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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Nitrogen Dispensing ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  chloramine & off-flavors ("Richard & Laura")
  More good beer pubs in Amsterdam (Mark van Bommel)
  beer in Amsterdam (Holland) (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Over pitching, Definition and effects? (Tony Barnsley)
  Heating my fridge (daniels)
  natural gas burner (The Freemans)
  Beer in D.C. ("H. Dowda")
  Natural gas burners ("Terry White")
  more dried yeast questions for Jethro and everyone else... (Robin Griller)
  Nitro Pours (Chris Swersey)
  CO2 Purchase (SGWESST)
  Homebrew Supply Shops in the Lexington, KY area? ("Bill Howard")
  Re: dirtclod (ALABREW)
  Recipe calculator (Hop_Head)
  Stuck stout (Edward Doernberg)


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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:39:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing

Hiya, 

Lotsa talk about nitro pour and foam... 

Try carbing your beer  at  1.0-1.2 volumes with Co2 then serve with your
nitro mix  at  30-40psi. Keep your serving temps from 38-42f. 

I bet you will see the difference and pour successful pint one after
another. 

Also try wearing som plaid while you are pouring the brew!

C'ya!

 -Scott

=====
Scott Braker-Abene
Comark Inc.
webmaster at comark.com <mailto:webmaster at comark.com>
http://www.comark.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:49:33 -0700
From: "Richard & Laura" <dromedary at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: chloramine & off-flavors

Greetings all,

Can anyone provide a detailed description of the off-flavor(s) produced by
brewing with water that has been "sanitized" by chloramine?

My most recent batch of beer was brewed with unfiltered, unboiled municipal
tap water, and has an unpleasant "corn" off-flavor that becomes quite
noticeable as the beer warms to room temperature. And, there is a metallic,
almost sour aftertaste.

This was an extract batch and I made up the last 2 gallons in the primary
with straight tap water.

It has been suggested that the beer suffers from chloramine contamination.
My next-door neighbor's most recent beer--made from the exact same kit just
2 weeks before mine--suffered similarly. He also used straight tap water.
It's possible we both had bacterial infections, but probably unlikely. We've
never had that problem before and are rather anal about sanitation.

The local water utility did tell me that they are now drawing our water from
the Rio Grande river (a bi-national environmental atrocity) year
round, instead of summer only. The river water must be heavily treated,
unlike the aquifer water that was pumped in the past. So I give the
chloramine theory tentative credence. I never had this off-flavor in
previous years, and have always used the tap water.

Sad to dump a batch, but I'm filtering the tap water now. I know I should
have been filtering all along.

Richard Dulany




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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:39:41 +0100 (CET)
From: Mark van Bommel <markbom at xs4all.nl>
Subject: More good beer pubs in Amsterdam

In response to John's question and Fred's reply on good pubs in Amsterdam:

You can find maps of Amsterdam at:
http://www.amsterdam.nl/e_index.html
Just type in the street and house number and there you go.

Fred basically lists every pub I would recommend. I have some additions:

Brewery 't IJ is well worth a visit. It's not inside the wind mill but
next to it, (5 Funenkade, open 15-20 h wednesday-sunday, phone 622 8325). 
You can get there with bus 22 from the Central station in about 10 
minutes, it's stops right in front of the brewery. From the Leidseplein
you can get there with tram 10.
I pretty much live there on weekends. Some advice: get there early, the 
place gets very busy after five p.m.

In de Wildeman is a 'must see'pub, pretty expensive, but they really know
their stuff. It's located in an old distillery, really nice. No music, so
you can hear yourself drink ;-)

The Maximiliaan brewpub also serves OK food. dutch website 
http://www.maximiliaan.nl/

The Dutch Beer pub 't Arendsnest is indeed at Herengracht 90 (open Tuesday
 -Friday from 16.00-01.00, Saterday 14.00-02.00, Sunday 14.00-22.00, dutch 
website:  http://www.arendsnest.nl/ phone 421 2057)

I don't like the Beiaard very much, they're not was I call beer lovers 
anymore.

