she takes your fermenter and starts
brewing herself? :)  My other half knocked up what looks like being a very
tasty ginger ale on the weekend with a Coopers lager kit, half a kilo of
honey and plenty of fresh ginger.  She pitched a mega starter, and it took
off like a rocket.  She took a reading last night - almost done, with a
beautiful straw colour and a great ginger aroma.  I hate her :)

Cheers
 ...Matt...


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:44:50 +1100 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at aus.sun.com>
Subject: farewell and up yours!

well glad to see that you have unsubcribed from the HBD. Good
ridence to you.

Interesting to see that "I can't bear to read another 
stupid fictional account of the alternative lifestyles in 
Australia."

good to see that you are perceptive and empathetic to other cultures, 
their humours and take on life. Are we setting an agenda for American 
Cultural Imperialism on the HBD?? If so up yours.

Its the Internet buddy, and open network, that whole global
community thing.....????????

I did not see any Aussies coming online and lampooning the 
homebrewers=drunks debate as well as the diversion into
politics and religion but a few weeks ago on the HBD.we aussies 
facilitate the page down key much better i assume. Or, is it a case
that the OEM'd keyboards re-sold in the USA are missing that facility.

Are we then to say that Graham Saunders efforts re yeast culturing and
malt roasting are in vain? This represents a whole lot of effort and
i dont see this coming from you. Rather a stance of detraction has
been taken compared to turning around and actively contributing to
"improve" the HBD and raise it to "your" standards.

To unsubscribe is a weak option. 

See you on (if you dare);

http://www.morgansbrewing.com.au/discussion/index.phtml

Scotty


p.s. all persoanl attacks and response i will more than happily delete!



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:30:37 +1000
From: "Grant Stott" <gstott at primus.com.au>
Subject: Old Homebrew datapoint

For those who may be interested, I cracked open my last bottle of Imperial
Pale Ale (recipe from Graham Wheeler, Home Brewing the CAMRA guide). This
was my 3rd batch of all grain, brewed nearly 2 years ago.
The bottle was subjected to ambient temp. changes for 18mths then stored in
the fridge for the last 6 mths. Hop & malt character has diminished
considerably and the palate is a little thin, the aroma still shows up the
flaked maize, & the character from the maize & flaked wheat is still
evident. (when young it reminded me of breakfast cereal but after a couple
of months the flavours blended to produce a great beer).

Anyway I just wanted to point out that a mid gravity (O.G approx. 1.050)
poorly stored bottle of homebrew can age gracefully. We are not doomed to
suffer overpowering sherry or cardboard flavours.

Also thanks to Dan and Alan for answering my recent inquiries.

p.s. Edward a pH test kit for aquariums from the local pet shop is a good
cheap             alternative to ph test strips.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:23:30 +0100
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Uk Homebrew list service

Hi all, 

Apologies for the (yet again) sort of off topic post

I Posted recently about the temporary demise of the UK Homebrew list hosted
by BreWorld. Well It is now back up and running. However in the mean time a
group of the long term contributors (pre BreWorld), have got together
(virtually) and set up an alternative list, Many (most) of the BreWorld list
subscribers have already moved to the new one.

Why did we take this extreme action? Well this is the second time this year
that ALL the subscribers have vanished, there does not appear to be a backup
of the subscriber list (I may, or may not, be wrong). Again it happened
while the list owner (janitor) was on holiday sampling the beers of Belgium.
Nobody at BreWorld was able to sort the mess out. We decided to take direct
action and set up

UK Homebrew - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK, 
              managed by home brewers for home brewers

and this is hosted on a public listgroup server at SmartGroups.com. This is
going to be owned & managed by several of the more regular contributors to
the group. Hopefully any problems will be sorted with alacrity, or may be
not, after all I am one of the 'janitors'. to borrow a phrase.

