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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  RE:Anyone Heard of Two Hearted Ale? (Rod Prather)
  Two Hearted Ale... AGAIN (Rod Prather)
  Jethro Gump Sez..."Pathetic" ("Rob Moline")
  2 Hearts - Call for Zymurgy Authors: making stuff, Geeks ("Ray Daniels")
  re: wind screen (PVanslyke)
  Drinking Beer In The Land of Pussy Cats ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Mmmmm....Two Hearted Ale! ("Kevin Kutskill")
  Thanks to all on the Two Hearted Ale tips (Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger)
  mild yeast (Vachom)
  Re: Anyone Heard of Two Hearted Ale? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Calculus ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Beer and the election ("Todd M. Snyder")
  Brewing supplies ("Weaver Joseph Todd  Capt. 39MDG/SGOAM")
  re: wind screen for cooker (Road Frog)
  Re: Will the true bladder fermenter please stand up (Jeff Renner)
  Some interesting and informative historical points ("Dr. Pivo")
  dead sparrows (Randy Ricchi)
  Re: Head Retention ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Dead Sparrow Ale ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Keg cutting & RIMS/HERMS piping ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re:  Two Hearted Ale ("Paul Gatza")
  Re: glass-ceramic stove top (Matthew Comstock)
  Gump reports ("Alan Meeker")
  Out of C02 ("Marcoux, Eric P")
  Beer tubes revisited (Doug Hurst)
   ("Bjorn Thegeby")
  thermo question (kevin m mueller)
  Relative Importance of various brewing factors (Nathan Matta)
  Re: ServoMyces ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  %Alcohol table, revamped (Chris Cooper)


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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 02:35:17 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: RE:Anyone Heard of Two Hearted Ale?

You're right.  "Fishing the Big Two Hearted" was a short story by Hemingway. 
The story was named after a famous trout stream in the northern upper peninsula
of Michigan.  I never read it myself but the rumor is that Hemingway was
actually fishing the Fox River, a native brook trout stream nearby. The Two
Hearted just made a more colorful title.  

I don't know the Ale but it would be fitting knowing Hemingway's love of hearty
drink.  Having fished the area, it would have to be raw and hearty to deserve
the name.  Betcha' it's from someplace in Michigan.....

>I can't remember where the heck I've seen the name -- maybe it was a
>short story title, maybe it's the name of a beer (from England? the
>upper mid-west? of the U.S.?). 
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana


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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 02:41:25 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Two Hearted Ale... AGAIN

Obviously I wrote before I read Pat's glowing response on Bell's Two Hearted. 
Evidently it is befitting the old man's memory.  Now that you mention it, I have
seen that one.  Now I'll have to buy some.  I love drinking Bell's Ales I just
hate paying for them.
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 02:15:16 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Jethro Gump Sez..."Pathetic"

		Jethro Gump Sez..."Pathetic"

<Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 14:10:35 EST
>From: Tombrau at aol.com
>Subject: politics and beer
>Brew Brothers:
>Most people know reformed smokers are the toughest on smokers and my
>experience sees similar from reformed drinkers.
>George W.'s past dui conviction and his "seen the light" attitude makes me
>think he would quickly yield to anti alcohol forces to prove his reform. I
>can just see the MADD lobby showing him exactly how to amend his evil past.
>On the other hand, I recall reading in a beer newspaper about how Gore had
a
>party at a D.C. brewpub and liked the red so much he had the secret service
>secure him several growlers of it.
>I know where I am voting Tuesday.
>Karl and/or Pat I am not certain of the appropriateness of this post and
>would understand its censor. If you don't censor it, do you know where I
can
>get a flame suit quick (and cheap)!!!
>Cheers
>Tom Moench
>Founder and President of
>The No-teetotalers in the Whitehouse Foundation


     Good for you, Sir, for this blatantly political tract....It would be
pathetic, except for the fact that the Clinton/Gore administration has just
signed on to a forced mandate of a National .08 DUI legislation tied to
future federal highway dollars.
     This makes your point pitifully moot, and painful to all operators of
brewpubs, restaurants, bars, and anywhere else someone wants to have a beer
after work. Gotta build that Clinton Legacy, yes?

     Far past pathetic...it is one more step towards a national series of
lawsuits against alcohol manufacturers, similar to the Tobacco suits....that
will scarcely harm A-B and RJ Reynolds/Miller, but might cripple Coors
hundreds of brewpubs, and the last regional brewers like Boulevard, Three
Floyd's, and Victory.
     If Gore had any balls he would have gotten the growlers himself, not
hidden his acquisition of several growlers behind the Secret Service. At
best he is wasting Government dollars. At worst he is a closet drinker.?

     No need for a flame suit, sir.....You have already combusted......

     I can have no argument with any bloke that advocates his political
position, be it Nader, Gore, Buchanan, Bush  or Aunty Bloody Jack...who
cares? Certainly not me.
     And certainly, it was not expected in the HBD.