Another suggestion is the Belgian Beer Pub De Zotte, Raamstraat 29 (no, 
that's not that close to Raamsteeg, but near the Leidseplein) phone 626 8694.
Loud music but an excellent collections of Belgian beers. Good alternative to 
Gollem when that's too crowded.

Feel to e-mail me privately if you want more info.

And above all: have fun!

Mark van Bommel
markbom at xs4all.nl


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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:14:56 +0100
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: beer in Amsterdam (Holland)

Hi,

Fred Waltman mentioned a lot of nice places to try some beer (actually the
telephone book mentions 751 cafe's).
I only can add O'Reilly's Irish Pub. Paleisstraat 103. tel. 6249498.
It's very close to a beershop (Bierkoning, Paleisstraat 125). So you can buy
to take home.
Another beershop is in Tweede Hugo de Grootstraat 3 tel.6843127
The shop for homebrewing supplies is Rob van Gelder, Van Woustraat 237 tel.
6752616
When you want to see another (small) brewery not far from Amsterdam: brewery
De Schans, Schans 17 in Uithoorn tel. 0297522106. Next to their beershop.

Greetings from Holland (Europe),
Hans Aikema
http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/



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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:23:27 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Over pitching, Definition and effects?

Hi all 

Here's a question that was asked on the UK Brewing Group recently. I've
found loads of stuff on what is a good / minimal pitching rate, but not very
much on what happens when (if) you Over pitch, so here you go brew gurus

- -------

What defines over pitching?  

Too much yeast compared to the amount of what in the wort?  

How do I increase the amount of xyz in the wort?

And what are the effects?

- --

Wassail!

The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361)
Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK

UK HOMEBREW - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK
              Managed by home brewers for home brewers


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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:32:27 -0500
From: daniels at cerias.purdue.edu
Subject: Heating my fridge

I just got my kegging/lagering fridge set up in my garage, but
thanks to an early appearance by old man winter, the temperature
in the fridge is heading down below freezing.  

I've thought of several approaches here, but I really am looking for
something cheap and off the shelf. But, I can do it myself if necessary.

1. Rig it so the internal light bulb is always on or somehow
thermostatically controlled. 
or
2. Electrim immersible heaters: This is a neat idea, just put it
in a bucket of H20 in the fridge...problem is that I haven't
found any info on the range of the thermostat on these. 
Can you set them at 35 deg F??? How many amps do they use on 110V?

Other ideas?

Thanks,
Tom



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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:41:04 -0600
From: The Freemans <potsus at Bellsouth.net>
Subject: natural gas burner

The B3 natural gas burner rated at 200,000 btu is one which is designed
primarily as a Chinese restaurant wok burner.  Each of the little brass
tubes is an individual burner - complete unto itself. It is plumbed in
with 1/2 or 3/4 inch galvanized pipe and still requires high pressure
gas in the range of 1-2 PSI. It will give less than optimal performance
on the usual residential gas pressure and flow rates.

http://www.morebeer.com/images/h210.jpg

Suffice it to say "been there and tried that" and in as much as the
local gas supplier wanted some $1500 to run high pressure to my home I
let it go.

BTW one way to determine what pressure gas you have available is to look
at the meter.  A red face usually denotes high pressure whaile a white
face means the lower 6-8 WCI.

Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
KP Brewery - home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL



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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 07:02:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Beer in D.C.

Are there any good brewpubs in the Washington, DC
area? Will be in the NW/Georgetown area.  No car, near
metro.

Thanks.

Harold


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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:58:38 -0800
From: "Terry White" <terry at brewfellows.com>
Subject: Natural gas burners

I have a 1bbl system and use a Wok burner.  These are the burners used in
Chinese restaurants to fire the woks.  You can get them from just about any
restaurant supply store and they run $75 - $90.  It is just a cast Iron ring
with 15 or 20 brass gas jets.  The guy who sold it to me said it would go to
600,000 btus.  I know this sounds high but it gets 35 gallons of wort to a
rolling boil in 20 - 25 minutes and I never turn up all the way. It is ONLY
a burner and I had to build a stand for it.  My kettle has legs so I built a
small frame out of black pipe, tees and elbows.