Enough of my ramblings. The important bits 

To Subscribe send a blank email (everything else is ignored) to

uk.homebrew-subscribe at smartgroups.com

To get the Digest version mail to

uk-homebrew-setdigest at smartgroups.com

AND THE REALLY IMPORTANT BIT WHICH IS WHY I AM SHOUTING

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 

uk.homebrew-unsubscribe at smartgroups.com

In all cases, (I Think) you will get a mail back to confirm that you want to
join / leave / digest etc. Just hit reply and everything is sorted.

If not and you need to get hold of a real person (Allegedly) send a mail to

uk-homebrew-owner at smartgroups.com

and eventually one of us will respond

We are grateful to Thomas Lange and BreWorld for all the time and effort
that they put into hosting the list over the past year or so, but the
consensus among 'The Inner Circle' (as we have been referred to) was that
perhaps it was time to move on.

- --

Wassail!

The Scurrilous Aleman
Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Reply To Aleman At brewmaster Dot demon Dot co Dot uk
ICQ 46254361

UK HOMEBREW - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK, 
              managed by home brewers, for home brewers


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 07:41:04 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Silicon Valley Brewpubs?

A member of my homebrew club is going to the Santa Clara, Silicon Valley area
for a conference shortly. Any suggestions for local brewpubs to visit?

Thanks to all who responded to my last request for brewpub suggestions for
club members taking a trip from Fl to Vermont. Got some excellent responses.
If you're interested in seeing a report of their trip with brewpub reviews,
check out their story in our latest club newsletter
http://hbd.org/hogtown/news/2000aug/vermont.html

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL



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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:31:03 +0930
From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au>
Subject: Sook ahoy.

Some fella who has graduated from being an assistant baiter, though this to
be a worthy comment of the digest:

| I am so very disappointed in the direction the (once beloved) HomeBrew
Digest
| has taken over these past several months.  As a long time subscriber, it
| saddens me to see it so.  What was once a highly enjoyable forum of ideas,
| experiments and information related to homebrew and brewing has now become
so
| heavily overshadowed with random nonsense, personal diatribes and noise
that
| I no longer look forward to it's receipt.  I can't bear to read another
| stupid fictional account of the alternative lifestyles in Australia.  The
| current incarnation of "Dr. Pivo" is also somewhat lacking over the
origional
| (or hadn't the rest of you realized the difference?) in terms of his depth
of
| brewing knowledge and contributions.
|
| I have therefore unsubscribed myself.
|
| I will check back in a while in hopes that the perpetrators will have
tired
| of their nonsense and moved on to some other hobby, and that the
discussion
| will have returned to it's previous high quality.  Good Luck Digest
| bretheren...  you'll need it.
|
| Adieu,
| Fred Wills
| Londonderry, NH

Why don't you just go and sit in the corner and have a big cry, go on, let
it all out. You are a sook, the biggest I have yet found. Just because we
are different in our culture and lifestyles, does not give you reason to bag
us. One day you will wake up to yourself and realise that perhaps you are
not the most cultured and refined person to exist in this world, and are in
fact a bit of a pretentious wanker.

A bit of a laugh keeps one sane. If your 100% serious all of the time, you
are leading a sad existance.

Cheers,
Dave.




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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:57:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: RE: One Final Word...


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

> I find it quite absurd that so many people seem worried about dirty
> pictures being sent around should the HBD allow images.  By your own
> arguments we should now be inundated by dirty jokes in text form,
> but I have not seen a-one.

A testament to the vigilence of the Janitors! They do appear occasionally,
and we reject them at the queue (and you thought Karl and I were just
another couple of pretty faces...). Most notable, in direct correlation
with this subject, I remember rejecting a post poking fun at a person's
regionality in terms of, er, "sexual preferences" containing an url to a
picture depicting a most unnatural situation with a sheep. Thank goodness
I checked the URL, but, moreover, thank goodness I don't have to on a
regular basis, or the "moderation" would be forced to a most "low" level
as I barely have time with life, career and family to check the text
queue....

