---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Consistent Infections (Demonick)
  Re: hop plug production (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Sanitation (Jay Pfaffman)
  Rocky Mountain Highs (Bob Hall)
  Hop plugs (ALABREW)
  Cranberry pLambic ("Eric R. Theiner")
  HBD Sponsorship ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Obsessed and anal in sanitation land (Frank Tutzauer)
  Sanitation OH MY (happydog)
  Brew kettles on Ebay ("Steve")
  The dilemma of the DSL debacle... (Some Guy)
  Fermentation fridges , TSP & Pumps ("Sebastian Padilla")
  Automation (The Holders)
  Brew Room, Boilers, Crystal malt, SWMBO ("Graham Sanders")
  Boddingtons (Brad McMahon)
  Plastic in Homebrewing ("D. Schultz")
  Re: 1st wort hopping & mash hopping (Jeff Renner)
  Re: mead fermentation ("J. Morgan")
  Mash and FWH (Roger Whyman)
  What do these mean??? ("Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard")
  Please take a moment to raise your glass... (Harlan Bauer)
  Snafu's (Randy Ricchi)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 07:53:57 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Consistent Infections

From: richards at cs.vassar.edu (Brad Richards)
>
>I've brewed four batches over the past few weeks, and all have had
>DMS contamination that I attribute to infections.  I'm at my wits
>
> ...snip sanitation details ...
>
>I use an immersion chiller that's mounted through the lid on my
>brewkettle.  The kettle remains closed from the time the chiller
>goes in (10 minutes before the end of the boil) until the chilled
>wort's in the primary.

Are you certain that your DMS (dimethyl sulfide, cooked corn aroma) is
due to infection?

I see a couple of possible causes.  One is indeed infection.  10 minutes is
not enough time to boil the immersion chiller for sanitation.  Boil it 30
minutes, and the kettle need not be covered during this time.  Other than
that your sanitation seems good. 

The other potential source of DMS is the immersion chilling process.  I
remember when I was using an immersion chiller that in the summer my
cooling times were much longer than in the winter.  Here in Seattle the
summer municipal water temperature climbs into the 60s F whereas in the
winter I bet it drops into the low 50s or less.  DMS is created during the
boil from DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) and SMM (s-methyl methionine).  DMSO
and SMM occur in malt, particularly short kilned malts like pils.  DMS is
produced as long as the wort is hot.  During an uncovered boil it is driven
off, but once the kettle is lidded for cooling DMS is still produced but it
remains in the wort.  I do not remember the "magic temperature" below which
DMS production slows to a non-factor.

If your chilling time is much over 30 minutes, I'd try to do something
to speed the process, increase the flow rate or pass your cooling water
through an ice bath on the way to the chiller.  You can create a mini
chiller from copper coils that sit in the bottom of a bucket of ice
water, and tap water goes through the mini-chiller on its wasy to the
immersion chiller. 

So try boiling your chiller for at least 30 minutes, and pre-chill your
chiller water, and let the HBD know if it solves your problem.

One final word, different people detect different compounds at different
levels.  I myself have a very high tolerance for diacetyl.  You may be
very sensitive to DMS.  I'm not saying to ignore the problem, after all,
your are brewing for yourself, but it would be interesting to have a few
others try your brews and see if their perceptions differ from yours. 

Cheers!

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com

FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or 
email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't 
call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:07:49 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: hop plug production

Ken Wagner of Columbus, OH <kjwagner at att.net> writes:

>I heard a rumor that one of the major hop plug producers
>went out of business and that, as a result, there will
>be a shortage of plugs from this year's crop.
>
>Does anybody know if there is any truth to this?

I can offer this information.  In February or March of 1999, we were 
visiting friends in U.K. and were driving along a country lane amidst 
the hops fields in Kent when we came upon Morris Hanbury's hop 
processing plant.  We drove in right behind a sedan full of suits. 
About five of them with brief cases walked into a low, office looking 
building.  We got out and looked around the yard, noticing it was 
awfully quiet for a weekday, even during the off season.  Finally one 
of the suits came out and asked if she could help us.  I told her I 
was a visiting American homebrewer and was interested in hops.  She 
said that she was sorry, but that the company had just gone into 
receivership.  I don't know what has happened in the eighteen months 
since.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:38:27 -0500
From: Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman at relaxpc.com>
Subject: Re: Sanitation

On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:09:06 -0700 (PDT), D H <uqob at yahoo.com> said:

> I know people often get sick of this subject but I'm
> obsessed so bear with me.

I'll say you're obsessed!

> 1.I'm curious as to if throw-off and bottling hoses
> can be sanitized.
> Does soaking them in b-brite and then boiling them in
> 475F water make them sterile before or after use?

Gosh, I'd think so.  I sanitize (not sterilize) them with clorox
solution or one-step (my new favorite sanitizer).