     But your position that Bush might beholden to MADD screams....... after
the crappy politics that lead the Congress to forward a Bill that included
the .08. What a pack of wankers. And the Clinton/Gore team has made no
secret of their praise for it...
     But make no mistake...all the alcohol industry associations recognize
it for what it is....a pathetic attempt to score votes for an incumbent
running for President.
     Now, when the laws are enacted...your jurisdiction can arrest, and
presumably, considering the ridiculous confiscation laws in this country,
seize the vehicle of a Priest that leaves Church within 15 minutes of
conducting Confession/Communion! All it takes is that initial
Breathalyzer.....and where does the last of the consecrated wine go? Into
the Priest? Usually.

     I sorta liked it better when politics were not displayed here...except
for "Certifiably Inane BS" like my "Beer Party" website
announcement....which is clearly described as a Parody on the site....
     Oh...OK! Your post was another example of "Certifiably Inane BS"!! It
had to be! Or else why would you boast about voting for a candidate whose
administration just sucked the long one down from MADD?
     OHH! It WAS a JOKE! HAHAHA! I get it!

     Except it's NOT very bloody funny if you own a brewpub......or want
to...

Blech!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Past Brewer in BrewPubs
Future Owner/Operator/Brewer in BrewPubs
AHA
IBS
MBAA
Siebel Alumni

Whose Only Public Political Posturing Is Two-Fold....
"National .08 Only Criminalizes Social Drinkers"....and...
"VOTE EARLY, VOTE OFTEN, VOTE GUMP!"
 http://www.jethrogump.com/gumpforprez/



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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 03:10:48 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: 2 Hearts - Call for Zymurgy Authors: making stuff, Geeks

Hello all:

First a personal note: Two Hearted Ale has been mentioned here in recent
days. This is a world class beer that Larry Bell has the temerity to produce
on a seasonal basis rather than year around. Everyone should drink more AND
write frequent e-mails to the brewery demanding that it be upgraded to
year-around availability. You won't be disappointed, believe me.

Just my 2 cents on the subject. Now on to our feature presentation.

Looking ahead to the May/June Zymurgy, the issue theme is Brewing Systems
and Equipment. I hope to have good features on pumps and homebrew materials
science by knowledgeable experts (if you qualify, let me know . . .), but I'
m also looking for some shorter "how-to" articles on building various pieces
of homebrew equipment. This might cover anything from a wort chiller to your
very own hundred-square-foot walk-in cooler. If you have built something
that you like and either have written about it or want to, drop me a line.

Geeks: I need contributions and topics for the "Geeks" column. Original
experiments or literature research on a brewing topic are our main
interests. Jan/Feb will include: Handheld Refractometers in Homebrewing from
Louis Bonham and Mash Hopping from Marc Sedam. Time to hear from more of you
homebrew scientists out there.

That's all for now.

Ray Daniels
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Phone: 773-665-1300
Fax: 773-665-0699
E-mail:  ray at aob.org




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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 06:09:42 EST
From: PVanslyke at aol.com
Subject: re: wind screen

Dan

I too have a problem with wind when I brew in the great outdoors. I fashioned 
a wind screen from a piece of alluminum flashing (used for valleys, etc when 
roofing). This was meant to be a temporary fix - but you know how that goes.

Paul VanSlyke >> Deposit, NY



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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:16:12 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Drinking Beer In The Land of Pussy Cats

Just where have I been of late? Graham Sanders will not be pleased to know
that twice in the last week I have flown right over his home heading north
to the town of Cairns. Nor will he be pleased to know that whilst there I
have found a pub that serves New Zealand beer that goes by the name of
Monteith.

I have to be honest, Queensland is not my idea of a brewer's paradise. The
local beer is dreadful, the climate is despicable and the only real
attraction for visitors is the remote possibility of seeing someone eaten
alive by a crocodile. Which in all truthfulness, rarely ever happens.

If you like this sort of thing (drinking beer and watching humans being
eaten), you really have to venture further west to places like Perth. Just
today I got back from there after listening to a chap on the radio who,
whilst waiting for his meal at a seaside restaurant in Cottesloe, looked out
from the balcony and chanced to see a giant White Pointer shark eat a man in
the surf right in front of him!

Kind of makes Graham and his crocodile mates (and even SWMBO for that
matter) sound like a bunch of pussy cats.

Not that I have a problem with pussy cats. Well not since I taught the last
one not to cock his leg over my open fermenter.

But drinking up there in Graham's land was interesting. It seems that
interest in more interesting beers is permeating even to the lost and
forgotten (or should I say "forgettable") state of Queensland.

Now Graham, before you froth at the mouth and fog up your glasses, just
remember we here at Burradoo Breweries love and care for you.

It just isn't your fault, being born a Queenslander.


Cheers
Phil


















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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 07:18:44 -0500
From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at home.com>
Subject: Mmmmm....Two Hearted Ale!