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:52:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Beeston's Maris Otter & English Malts...


In HBD #3430 Stephen Ross of Paddock Wood says:
>I think that the Maris Otter that was causing the problems was from
>Munton's not Beeston's.  

   The extreme clouding problem I reported was, as I stated,
from using Beeston Maris Otter.  I *know* this.  It was not
Munton's.

>Wholesalers can buy in massive quantities.  If a wholesaler sells
>older malt and a brewshop buys it and sells it even staler, it isn't
>the maltsters fault.

   In my case, the grain was purchased directly from the sole(?)
US importer of Beeston's malts.  Kinda cuts out a lot of middlemen
who would let the malt sit around for years.

   As I said, the Maris Otter was the only Beeston malt that
had the haze feature.  The Pipkin, Halcyon, pilsner, and Scottish
malts, as well as various specialty malts, have all worked well
for us.  Maris Otter from various suppliers has given people
hazy beer-- it's been mentioned indepedently by people locally
to me, here in HBD, and in the USENET rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup.
The "feature" exists.
- -- 
Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu>
Drinking hazy bitter in East-central Illinois



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:08:45 -0400
From: Booth <kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: museum exhibit

Subject:
          TipWorld's Beer [WINE AND BEER EXHIBIT - 09/15/2000]
    Date:
          Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:16:06 -0700
   From:
          TipWorld <tipworld at boing.topica.com>
      To:
          tipworld-beer-fsp at topica.com




T I P W O R L D
http://www.tipworld.com
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
B E E R
September 15th, 2000




===============================================================
TODAY'S TIP: WINE AND BEER EXHIBIT
By Susan Reigler


"Drink and Be Merry: Wine and Beer in Ancient Times" is a special
exhibit on display at the Jewish Museum in New York City now through
November 5. Beer is practically as old as civilization, since the
grains grown in the Fertile Crescent of the Tigris and Euphrates
Rivers were the ones fermented for ancient beer making.

Among the artifacts in the exhibit are early grain sieves and ornate
drinking vessels. Some 5,000 years of beer and wine history are
recounted in the show, from 4,000 B.C. to the seventh century, when
the rise of Islam put the brakes on alcohol consumption. For more
information, you can visit the Web site at

http://www.thejewishmuseum.org



Susan Reigler is a proud graduate of Oldenberg Beer Camp (where she
was introduced to the glories of weiss beer) and Oxford University
(where, in addition to earning a Master's degree in zoology, she
discovered the virtuosity of British Brewers' Art). As restaurant
critic since 1992 for The Louisville Courier-Journal, she has written
extensively on food, wine, beer, and spirits.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:05:22 GMT
From: "Tony Clifton" <cybercrusader at hotmail.com>
Subject: The demise of HBD

Fred Wills bids us all farewell and laments:

<<I am so very disappointed in the direction the (once beloved) HomeBrew 
Digest has taken over these past several months.  As a long time subscriber, 
it saddens me to see it so.  What was once a highly enjoyable forum of 
ideas, experiments and information related to homebrew and brewing has now 
become so heavily overshadowed with random nonsense, personal diatribes and 
noise that
I no longer look forward to it's receipt.>>

Then he drops THE BOMB on us:

<<I have therefore unsubscribed myself.>>

Fred, you know what they say about leaving the party early?  MORE BEER FOR 
US!

In all seriouslessness though, I never met a bigger bunch of stiffs in my 
life!  We are BREWERS AND BEER DRINKERS for crying out loud!  HAVE SOME FUN!

Why is it that all the BREWERS and BEER DRINKERS I meet in real life are 
such FUN guys?  Something terrible must happen to you guys when you sit at a 
computer and get all tight-arsed.  Or, maybe Pivo is right and it IS the 
Iodophore.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know there's a time and a place for everything, but 
what's wrong with studying and having fun at the same time?  Don't you have 
a SCROLL BAR on your computer like I do?  Nobody says you HAVE to read the 
whole damn Digest!