> 2. When wracking and using a bottling wand what does
> one do between bottles? 

I relax and occasionally take a sip of beer.

> Theoretically, once the wand is covered with beer, each time you
> remove it and place it in another bottle, each subsequent bottle
> filled is exposed to greater and greater infection.  Is there a
> solution I can rest the wand in, while in between bottles? Or do
> people think the wand exposure is minimal?

You're not going to get contamination from the beer.  The chances of
picking up an airborne contaminant are very small & your beer's got
plenty of alcohol already.

> 3. I soak my beer bottles in B-brite, use very hot
> water to rinse them (using a bottle washer) and then
> bake them dry at 475F for 20 minutes.

I soak my bottles in clorox solution or one-step, drain them, and wrap
them in foil.  I rinse them briefly before bottling.  If I were
slightly more paranoid, I'd probably use one-step and use them
immediately after sanitizing.

> While still hot, I place foil over the tops until I am
> ready to bottle.
>         a) How long does one think a bottle will stay
> sterile, with just a foil seal?
>         b) For long term storage , should I cap the
> bottles?
>         c) In the case of swing tops, do people
> typically soak in a sanitizing solution the upper
> metal and plastic tops or do you boil them?

Relax.

> I'm just trying to get the cleanest beer possible and am royally
> annoyed to see that "ring" around the neck of the bottle.  It drives
> me nuts.  I sanitize everything in b-brite, boil all utensils I use,
> keep my wort very clean through limited contact and STILL I get that
> ring.

Does your beer taste bad?  If not, you've not got an infection.  My
guess is that you're priming with DME rather than corn sugar & the
proteins (right?) are what make that little ring.  If it bothers you,
either close your eyes or use corn sugar for priming.

- -- 
Jay Pfaffman                           pfaffman at relaxpc.com
+1-615-343-1720 (office)               +1-615-460-9299 (home) 
http://relax.ltc.vanderbilt.edu/~pfaffman/


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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:53:53 -0700
From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org>
Subject: Rocky Mountain Highs

Will be in Denver the last week of October for a conference and would
appreciate suggestions for "Don't Miss" beer/brewing experiences. Will
be downtown at the Adam's Mark .... no car.

Thanks in advance,
Bob



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:57:12 -0500
From: ALABREW <alabrew at mindspring.com>
Subject: Hop plugs

Ken Wagner asks:

I heard a rumor that one of the major hop plug producers 
went out of business and that, as a result, there will 
be a shortage of plugs from this year's crop.

Does anybody know if there is any truth to this?

Morris Hanbury, the largest producer of hop plugs, did go out of
business. Also, the domestic suppliers - Haas and Hopunion - have
decided not to invest in the equipment needed to produce plugs, citing
too small a market. Some plug varieties may no longer be available.

Kim
- -- 
Kim and Sun Ae Thomson
ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies
8916A Parkway East
Birmingham, AL
(205) 833-1716
http://www.mindspring.com/~alabrew
mailto:alabrew at mindspring.com




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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:12:09 -0400
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Cranberry pLambic

I am proud to say that my Cranberry pLambic just won 2nd place in the
"other" beer category in MALT's competition (Asheville, NC).  So I'll
take a stab at answering the posted question by throwing in what I did.

I brewed a pretty basic pLambic recipe (don't have the record here) and
followed the boil with 4# of previously frozen then crushed
cranberries.  I let the whole thing set for 15 minutes or so to
pPastuerize the cranberries, then cranked up the chiller.  After it was
cool, I poured the whole mess into a fermenter and pitched Wyeast 1056.
After a week or so, I pitched in Wyeast's Lambic Blend (sorry, Jim,
didn't have access to anything else).  I racked about a month later and
added another 4# of cranberries  along with the water needed to
pastuerize them.  I then left it there for 6 months.

I tried some at that point and was a little disappointed in how
2-dimensional the flavor was, so I blended in 2 gallons of another
pLambic prior to bottling.  How did I make that one?  Standard method,
straight pLambic, but I threw in a handful of DWC Pilsner malt to
innoculate the cool wort with bacteria.  MUCH better, I think, and I
think that the blending improved the cranberry pLambic.

So work that one backward for volumes, etc., and use a handful of malt
(Belgian malt, that is) instead of Wyeast's blend and you may get
something along the lines of what I did.

And it's a good brew, too.

Rick Theiner



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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:16:37 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: HBD Sponsorship

Eric Schoville makes a valid point about the $2400 per year cost for DSL being
expensive and asks if any of us can come up with a new home for the HBD. This
would be great, if it would work for Pat & Karl. However, nobody seems to be
coming forward with a free host as of yet.

