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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
calories in beer (ensmingr)
Keg Refrigerator (Mike Lemons)
Measuring Acid Additions (Ant Hayes)
Re: Hops growing in South ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
Ale/Lager yeast differentiation ("Louis K. Bonham")
Calories in beer (Randy Ricchi)
Dry yeasts ("Drew Avis")
Pub Book? ("H. Dowda")
tygon tubing source (Rob Dewhirst)
RE: Will the real calorie count please stand up? (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
sanitary tube fittings, 1/2" size? (Rob Dewhirst)
Re: saflager dry yeast (Jeff Renner)
Re: Rice in CAP/ CACA (Jeff Renner)
Re: Heating without Scorching (was: Re: Jeff's CAP/Cream Ale (Jeff Renner)
keg cooler at Home Depot (Ed Jones)
Wyeast XL packs ("Foster Jason")
FW: visit to Ulm (Brian Lundeen)
hops and things lupuvorous ("Sean Richens")
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Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:09:35 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: calories in beer
In HBD 3672 ( http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3672.html ),
several HBDer's noted different formulas give different
results when estimating calories in beer.
My own estimates are based on a formula of the American
Society for Brewing Chemists as given in their 1992 book,
"Methods of Analysis of the ASBC". As shown on my web page (
http://hbd.org/ensmingr/ ), I compared measured calories and
estimated calories (using the ASBC equations) for numerous
beers and found a pretty good match. However, at least for
my limited sample, the formulas seemed to slightly
underestimate calories. See the figure referenced at the
bottom of the top frame on my web site.
Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:29:55 -0700
From: Mike Lemons <ndcent at hotmail.com>
Subject: Keg Refrigerator
I just bought a 4.4 cubic foot refrigerator. That is refrigerator code
for "Big enough for one Cornelius keg and tantalizing close to being big
enough for several."
I bought it from a Home Depot in California for $148. Following some
instructions from an old HBD (2710#18), I bent down the
evaporator/freezer in order to get enough height for a ball lock keg.
This was quite easy with this model (GoldStar GR-151SPF). Now, the only
thing that is holding me back is the molding inside the door. I removed
the screws holding it in with the idea of replacing it with a piece of
Plexiglas of the same size. The molding refuses to budge! It seems to be
filled with some kind of self-hardening foam that has cemented it in
place. Any suggestions on how to get rid of the shelves?
The floor of the refrigerator has the typical step in back to hold the
compressor. The low area in front seems to be a half an inch too narrow
to place a second keg side by side with the first. The step in back is
large enough to hold one pin lock keg, but not if it has quick
disconnects attached to it. Has anyone seen quick disconnects that are a
shorter, low-height design that do not rise above the keg handles?
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:57:43 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Measuring Acid Additions
I found Wayne Aldrich's post on mash and wort acidification interesting.
Its always nice to know why what you do works. One suggestion I'd like
to make is to use a syringe for acid additions rather than a teaspoon.
It gives far greater accuracy and is less likely to result in messing
acid on something (such as yourself).
Makes me wonder what markings an imperial syringe has. Ours measure
millilitres (cubic centimetres).
Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 04:58:42 -0400
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: Re: Hops growing in South
Thanks for the note, Steven. The consensus seems to be to trim back only
the junk
off the mound, at least at first, & let the stuff off the main vine (the
"bines"? ) do
as they will. Jay Reeves of Huntsville AL suggested letting even
the mound shoots grow later in the summer for looks. I haven't had too many
of those
sprout up lately, but I suspect in a few years the roots will spread and
that will be more
of an issue.
It will be interesting to see how your experiment goes.
>
> On the other hand, my Cascades are 6" from the roof of the second level.
I'm
> not sure if I should nip it when it tops the roof and force it to put
enerby
> in the shoots or not. So, I'm going to train one vine and trim the other
to
> see how they compare.
>
> Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com
> Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 05:52:38 -0500
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at hypercon.com>
Subject: Ale/Lager yeast differentiation
Newly-crowned AHA Homebrewer of the Year Steve Jones (congrats!) asks
about a way to differentiate between lager yeast and ale yeasts.
Leaving aside the hardcore techniques like DNA analysis, there are two
fairly easy ways, both of which have been related to me by yeast
researcher and longtime homebrewer Rodney Morris.