As for you Fred, I don't believe for one moment that you will be leaving us. 
  You'll just lurk and continue to read the WHOLE digest just like you've 
been doing for all these years.  But if it makes you feel happy, I'll say 
this:

PLEASE DON'T GO FRED. PLEASE?

That's it, I'm done.

Tony Clifton

P.S - I know I've haven't contributed much at all in the way of beer info to 
this forum yet, but I promise I will when I start brewing agin.  YOU'LL SEE!
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.



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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:23:37 -0500
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Nov-Dec Zymurgy

Hello all:

A couple of notes about Zymurgy.

First my sincere apologies to Jeff Renner for our failure to include his
byline on the opening
spread of his excellent article about Classic American Pilsener in the
Sept-Oct issue.  As a writer
myself, I know how maddening it is not to receive recognition for your work.
I've had the
design department print out some color proofs of the spread that DO include
the byline and I'll
be sending those along to Jeff shortly.  My thanks to him for being so
understanding of our error
on this occasion.

Second, two notes about the Nov-Dec issue.

First, we are going to cover that staple of homebrewing, malt extract.
While I know that many
on this digest no longer use malt extract to any great extent in their
brewing, the vast majority of
the brewing public does.  Thus we felt it was important to include some
coverage that would be
relevant to readers who still see extract as the primary base for every
brew.  Of course I still think
some of the stories will be of interest to HBDers - one is a taste test of
no-boil kits by a panel of
accomplished beer judges.  Another takes a look at NHC gold medal winners
that were made
mostly from extract in recent years to see what might be learned about
brewing great beers with
extract.  We also have an important piece on the possible dangers of using
fruit in beer - a topic
which has nothing to do with extract.

For those in need of Kolbach indexes and flocculation coefficients, we will
introduce a new
section in the Nov-Dec issue entitled "For Geeks Only."  This four- to
six-page section will
feature technical articles, homebrew experiments and other content that
should scratch the itch
for high-tech homebrewing info for all of us.  This first issue includes
data from an experiment
on judge palate calibration and an investigation of mash temperature
consistency in a RIMS
system.

While I'm at it, I'll mention that I am actively looking for content for
this new "Geeks Only"
section.  If you have an idea or something that is in the works, give me a
yell at ray at aob.org.

That's about it for now.  Thanks for the bandwidth.

Ray Daniels
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Phone: 773-665-1300
Fax: 773-665-0699
E-mail:  ray at aob.org



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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:53:36 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: re: "Mom, Tony's saying bad things", double milling and covered boils

Tony Clifton displays his homophobic side with this response to the good
Doctor:

> Doc man, I think
> you-WEENIEWANKER!WEENIEWANKER!WEENIEWANKER!-may be on to
> something really, really big- ANYCOCKLEDOO!ANYCOCKLEDOO!ANYCOCKLEDOO!

At the risk of being considered a weenie-wanker, (and let's face it, Tony,
we're ALL weenie-wankers, just that many of us choose to be faithful to
one), I think this is crossing the line between funny and offensive. I
haven't quite decided if this is a persona you adopt for the group, or if it
exemplifies your true personality. If the latter, well, I'm reminded of a
line from a movie where one character says to another, "You must get punched
a lot".

In one of those interesting coincidences, this appears from Alan McKay in
the same issue:

> I find it quite absurd that so many people seem worried about dirty
> pictures being sent around should the HBD allow images.  By your own
> arguments we should now be inundated by dirty jokes in text form,
> but I have not seen a-one.

Well, technically Tony's posting wasn't a joke, just some potty-mouthed
rantings. However, some time when it's a little quieter in here, I will
share a beer joke with the group. I got told it by a fellow judge as we were
about to start tasting entries at a competition, and I swear, I was laughing
so hard I had trouble swirling without choking. (Ooops, I'll bet TC will
turn that into something smutty).