So we'll probably need to pony up - I know it's worth it to me. Though we all
have lots of places to spend money, I'm sure we can come up with enough to
keep the HBD going if it's necessary. That brings us to the question of what
kind of time frame/pressure are we under? How quickly do we need the money,
Pat?


Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL






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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:24:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Obsessed and anal in sanitation land

A couple of big-time sanitizing homebrewers last Digest.  By their own
admission, uqob is "obsessed" with sanitation and Brad Richards is "the
most anal" about it.  Heck, I thought Brad's post was a troll until I got
to the serious question at the end.  I've got a couple of questions myself
before I comment on their problems.

First my questions:  I've been using Star San, but just bought a bottle of
iodophor for the hell of it.  This will be the first time I've ever used
it and I just want y'all to check me.  Yeah, yeah, I know I'm years behind
the curve here.  The bottle says 1 oz in 10 gallons gives 12.5ppm.  I'm
assuming that these are US fluid ounces, not weight or some other damn
funny measure.  Am I right?  If so, and if I just want to make up around a
gallon of solution, that works out to a half-teaspoon in just under a
gallon of water (3 quarts, 10 ounces, IIRC).  Geez that doesn't seem like
much.  Am I on target?  (All measures US, and don't you metric wankers give
me any grief about it!)

As for Brad's DMS, I always heard that it came from not letting certain
nasty's escape in the boil.  Do you boil covered?  FWIW, on a scoresheet, a
BJCP judge said he detected very faint DMS in one of my beers and suggested
that I watch my lag times.  I didn't know lag times had anything to do with
it.  And my lag times are always in the 6-14 hour range (no active
fermentation when I go to bed, but going like gangbusters when I wake up in
the morning).

And . . .

>From: D H <uqob at yahoo.com>
>I know people often get sick of this subject but I'mobsessed so bear with
>me.
>1.I'm curious as to if throw-off and bottling hoses can be sanitized.
>Does soaking them in b-brite and then boiling them in
>475F water make them sterile before or after use?

I think B-Brite and boiling is overkill, but it would work.  What are your
hoses made of that you can boil them?  I just give a brief soak in Star San
or a half-hour soak in a dilute bleach solution.

>2. When wracking and using a bottling wand what does
>one do between bottles?

I have a sanitized bottle, half filled with water, that I use as a "wand
holder" between fills.  Just plunk the wand in the bottle.  I have to half
fill it with water so that it won't tip over from the leverage/weight of
the wand and associated hosing.

>While still hot, I place foil over the tops until I amready to bottle.
>        a) How long does one think a bottle will stay
>sterile, with just a foil seal?

If you sanitize immediately before your bottling session, I do not believe
you need the foil caps.

>        b) For long term storage , should I cap thebottles?

Not necessary if you sanitize immediately before bottling.

>        c) In the case of swing tops, do people
>typically soak in a sanitizing solution the upper
>metal and plastic tops or do you boil them?

I soak in sanitizer.

>I'm just trying to get the cleanest beer possible and
>am royally annoyed to see that "ring" around the neck
>of the bottle.  It drives me nuts.  I sanitize
>everything in b-brite, boil all utensils I use, keep
>my wort very clean through limited contact and STILL Iget that ring.

FWIW people say B-brite is just a cleanser, not a sanitizer, and it seems
to me that someone as "obsessed" as you would have switched to bleach, Star
San, or iodophor.  That being said, before the stainless-friendly
sanitizers became available, I used B-brite for years and never had a
problem.  I keep a tub in my brew box just on the off chance that I don't
have any other sanitizer (like if I knock over the bottle or something).

I doubt the rings are from lack of sanitation because you are definitely
leaning the other way.  I'm no expert on rings because I have never had
them, but I have heard that they can be from infection (doubtful in your
case), wort composition (proteins or somesuch), yeast, or oversanitizing
with bleach.

Good luck!

 --frank



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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:30:15 GMT
From: happydog at nations.net
Subject: Sanitation OH MY

D H and Brad Richards post about sanitation and I have to say
OH MY!
Please take this is the light it is posted.;-)

I have been brewing beer for over 16 years and I have NEVER done any
of these things. And I can't remember an infected batch. I'm not
saying I haven't made bad beer, I have, but it was not sanitation
problems.

