---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  home malting - letter to a farmer (Clifton Moore)
  de-leading brass (Randy Ricchi)
  Contradictory Advice--and a proposal (John Adsit)
  Siphon Tubes (Rod Prather)
  re: Keg CO2 Purging & racking ("C.D. Pritchard")
  re: 3-ring circus & automating gas-fired rigs ("C.D. Pritchard")
  low extract yield (?) (RIPIC80)
  Re: boiling vanilla beans ("Martin Brungard")
  boiling vanill beans ("Kevin Jones")
  Re: boiling vanill beans (Some Guy)
  fridge won't start--fridgeguy (Scott Jose)
  fridge won't start--fridgeguy (Scott Jose)
  re: Obsessed and anal in sanitation land (John_E_Schnupp)
  Muddy Beer (Steven Cardinal)
  Prechilling ("Peter J. Calinski")
  475 F 'Boil' ("H. Dowda")
  infection troubleshooting ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  double milling / teel pump ("Drew Avis")
  Bottling, Sanitation & Brushes (alastair)
  Ireks malts ("Brian Lundeen")
  plastic in brewing ("Al Beers")
  Threshhold perceptions / sponsorship / hop plugs (David Harsh)
  Re: What do these mean? (Doug Hurst)
  Immersion chiller boiling ("Kevin Jones")
  Sanitation containers ("Kevin Jones")
  Rocky Mountain Highs ("Whyman Dental Lab, Inc")
  Grain brewing virgin (Beaverplt)
  re sanitation ("Stephen Alexander")


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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 06:45:26 -0700
From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu>
Subject: home malting - letter to a farmer

I owe HBD an update on my home malting efforts.  This last winter I put
about a ton of malt out of my garage.  What is to come?  Read on.

I spoke with Mike on 8 September about buying a Unibag of seed barley
for use in my garage malting experiments.

In the hopes of giving this effort the best chance for success I wanted
to pass along my priorities with respect to seed quality, and to ask for

a few small (palm grab) samples, of candidate seed so that I might know
what we have to work with.

My priorities are:

high germination rate

uniform plump seeds

low fraction of damaged seed, weed contaminants, and microbial presence

I have for the past few years been attempting to demonstrate proof of
concept level information on the malting of Alaskan grown barley.  I am
encouraged by the results thus far from the Harrington variety, which
was chosen for its proven acceptance as a malting barley and the large
production in northern climates in Canada.

Production failures this year provide an opportunity to explore
alternative varieties.

My current plant occupies my garage and includes:

steeping vessels- standard barrel size lots (approx. 150 lb. dry weight
per batch)

floor compounds for germination beds

and a kiln

I can have about three batches in the works at a time which results in
an average production of about 50 lb. per day.  This is enough malt to
provide the local home brewing community with malt and I eventually
intend to interest one of the two micro breweries in Fairbanks to make a

batch from locally grown barley.

In buying barley from you, I am interested in trying any variety that
may aid in the success of this demonstration. Even though you may not
have enough of a particular lot to let me have a thousand pound bag, I
would like to consider it in whatever quantity you can free up, if you
feel that it is a variety you can more reliably produce.

I feel that production reliability is the greatest obstacle to the
establishment of malting facilities in Alaska.  Any plant needs to be
sized such that it matches production with market.  I can envision the
development of infrastructure for storage and transport, and the brewing

demand for malt within Alaska would support a malting industry, but it
all hinges on production.

I am including some sample bags and a self addressed envelope.  Please
label the samples uniquely such that we may use the designations in
future grain purchase agreements.

Thank you for your willingness to participate in this exploration.

Sincerely,
Clifton Moore






Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:05:07 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: de-leading brass

I've had brass ball valves on my kettles for years. It was at least two or
three years after I started using when I first heard that you should
de-lead them before using them for beer production. I thought, well after 2
or 3 years of beer production, I probably already de-leaded them, right
into my beer and then into my gut, so I never did anything about it.

Was I right in assuming there would be no benefit from trying to de-lead
the ball valves at that point? How much lead can you get out of a ball
valve, and is it enough to be a health concern? What are the symptoms of
lead poisoning? 



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 10:43:19 -0600
From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us>
Subject: Contradictory Advice--and a proposal

We seem to have some new brewers participating right now, which is
great.  I have to wonder, though, what they must be thinking as they
come here for the answers to some of their brewing questions.

In the past few days they have been told to make sure they keep a low,
gentle boil.  They have also been told how important it is to maintain a
hot, vigorous boil.  They have been told to keep the lid on. They have
been told to keep the lid off.