In Digest #3471, Rob was asking about Two Hearted Ale:

Two Hearted Ale is made by the Kalamazoo Brewing Company, in Kalamazoo,
Michigan.  Arguably one of the best American IPA's you can find.  Here is
the link from their website, describing their beer:
http://www.bellsbeer.com/twoheartedale.html , and here is the link for the
homepage: http://www.bellsbeer.com .  If you are interested in brewing a
clone, let me know--our homebrew club has worked diligently, and we have a
good recipe.

Kevin
beer-geek at home.com



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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 07:37:32 -0500
From: Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger <katerob at erols.com>
Subject: Thanks to all on the Two Hearted Ale tips

I knew you would all come through (and that I wasn't losing my mind) !
Thanks for the tips on Kalamazoo Brewing's Two Hearted Ale, and on
Hemingway's short story, 'Fishing the Big Two Hearted,' which I will now
have to find and read.

I'll let you know how the potential clone comes out -- my Dad and I are
getting together to brew a memorial batch for our recently dead pet cat:
it was the poor feline's overdeveloped heart muscle that caused his
death after 13 years, hence the search for the name of the beer.

Thanks again!

- --Rob Hanson
Washington, DC
The Closet Brewery
'post tenebras lux'




- -----------------
I recommend bread, meat, vegetables, and beer.
  --Sophocles




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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:09:34 -0600 
From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: mild yeast

Wayne inquires about yeast for British milds.  I can't vouch for
authenticity, but for a tasty mild and an efficient mash to mug time lapse,
I recommend Safale S-04, arguably the same yeast as Wyeast 1968, arguably
Fuller's yeast.  I brewed a 1.042 brown and fermented with two packets of
Safale.  The beer was done fermenting and clear within 8 days.  Kegged it
up, couple days in the fridge with the gas on, and this beer was on its way
down my gullet in less than two weeks.  A very tasty beer, perfect for
Thanksgiving.

Mike
New Orleans, LA


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:26:39 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Anyone Heard of Two Hearted Ale?

Rob Hanson <katerob at erols.com> of Washington, DC wrote:

>   I can't remember where the heck I've seen the name -- maybe it was a
>short story title, maybe it's the name of a beer (from England? the
>upper mid-west? of the U.S.?).  Does anyone recognize the name, and if
>so, can you provide some information on style?

Okay, here goes my try, but if there are any American Lit profs in 
the audience, take over!

It's from a short story by Ernest Hemingway in the 1924 collection
entitled _In Our Time_, which is about an alter-ego protagonist 
called Nick Adam.  The stories are set in northern Michigan and 
Michigan's Upper Peninsula (U.P.).  Hemingway wrote these following 
WWI in Paris, and the title evidences how the post war generation 
felt about itself - it was "our time."   Talkin' 'bout my (lost) 
g-g-generation.  Some things never change.

Anyway, the stories are about growing up in northern Michigan. 
Hemingway was from Oak Park, Illinois, but his family summered on the 
shores of Walloon lake near Charlevois.  I first read them in 
Freshman English a few weeks after arriving in Michigan from Ohio as 
a skinny freshman at the University of Michigan in 1964, and was very 
taken with Hemingway's lean, almost austere style.  (It amazes me to 
realize that I was almost as far removed in time from these stories 
in 1964 as we are from it now in 2000!).

The story "Big Two Hearted River" is, as I recall, about a battle 
weary veteran, though we're never told any details, who arrives in 
the U.P. to try to restore his shattered self by solitude and 
fishing.  Hemingway is big on the redemptive powers of manly 
activities like fishing, hunting, bull fighting, drinking, screwing, 
etc.  He arrives by train to find that the entire area which he was 
familiar with as a youth before the war has been logged over and 
there is nothing recognizable - only stumps.  But he finds the river 
and fishes for days.

Every day he thinks about going into the swamp to fish, but he never 
does.  The swamp symbolizes death, but then, everything in Hemingway 
symbolized death.  At least according to his critics, and this really 
pissed off Hemingway, who insisted that he didn't have a fascination 
with death.  Then in Idaho in 1961, he blew his head off "cleaning 
his shotgun."  He showed them!

There is in fact no *Big* Two Hearted River in the U.P, but these is 
a Two Hearted River (two sources, presumably).  Kalamazoo Brewery's 
Larry Bell (there's a bad picture of him at the Briess home page 
http://www.briess.com/) chose this name for his  1.062 OG American 
IPA.  It is my favorite of their great line of beers.  Big, hoppy, 
with an almost resinous stickiness from the late addition of American 
hops.  This is what the brewery (http://www.bellsbeer.com/) says 
about it (be sure to check out all of the great  labels:

"Two Hearted Ale

"Our India Pale Ale is easily the most bitter beer we produce; with 
beautiful copper color and dense creamy head. The full blast hop 
bitterness is brought about by extended aging with the liberal 
addition of dry hops to the fermenting beer."