*wipe down the counters with Iodophor solution. (why? does your beer
come in contact with this surface? Remember, bugs don't poll vault
into your beer, you have to put them there)
*wear disposable latex gloves (sanitized) and a dust mask. (again,
why, Just don't breath on/in things and don't touch things that touch
your beer. eg the handle of a spoon will not touch your beer when you
use it nor will the curved part of a racking cane)  
*boiling them in 475F water (475F <<<<< how do you do this?? Why do
you do this? Danger Will Robinson!!!)
*bake them dry at 475F for 20 minutes.(overkill)
*boil all utensils (overkill)
*I boil my caps and leave them soaking in 151 proof vodka as I cap.
(boiling caps warp the plastic liner and MAY leave you with flat beer.
Vodka is best used in OJ) 
*boil the starter vessel, fermentation lock (glass),
and stopper for 30 minutes before making a starter (to much work)
*I rinse carboys with (cheap) bottled beer after soaking the beer
bottle in Iodophor and flaming its mouth (why?, overkill and to much
work, Waste of money buying bad beer)

How can you guys do this and still have fun making beer especially
when it still comes out bad. We are not doing a cardiac cath here, we
are making beer! Every one of above is overkill. Remember over doing
things can be just as bad as not doing things. Sounds to me you are
way over handling things. I think that with each of the sanitizing
step stated above you have to handle things more that once. 
eg" boil all utensils" Sounds great but are you using something to
remove it from the boiling water and then setting in down on something
to cool. Perhaps you drop it into a bucket of cold water to cool and
then you pick it up to use it. That's in and out of your hand 2 to 3
times. Why not just remove the utensil from a bucket of one step, use
it and put it back in the same bucket. In your hand ONE time. Less
risk and easy and best of all it works.

I use bleach, One step and Iodophor each where they work best and
people need to learn to  use and trust these sanitizer.

Bleach is great on buckets, carboys and all other plastic, easily
rinsed things. Use it 1/4 to 1/2 cup per 5 - 6 gals. let is soak 20
mins and rinse with clean tap water until the bleach smell is gone. A
jet carboy washer is best at this task. Siphon bleach water from one
container to another will sanitize the racking cane and hose inside
and out. Rinse the same way. Scratches in buckets, BS, I have used the
same buckets (4) for years(2)...no problems at all and I sanitize the
lid by pushing it sideways into the bucket and then filling with
bleach water (gasp!)

Iodophor is great for cleaning kegs. It kills on contact and if used
correctly is no rinse, however I still rinse with clean tap water and
a jet carboy washer. Iodophor can all so be used for general
sanitizing but I don't like the way it stains things. (just me, others
use it on everything)

One step is the best for bottles and caps. Mix as stated on the
package in warm clean tap water and soak. Its no rinse and I trust it.
I have rinsed and not rinsed and it works great! No off flavor or dead
beer. Get a small bowl and put your caps in it with one step. Remove
one cap at a time and  place right on bottle and cap. It works great.

Now I was an CCRN and have worked MANY a sterile field but that does't
mean the bugs respect me any more than someone else. Just use your
head. If its to much work and there has to be a better way then there
is! If you feel you have a resistant bug than rotate bleach, One step
and Iodophor in your cleaning routine and make SURE you have no chunks
of hops, yeast, spooge stuck to a wall of a bucket or tube someplace.
That is where bugs party on your beer.
Sorry, I went a little long.


Wil Kolb
Happy Dog Brewing Supplies
401 W.Coleman Blvd
Mt Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084
1-800-528-9391
happydog at nations.net
www.maltydog.com


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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:44:47 -0400
From: "Steve" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: Brew kettles on Ebay

Just saw this on Ebay and thought I'd pass it on. Mash tun and brew
kettle from Stainless in Seattle. Current bid is $152.50 (Friday
afternoon)

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=4
43397649



Steve Jones
State of Franklin Homebrewers
Johnson City, TN
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew





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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:24:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: The dilemma of the DSL debacle...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Lots of talk about what DSL should cost the Digest. 

Folks, your Janitors are not rubes. We have researched this option. There
are two basic forms of DSL available to us: asymmetric DSL (ADSL) and
symmetric DSL (SDSL). THere are other acronyms for specific DSL
technologies under either case, but these are the basic types.

ADSL is usually configured to download at blinding speeds, but upload at
slower rates. There is no guarantee of service levels on ADSL. You might
upload at 384kbps, but, then again, you may upload at 14.4kbps. Depends on
the load on the shared line. These lines generally come with one
DHCP-served (not static) IP address, a few email accounts, and server
space for web pages. They can be used to host servers, but generally not
with a registered domain name (depends on the ISP). These lines are cheap
 - between $49 and $89, depending on the speed combination. Note that this
describes the general case - some ISPs off static IPs, domain name
registration et al, but none guarantee the service level on the line for
most residential ADSL lines.

SDSL is configured to upload and download at the same speeds, and the
speed you buy is guaranteed to be the mininum 98% of the time - the line
might be a lot faster; however, it will not be slower. Most come with
between 10 and 32 static IP addresses, several email accounts and drive
space for web pages. They easily accomodate hosting servers, and domain
names are not a problem since the IP addresses are static. The are
typically used to host small networks as opposed to single users. These
lines are more costly - you're paying for the guaranteed service - $89 to
$500 per month, depending on the speed. In our region, 384kbps is between
$109 and $200, depending on the level of service and the ISP selected. We
are negotiating with two of the more reliable (per users references) ISPs
in the area - a guarantee is only as good as the company backing it.