Hope this helps
Terry

Terry White
Brewfellows Brewing Supplies
800-840-BREW (2739)



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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:35:08 -0500
From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca>
Subject: more dried yeast questions for Jethro and everyone else...

Hi all,

My post on dried yeast got caught in the middle of the server switch and
no one commented, so it is included in this email below. But, since then
another question has occurred to me: when I use  liquid yeasts, my fg's
are what I expect; when I use dried yeasts, they always stop at much
higher fg's than expected. I almost always seem to get around 67% AA from
dried yeasts, including Cooper's, Danstar London, for example. The only
exceptions I can think of  are the two times I used Safale and once using
Danstar Windsor (which I thought was supposed to be less attenuative than
the London). I don't  change my aeration techniques when using dried
yeasts; I normally pitch two packages of the  Danstar yeasts, when using
them. Any suggestions?

Robin and see below |
                    |
                    \/
Hi all,

Perhaps Jethro can answer a question that has confused me. I usually use
liquid yeasts, but on occasion use dry. I find that dry yeasts are much
more susceptible to low temperature than liquid, especially at the start
of fermentation. Here's what I do and what happens when I use dried yeasts
(primarily lallemand, but I've also had this happen with Cooper's):

 -rehydrate for 15 minutes;
 -pitch into wort between 68-72F;
 -put in basement: ambient temp 64-68;

results:
 -yeast pancake forms on top of wort after a number of hours and then just
sits there for ages; Often I have to rouse the yeast to get it going after
that;

Now, my basement is cool, *but* 

(1) it is within the temperature range given for these yeasts (i.e. I have
a bitter fermenting with the Lallemand Manchester right now; basement
tempt is 64--the range for Manchester given is 64-70. It did the pancake
and sit there thing, while (split batch) the part fermenting on yeast
recovered from a bottle of Coniston Bluebird started up nicely at same
temp);

(2) I've only ever once had this happen with a liquid yeast (White Labs'
Burton, which has a high bottom end temp IIRC) and seems to be associated
with temps (if I move to slightly warmer spot they go). Do beers fermented
with dried yeasts need to be started off in 'too' warm locations?

thanks for any help or suggestions,

Robin




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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:24:48 -0700
From: Chris Swersey <cswersey at salmoninternet.com>
Subject: Nitro Pours

Art Tyszka writes:

I gave into my "Guinness Envy" and bought the necessary items to start
dispensing my stouts this way.  Nitrogen tank with 80/20 mix, regulator
and
a stout faucet from our list's generous sponsor.  Hooked everything up
to a
previously tapped keg, purged the C02 and was disappointed to get a pint

full of foam and an almost non-existent cascade.

So what am I doing wrong?  I've tried pressure everywhere from 5 - 25
and
still get straight foam.  Do I need to remove the majority of C02 from
the
beer?  The faucet has an adjustment that doesn't seem to do much of
anything
except send a 6" geyser of stout out the top when turned too far in one
direction.

Art, Guinness specifies around 1.3 volumes of CO2 in their nitro beer,
along with around 40-45 ppm dissolved N2. Your previously tapped keg of
beer, which I assume was being pushed with CO2 for enough time to come
to equilibrium, probably has 2.2-2.5 volumes of CO2 in the beer liquid.
You are not doing anything wrong, you either need to wait a long time to
"fix" this keg of beer to reduce the amount of CO2 in the liquid, or you
simply need to dispense the rest of it through a regular tap, and then
start with a fresh one (I recommend the latter to keep your frustration
level to a minimum).

The amount of CO2 in the beer will determine the foam volume you get
through a restrictor plate style tap, while the amount of N2 will
determine foam stability. Too much CO2 means too much foam. Not enough
N2 means the bubbles will be too large (not those tiny gorgeous ones you
can barely see in a Guinness head) and will pop relatively fast.

Starting with a fresh keg of Guinness, I would put between 45 and 50 PSI
using your 80% N2/20%CO2 mix, depending on your refrigerator temp. At
40deg F, you could go as high as 53-55 psi (no higher). At 35 deg., you
should be at around 45-47 psi (no higher). These pressures are necessary
to do two things. One, they maintain the correct partial pressure of CO2
in the headspace necessary to keep 1.25 -1.3 volumes of CO2 in the beer.
Two, elevated pressure like this keeps the N2 that is dissolved in the
beer from flashing off.

