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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Good beer bars in Amsterdam ("Fred Waltman")
  Headless Beer (Ant Hayes)
  Nitrogen Dispensing (Jim & Patti Hust)
  Re: Natural Gas Burners (Art Tyszka)
  King of beers (Rod Prather)
  high output gas burners (The Freemans)
  Cornies for secondaries ("D. Schultz")
  Nitrogen Dispensing/CO2 Tank Pressures ("Richard Pass")


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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:18:31 -0500
From: dave at freshops.com

Subject: dirtclod brown ale

As we were breaking 200 pound bales of whole hops into smaller 
packages the other day, we pulled a 2 oz. dirtclod out of the bale. 
That reminded me of the dried out chicken leg we found in a bale a 
few years ago. Metal picker parts, nuts and bolts, cigarette butts, 
hop twine, all part of life during hop harvest that occasionally end 
up in the final product. At least you can see what you've got with 
whole hops. Pellets?

Dave Wills
Freshops



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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:16:58 -0800
From: "Fred Waltman" <fwaltman at mediaone.net>
Subject: Good beer bars in Amsterdam

John asks about Amsterdam beer bars:

The best resource is a little booklet by Hugh Shipman called something like
"The Serious Beer Drinkers Guide to Amsterdam." It has great maps and
descriptions and is available for 10-12 Guilders at all of these places.

(Please excuse any spelling errors -- I have enough problems with spelling
in English, let alone Dutch)

The best place is In de Wildeman (5 Kolksteeg, 638-2348). It is a bit hard
to find. Kolksteeg is a little alley running between Nieuwendijk and
Nieuwezijds
Voorburgwal (which both run parallel to the Damrak) There are many of these
little alleys -- on the N.V. side there is a Sofitel (IIRC) and on the
Niewendijk
side there is a clothing store called "Star <something-or-other>."  Five to
ten
minute walk from the Centraal Stations. Robin (one of the bartenders there)
knows
more about Belgian & Dutch beer and Scotch Whiskey than anybody I know.

Also, (in no particular order...)

Cafe Belgique (2 Gravenstraat, 625-1974). This is another one of the little
alleys,
farther up than Wildeman, closer to Dam Square. It stays open to like 4am,
so good
for a very late nightcap.

Het Elfde Gebod (5 Zeedijk, 622-3577). This basically is around back of the
big hotel
Golden Tulip Barbizon Palace.

Maximillians (6 Kloveniers Burgwal, 626-6280). Amsterdam's only brewpub. If
you keep
following Zeedijk until it empties out into a square, then turn right,
you'll come
to it in a block or so. Along the way you pass t'Loosje which sometimes had
interesting
beer as well.

Gollem (4 Raamsteeg, 626-6645) is very tiny but worth a visit. Raamsteeg is
another
alley, between the Single and Spuistraat, on the other side of Dam Square
from the
Centraal Station.

Beiaard (30 Spui, 622-5110) is just down the street from Gollem.

Also there is a relatively new place t'Arendtsnest that serves only Dutch
beers,
mainly micros, but some of the more interesting offerings from the Dutch
majors.
I beleive it is at 90 Herengracht (but I may not be remembering that
correctly)
but they know it well at the Wildeman and I'm sure the other places.

Also, the IJ Brewery has a tap room east of the Centraal Station (bus #7?)
in
a windmill.

Be warned that many places don't open until 4pm or later and some have weird
days off (Het Elfde Gebod is closed Tues and Wed, for example).

Any other questions, please feel free to email me.

Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply (LA Area)
fred at brewsupply.com  *or*  fred at LABeer.com



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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:38:33 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Headless Beer

Des Egan wrote regarding extract beer, 

"My last two batches have only retained a foaming head for about 20 seconds 
after pouring."

I brewed extract for some 8 years and never managed to get a good head on my
beer without cheating and using  "heading liquid" sold by the local homebrew
store, or by partial mash with pale malt. My full mash beers display the
sort of head that I am after, so I am reasonably sure that the process of
making malt extract does something to reduce head retention.

Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa


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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:47:21 -0600
From: Jim & Patti Hust <ph01731 at navix.net>
Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing


Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:59:53 -0500
From: "Art Tyszka" <art at loyalshepherd.com>
Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing

I gave into my "Guinness Envy" and bought the necessary items to start
dispensing my stouts this way.  Nitrogen tank with 80/20 mix, regulator
and
a stout faucet from our list's generous sponsor.  Hooked everything up
to a
previously tapped keg, purged the C02 and was disappointed to get a pint

full of foam and an almost non-existent cascade.

So what am I doing wrong?  I've tried pressure everywhere from 5 - 25
and
still get straight foam.  Do I need to remove the majority of C02 from
the
beer?  The faucet has an adjustment that doesn't seem to do much of
anything
except send a 6" geyser of stout out the top when turned too far in one
direction.


Art Tyszka
Chesterfield, MI
Loyal Shepherd Brewing Co

Art-----
I did the nitrogen push for my stout also.  Got similar results for a
while.  I finally figured out that there was too much nitro and not
enough CO2.  I charged my keg with CO2, then hooked up the nitrogen, set
it at 20-30 lbs., you have to experiment, and by the time my keg was
dry---------I was getting really good pours!
I will surely have better luck with the next stout I brew.  Not too bad,
since I get to drink all the mistakes.



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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:21:57 -0500
From: Art Tyszka <atyszka at mail.cbf.com>
Subject: Re: Natural Gas Burners

>Has anyone seen an economically priced burner that using natural gas will
>put out over 150,000 btu?