In terms of the HBD's operations, the upload time is what is of importance
with the HBD mailing. We prefer that the time of that mailing be managed
to deliver the HBD during the wee hours for most of the subscription list
 - you get your HBD in time for coffee, the web users get better response
time since the server is not being consumed by the mail routines. Through
mathematical wizardry, we calculate a 384kbps to meet these requirements.
This does mean that the web pages load a little slower than they did
hanging off of O&E's network, but they should be "servicable" to the
users.

Also, the HBD now consists of four servers. One gives us emergency control
(to a point) of the server's power. Another does nothing but back up the
entire HBD server to both hard drive and DAT on an hourly basis (See Alan,
we _DO_ learn from the past...). The backup machine is currently
maintained in my home on a cable modem - an expense alleviated by the DSL
line. The third is a redundant box that is intended (once we get some bugs
worked out) to have "flip over" capability should the main HBD server fail
 - multiple static IPs are required to host the HBD in this configuration.

Finally, it would be best that the HBD addresses not change to something
unrelated to the HBD. The domain name will be transferred to the new
arrangement.

Remote hosting is still being investigated as a possibility, though, the
furhter we go from either of the janitors' homes, the more likely we'll
require the services of another to service the physical box. More
complications, but not insurmountable.

Understand that there will be no pervasive ads within the HBD itself. The
main sponsor for the year will be acknowledged in the header similar to
the manner in which O&E Online is now. The banner ad that used to be at
the top of the HBD home page will return, and a new "HBD Sponsors page"
will be created to display acknowledgement for the other sponsors.

These unobrusive ads will be small price for the ensured continuance of
our forum, in my opinion.

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday





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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:49:20 GMT
From: "Sebastian Padilla" <sebastianpadilla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Fermentation fridges , TSP & Pumps

I have a couple questions I was hoping I could get some help with.  First 
off I recently got a free fridge to use as a fermentation chamber.
I have one of the johnson controllers hooked up to it and it is working nice 
and accurately as far as I can tell.  My question is, for primary 
fermentation what is the collectives general experience on what temperature 
to set the controller at to get a given primary fermentation temperature.  
Oh yeah, I am fermenting 5.2 gallons of in a 6.8 gallon carboy.  For example 
if I want my fermenting wort to be at 68* F what temperature should the air 
in the fridge be at.  The reason I ask, is because I have noticed that 
Primary fermentation tends to generate quite a bit of heat.

Question 2.  I live in Tucson, AZ where it tends to be quite hot, The city 
water runs well above 80* F in the summer and I have been trying to find an 
effective way to chill my wort using a copper immersion type chiller.  I 
currently pre chill my water in the later stages of the chill using another 
immersion chiller and an Ice bath and this only gets me down to about 80*F 
in the summer.

In an effort to save water in this here desert I was thinking of 
recirculating the water over a block of ice using a pump.  I recently picked 
up a used pump for a swamp cooler (aka evaporative cooler), and I was 
wondering if this thing was powerful enough to get an effective flow rate of 
cold water through the chiller.  The pump will take a little bit of work 
(only about 5-10$) to get up and running.  And because I am cheap I would 
like to know if it is going to be effective.

The specs as they read off the pump are 120 volt, .8 amps, 44 watts,
1-phase, 60 hz.  It appears to be made by AdobeAir, Inc with a model # of 
EP200.  I am not sure how helpful any of this info is but I would appreciate 
any help I could get.

Last question.  I just got a bunch of TSP and was wondering if it is ok to 
clean stainless steel cornies with it.

Private emails or ok.

Thanks in advance

Sebastian Padilla
Tucson, AZ
_________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:02:58 -0700
From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com>
Subject: Automation

Automatic brewing is cool. Reliability is cool. Safety is cool.

Ray pretty much hit it on the head talking about safety with automatic
burners, and there are no GFIs to "slap" on to make up for safe design.

You may, however, consider using a safety/control valve off of a natural
gas furnace. You could even get one with automatic ignition, and it has
built in safety (if installed correctly). I don't know about it being
rated for LPG, if that is what is intended, so do your homework.

PID controllers are expensive new, but there are many available as
surplus. Check on Ebay alone any given day and you will find at least a
couple at way below the list price. I have two brand new in the boxes
that make nice bookends right now, but at $45 each the price was too
good to pass up.

PLCs are cheap too, maybe even as cheap as PC I/O cards. Try
www.automationdirect.com as a start. They have PLCs for as little as
$99, and a quick trip to www.plcs.net will give you a start on
implementation. Ebay is another excellent source for surplus PLCs.