I heartily (nudge) recommend both the beer and the stories, 
especially for those overseas brewers.  Well, the story collection, I 
mean, you probably won't be able to get the beer.  It is so 
essentially American, and I imagine that it isn't well known in Oz, 
or South Africa or Sweden or the Faeroe Islands.  As a matter of 
fact, I've convinced myself.  I still have the book around here.  I 
think I'll reread it myself.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:41:40 -0500
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Re: Calculus

Steve Alexander and Jeff Renner pine on about learning  Calculus on the
net... Steve-- Its not the verbs. or the verb sugar (verbose) that I have
problems with...I could do calculus just fine if it wern't for all those
numbers and wacky greek symbols!!!

;<) Phil Wilcox



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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:05:27 -0500
From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder at buffalo.edu>
Subject: Beer and the election

Tom Moench writes:
>I know where I am voting Tuesday.

I think that's a great idea. I can see it now. A minor brews up a batch
for his buddies, they get in a car and hit a school bus, killing all on
the scene. The media jumps on it, blaming a loophole for allowing access
to barley malt and yeast. Gore trumpets this new cause around the
country and shames the house and senate into pushing through a "Beer
Ingredient Registration" program. You and I now have to register our
brewing equipment, apply for permits to buy barley malt, and are
portrayed as extremists in the media. Eventually there is another beer
related, headline grabbing tragedy, another 'brewing control' measure is
pushed through, and our now-registered equipment is outlawed and quickly
confiscated. 

I feel safer already just thinking about all that additional bureaucracy
protecting me from one or two beer drinking idiots. 

If you think this sounds irrational, and to put yourself in my shoes (or
to remind you of your own shoes, I don't know), try replacing the word
'beer' with 'firearms' in the above paragraphs. 

You shouldn't feel so secure thinking that Gore is a beer drinker. The
NRA thought he was an avid 2nd amendment supporter for years while he
accepted every penny they could give him, and he voted that way just as
long as he was able to get himself elected. When his 'devotion' to the
2nd amendment lost more votes than it won, he sold out. Whatever wins
votes from a liberal media brainwashed public, right?

Now I'll get off my stump and slip into my asbestos suit. We'll have to
agree to disagree on this matter, and that's one of the few redeeming
things about this country. As far as I know we can still think and vote
as we choose, although Al Gore and his party may eventually figure out
how to put an end to that. 

Actually, based on what I see on the morning and evening national news,
they appear to be well on their way toward that goal! 

Cheers!

Todd Snyder
Buffalo, NY

And don't forget:
- -------------------------------------------------------
"A society that will trade a little liberty for a 
little order will lose both, and deserves neither."
Thomas Jefferson
- -------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 17:09:11 +0200 
From: "Weaver Joseph Todd Capt. 39MDG/SGOAM"
Subject: Brewing supplies

I will be visiting San Antonio, TX next week and would like to stock up on
brewing supplies.  Would someone please help me locate shops in the San
Antonio area.  Thanks.

Todd Weaver


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 07:15:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: wind screen for cooker

I to have used lawn chairs and wheelbarrows.  Then I
convinced SWMBO that one of the metal garage was
rusting out.  So I cut out the bottom, and cut a slit
up the side.  I put it around the keg/cooker and hold
it together with a short piece of chain to the
handles.  Works for me!

Glyn Crossno
Brewing in Estill Springs, TN

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:06:01 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Will the true bladder fermenter please stand up

"Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>

>Of course this does raise a cultural question.  Just which
>unrecorded human first thought .... I'll take some milk and
>some stuff from a calves gut and mix it together, separate
>the coagulate, let it mould bacterially  and age and call it
>cheese.

A likely scenario is that animal stomachs make good containers for 
liquids.  Your unrecorded human probably put milk in a young goat's 
stomach for storage and lo! it turned into cheese.

Jeff
- -- 
 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:27:38 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Some interesting and informative historical points

Steve Alexander wonders:

>  I wonder
> what failed experiments occurred along the way toward a
> good blue cheese or emanthaler  ?  Was it the same guy
> who thought SE Asian fish bladders would do a beer good

To which the answer is "yes".

 ... except the first one was the swim bladder of a Russian sturgeon,
which I had just finished using as a condom when I heard "Catherine the
Great's" husband coming.

It was only a coincidence that I discarded the evidence in a glass of
beer, because I generally have one by my side.

Interestingly, that is one of the only glasses of beer that I have ever
left unfinished.... the other one was called a "Budweiser".

The blue cheese thing came about when I was a sheperd, which means
"taking care of sheep", the adults of which are called "lambs" and the
young "mutton".  My name was spelled "Pivoux" then, and it was right
after I invented the French language, which was not as hard as it
sounds, because when you think about it, it really is just speaking
Spanish with a mouth full of cheese, which is what i was doing at the
time, and the slurring caught on.

I was really only using the cave for my milk products because it was
"cool".

As to the stomach trick, I didn't invent that, except that it was
another Dr. Pivo who was Egyptian, and he didn't spell it at all the
same, except used the hyroglyph form which is "(*)".