Someone should advise them to go to the archives, where they will get
tons of important instructions, like:

Never use plastic in fermentation--and--always use plastic in
fermentation.
Never use dry yeast--and--dry yeast is just wonderful.
Hot side aeration destroys your beer--and--hot side aeration is nothing
to be worried about.
Decoction mashing is the only way to go--and--decoction mashing just
creates bother and mess with no advantage over infusion mashing.

It goes on and on, through about every step in the brewing process.

Having been around a few years, I have at least learned what these
topics are, and it's fun to anticipate the ensuing battle when a
question is asked.  It's like watching a great tennis match.  As I
watch, my head snapping back and forth to try to follow the action, I
have been able to make some informed decisions about my own brewing, so
it's even valuable.

Of course, the problem is that someone who is new might take the first
volley as the definitive answer, not realizing that that shot will soon
be returned.  Few people will search the archives for the full histories
of the debates.

So I have a proposal.

Why doesn't someone write a book with a title like "Controversies in
Home Brewing"?  It could have a chapter for each controversial topic.
It would be as objective as possible, with each side getting its due.
It would include references to critical scientific studies.  It could
finish each chapter with an informed summary.

Frankly, I think a book like that would be among the most important in a
home brewer's library.

- --
John Adsit
Boulder, Colorado
jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us




Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:33:04 -0300
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Siphon Tubes

Here's a question for you guys.  What is the ideal location for the siphon 
tube in a Half Keg Lauter tun made from a SS beer keg.  OK, in the middle, 
I know that.  I mean vertical placement.  How far above the bottom of the keg
should the siphon be.  Is it ok for it to be down in the grain bed grain bed 
or should you try to have it higher.  It does seem best that the whole tube 
always be below the level of the lautering wort to make it easy 
to start the siphon. 
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:39:18
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: Keg CO2 Purging & racking

Dan Listermann posted Tim Rastedder's idea:

>Hold a
>lit match over the whatever vessal you are trying to evacuate ( bottles,
>mini kegs, corny kegs, carboys, ect.)  and time how long it takes to
>extinguish.  You may only have to do it once, but it gives you an idea of
>how long is long enough.

Going from memory, the flame extinction concentration of co2/air is
somewhere around 10% O2, so, when the match first goes out, the O2
concentration is about 1/2 of normal air concentration.  Call the time to
flame extinction T and keep the co2 flow constant.  After 2T, the O2 should
be around 5%, 2.5% at 3T, ect. (but never 0%)  That's the theory anyway and
it assumes the co2 does not form a blanket and it mixes well with the air
in the keg.  I personally don't trust in a co2 blanket forming when purging
since the co2 flow would have to be pretty slow to minimize mixing the co2
with the air in the keg.  

I usually purge kegs to be filled by pressurizing them to ~5 psig, bleed
the pressure and repeat X times ( X is determined by how anal and patient
I'm feeling at the time- usually 3 to 5).  As per the above, it does not
reduce the 02 to 0%, but it's fast and yields a decent pain/gain ratio for
me, especially since I rack the brew into the purged vessel slowly (surface
turbulance greatly increases O2 pickup).  After racking I always repeat the
pressure/bleed routine at least 5 times.

I used to purge kegs by "push/purging" (filling/sanitizing with iodophor
then using co2 to push the iodophor solution out).  I also wasted a lot of
co2 on more than one occassion- I used a co2 cylinder/regulator as the
pushing/purging source, got bored waiting for the keg to empty and wandered
off for too long.  At least those kegs were very well purged <g>.  Lucky,
it was in the garage and it didn't get purged as well.  Next step was to
dedicate a spare and well purged cornie keg to use as a co2 container.
Filled to ~ 10 psig, it limited the amount of co2 i'd waste when (not "if"
<g>) I forgot about the purging.  The CO2 keg also makes for a more handy
co2 source than the co2 cylinder/regulator.  Lastly, adopted the
pressurize/relief purging method, added a cheap air-type regulator to the
co2 keg and upped the keg pressure to around 40 psig.  I used an over-size
o-ring on the keg and coated it with keg lube before installing it on the
keg lid.  This and a soap bubble leak test greatly reduces the chance of
leakage.  The ring and lube are available from
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/ , (nice stuff and supplier, no affiliating,
ect.)

=   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   =   
Regarding the tread on racking from keg to keg- set up the kegs so the brew
will siphon and use co2 to start the siphon by pressurizing the full keg
(do NOT suck on the purged keg- a lung full of co2 is not good!).  After
flow starts, connect tubing between the gas-in port on each keg.  This
keeps the system sealed from air and it's o2 and microbes. I use something
similar with carboys fitted with those 2-hole orange caps.  You've got to
be real cautious about the pressure used to start the siphon if you want to
rack from a glass carboy or it may turn into a glass grenade.  A piston
type pump used for filling ballons works.

c.d. pritchard  cdp at chattanooga.net
http://hbd.org/cdp/   http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:13:44
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: 3-ring circus & automating gas-fired rigs

Glen Pannicke asked alot about electrically heated boilers and RIMS.