That's my $.02

Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach CA
http://www.zymico.com


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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:22:53 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Brew Room, Boilers, Crystal malt, SWMBO

G'day All

Well just caught up on all my HBD's.  This brew room of mine is taking up a
bit of my time. (truth is I'm also building a pergola to replace the last
one lost in a cylone last year.)  I was reflecting on all the work I have
done to date.  Not much to look at really.  Slab on ground, metal posts
cemented in all over the place.  It doesn't reflect the work I have put in
to date (there's no way this is going to blow away, unless we get another
cat5 cyclone).  Anyway, its sort of like brewing in a way, all that
groundwork will determine the final product, and how well it will perform.

This talk about boilers, lid on or off, design, condensation, well to me
dear Dave Lamotte (a Southerner of all people) to me covered it all nicely.
Its like most things in life, everything in moderation.  The problem I see a
lot of people have is this desire to have a biggest burner available, then
trying to addapt it.  Once they have a ragging bushfire under their pot,
they need the lid off to stop it foaming up and over.  Moderation mates,

Whats my set up. Well I run on LPG.  I have a sankey keg (i think thats what
you call it) - thats the tall skinny one that holds 50 litres.  I inverted
the bottom, (belted the living shit out of the bottom, angle-ground the
skirt off to allow air to get underneath.  Now this sits on an ordinary low
pressure 3 ring camping burner.  At full boil I only use the outer and
middle rings.  Now the important bit, my opening at the top is only 120mm in
diameter. (small.) I also get that magical 10% /hour evaporation.

Moderation - Low heat input, good rolling boil, low area of expossure to O2,
nice evaporation. What else does a craftbrewer want.

Now who said what

>>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
I've gotten to the point where there are a
few people that I will always read what they post
because it's entertaining and I sometimes learn
something. (Yes, Graham, you're one of them. Something
tells me I should boost your ego)<<<<

Now watch it mate, the last thing a North Queenslander needs is his ego
inflated.  We already live in God's own land, and are better than the rest
of you (in our eyes anyway).  But yes nice suck job anyway squire.

Now Curt's on my short list for a passport

>>>>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:53:40 -0500
>>>From: "Curt Abert" <abert at jokulhlaup.isgs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: home roasting / aussies and humor

In the american broadcast, Ned was
played up to be a hero, very much like our own Jesse James.
However, after it was over, I was sorely disappointed to see that
another famous Aussie was left out.   What about Yahoo Serious????

Oh yeah, I would encourage everyone to brew a CAP soon.  Something
has to be done with all of the corn we grow, and it might as well be
in a home(craft)brew<<<<

Another convert to my cause of calling ourselves CRAFTBREWERS.  And yes your
right about Mr Kelly. Ned was a famous Bushranger, namely for his body
amour.  And like Mr James, he was built up to be a hero.  But make no bones
about it, he was a bushranger thru and thru.  Aus bushrangers by the way
didn't bother robbing a bank and trying to get out of town in a hurry.  No,
many, Ned Included, held up the whole town, for days at a time. None of this
business of hit and run, it was hit and stay a while. Stops a possie being
formed for one thing. And they did it in style.  None of this "Stick 'em up"
Nope it was "Stand and deliver".

>>>Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:26:14 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: crystal malt at home?

Graham Sanders wrote about home roasting (#3433). I have a question (for him
or someone else).
I did a little experiment
My conclusions:
1. it is not possible mashing without crushing the malt.
2. it is not possible to make crystal malt from pilsener malt (at home).<<<<

I agree in general. Thats why I told people to start with two separate bases
for their homeroasting.  As for point 1 , well it is possible, but the
extraction is sooo low its not worth it and as for 2. I have made homemade
crystal at home, but its sooo dame difficult and time consuming that I dont
bother.

Shout

Graham Sanders

Oh,

By the way , those taking having a go at SWMBO.

>>>>From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: The 3-ring circus project

I think we can safely say that SWMB_ is the She Who Must Be - something.
Where the something is dependent upon upon the particular "she" in question
+ her mood.  Thusly, we have  O - Obeyed, BF - Brewed For, T - Tolerated, S
 - Supplicated, A - Avoided... you get my drift.
- ------------------------------
Make this a ritual with either your SWMBFWB (She Who Must Be Filled With
Beer for the acronymically-challenged) (sorry again Graham)
ears of Wedded or Imbibing bliss!

From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell at uswest.net>
Subject: RE: The 3-ring circus project

In re a post in # 3434 earlier:

>Thusly, we have O - Obeyed, BF - Brewed For, T - Tolerated, S -
Supplicated, A - Avoided... you get my drift.
How about SWMBBO:  She who must be Bought Off?<<<<<<<

You lot are playing with fire here.  The real SWMBO is itching to have a go
at you lot.  If she finds out you have been having a go at her acronym, well
I might just let her.  On the other hand, I do like Glens Idea. SWMB_.
Thanks mate I have now have an infinite number of new ways of pissing her
off.