The first is giant colony morphology. Essentially, you plate out a few
individual cells onto a special media (I believe Wyeast now sells
prepared plates of this), and let the colonies grow for two or three
weeks until they are 1-2cm or larger. Giant lager yeast colonies will
look different from ale yeasts. See Rodney's BT article on this for
more details and photos . . . fortunately, it's available online at:
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.3/morris.html
Rodney also told me about a much quicker, simplier test a couple of
years ago. This test relies on the fact that lager yeast can ferment
raffinose, while ale yeast cannot. Simply make up about 150ml of a 5%
solution of raffinose plus a bit of yeast nutrient (e.g., yeast extract
plus peptone), sterilize (boil, autoclave, 0.22um filter, gamma
irradiate, or whatever), aseptically innoculate with your unknown yeast,
seal with foil and let this ferment warm (80-90F) for a few days (on a
stir plate if possible). Check the gravity. If it is around 1.005 or
lower, you've got lager yeast. If it's significantly higher, it's ale
yeast.
All the best -- Louis K. Bonham
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:01:26 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Calories in beer
I remember seeing a calorie chart in Zymurgy quite awhile back. One
thing I noticed was that two beers with the same starting gravity could
gravities.
This is puzzling to me. Since energy can be neither created nor
destroyed, and since the original gravity is the same for both beers
(same potential energy), you would (or at least I would) think that they
would have the same calorie content, regardless of ending gravity. A
lower final gravity would mean more calories from alcohol and less from
unfermented sugars & dextrins, and vice-versa.
Can anyone explain why this is not the case?
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:10:21
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Dry yeasts
Brewers: with the recent thread on dry lager yeasts, I thought I'd throw in
my 2 cents (3.08 cents Canadian). While I have't yet had a chance to brew
with the Saflager 23 I recently ordered from Paddock Wood, I have used an
interesting dry lager yeast given to me by a local brewpub called
"Mauribrew" (or something like that). It's a dry lager yeast from the land
of milk and wombats, and I was very happy with the results. Perhaps not as
clean as Saflager 23 reportedly is, but it was clean enough for a generic
malty dunkle at 55F.
However, what has made me even happier than the prospect of decent dry lager
yeasts is the "discovery" of a very nice dry weizen yeast. Not being able
to brew all-grain in the past few months, I've turned to the Brewhouse kits,
and recently made their wheat beer. It contains an 11gr silver pack
labelled simply "Safbrew T-58", and it makes a very authentic tasting hefe -
lots of bannana and clove. I haven't seen it available in retail around
here, but my favourite mail-order shop informs me it is availble through
them.
Cheers!
Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 06:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pub Book?
I had a copy of a book that listed pubs, food, beers
available. It definitely covered Britian and may have
covered Europe and or the U.S. Left it in the White
Horse in London (5 cask ales overpowered me) and want
another copy. I am pretty sure pubs in Europe were
included. Any help appreciated. Checked Jackson and
Protz on Amazon and did not see a book that remined me
of it.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:17:30 -0500
From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu>
Subject: tygon tubing source
It's true there aren't cheap places to purchase tygon tubing.
I watched the auctions for a while at labx.com to get R-3603. This was the
cheapest I could find it in quantity. I think I got 50 ft for $50-$60 a
year or so ago.
this is something I wish movingbrews.com would stock regularly.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:13:42 -0400
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Will the real calorie count please stand up?
Greetings, all!
WARNING - THERE IS SCIENCE & MATH INVOLVED IN THIS POST - ALL THOSE WHO ARE
ALLERGIC TO THIS MUST PAGE DOWN NOW!! I WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY
DETRIMENTAL EFFECTS TO YOUR PERSON DUE TO EXPOSURE TO THIS POST!! ;^)
Since there is some question as to the validity of the various methods of
determining the calorie content of 12 oz of beer based on its OG and FG, I
want to give the background information on the development of the calculator
at http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/tools/ac.htm. It is not based on
some handwaving or other such stuff but in fact has formulas and processes
derived by a professional brewer as its basis. I cannot vouch for the
validity of either the formulas or the derivation of the process - only that
my calculator does produce the same results as the spreadsheet.
The calculator was derived from an Excel spreadsheet written by Steven Klump
of Stroh's Brewery. Here is a direct quote from the spreadsheet: "Equations
were devised by Mr. James Hackbarth of the Stroh Brewery Company and this
spreadsheet has been prepared with his permission-Stephen Klump Stroh
Brewery Co. 22-Mar-99"
I got this spreadsheet from the Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild website, and used
the equations to create the Javascript calculator. I tested several OG & FG
combinations during the development of this and the results all matched the
results using the spreadsheet.
Here are the mechanisms and calculations of how it works.