Anyways, back to some real beer stuff, Dave Burley writes:

> I believe I am first HBDer to introduce this concept of
> double milling some
> years ago, but, if not, I am a strong proponent. This method
> allows you to
> emulate a four roll mill used in many professsional
> breweries.

This reminds me of Jack's claim that the non-parallel adjustability of his
MaltMill will produce a comparable crush to a 6 roller mill. It seems to me
that a key part of these mills is the screens which prevent the husks from
being put through the finer grind(s). With double milling, everything goes
through. Does this not degrade the lautering function of the husks?

> But if I were you, I would start with the same amount ( to
> keep everything
> the same or as close as possible) and insulate the top of the
> kettle with
> some dry towels
>  ( about an inch thick)  as I do sometimes. This will
> increase the rate of
> evaporation from the kettle as the lid represent a major heat loss by
> returning condensed steam to the kettle. You could also apply
> more heat in
> your case to increase the boil rate and get the same water
> loss with time.

Now this seems in direct contradiction to the Fix advice to keep the
evaporative loss to 12% (IIRC). There was also a suggestion that by using a
lid, the wort would benefit from being able to be kept at a rolling boil
with less heat applied.  Your approach seems to ignore the aspects of heat
application and evaporation reduction, in favour of a simple "steam blanket"
hypothesis which is supposed to minimize hot wort interactions with oxygen.
In the interest of trying to sort out these seemingly conflicting ideas, can
someone describe the mechanics of a professional brew kettle? How is the
heat applied and where, the amount of heat introduced into the wort, how the
steam is vented off, things to prevent condensate from returning to the
wort, that sort of stuff. You've got to think that these things are designed
to produce a better product than the simple pot on a burner that most of us
use.

Cheers,
Brian's



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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:12:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: kevin m mueller <kmmuellr at engin.umd.umich.edu>
Subject: milling grain

Definately giving myself something to worry about that I probably
shouldn't, but I'm curious, so here it is...

Is it possible to mill the grain to fast?  If I'm using my drill to run
the rollers, I can REALLY get that thing humming.  Is that doing anything
to the grain that is detrimental?  I do run the grain through twice
(course and fine).

Thanks again!

Kevin 
Redford, MI

                 



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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:21:57 -0400
From: "Schultz, Steven W SBCCOM" <steven.schultz at SBCCOM.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: RE:  Demise of the HBD

I must respectfully differ with Fred Wills a/k/a "MaltHound" who has
unsubscribed himself, disappointed in the direction that the HBD has taken
over the past several months.   I too have read the HBD for several years,
but from where I sit, the digest is somewhat self-regulating, and in time it
will take another direction.  Not to worry. 

In the meantime, I LIKE reading about these "alternative lifestyles" in
Australia (and elsewhere).  I even learned a few new words and phrases,
e.g., "SWMBO" and "wanker."    RDWHAHB.... 

Steve 
    


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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:06:11 -0400
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at lewisdevelopment.com>
Subject: Refractometer


I am the lucky recipient of a refractometer. (Gotta love birthdays --
guilt-free acquisition of expensive brewing toys.) So in playing with it,
I tested a sugar solution it figured out how to read it, etc.
Then I tested a sample of fully fermented beer and was surprised at the
reading. My stout read around 5 degP and the helles was 6 degP. (or around
1020 and 1024 SG respectively.) With the hydrometer, they read 1010 (2.5 P)
and 1012 (3 P). (OG's were 1041 and 1050, for those who are interested in
calculating RE, AE and AA)

What I am guessing is that the refractometer is displaying real extract for
the fully fermented beer, as opposed to apparent extract (due to the lower
SG of alcohol). I haven't done a volumetric analysis to confirm that the
reading is correct (i.e. boil the sample to eliminate the alcohol, then top
up with distilled water to original volume) because I hate to waste good
beer.