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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:32:02 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Boddingtons

Greg Remake wrote:

>My wife really enjoys Boddingtons Pub Ale, and I'd earn many beer bullets
>if I could brew something similar.  Surprisingly, a search of the archives
>turned up only one recipe.  It suggested an OG of 1.035 using 96.5% pale
>malt, 0.5% black malt, and 3% sugar, with 30 IBUs from a mix of many hops
>at 60 and 15 minutes.  I'd prefer a few more data points.  To my tastes,
>Boddingtons is somewhat heavier and less bitter than the referenced recipe
>would suggest, and I'd expect to see a bit of crystal in the grist.  There
>seems to be very little hops flavor or aroma, so limited late additions
>appear appropriate.

Time to turn to (who I consider to be) the clone masters,
Wheeler & Protz. According to the latest edition of 
_Brew Your Own British Real Ale_, Boddingtons Bitter
is OG 1035, 7 SRM, 3.7% abv & 37 EBU.
The recipe Wheeler gives is 92% pale malt, 5% crystal, 3% sugar.
Hops are Whitbread Goldings for the boil and a 2:1 ratio of Kent
Goldings
to Fuggles in the finish - for US 5 Gal 0.3oz Kent Goldings 0.15
Fuggles.

The reason why the beer tastes less bitter and has little hop aroma is 
probably largely because it is served via nitrogen dispense rather than
by a gravity hand pump.

Here's to beers,

Brad
Aldgate, Sth Australia


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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:31:48 -0700
From: "D. Schultz" <d2schultz at uswest.net>
Subject: Plastic in Homebrewing

There have been some recent posts on what types of plastics make up various
homebrewing items:

Plastic carboys are typically polycarbonate (PC).

Buckets are typically polyethene (I believe low density - LDPE).

Clear flex tubing is typically PVC or vinyl.

Clear rigid tubing is typcally acrylic (PMMA). If you hit it with a hammer
and it doesn't break, it's probably PC.

Soda bottles are polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETG).

Let me know if you want me to post O2 permeabilities.

Burp,
 -Dan



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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 12:11:05 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: 1st wort hopping & mash hopping

Financially independent Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman at relaxpc.com> wrote:

>OK, so what's the deal with 1st wort hopping and mash hopping?

Former HBDer (when he lived in UK and Australia, but not now that 
he's in Houston playing a rocket scientist with NASA) Dave Draper 
wrote a fine summary which has been archived at 
http://brewery.org/library/1stwort.html.

I really like FWHing for pilsners, especially classic American 
pilsner (CAP), and I've liked in in American pale ales as well.  It 
works well in any style that needs lotws of hop aroma and flavor.  Be 
sure to use high quality hops.

I haven't tired mash hopping, but it is similar except that you use 
the aroma hops in the mash.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:51:02 -0600
From: "J. Morgan" <jmorgan at surfree.com>
Subject: Re: mead fermentation

(Original message was about a slow mead fermentation.)

I seem to have the opposite problem.  Here's my recent message
to the mead-lover's digest (mead-request@ talisman.com), with
a couple of afterthoughts on your message.

j:Hi folks.  I'm an extract beer brewer, a novice with mead.
j:
j:I brewed my first batch, a melomel, last Sunday.
j:
j:3 gal. batch:
j:
j:8 lb. 12 oz. Madhava clover honey
j:6 lb.  tangelos, held at 170 F for 30 min.
j:4 oz. grated ginger steeped for 15 min. during cooldown.
j:Strained into 3 gal. carboy.
j:
j:Yeast was 5 grams dry Red Star champagne, started
j:8 hours prior to pitching in 12 oz. Kern's apple nectar.
j:
j:Pitched at about 88 F, as low as my immersion cooler
j:would bring the must.  Temp in basement is 72-74 F.
j:Added 1.5 tsp. urea and ammonium phosphate as nutrient.
j:
j:I left about 4-5" of headspace in the carboy, but the
j:fermentation is so active it's filled the airlock with foam
j:4 times in the last two days.

(Yellow, sticky foam, fun to clean up!)

j:I thought mead was a s-l-o-w fermenting beverage?
j:What can I do to avoid this bubblefest next time?
j:Lowering the temp in the basement isn't an option.
j:
j:Should I avoid using a starter culture, skip the
j:nutrient, or buy another huge carboy and leave half
j:of it as headspace?