My rig is all electric.  Info on an older incarnation is at either of the
URLs in the sig. line below.  It was based on Ken Schwartz's Five Gallon
Plastic Electric Brewery at
http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/plasticbrew/electric.html which is a
must-read.  The current boiler uses a Sankey keg insulated with carpet
padding with a 4500 W, 240 V low watt density heater that's factory bent
into an "S" shape to further reduce the power density (~76 W/sq.in).
There's a powered stirrer in it that but I've brewed without it w/o any
scorching on the element or discoloration of the brew.  Power is fully on
(240 V) until boil is imminent then the power is throttled by turning the
power on/off at a variable duty cycle via a solid state relay controlled
with a simple circuit (THANKS Ron for the design!).  I've only brewed 5
gallon batches with it but it boils 12 gal of brewing water fast enough for
even impatient me, so I'm confident it'll work with 10 gal. batches.

>1. Will boiling wort have any adverse effect upon an electric hot water tank
heating element?

Not unless you run it w/o it being immersed in liquid.  

>4. I've seen some RIMS systems use black pipe as the RIMS chamber.  What is
the composition of black pipe & it's effect upon wort?

"Black pipe" that's suitable for threading is steel and hence mostly iron.
I wouldn't use it for a RIMS chamber since it's gonna add copious amounts
of iron to the brew- especially due to the large surface area in contact
with the wort.   I've read repeatly that iron in beer is reportly not a
good thing and, I'd wager you'd be able to taste it in the brew.  Heck- the
conventional wisdom is that even chipped enamel ware is bad.

>5. Given enough electrical power, is propane supplement even needed?

Not unless the heating elements are grossly undersized or underpowered. 

=  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  
Re: the thread on automating gas-fired rigs.  

Safety automating a 240V, 20A electrical heater is trival compared to doing
so with a gas burner and it's a prime reason I went all-electric.  Unless
you're well versed in the safety considerations, don't even consider
gadgeteering your own.  I've had to review designs for a couple of
industrial burner controls.  There are relatively esoteric failure modes of
such systems that novices will likely neglect.  

c.d. pritchard  cdp at chattanooga.net
http://hbd.org/cdp/   http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:05:36 EDT
From: RIPIC80 at aol.com
Subject: low extract yield (?)


   My days of all extract are over, and my days of all grain will probably 
never be, out of sheer laziness and paranoia. So that leaves partial mash - 
my brewing habits of late. Anyway, I noticed the slagging of Maris Otter the 
last few weeks, so of course that's the malt I used for the brown ale I'm 
making - if I can duplicate the smoothness and balance of Newcastle I'll be 
ecstatic. Anyway, I used Dave Miller's recipe (of 5 books I have, he's my 
favorite), and, according to the extract yields he listed, the gravity of my 
mash should have been around 40. It was 12. So, I ask you, good readers of 
this, the only online site I browse - what the hell happened??? My mash 
schedule is the same as the last beer I made - a cherry stout that 
practically gives me a hardon it's so good - but no protein rest, as I used 
pale ale malt instead of lager.  I don't have a final gravity yet, since the 
wort is cooling and needs to be diluted to a full batch, but that still 
doesn't explain why a 1 hr. starch conversion rest at 153 degrees F  yielded 
such a piss-poor gravity. Is it because I forced cooled about half a cup in 
the freezer, and got a false temperature reading?  I've never measured 
preboil gravity either, and I was tempted to retest the reading after adding 
the extracts and other fermentables, but resisted till the batch was done; 
too late perhaps, but then again, relaxing seemed a better option than having 
a fit. So I ask you - what's the deal?   Even a good ribbing from ole Warren 
White is fine (that guy cracks me up all the damn time).  I should know the 
batch's gravity soon, long before you all read this, but if you have any 
ideas I'd love to hear 'em

frank

p.s. I'm one American who DOES know what a wanker is, for the guy who asked 
last week. Not a term I use too much - sod works better  lol


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:04:09 EDT
From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: boiling vanilla beans

Jerry Daoust asked about boiling vanilla beans in the last 10 minutes or so.

I don't have any info on adding vanilla to the boil, but I do have a comment 
on "dry beaning?".