Beer3 has a pretty serious looking ring burner that they say puts out
200,000 btu with natural gas.  By the looks of the burner I believe them.
It doesn't come with any sort of stand though, it's just the ring.  I think
the only way to find it on their site is to do a search on "burner".  Usual
disclaimers apply.

http://www.morebeer.com


- -- 
Art Tyszka
Loyal Shepherd Brewing Co.
http://www.loyalshepherd.com



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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:20:32 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: King of beers

Jim Steinbrunner, Loyal Serf brought us King Gambrinus...

I was thinking, Bush or Gore, Bush or Gore...  Sounds like a choice between and
X rated movie and a slasher flick.
- -- 
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana


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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:58:03 -0600
From: The Freemans <potsus at Bellsouth.net>
Subject: high output gas burners

High output gas burners ain't cheap.  The only ones I have come in
contact with are those which use "high pressure" natural gas at 1-2
pounds rather than the more normal 6-8 water column inches found in
residential areas.  These burners incorporate a blower to supply
additional oxygen for the higher input of natural.  Burners of this type
can be found with up to several million btus output.

Most of this type also must incorporate mandatory safety controls to
keep the burner going (as in a pilot) and thermocouples which shut the
gas off if the flame goes out for some reason.

I'm sure that they are out there, but the jump from the more normal
35,000 - 75,000 btu low pressure naturally asperated natural gas burners
to the really high output type is significant and expensive.

I suggest that if you are determined to go to natural that you look at
the Precision Brewing Supply page (NAYY) and in particular at the
Italian "heavy duty stove" rated at 60,000 btu.  This can be converted
to natural and will still give around 35,000 btu.  This is not the
rocket you were looking for, but I have used one on "the perfesser" with
good results as a boiler burner.

http://www.mirageport.com/potsus/newburner1.jpg
http://www.pbsbeer.com/pbs/pbscat.html

Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
KP Brewery - home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL



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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:54:53 -0800
From: "D. Schultz" <d2schultz at qwest.net>
Subject: Cornies for secondaries

I'll add a few tid bits on using a corny for a secondary:

If you rack to the Corny after the Krausen falls, an airlock is not
necessary. What little CO2 production you get can be easily bled off using
the popette (as another poster noted). Personally, I don't bother with
releasing the pressure as it just makes carbonating that much easier. Does
CO2 pressure build up affect the yeast performance?

For dry hopping, I picked up a sure screen which I place over the dip tube
to prevent any hops from getting sucked up through the dip tube. Cutting
1/2" off of the end of the dip tube keeps any yeast to the first glass or
so.

The Corny works great for filtering as it can be pressurized in order to
force the beer through the filter to remove particulates.

Burp,
 -Dan






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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:44:37 +1100
From: "Richard Pass" <richard.pass at anu.edu.au>
Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing/CO2 Tank Pressures

Art Tyszka wrote:

<<I gave into my "Guinness Envy" and bought the necessary items to start
dispensing my stouts this way.  Nitrogen tank with 80/20 mix, regulator and
a stout faucet from our list's generous sponsor.  Hooked everything up to a
previously tapped keg, purged the C02 and was disappointed to get a pint
full of foam and an almost non-existent cascade.

So what am I doing wrong?  I've tried pressure everywhere from 5 - 25 and
still get straight foam.  Do I need to remove the majority of C02 from the
beer?  The faucet has an adjustment that doesn't seem to do much of anything
except send a 6" geyser of stout out the top when turned too far in one
direction.>>

Art, I'm sorry to disappoint but the 'cascade' you envy is caused by
nitrogen previously dissolved in the beer coming out due to the shear
stresses caused as it is forced through the tiny holes in the stainless disk
in the tap head.  You'll have to dissolve the nitrogen into the _flat_ beer
first.  Excess CO2 is definitely not wanted in solution (and is what is
causing the foaming in your previously carbonated stout) , although small
amounts are tolerable. Your 80/20 multimix may be OK although straight
nitrogen is best in my experience.  Nitrogen is much harder (at least 5x as
hard) to dissolve in beer than CO2 but it will go in given sufficient top
pressure and time.  Try 400 kpa (45 psi) on beer at 0 deg C for 24 hours.
Then try dispensing with 150 kpa top pressure through your tap.  If you're
still not getting the desired effect give it another 24 hours at 400 kpa and
so on.

HTH

 > Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:19:51 -0800
 > From: "Scott" <Windsurf at bossig.com>
 > Subject: Co2 tank pressures
 >
 > I have just received a 10 lb tank exchange from the welding company.
 > However, the tank pressure read 500 lbs.  Is this really a full tank?  I
 > know the tank pressure is not exact, and varies according to standard
 > temperature and barometric pressure.  However, I deal with O2 e-cylinders
 > all the time, and a new tank usually registers 2000 psi.  Did they give
me a
 > low tank?  Our outside temperature is near freezing now, if this helps.

Scott,
the main difference between CO2 and O2 tanks is that CO2 is mainly liquid
(like lpg cylinders) in the tank and O2 is gas.  The pressure in a CO2 tanks
is actually the vapour pressure at whatever temperature the tank is and will
not drop noticeably until all the CO2 has evaporated into the head space in
the tank during normal usage.

As another subscriber noted, weighing is a much better method of assessing
contents of CO2 tanks.

Cheers,
Richard Pass
Canberra



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