(I decided to just use a blow-off hose for a week
in future batches.)

j:I guess I should count my blessings and be glad I'm
j:not dealing with a stuck fermentation...  :-)

k+slowed back down and stopped all together in almost 2 weeks. From the
k+research I did on the web (all very different opinions!) I decided to rack
k+and taste. What I had was a cloudy, sparkling, sweet and somewhat yeasty
k+mead. Not terrible or anything but not the "drink of the gods" I was
hoping

It's my understanding that most meads get better as they age,
some folks say 1 year minimum.

k+for. I've let it set now for a week and though the air lock has a bubble
in
k+it I have yet to see one come up & it is still cloudy. Is this normal
k+considering my recipe? Should I just be patient and let it sit ( a general

Mine is slowing down now.  Do you use the 3 piece airlock?
As long as the "hat" part that sits on the central spindle is
pushed up against the top plastic cap, fermentation is
still happening.  You may have to watch for a couple hours
to see a bubble, but it's still too early to bottle or keg.

k+theory on various sites) I've read some previous emails & it seems as
though
k+this sparkling will ferment away (if I let it). If that's the case I can
see

Yes, it will ferment to completion.  Either all suger will
ferment, a dry mead, or the alcohol level will kill the yeast
leaving enough sugar for a sweet mead.  Be VERY careful if
you bottle before fermentation is absolutely finished, as it may
pick up again (say if the basement temp goes up a little) and
can create glass grenades.  If you want to bottle a sparkling
mead, let it ferment fully and then research to find the
appropriate level of priming sugar for your batch.

k+why it's yeasty but if not then it seems an awfully quick fermentation
k+(something I had not expected from a mead).

Me too!  I've gathered that although the early fermentation
may be vigorous, it will tend to slow down and take a lot
longer because of the higher sugar content of the must.

k+anyone has any feedback I would REALLY appreciate it as my brew store is a
k+little lacking in knowledge of meads and the book I have doesn't really
k+cover this problem ( if it is even one).

The mead lover's digest is very cool.  Archives are at
www.talisman.com, in html, gz and zip formats.

Hope this helps.
- --
Jeff




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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 12:57:17 -0600
From: Roger Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: Mash and FWH

I recently tried mash hopping in a bitter along with FWH (which I've
done many times)  and was really disappointed with the results. How
about some thoughts from you mash hoppers.
Here's what I did:
15 gal batch
74% pale malt
14% caramunich
5% wheat
7% carapilsner
Total Wt.  21.5 lbs.
SG 1.046
FG 1.012
3 oz. EKG in mash
3 oz. Fuggles FWH
23 IBU's Southern Cross bittering at 60 min.

The bitterness was appropriate for the style, but the hop flavor and
aroma was very lacking for my taste. I also took this beer to 3
professional (brew pub) brewers. Before telling them what I did, they
all said "not much hop flavor or aroma."
What do I have to do, use a pound?

Roger Whyman
Englewood, CO



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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 16:22:42 -0400
From: "Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard" <taliesin2 at earthlink.net>
Subject: What do these mean???

Reading Brew Your Own Magazine I saw that they publish recipes sent in 
by readers. But under the names of recipes they got two other lines:

(5 gallons, extract with grain)
OG = 1.012 FG = 1.045  IBU = 25


So my main questions are:

1) What does OG mean? I'm assume the G stands for gravity, but am
unsure.

2) What does FG mean? I'm assume the G stands for gravity, but am
unsure.

And finally...

3) What does IBU mean? Haven't got a clue on this one folks! :-(
- --
Everything on this earth has a purpose, and every disease an herb to
cure it, and every person a mission. This is the Indian theory of
existence. --Mourning Dove, 1888-1936


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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:08:20 -0500
From: Harlan Bauer <blacksab at midwest.net>
Subject: Please take a moment to raise your glass...

Some of you may know Bruce Garner as an occasional contributor to this 
list. Today, his daughter Sarah Garner and her partner Christine Collins 
took the Bronze medal in the women's lightweight double sculls rowing 
competition in Sydney Australia! Please take a moment to raise a glass in 
their honor.

Thank you,

Harlan.
__

Harlan Bauer                            Malt does more than Milton can
Murphysboro, IL                         To justify God's ways to man...
<blacksab at midwest.net>                             --A. E. Houseman



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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:55:16 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Snafu's

Here are a few snafu's for you. I was brewing a Vienna today. While running
the wort off from the boiler to the vessel I chill the beer in, the valve
on the receiving vessel was very slightly open. Lost only a cup and a half
or so, but what a sticky mess.

Then...proceeded with my immersion chiller. Had the water running fairly
fast. I was worried that running it too fast may be a waste of water. I
felt the output and it was hotter than hell, so I thought it must not be
too fast, I'm going to chill this nice and quick. 15 minutes later, still
running fast, still coming out of the chiller hotter than hell. Then I
noticed I turned the hot water on instead  of the cold water.

Finally, I noticed my upright freezer door was wide open. I had been in it
about 15 minutes earlier. Sumbitch, this beer better be good!



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---