I visited Rocky River Brewing Co. in Rocky River, OH over Labor Day and had 
a good long visit with head brewer Matt Cole. One of the very interesting 
brews he created was a stout that had bourbon-soaked vanilla beans added in 
a mesh bag in the serving tank. This was an early experiment for Matt on 
this recipe. He said the beans had only been in the beer for about a week 
when I tasted it. I don't remember how many beans he added to that 14 barrel 
batch.

I couldn't detect a pronounced vanilla flavor, but I think the vanilla did 
help accentuate the chocolate character of the stout. I thought it was a 
winner by my palate!

Another winner (in my opinion) was his spiced ale. It was surprisingly clean 
finishing in comparison to every other spiced (christmas) ale that I've 
tasted. I think he is taking this one to GABF. He said this was the first 
year he has entered. Good luck!

Although I couldn't add much to Jerry's request, I think that the folks in 
the Cleveland area owe it to themselves to make the trip to this brewpub to 
check out another good brewer and his products. Matt is an eager 
experimenter, so you may find some unique brews there.


Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL

"Meandering to a different drummer"



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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:18:15 -0500
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com>
Subject: boiling vanill beans

>Subject: boiling vanill beans

>Has anybody used a vanilla bean in the boil for the last 10 minutes or
>so??  I am thinking of trying it but have had one question about
>tannins...  Thanks, Jerry Daoust



Save yourself a lot of time and energy...use extract.  I made a vanilla beer
(against my will but as a favor for a friend, it don't like the stuff) and
use extract.  I added the extract to the bottling bucket to taste ( her
taste).  I kept three bottles and sent them into a competition, won my first
Blue Ribbon....with many mixed emotions.




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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:39:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: boiling vanill beans

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Kevin Jones wrote...

> Save yourself a lot of time and energy...use extract.  

Oh, no! Not the exttract vs. whole bean brewing controversy again ;-)

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:31:50 -0700
From: Scott Jose <sejose at pacbell.net>
Subject: fridge won't start--fridgeguy

Many thanks, Forrest (I'd use an exclamation point here, but I spilt homebrew
on my keyboard, and some keys don't work).

I measured resistance between common and motor terminals and read 4.0 ohms.
Between common and start terminals, I read 14.6 ohms.  Between all three
terminals and ground I read infinity.  So I am assuming that the compressor is
ok, though the relationship between resistance values is inverse of what you
predicted--and you had indicated this could be the case.

The relay itself and the compressor terminals look very clean, shiny and dry.
The overload, however has rusty patches.  So my intended course of action is
to replace the overload, especially since I do hear a click and an attempted
restart when I immediately plug the fridge back in after it quits.  Or should
I replace the relay too?  Could the relay cause the overload to open?

Many thanks again,

Scott in Auburn, California






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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:32:52 -0700
From: Scott Jose <sejose at pacbell.net>
Subject: fridge won't start--fridgeguy

Many thanks, Forrest (I'd use an exclamation point here, but I spilt homebrew
on my keyboard, and some keys don't work).

I measured resistance between common and motor terminals and read 4.0 ohms.
Between common and start terminals, I read 14.6 ohms.  Between all three
terminals and ground I read infinity.  So I am assuming that the compressor is
ok, though the relationship between resistance values is inverse of what you
predicted--and you had indicated this could be the case.

The relay itself and the compressor terminals look very clean, shiny and dry.
The overload, however has rusty patches.  So my intended course of action is
to replace the overload, especially since I do hear a click and an attempted
restart when I immediately plug the fridge back in after it quits.  Or should
I replace the relay too?  Could the relay cause the overload to open?

Many thanks again,

Scott in Auburn, California




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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:58:20 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: Obsessed and anal in sanitation land

From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.

>The bottle says 1 oz in 10 gallons gives 12.5ppm.  I'm
>assuming that these are US fluid ounces, not weight or some other damn
>funny measure.  Am I right?  If so, and if I just want to make up around a
>gallon of solution, that works out to a half-teaspoon in just under a
>gallon of water (3 quarts, 10 ounces, IIRC).  Geez that doesn't seem like
>much.  Am I on target?

I've been using 3 ml per gallon (1/2 teaspoon = 2.46ml).  I keep my carboys
filled with iodaphor solution.  When I know the storage times will be
extended I usually step it up to about 5 ml/gal.  I use a graduated
measuring glass that you can find in most lawn and garden stores.  It's
labeled in oz, ml, Tblsp and tsp.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Homebrewery
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 05:04:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Cardinal <scardinal at yahoo.com>
Subject: Muddy Beer

I just finished brewing my 2nd all-grain batch in a
row  that has come out muddy - not just hazy or
cloudy, but muddy.  Last time, I tried batch sparging
for the first time, so I attributed it to that.  This
time, however, I did a normal sparge.  I realize it is
early, maybe it will clarify more during fermentation,
but I don't recall any of my earlier all-grains
starting out this muddy.  (I had a 2 year gap between
chances to do all-grain)

  The only issue during the process I noticed was a
difficulty getting the mash up to 170F prior to
sparging.  The runoff appeared relatively clear (not
crystal clear) and my gravity was good.