- -------------begin-------------------
Definitions:
Values entered by user:
OG_sg = Original Gravity (in specific gravity) of your brew
RDF = Real degree of fermentation (this is manipulated until the FG_sg
matches that of your brew)
Values calculated by program:
OG_dp = Original Gravity (in degrees Plato)
FG_dp = Final Gravity (in degrees Plato)
FG_sg = Final Gravity (in specific gravity)
RE_dp = Real Extract (in degrees Plato)
ABW = %alcohol by weight
ABV = %alcohol by volume
CAL = Calories per 12 oz
These are the formulas (extracted directly from the spreadsheet):
OG_dp = ROUND(2.58333*(OG_sg-1)*10^2
-2.14657*(OG_sg-1)^2*10^2
-1.9664*(OG_sg-1)^3
+1.31634*(OG_sg-1)^4*10^3
-5.08755*(OG_sg-1)^5*10^3
+1.02848*(OG_sg-1)^6*10^4
-1.09709*(OG_sg-1)^7*10^4
+4.82488*(OG_sg-1)^8*10^3,2)
FG_dp = spgae(RE_dp,ABW,2) (see spgae function below)
FG_sg = spgae(RE_dp,ABW,1) (see spgae function below)
RE_dp = ROUND(OG_dp*(100-RDF)/(100-0.005161*OG_dp*RDF),2)
ABW = ROUND(0.4839*OG_dp*RDF/(100-0.005161*OG_dp*RDF),2)
ABV = ABW*1.25
CAL = ROUND((6.9*ABV+4*(ABW-0.1))*FG_sp*3.55,1)
Function spgae(re, al, t) (uses ROUNDI function below)
spgre=ROUNDI((1+0.387217*re/10^2
+0.1207*re^2/10^4
+0.120485*re^3/10^6
-0.237056*re^4/10^8
+0.445367*re^5/10^10
-0.515428*re^6/10^12
+0.310578*re^7/10^14
-0.766564*re^8/10^17), 5)
spgal=ROUNDI((1-0.191706*al/10^2
+0.269886*al^2/10^4
+0.768683*al^3/10^6
-0.880478*al^4/10^7
+0.234733*al^5/10^8
-0.294948*al^6/10^10
+0.183199*al^7/10^12
-0.454977*al^8/10^15), 5)
spg=ROUNDI(spgre+spgal-1, 5)
ae=ROUNDI(2.58333*(spg-1)*10^2
-2.14657*(spg-1)^2*10^2
-1.9664*(spg-1)^3
+1.31634*(spg-1)^4*10^3
-5.08755*(spg-1)^5*10^3
+1.02848*(spg-1)^6*10^4
-1.09709*(spg-1)^7*10^4
+4.8248791*(spg-1)^8*10^3, 2)
If t=1 Then spgae=spg
If t=2 Then spgae=ae
Function ROUNDI(x, n)
ROUNDI=Int(x*10^n+0.50001)/10^n
- -------------end-------------------
Now someone may point out that a formula in the OG_dp calculation and in the
spgae function (both using the exact same calculation) appears to be missing
a part: the third line of each appears to be missing a '*10^2' at the end. I
have added it to both places in the js calculator & in the spreadsheet, and
using 1.070/1.015 as in Jeffrey's example, the difference was 1.1 calories
(256.9 vs 258).
You can compare the methods posted the last few days and decide for
yourselves which one you want to use.
Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
36:30:8 N, 82:31:57 W
(5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian)
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:21:44 -0500
From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu>
Subject: sanitary tube fittings, 1/2" size?
I've been searching for a while to find tri-clover style sanitary tube
fittings in 1/2" size. McMaster-Carr carries 1" (and wants a pretty penny
for them), but I know smaller sizes must be made because sabco uses them in
their drain kit.
I've inquired with movingbrews.com, so far no luck.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:15:56 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: saflager dry yeast
"Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> wrote:
>When brewing the "Pivo/Yates pilsner" (or was it "Yates/Pivo?), Wes
>kindly supplied us with what I believe was S-23, which Phil pitched in
>half of the wort. His preculture had a distinct banana ester aroma,
>which I would of attributed to "warm culturing" and would of thought
>would have dissapeared during the 10C primary, but in fact was apparent
>all the way through to the final beer.
After reading the web page for Saflager
http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/saflager.html that was exactly my concern:
"S-23
This bottom fermenting yeast is widely used by Western European
commercial breweries. This yeast develops the best of its fruity and
estery lager notes when fermented at low temperatures (9C-15C) yet
producing very good lager and pilsener beers at higher temperatures
(15C-21C)."<snip>
"the best of its fruity and estery lager notes ?" Yikes! Not in my
lager! I don't consider fruity or estery notes the best, or even
acceptable. S-189 sounds much better. I would be much more inclined
to try it if they package it in 11.5 g sachets.
Maybe we can split up a 500 g brick in the local club.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:26:16 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Rice in CAP/ CACA
"Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> wrote:
>What about using instant (5 minute) rice? How is this rice processed?
>It seems to me that it is not as hard and could be more easily be run
>through a roller mill. Would it need to be cooked as long or at all?
>Someone out there must have used it before.