He was, by the way; the same one who invented beer making, which is why
this information is so important to this forum, and why I'm sharing it
with you.

Steven also wonders:

>  Where has your tongue
> been ?

Now Steve, I've already confessed the condom part, and I REALLY don't
think it appropriate to go into any more detail about why I thought
Catherine was so "Great".

I'm afraid you can only sollicit such information "off line".

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:44:06 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: dead sparrows

David Fisher asks if his malt is ruined after finding a dead sparrow in
the bag. My answer is "BREW WITH IT, MAN!"  Think of all the great brew
names you can come up with for beers made with this malt... Dead Sparrow
pale ale, Dead Sparrow bitter, yada yada yada...  ;^)



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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 11:10:54 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Head Retention



Brunnenbraeu at aol.com wrote:

> Uh, oh, it seems to be an immortal legend, that a good (German?) pilsener
> (you were talking about pilsener, weren't you?) needs 7 minutes to be poured
> adequatly... In seven minutes you'll lose nearly all carbon dioxide, and the
> result is a dead, flat beer with a BIIIG foam head.

But the beer was not dead, flat.  It still had good carbonation, AND a big head.

So there.  :-)

=Spencer



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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:54:05 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: Dead Sparrow Ale

david at colossus.apana.org.au wrote:

" I have just bought a 25 kg sack of Maris Otter...the bag contained aside
from the malt, a very dead and very desiccated sparrow."

Perhaps it's merely napping... or pining for the fjords...

Besides being inappropriate for the style of malt, of course, the bird
should have been fresh.  Paddock Wood malt bags contain only the very finest
of LIVE sparrows.  We would never sell product that was past its shelf life.
I suggest you return the bird immediately to your vendor and demand a
replacement.

Of course, being strictly stylistically correct, our Maris Otter has only
CAMRA approved sea mammals. Only our Huge Bird Peep Smoked malt contains
avian ingredients, although many people mistakenly believe that our
floor-malted Peepkin does.

Remember that decocktion mashing, so useful in converting the rooster in Old
Cock Ale, is also handy for sparrow-based brews.


===================

David, what kind of Maris Otter was it?  If you can, you should exchange the
bag for a replacement.

Boiling kills most bacteria. So the malt might be OK, but I'd want to hear
from a biologist or pathologist about what kinds of things flourish in birds
and bird bodies after death.  And even if it proves to be safe, maybe I'm
just squeamish, but I would hesitate to use malt that once had a dead (or
even live) bird in it, because of what that implies about the handling, and
other possible contamination. We've never had anything like that in the bulk
amounts that come through Paddock Wood.

cheers,

Stephen
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com   www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 11:56:28 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Keg cutting & RIMS/HERMS piping

Regarding Keg Cutting, Graham wrote:

>There is another advantage to making it yourself.  You seem to forgive 
>minor glitches, like a clogged pipe, and swear much less than if its a 
>commercial setup. You know, id its commercial its-"why the f***en hell did 
>they put that bloody tap there." least when you put it there, its "now
thats 
>was silly of me to put it there" 

Actually, in both cases I just give out a barely audible "Dammit!" as I
trudge off to the closet again to get the torch, wrench, hammer or other
weapon of mass brewery destruction.  Then I come back swingin'!  BTW,
there's nothing that says you also can't modify commercially available
devices.  Just because someone else made it, don't mean you can't fix it ;-)

While we're on this subject I have a question about flexible connections for
you RIMS/HERMS brewers out there.  I remember reading something on someone's
web page about using flexible connections on the pump since cavatations,
vibrations and sundry undulations from the pump can loosen a sweat soldered
conncection.  Plus this allows for easy connect/disconnect of the pump and
mashtun for cleaning.  Since I love my beer and don't want to spill a drop,
I've been looking into some type of flexible connection, but I want to
eliminate the use of reinforced plastic tubing as a solution, if possible.
Now there is a readily available corregated copper hose of 3/4" diameter
which is used on hot water heaters that I think will suffice.  It doesn't
need to be super flexible, just enough to provide a little play when
disconnecting from the fittings and to absorb vibrations.  Since most of the
plumbing on my design which is external to the SS tuns will be copper, this
should work fine.  However, most pumps are 1/2 fittings and the most common
plumbing seems to 1/2" as well.  What have you other beergeeks done? 

I figure that a wider diameter before the pump is OK, not much pressure.
But using a small section of wider diameter after the pump may cause
unwanted problems (turbulance, etc...) in the wider section due to the
change in pressure.  What say the collective?

Another question.  Anyone know a good source for acceptable 3-way valves (or
a gated wye with a single lever?)  This seems like a better single hand
alternative to multiple ball valves when diversion from one path to another
is required.  


Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:31:11 -0700
From: "Paul Gatza" <Paulg at aob.org>
Subject: Re:  Two Hearted Ale

Two Hearted Ale is more than just a name. A good friend was visiting
Michigan recently and asked if there was any beer we wanted him to bring
back. We asked for Bell's Two-Hearted Ale. He reported that he bought the
case of beer, and while camping by a lake on the return trip to Colorado,
the two-hearted nature of the beer took over, forcing him and his buddy to
finish every bottle in the case, leaving his friends high and dry.

Paul Gatza
Director-American Homebrewers Association
Association of Brewers
736 Pearl St.        (303) 447-0816 ext. 122
Boulder, CO 80302    (303) 447-2825 fax
mailto:paulg at aob.org
Join the AHA at www.beertown.org



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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:39:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: glass-ceramic stove top

Peter A. Ensminger asked for advice with his
fancy new stove.

Now I know this is not what you wanted, but I
just gotta pipe up.  A couple months ago I moved
into a new house - and a new stove.  The stove is
an electric with solid elements.  The stove
sucked with my brewpots.  This type of element
requires heavy gauge flat-bottomed pots to work
well.  I do not have heavy gauge flat-bottomed
brewpots.

Well, many folks on the hbd recommended buying a
propane burner.

A burner costs less then a heavy gauge
flat-bottomed brewpot.

I'm here to tell you ITS GREAT.  I bought a
'turkey cooker' system from Lowe's.  It takes a
little while to get used to NOT brewing in the
kitchen, but you get over it REAL fast.  It takes
less than 20 minutes to bring 5 gallons to a
boil, and things work even better if you heat
while you sparge.  The wort boils during the
entire sparge as you fill your pot!

So.

No advice on the stove, except don't use it.

With a burner you also get to enjoy the looks
from your neighbors who are trying to figure out
why it sounds like a jet engine is taking off in
your garage.

Matt in Cincinnati

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:45:22 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Gump reports

Regarding Danstar's "streamlining their line:"

"London is one more of the many yeasts dropped from the production line
in reaction to sales figures pointing to the need to maximize output of the
most popular products. In fact each year, up to ten of the wine yeasts are
dropped ...as their numbers are studied, and plans for each new year's
production runs are planned."

Hmmmmmm, frighteningly reminiscent of what happened with the commercial beer
market in this country!


Regarding "Servomyces:"

"ServoMyces, a new product from Lallemand will soon shake up the
nutrient addition market!
This dry yeast, specifically grown to assimilate zinc, an essential, and
often under-rated key to success of yeast growth is currently under testing
by a number of US and European breweries.... This active dry yeast is
designed to be added to the wort, 15/60 prior
to end of boil, in order to disrupt the cells, and release the nutrient to
the wort."


OK, so why should I go to all the trouble (and added expense) to add these
yeast to my wort boil instead of the cheaper inorganic ZnCl2 option which I
already use?? Sounds like another convoluted loophole to allow
Reinheitsgebot adherents to get around prohibitions on additives - If the Zn
is now inside yeast it is "natural."

 -Alan Meeker




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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:04:48 -0600 
From: "Marcoux, Eric P" <EPMarcoux at pbsj.com>
Subject: Out of C02

Hi everyone.  During my first batch of beer with my new draught system I ran
out
of C02 I ran out of gas about half way through the corny keg.  I wasn't able
to
refill for 3 days.  When I finally did get gas the beer was almost flat.
Can
it be re-force carbonated?  The carbonation seemed to pick up again after
more than a week but I was getting a lot of foam.  lesson = Don't run out of
gas.


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 12:46:04 -0600 
From: Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Beer tubes revisited

Mr. Sanders writes:

And while on deep thoughts, I should point out to all those so called
knowledgables that they are just plain wrong when they use the volume of a
cylinder to work out how much beer a beerline holds. Its time all you went
back to school. If you put your mind to it, its not a cyclinder at all. The
beer line is never perfectly straight, its coiled (Think about it people).
Ah the mind is frightening when the gears start working. 

First let me say that I never claimed to be a "knowledgable", just someone
who remembered the equation.  Next, let me refute your assertion that a
coiled tube is somehow different from a cylinder.  If you straighten your
tube out it is certainly cylinder.  Now if you put a bend in your tube what
happens to the tube?  The inside of the bend compresses and becomes shorter
while the outside of the bend stretches and becomes longer.  I don't know
for sure but I would guess that the amount of shortening equals the amount
of lengthening, creating a zero amount of change in the overall length and
volume.  Therefore a coiled beer line will hold close to, if not exactly,
the same amount as a perfectly straight one.  Or am I missing something
here?


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:58:20 +0100
From: "Bjorn Thegeby" <thegeby at attglobal.net>
Subject: 

I will be in Cincinnati Nov 15-18. Is there any homebrewer interested to
meet for a pint somewhere. I could bring along a few Belgian
beers..(Aahhhh)...
E-mail is fine.
Bjorn Thegeby
Waterloo
Belgium


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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:39:12 -0500 (EST)
From: kevin m mueller <kmmuellr at engin.umd.umich.edu>
Subject: thermo question

I've got a thermodynamics question for the collective engineers out there.