Would that be my problem?

  I've been receiving the HBD for a few years now, but
this is my first post (actually, I may have posted a
long time ago - too many beers under the belt since
then).

To throw in a little bragging - I just got back from 2
weeks in Belgium and was fortunate to be in Brussels
for a weekend beerfest in the Grote Markt - what a
fantastic time! They really know how to hold a fest! 
Due to blocked highways from the truckers strike, we
were unable to try and visit the Westvleteren abbey. 
But we did visit Cantillon and Henrick Straffe, plus
the Brewers museum.  Definitely need to go back for
another visit.

Cheers
Steve

=====
This sentence is identical to the one you are reading now.

(Sorry about the following advertisement...)




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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:23:11 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Prechilling

Sebastian Padilla states:

In an effort to save water in this here desert I was thinking of 
recirculating the water over a block of ice using a pump.

You could use the old manual method like me.    First I push tap water
through the immersion chiller.  When the rate of cooling slows down, I get
a bottling bucket and add all the ice and even "blue" ice packages I have
handy.  Then I fill up the bucket with water.  Give it a few minutes to
cool. (Actually, when I see the cooling rate taper off, I start this ice
bucket so it is ready.)  Then I run this cool water through the chiller
(gravity feed).  I just let the output of the chiller run down the driveway
but if you want to conserve water, you could catch it in another bucket. 
When the catcher bucket is half full (or full to what ever level you can
lift easily), dump it back into the ice bucket.

Hope this helps.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:05:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: 475 F 'Boil'

Have the laws of physics changed, or was someone BSing
the group?  Unless under pressure, water turns to
steam at 212 F.  What would it take - a hundred psi? -
to get liquid water to 475 F?

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:12:25 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: infection troubleshooting

Louis K. Bonham wrote regarding infection troubleshooting:

>Plate out some of the contaminated beer on LMDA to ID what the bugs
>are.  If it's a pedio infection, replace all your plastic and get downright
>medieval on cleaning everything else -- pedio can be a real bitch to get
rid
>of.

"Downright medieval"...  Anything involving a pair of pliers and a
blowtorch? (Pulp Fiction humor, here)  I had what I believed to be a pedio
infection of my equipment once.  I knew it was equipment related as 2
batches went south, back to back.  Normal bleach and plain scrubbing did not
seem to kill the little bastards off.  But here is what I'd consider to be
"Medieval" as I didn't really know who was making that combination of dirty
sweat socks/ rotten fish smell in my beer.  First I trashed all plastic
hoses associated with the process.  It's not worth trying to salvage if it
costs you a batch of good beer!  All small plastic and rubber parts were
autoclaved (boiling for 30 min will work too).  Then I got to work on the
fermenters.  Mind you this regimen will only work in on glass as it is
corrosive to metals:  Detergent wash & scrub, warm caustic soak, cold acid
soak, quat soak and then finally a bleach soak.  Warm caustic will kill of
most anything and if followed by a quat, your fermenter will probably be as
devoid of life as the moon.  The acid soak was just to be sure and the (at
this point) unnecessary bleach soak was because I was mad! ;-)  

I don't suggest that most people do this as handling caustic and acid
solutions (NaOH and HCl respectively) can be dangerous if you're not
experienced - especially their neutralization and disposal.  I just thought
some would find my actions to be amusing.  But it did work!


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato





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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:03:16 GMT
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: double milling / teel pump

G'day mates[1],

Recently Dave Burley explained the advantages of double milling grain to 
simulate the four roller mill the big boys use.  Another poster discussed 
tempering grain with water before milling to reduce flour from the husks, 
with the added advantage of reducing dust.  I believe the recommended rate 
is 2 Tbs of water per pound of grain, with the grain allowed to sit for 30 
minutes absorbing the water before milling.  Now, I'm wondering if these 
techniques are redundant.  If I temper my grain AND double mill it will my 
sparge run like a wombat in heat?  Or am I just wasting my time?  I'd be 
curious to hear Dave's thoughts on this.

Second, I recently purchased a "slightly used" pump for my bottom fired RIMS 
project.  It's a Teel 1P677A, a mag pump that is no longer manufactured.  
Anyone else out there using this pump anymore?  It has smooth plastic 
connectors which have a slight flair at the end - anyone know how to connect 
hoses to this sucker?  (I know, I know, order a real pump from Moving 
Brews... but the exchange rate is killing us up here.)