Good idea. I imagine that would work like flaked rice. I think it
is cooked and extruded rice flour. I don't like its flavor (it's
what my mother cooked in the 50's when we had rice, usually with chow
mein - ugh), but who knows, it might be no different than flakes.
You can adjust a roller mill to work with rice, BTW. It just takes
some fiddling, according to Jack Schmidling, who tried it at my
suggestion.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:51:16 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Heating without Scorching (was: Re: Jeff's CAP/Cream Ale
"Anders Lundquist" <alun at nada.kth.se> asked:
>The centerpiece of the homebrewing universe wrote:
>
>> I have found that
>> a wire trivet between the electric element of my stove and the pot
>> helps a great deal.
>
>And many others have made similar comments in the past. Could someone
>please explain the theory behind this? Or even just some handwaving
>arguments.
>
>It seems to me that all the trivet would achieve would be to reduce
>the heat conduction efficiency between the electric element and the
>pot, and I fail to see the advantage of that. Well yes, it would reduce
>the scorching, but so would reducing the power in the first place.
Here's my take on it. You get mostly radiant heat that way, and it
is more diffused, so there are fewer hot spots. Those damn electric
elements (I really do need to get a gas stove) in contact with the
relatively thin bottom of my ss stock pot result in some really hot
spots. As a matter of fact, I've been known to scorch a spiral
pattern on the inside exactly matching the electric element.
Reducing the power still has the elements in direct contact with the
stove pot and hot and cold spots. I like the more diffuse heat I get
with the wire trivet.
>Anders (E 18:1:20 N 59:21:44 regular, whatever that is Rennerian)
I reckon it to be (035,4250) using Jason's definition, where the
first is your heading from me in degrees, the second is miles. In
metric that would be (035,6679).
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Jones <ejones at sdl.psych.wright.edu>
Subject: keg cooler at Home Depot
Home Depot is currently selling a Chill 'N Tap beer dispenser made by Danby.
It is a refrigerator with 2.5 inch tap tower, one tap, drip tray, 5 pound
CO2 tank, regulator, sanke tap, beer and gas line, and shelves if you want
to convert back to normal fridge. The unit normally sells there for $625
but they are running a sale for $399. The unit is designed for a 1/4 bbl
keg, but the interior dimensions should fit two 5 gallon corny kegs easily!
The interior measurements are:
27" high (to bottom of temp controller)
10" deep (bottom has a 'shelf' where compressor is tucked)
18" wide
My cornies are all 8.5" in diameter and 25" high. Replacing the tower with
a two-tap tower and the internal hose fittings should give me a two
tap beer dispenser that looks nicer than a converted standard fridge.
They are currently available via special order. I've not bought one of
these yet. Can anyone comment on their conversion ability and/or quality?
- --
Ed Jones
"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
- written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:44:27
From: "Foster Jason" <jasfoster at hotmail.com>
Subject: Wyeast XL packs
Greetings all!
I have a quick question for everyone. I just purchased my first package of
the Wyeast XL size smack pack(A scottish ale in this case). I know the
promise is that they are pitchable directly from the pack, no starter
required. Is this the experience of people out there? Should I still pitch
into a starter before I brew? Or is there enough yeast for a healthy ferment
straight from the pack?
Thank you for your collective wisdom.
Jason Foster
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:14:26 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: FW: visit to Ulm
Someone preferring to remain incognito writes:
>
> I will be going to Ulm Germany soon.
> Can anyone recommend beers to drink,
> sites to see, or beer houses to visit?
> Thanks
If nothing else, you must visit the home of Johann Gambolputty de von
Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried-digger- dingle- dangle-
dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz-
ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer-
spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein-
nurnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut-
gumberaber- shonendanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft.
Note: umlauts deleted to make it through the filters. Name may not be
written exactly as depicted here and is often not listed in tour books.
However, if you read the entire name to a local, I'm sure they will tell you
where to go.
Cheers,
Brian
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:48:35 -0500
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: hops and things lupuvorous
Not having a good day either on the research side or on the ground here!
Today I hear about "rose beetles" (or was it beatles?) eating hops. Last
night I was surfing for info on pruning wild rose bushes and find out that
they can harbour downy mildew. The rose bush is right beside the hops.
Too late. I have already succumbed to paranoia after finding some little
eggs that could be connected to the odd hole in the hop leaves - they look
like aphids, minus the legs. So I break out the insecticidal soap
(commercial brand) and let loose this morning. Now the Cascade leaves are
curling up and down, and have brown dirty patches in the interveinal
regions.
So I am trying to convince myself that an attitude of watchful neglect is
going to be safer. As taught in Ecology 101, it takes a hell of a lot of
beetles to match one human in biomass or environmental damage.
Sean Richens
srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca
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