Nitrogen is about 1/1000 as soluble in beer as is CO2. It is hard to get
it in there in the first place. Once it is in there, it wants to come
out, very badly. If you let the pressure drop too low (say much below 20
psi), rest assured enough N2 will flash off the beer to dramatically
effect head retention. If you had a little window that allowed you to
look into the keg, you would not even see any foaming when this occurs.
Richard Pass posted a similar comment, although the N2 is far less
soluble than even he mentions. Keep that pressure up there. Over time
the beer gas pressure will equilibrate with that in the headspace.

Alternatively, starting with a fresh cornie of homebrew, simply put
45-50 psi on it using your 80/20 blend, and then shake it for a few
minutes, every day, for a week or more. Of course you can dispense
during this time as well, to check "flavor development", and you should.
You will notice that over time, the head will become more and more
similar to the one on your Guinness.

Last Art, from your post I gather that you may be operating in a retail
setting. If there is any chance that you may attempt this on any sort of
tank of beer, I have to recommend that you strictly follow the tank
manufacturers pressure limits. 99% of the tanks out there are not rated
for pressures this high. Kegs are fine. But if you want to use a grundy,
or even an inward opening manyway bright tank recently made, I recommend
not doint this. I have personally blown the lid off a grundy at 9 PSI
(screw clamp failed), and have seen another large bright tank full of
beer dance across the production area floor when it was over
pressurized.

Best of Luck,

Chris Swersey
JCS Consulting
Brewlab N. America



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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 13:21:58 EST
From: SGWESST at aol.com
Subject: CO2 Purchase

I have been buying refilled co2 from a local beer keg house. They  hook up 
the tank to their co2 tank for a minute or so. Am I getting maximum CO at  for 
my money? 
Is there a different way to obtain  refilled tank?
Steve


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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:40:31 -0500
From: "Bill Howard" <wbhoward at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Homebrew Supply Shops in the Lexington, KY area?

I will be relocating to Lexington, Kentucky at the end of the year.  If =
anyone can recommend a homebrew supplier or any brewpubs in the area, =
I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Bill Howard




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Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:19:05 -0600
From: ALABREW <alabrew at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: dirtclod

Dave from Freshops wrote:

Metal picker parts, nuts and bolts, cigarette butts, 
hop twine, all part of life during hop harvest that occasionally end 
up in the final product. At least you can see what you've got with 
whole hops. Pellets?

I would suspect that the pellet makers take great care to remove all
this junk before the hops go into their expensive machines.
- -- 
Kim and Sun Ae Thomson
ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies
8916 A Parkway East
Birmingham, AL 35206
(205) 833-1716
http://www.mindspring.com/~alabrew
mailto:alabrew at mindspring.com
Beer and Wine Making Ingredients and Supplies



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Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:26:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Hop_Head at webtv.net
Subject: Recipe calculator

What happened to the recipe calculator on the brewery.org website? I
have several recipies posted there and can not access it.



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Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:30:09 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au>
Subject: Stuck stout


Stuck stout

My latest batch of stout has stoped at 1.030 having stated at 1.070. I cant
resite the entire recipe as the lap-top I hold my recipes on fell of a char
today and is not currently functional. In the 30L ther was 

1Kg of raw barley 
500g of rolled oats 
1.5 kg roast barley 
500g crystal 
400g chocolate malt and 
7 kg of pale

 Or there about

Fermented 1/2 with WL 002 and 1/2 with WL 005

If memory serves the mash temp was 69C and everything worked well

I pitched onto yeast cakes from a bitter.

The thing that gets me is it only stated a week ago and when I gave the
buckets a god sloshing (without opening to admit O2) there wasn't the usual
rush of airlock activity.

Do you think it could have finished this high. Do you think it will go down.
Do you think my hydrometer is stuffed (tap water is ~1.000) I tasted the
sample and time to age it will taste quite good. 

I was aiming for a high fg but this is observed.

Edward






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