Does anyone know if the refractometer reading of a fermented beverage is
showing the true real extract (or residual sugar)? I really wanted the
refractometer for measuring sweet wort on the way to the kettle and at
various points during the boil, and for this, it is ideal.



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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:06:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Kowalczyk <mike at Pluto.teamon.com>
Subject: Brewery automation

I've been using a 3 tier system that I built out of kegs for the last 1.5 
years.  I'm looking to free up a couple of hours at the start of brewing.   
This way I can come home, start up the brewery, change out of my work 
clothes, play with the kids, and have dinner. By the time they go to sleep, 
I'm ready to boil, clean carboys, clean the rest of the brewery, pitch.  
Its not meant to save time, just frees me up more.

I already grind my grains and set up the brewery the night before, so if I 
were to automate the heat to strike, mash, and heat sparge water.  There 
would be very few touch points for the first few hours.

I don't know much about the components to this type of automation, so if 
anyone can help me on the following points, I would appreciate it.

1. How can I turn on a switch to the mashmixer.  Pretty simple question, I 
think.  Is it called a relay?  I think so.  From the people who have 
already automated your brewery what relay(s) do you use and where did you 
get them?

2. I do not want a RIMS.  I want to keep the existing propane setup.  I 
looked in Grainger for a gas valve solenoid and think I've found one that I 
can use.  Has anyone used a gas valve solenoid?  If so which one and how 
did you wire it?  Do you need another relay to flip the solenoid switch?  I 
was thinking of using a small pilot light, so I don't have to worry about 
igniting and turning on the gas.  If anyone has any better suggestions on 
this part of the automation, I'd love to hear about it.


I plan on scrounging and finding an old IBM AT or such and one of those 
cards that plug into it for controlling switches and stuff.  I think it's 
called an A/D controller. I'm pretty good at programming, so I thought I'd 
write a basic program that reads the different inputs and turns on switches 
or gas.  For safety I plan on reading the temperature of the HLT or mash 
and if it doesn't rise in 30 seconds or so shut the gas down and sound an 
alarm.  My inputs and outputs would be:

Input: HLT temperature
Input: Mash Temperature
Output: Mashmixer relay(?)
Output: HLT Gas Solenoid Relay(?)
Output: Mash Tun Gas Solenoid Relay(?)


Algorithm

Heat Mash Tun to Strike temp ----> 20 min
Beep to alert brewer waits for brewer to press enter
Brewer pours grains in and mixes ---> 2 minutes
Brewer presses enter to start automation
system rests for strike rest -----> 15 min
30 seconds before time is up turn on mashmixer
Turn on mash tun gas solenoid relay
Heat until sac rest temp ----> approx. 15 min
wait for sacc rest time maintaining temp -----> 60 min
Turn on HLT gas solenoid relay 50 min before end.
30 seconds before time is up turn on mashmixer
Turn on mash tun gas solenoid relay
Heat until mash out temp is reached ----> approx. 20 min
alert brewer that it is time to sparge.
done.
 
any thoughts?

 - Mike from New Lenox, Il.  

___________________________________________________
http://www.TeamOn.com Your company's online office.


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Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:28:20 +1000
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Ozzie Beer News

G'Day all,

For anyone interested in the ozzie/New Zealand micro brewery scene, the
Real Beer Page has opened an outpost down under.  It has a web page at
http://www.realbeer.co.nz  Lots of good info and articles on Malt Shovel,
St Peters etc.

There is also a regular eNews letter called SPARGING, which is available
online at www.sparging.co.nz

I am of course a major shareholder in this multi-million dollar operation
so I would insist that you all subscribe .... 

or I just though that you may be interested.

Cheers
David Lamotte
Reading about beers that we cant get in
Newcastle N.S.W. Australia
Where if I stand on tippy toes I can almost see the olympics.




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