What are the relevant equations in determining the size of a heating
element in a RIMS system?  ie, for a known flow rate, and a given
electric heater (constant Q), how do you find out what the heat transfer
rate is?  Do you need to know what the inlet and outlet temps are, or just
one or none?  Do the dimensions of the element play any part, or does
saying that if the element is on there is constant Q take care of the
surface area of the element?

(Any other equations that may relate to a RIMS would be great too!)

Additionally, for the RIMS'ers, what flowrate (gpm) do you use when you're
recirculating, and what is the maximum that you can go without compacting
the grain bed.  

I've never brewed with a pump, but I'd guess that you'd want to be pumping
as fast as possible, right?

Personal e-mail is fine (save the bandwidth). kmmuellr at engin.umd.umich.edu

Thanks!

Kevin
Making a RIMS for my senior design!
Redford, MI



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Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 15:44:51 -0500
From: Nathan Matta <whatsa at MIT.EDU>
Subject: Relative Importance of various brewing factors

Howdy, gang.  I've been brewing for about 1.5 years now, and I believe I'm
getting a feel for the hobby.  Sadly, I've been having a couple problems,
and it seems to me that fixing one of them only exacerbates the others,
and I don't know enough yet to decide which evils to accept.  So, without
further ado:

Sunday morning I brewed a Winter Warmer recipe from BYO (I'm an extract
brewer still, planning to try all-grain this spring).  It's a 5 gallon 
recipe.  The
recipe called for boiling 1.5 gallons + extracts and topping that up in the
carboy.  I had always read that the more of the wort you boil, the better, so I
started with 5.5 gallons in my kettle.  I brew on a gas range.  During the boil
(90 minutes) I lost 28% of my liquid volume, down to 4 gallons!  At the same
time, I never really felt like a had a "rolling" boil.  It was more like a 
vigorous
simmer.  Also, I've read that hop utilization is affected by the amount of 
water
you're boiling with.  My questions, therefore, are fourfold.

1) Should I sacrifice boiled volume (ie. start with 1.5 - 3 gallons and top 
up in
       carboy) in order to achieve a nice, rolling boil?
2) Should I add enough heat to achieve a rolling boil even though I'm already
       evaporating more off than I want?
3) Should I pay attention to the amount of water in which a recipe boils its
       hops, or is that too minor to worry?

Evaporation is a function of surface area and temperature, right?  Should I get
a tall, skinny kettle to cut down on evaporation, or is there some crazy 
trick I
never noticed?  I used the 5/6 covered trick, so some of the evaporation even
condensed back into the kettle.  I'm stumped.  I can't figure out any way 
to fix
all of my problems at once.  Help!

Nathan
========================================
Nathan Matta
Fuzzy Beer Home Brewery
Randolph, MA, US



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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 22:50:34 +0100
From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at>
Subject: Re: ServoMyces

Hi all,

Rob Moline wrote in HBD#3471

> ServoMyces....
>      ServoMyces, a new product from Lallemand will soon shake up the
> nutrient addition market!

[big snip]

>      To quote the webpage of WhiteLabs, currently testing the
> product...called 'Viagra For Your Yeast!" on that page.....
> 
> "This could be the greatest asset to a brewers consistency since the
> development of pitchable yeast slurries."

These conclusions and the report on
http://www.yeastbank.com/np/newproducts3rd2000.htm
may sound like gross commercial exaggerations to promote a new product. 
But take it serious, I've got samples from the European distributor and 
had the opportunity to test ServoMyces for almost half a year now, it's 
all true! -- At least if you have a zinc problem like me -- and recent 
observations (some of which based on zinc-measurements) among local 
(home)brewers lead me to the opinion that I'm not alone!

It seems to me the product was developed and tested together with 
Weihenstephan. They wrote a report in German Brauwelt #45-46/99, p2158-
2160, titled "Zinc problem solved?" - and early this year I had the 
opportunity to discuss my fermentation problems with Dr. Clemens Forster 
from Weihenstephan. His diagnosis was clear: Zinc deficiency! - and I 
should try that ServoMyces zinc yeast, because their research has shown, 
that zinc "pre-digested" (metabolized) by yeast is superior to any other 
form of addition (and it goes with Reinheitsgebot).

So what were those problems (all of which are cured now):

1) Insufficient yeast growth and long fermentation.
Optimizations in yeast management (starter size, aeration) yielded only in 
shorter lags (6 hours) and rigorous starts but when the "easy sugars" were 
done, fermentation slowed down dramatically and almost stuck.

2) Lower than expected attenuation and / or late attenuation in the bottle 
(no infections detected, I had no bottle bombs, but over-carbonation was 
common, if I didn't account for "some" residual fermentables when priming).

3) Residual maltotriose. The sweetish "house-flavor" of my beers was a 
clear sign that fermentation was not finished (and maybe there was some 
residual diacetyl just above taste threshold, too). Now I get my beers as 
dry as I want them.