Drew Avis, Bush Tucker Man's biggest fan, brewing in the billabong-infested 
region of Merrickville, Ontario
(StrangeBrew 1.3 now available: http://www.geocities.com/andrew_avis/sb/)

[1] This term includes but is not limited to cat-swinging Antipodeans,
Pivonian Swedes, Merkins exiled to Turkey, Scurrilous Scotsmen, the Michigan 
brewing militia, Winnipeg Brew Bombers, and The Germans ("oooh, The 
Germans!" "Stop it Mr. Burns.")
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: alastair <alastair at odin.he.net>
Subject: Bottling, Sanitation & Brushes

Fiendish sanitizes and fellow bottlers,

I've been reading the various bottling and sanitation processes and thought 
I'd throw in my experiences.

One thing no one mentioned was bottle brushes. If there's a layer of crud, 
even if you can't see it, it will almost always spread infection. Even if you 
soak the bottles in straight bleach, the top layer of contamination will 
protect a lower layer of baddies from proper sanitation. A few weeks of beer 
soaking on it will draw out these baddies and cause problems (especially at 
the beer line, where things collect and build up). A good brushing will clean 
it up and you can forget about all the other anal stuff!

What I do is fill my bottling bucket half way with B-Brite solution. I dunk 
the bottles in and fill half way. They get a good brushing (making sure the 
neck gets done) and then a good rinse. I do no further cleaning and have 
never had a problem. I use the oxy caps and put them on straight from the 
pack. I'm careful not to handle them and squeeze them out of the bag one at a 
time. I clean hoses, cane and wand with B-Brite also, and usually replace the 
hose every 10 batches (5 ft of 3/8th ID is pretty cheap).

That's about it, and it's pretty painless. I had a close look at my brewing 
environment (kitchenette in basement) during a weekend brewing session and 
it's pretty disgusting. There's brown grime around the taps and in the 
corners... it's time to get out the bleach and scrub things down. Even so, I 
haven't had an infection for a long time and never had a bottle problem.

One last note. The last 2 batches, I miscalculated the amount of bottles and 
didn't have enough. I just pulled some of the shelf, gave them a quick rinse 
with tap water and filled them. I marked these bottles to drink them first. 
There were no rings and they tasted great! After I finish a bottle, I rinse 
it out to make sure there's nothing bacteria can chew on left in it. There's 
no reason why anything would crawl in there and start breeding, so even off 
the shelf, I wasn't surprised there's no infection. Saying that though, 
without a brushing, things will build up and the rings will form... yuck!

Happy brushing folks!

Alastair


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:55:07 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Ireks malts


Randy Ricchi makes an excellent point when he writes:

> A lot has been said about using Munich malt to get a nice maltiness in
> beers made with an infusion mash. Another thing to consider
> is the BRAND
> of munich malt.

This is something I've been saying for years (mostly to myself, under my
breath, whilst contemplating my navel). The maltster matters, not just for
Munich but any malt. When people are giving their recipes, they should not
only give the type of malt, but the maltster as well (unless of course they
view full disclosure as a threat to their competitive edge).

On the topic of Munich malt, I have been using Ireks simply because it is
easily obtainable for me. I never hear this maltster talked about, either
here or in rec.crafts.brewing. Is that because it is not widely available,
or because they are generally considered to be a second-rate maltster?
Anyone have any opinions on Ireks, good or bad?

Brian



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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:33:23 EDT
From: "Al Beers" <albeers at hotmail.com>
Subject: plastic in brewing

  D. Schultz wrote "There have been some recent posts on what types of 
plastics make up various homebrewing items:
Let me know if you want me to post O2 permeabilities."

Yes, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much,

Don't take life too seriously...you won't get out alive.

Al
albeers at hotmail.com

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:50:42 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Threshhold perceptions / sponsorship / hop plugs

Domenick Venezia points out: 
> ...I myself have a very high tolerance for diacetyl.  You may be
> very sensitive to DMS. 

I feel this is one of the most important things for people to know when
judging their (or other beers).  Unlike Domenick, I am *really*
sensitive to diacetyl but have trouble picking up DMS from a plate of
cooked corn (ok, not quite that bad).

If you remain concerned, ask people at your next homebrew club meeting. 
Just do it as early as possible before they sample the latest
barleywines, doppelbocks, etc. so their palates are fresh.  Most beers
are pretty good at midnight...