I had those problems for almost 2 years -- probably caused by a change in 
water supply (Zinc 0.08 mg/L) and the use of organic malt. My positive 
experience with ServoMyces is based on 7 batches and I also have given it 
away to friends for evaluation. I've access to an atomic absorption 
photometer and am about to make zinc analysis. So far it seems that with 
Zinc >0.2 mg/L in the water or -more important- in the resulting wort, the 
brewer has no problem, though he may see positive effects with ServoMyces. 
Problems arise **in any case** if the Zinc level drops below 0.15 mg/L.

Disclaimer: I'm in no way associated with Lallemand or their German 
representatives. I'm just very happy to have solved a big problem.

Allzeit gut Sud!

Hubert,
brewing in Salzburg
Austria








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Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 18:00:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: %Alcohol table, revamped

Greetings, I have rebuilt my %Alcohol table using some
of the formulas posted over the past couple of days.

    Gravity Degrees  %Alcohol    %Alcohol
    Points   Plato   by Volume   by Weight 
       5      1.28       .70         .52 
      10      2.56      1.32        1.05 
      15      3.81      1.10        1.58 
      20      5.06      2.67        2.12 
      25      6.31      3.36        2.66 
      30      7.55      4.04        3.21 
      35      8.78      4.74        3.76 
      40     10.00      5.44        4.32 
      45     11.21      6.15        4.88  
      50     12.42      6.86        5.45 
      55     13.62      7.58        6.02 
      60     14.81      8.31        6.60 
      65     16.00      9.04        7.18 
      70     17.18      9.78        7.77 
      75     18.35     10.53        8.36 
      80     19.51     11.29        8.96 
      85     20.67     12.05        9.56 
      90     21.82     12.82       10.17 
      95     22.96     13.59       10.79 
     100     24.10     14.38       11.41 
     105     25.23     15.17       12.04 
     110     26.35     15.97       12.67 
     115     27.46     16.77       13.31 
     120     28.57     17.58       13.96 
     125     29.67     18.41       14.61 
     130     30.77     19.24       15.27 
     135     31.85     20.07       15.93 
     140     32.94     20.92       16.60 
     145     34.02     21.78       17.28 
     150     35.09     22.64       17.97 
     155     36.15     23.51       18.66 
     160     37.21     24.39       19.36 
     165     38.26     25.28       20.06 
     170     39.31     26.18       20.78 
     175     40.35     27.09       21.50 
     180     41.38     28.00       22.22 
     185     42.41     28.93       22.96 
     190     43.43     29.86       23.70 
     195     44.44     30.81       24.45 
     200     45.45     31.77       25.21 

    Note: this assumes that the final gravity is 1.00,
    I know that this is rarely the case (especially for
    high gravity brews) but it provides a starting point,
    a "Base Chart" value, if you like.

    The following formulas were developed from those contained
    in recent posts to the HBD (Thanks to all for their input)
    These formula come with the "Big-Boy Warranty", if you choose
    to use them, then you are a "Big Boy". "Big Boy"'s are fully 
    capable of supporting and solving their own problems and assume
    all responsibility for their use.
    
    OG  = Original Gravity (measured prior to fermentation)
    FG  = Final Gravity    (measured at end of fermentation)
    %AV = % Alcohol by Volume
    %AW = % Alcohol by Weight
    P   = Degrees Plato

    %AV = (OG-FG)*1000/(7.616-((OG-1)*6.6))
    %AW = %AV / 1.256
    P   = ((SG-1)*1000)/(3.9 + ((SG-1)*2.5))


To understand the margin of error let's consider three scenarios:

Scenario #1
A pale ale with a SG=1.050 and a FG=1.10, the formula yields:
     %AV = 40 / (7.616 - (.050*6.6)) = 5.49% 
>From the Base Chart above a ferment of 40 points shows 5.44%
for an error of .05%AV

Scenario #2
A strong beer with a SG=1.80 and a FG=1.20, the formula yields:
     %AV = 60 / (7.616 - (.080*6.6)) = 8.47% 
>From the Base Chart above a ferment of 60 points shows 8.31%
for an error of .16%AV

Scenario #3
A huge barley wine with a SG=1.120 and a FG=1.30, the formula yields:
     $AV = 80 / (7.616 - (.120*6.6)) = 11.72% 
>From the Base Chart above a ferment of 80 points shows 11.29%
for an error of .43%AV

>From the above scenarios I feel that the "Base Chart" provides
a very close estimate to percent alcohol, the errors fall well
within the basic margin of errors introduced by our basic measurement
methods: hydrometer reading, temperature corrections, failing eyesight
(too many homebrews, too much lead solder ;^) etc.

It isn't exactly rocket science but it should give a fairly close 
estimate.  As always, I hope this helps!

 

Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen) 
Commerce, Michigan    Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild
(Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian)



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---