- -----------------
Questions on the whole sponsorship thing-
	Does the hbd exist as a legal entity?  If not, should it?  If "Joe's
Homebrewing" provided cash for sponsorship, would it go to an individual
or to the hbd?  Is that a problem for a sponsoring business?  Would such
legal existence be a bad idea, as in asking the State of Ohio if its
okay to have a homebrew competition?

	Could the donations from readers be more agressively requested?  As in,
"a $5 donation from readers is requested?" in the heading.  Maybe the
mailings could go out in two sets of "paid subscriber" and "unpaid
subscriber"?  Maybe I'm proposing a hell of a lot more work than it
sounds like?

If more money came in from individuals, this might eliminate the cash
flow situation once and for all.  
	To Pat and/or Karl- How many subscribers are there and how much money
is needed?  
	To Collective- Willing to pony up a few bucks each?

- ------------------
About hop plugs-
	If you really want hop plugs, you can make your own using a pvc tube,
an appropriately sized wooden dowel and a rubber mallet.  I did it once
but since decided to use mason jars in the deep freeze for storage purposes.

Dave Harsh
Bloatarian Brewing League				Cincinnati, OH


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:55:22 -0500
From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: What do these mean?

Shane,

OG stands for Original Gravity.  Which is a measure of the Specific Gravity
of the cooled wort before fermentation.  FG stands for Final Gravity which
is the Specific Gravity of the finished beer.   IBU stands for International
Bittering Units which is a method of standardizing a recipie's hop content
given the percent Alpha Acid and weight of the hops and time in boil.  Most
homebrewers use HBU (Homebrew Bittering Units) or AAU (Alpha Acid Units)
which doesn't take into account time in the boil but is easier to calculate.
HBU and AAU equals onces of hops times percent alpha acid.  eg. 2oz. Cascade
hops rated at 5% alpha acid equals 10 HBUs.

Check out John Palmer's book "How To Brew" which is entirely on line at
http://www.howtobrew.com for more information on all of your questions.  The
hops section is at http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-4.html   Other
good sources are Charlie Papazian's "Complete Joy of Homebrewing" and Dave
Miller's "Homebrewing Guide".

Regarding American beer flavor, you can blame three things: the industrial
revolution at the beginning of the 20th century, Prohibition,  and Henry
Ford.  The industrial revolution allowed for the mass production and
distribution of products throughout the country and world.  Prohibition put
most breweries out of business leaving only the largest few.  Henry Ford is
responsible (at least a little) for the concept of producing a product in
the largest quantity possible in the least expensive way in order to appeal
to the largest possible audience.  By creating beer that's not hoppy, malty,
sweet or dry, the large breweries appeal to all tastes, read:
Homogenization.  Of course to you and I this means beer that tastes like
piss. 

Hope this helps,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL 


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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:07:28 -0500
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com>
Subject: Immersion chiller boiling

Domenick Venezia Writes:

I see a couple of possible causes.  One is indeed infection.  10 minutes is
not enough time to boil the immersion chiller for sanitation.  Boil it 30
minutes, and the kettle need not be covered during this time.  Other than
that your sanitation seems good.


Once again, I'll take being lucky over smart every time.  4 yrs of brewing
with the same immersion chiller and never had any infection problems, may
the brew gods have mercy on me for saying that.  I never boil my chiller,
just toss it in just before I shut the heat off.  I do keep it very clean,
i.e. rinse after using by dropping it in the hot water collected from the
"first chiller runnings", then store hanging up, and rinse again just before
use, sometimes a quick dip in Star San...not long enough to discolor it.
All that said, I think I will start boiling mine from now on.

PS.  Prime tabs are great!  As a mostly kegging brewer now, they solved my
problem of wanting just a few conditioned bottles out of a batch.  Great for
other priming experiments also.

Drink Better Beer!
Kevin Jones





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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:41:26 -0500
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones at mindspring.com>
Subject: Sanitation containers

Lots of talk about sanitizing methods lately.  Here comes about half of the
normal $.02 worth.

As we all know, the first three rules of brewing are sanitize, sanitize,
sanitize.  Did I mention Sanitation??  I'm a big fan of StarSan.  One of its
draw backs is the cost.  Another problem for home brewers is coiling all
those stiff hoses in a buckets.  Gallons of solution are needed for a few
canes and hoses.  I designed an answer that works for me.  I took 4 inch
PVC, an end cap and made two containers to hold my sanitizer.  Easier to
submerge long hoses, racking canes etc.  It also has a device at the bottom
to raise the submerged items, like the jar blue juice at the barbershop they
keep the combs in.

I use two of these setups so I can dip highly soiled (wort, beer, yeast)
items in one, then soak in the other.  This method keeps the soaking
solution cleaner, longer. Every so often, I check the pH and freshen it with
StarSan.  Note:  Keep a cover on the solution when not brewing...bugs love
the stuff, but it does not like them.  In fact, I recently poured some in a
small, shallow pan in the brewery (Ok, its a garage when the car is inside)
to attract some pesky flies.  It got them all.  For Matrix Chart showing fly
survival time Vs pH level of StarSan solution, see....Oh come on, no one is
that big of a geek!

My Number 1 brewery rule:  After the boil, if I'm not using a tool, it rests
submerged in the sanitizer.
If anyone is interested, email me and I will post the details of the design,
parts list etc on the digest.




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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:27:21 -0600
From: "Whyman Dental Lab, Inc" <whymandl at milehigh.net>
Subject: Rocky Mountain Highs

Bob says: "Will be in Denver the last week of October for a conference
and would
appreciate suggestions for "Don't Miss" beer/brewing experiences. Will
be downtown at the Adam's Mark .... no car."

And for anyone in town for the GABF

Here are my suggestions within walking distance;
Falling Rock Tap House, 1919 Blake St., 69 or so beers on tap from
around the world plus many more in the bottle.
Wynkoop Brew pub, 18th & Wynkoop,  the 1st (I think) and still the best
in downtown Denver.
Great Divide Brewing Co, 2201 Arapahoe, a great mircobrewery with a
small tasting area right in the brewery. I'd go during the afternoon, as
I don't know how long they are around. Call and ask for Brian or Tara,
the owners. 303-296-9460
Rock Bottom on the 16th St. Mall has good food and is always crowded,
but the beer is only average.
Sandlot Brewery at Coors Field, 2161 Blake
Breckenridge brewery, 2220 Blake

Enjoy,
Roger Whyman
Englewood, CO



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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:55:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grain brewing virgin

First of all thanks to all the private e-mails I
received offering encouragement. I stuck with my plan
to go with the partial grain recipe just because I
liked the name of it. Everything went great. I have to
believe that I was able to anticipate most of the
possible problems because of you folks. After I was
done I told SWMB_ that I'm really nervous now because
everything went so well. It makes me wonder what I did
wrong.

I do have a couple of concerns I'd like to ask the
group. 

    My SG was only 1.02 where it should be 1.045. I've
never run into a situation where my SG was lower than
it should be. Will I run into problems farther along
here? Is there anything I can or should do?
    I've always chilled the wort using the immersion
method. My sink can hold 20 lbs of ice plus my boiler
easily, so I've never felt the need to make or buy a
wort chiller. The only problem I run into is sometimes
I chill the wort too much. I did it with this batch
down to about 60-65 degrees F before I yanked it out
of the ice. Could this be the cause of my low SG?

Other than that, my batch is fermenting nicely and I
celebrated with a bottle of weiss beer I made a year
ago (It's amazing what you find when you organize your
stuff.)

Thanks again

Beaver




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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:11:26 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re sanitation

Jay Pfaffman writes ...

>The chances of picking up an airborne contaminant are very smal
> & your beer's got plenty of alcohol already.

I'm not sure where on the planet you reside Jay, but picking up airborne
contamination is absolutely trivial in my part of the country during humid
weather (and it's been very humid this year).  I know several HBers 
who don't bother to brew at certain times of year.  Some attribute this to
proximity to wet trees/tree litter which does support fungi marvelously. 
Hey - I foraged over 10lbs of edible fungi yesterday from local woods so
I'm not entirely complaining.

Most usually this beer problem is due to fungal infection by
non-Saccharomyces yeasts which cause white floaties or
bottle rings.

>Does your beer taste bad?  If not, you've not got an infection. 

NO ! These yeast infections sometimes don't impart any particularly
noticeable flavors but they do decrease the body and make the
beer somewhat more attenuated, drier.  The are able to form
slow growing surface colonies on fully fermented beer even at
5-6ABV.  The resulting beers are drinkable tho' less appealing.

>My
>guess is that you're priming with DME rather than corn sugar & the
>proteins (right?) are what make that little ring. 

Since I can produce these infections at time of year
on unprimed beer that explanation is straight out.  

G.Fix suggested a test of sanitation procedures that requires no
special equipment.  Half fill a sanitized jar with wort  just before
pitching and leave this sealed in a warm spot.  If it survives three
days w/o obvious signs of infection (turbidity, aroma, CO2) your
process is fine.  Anything less and you have a potential problem.
Not a perfect test - but very cheap and effective.

I'd suggest you go ahead and get real anal about sanitation till you
can pass the test above   Then figure out where you can back off
on the extreme procedures.

 -S




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