HOMEBREW Digest #3687 Wed 18 July 2001

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  HOPS - DOUBLE CROPS? ("jps")
  Odd temperature reading (Graham Stone)
  Crystal slowing fermentation (Graham Stone)
  Shipping Homebrew ("Houseman, David L")
  3rd Annual Palmetto State Brewers' Open ("H. Dowda")
  re: Krauzening ("Dr. Pivo")
  drill pump ("Joseph Marsh")
  Re: Krausening (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Evaporation Rate ("RJ")
  Vienna Lager ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  pH measurements (Jan-Willem van Groenigen)
  freezer conversion (kingkelly)
  pH readings (MAB)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:33:58 -0400 From: "jps" <segedy at gsinet.net> Subject: HOPS - DOUBLE CROPS? In #3686 Gunner talked about getting a second crop in the same year. Is this similar to "dead heading" flowers on ornamental plants? If I harvest towards the end of this month would that leave enough time for second batch? I generally have mid Sept as first frost date. Also this year for the first time I had a ton of caterpillars eating Hops leaves (but nothing else in the garden). Anyone know what they are? I didn't want to spray something I was going to eventually be putting into my body so I paid the kids 5 cents each for them and probably didn't spend more than I would have on poison. Any ideas for alternative prevention? This is the third year I've been growing Hops and never had this problem before. Did it just take three years for them to find me and am I likely to be be spending nickels every year from now on? Thanks in advance for responses. John Segedy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:57:54 +0100 From: Graham Stone <gstone at dthomas.co.uk> Subject: Odd temperature reading During fermentation, we notice that the temperature of the wort rises about 1-2 C above ambient as the yeast really kicks in, generally about 24-30 hours after pitching. This is perfectly predictable and understandable. No problem. However, we also notice that as the wort approaches it's final gravity (1012 in our case), the temperature of the wort is now reproducibly about 1C BELOW ambient temperature. This temperature difference will last for at least 24hrs and we have noticed it with every brew we've done this year (over 60 in all). Do we deduce that the yeast is absorbing energy? Graham Stone www.PortchesterBrewery.co.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:16:06 +0100 From: Graham Stone <gstone at dthomas.co.uk> Subject: Crystal slowing fermentation We have 2 recipes that are identical in all respects except that one is 100% Pale Ale malt whilst the other has 5% Crystal in it. The all Pale recipe generally ferments to the required gravity (1012 from 1048) in 3.5 to 4 days. However, the recipe with 5% Crystal in takes 4.5 to 5 days. (Interestingly, we also have another recipe that has 25% Crystal in. This too takes 4.5 to 5 days to complete.) Why should the addition of Crystal cause a 25% increase in fermentation time? Graham Stone www.PortchesterBrewery.co.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:36:11 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Shipping Homebrew Thanks to Bill Neilson for posting this on Techtalk: From: Bill Neilson Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:59 AM Subject: Shipping Homebrew I have just discovered a great way to ship homebrew! Anyone with a computer, access to the internet and a LASER printer can ship via UPS with ease and no questions asked. Just log on to www.ups.com and register for your free "My ups.com" account. You just enter the measurements of the box, the weight of the box, where it is being shipped to, and where it is being shipped from. UPS will generate a shipping label and charge your credit card. All you have to do is tape the label on the box and drop it off at any place that handles UPS shipping such as Mail Boxes etc. or give it to a UPS driver. Every place that is an authorized UPS shipper must accept the package free of charge. Another plus is that you don't have to type in the long tracking number to track your package(s) because your account remembers this number. Also you will find that shipping this way is substantially cheaper than taking it down to one of the UPS shippers as it eliminates their cut. Cheers! Bill Neilson Parrott's Ferry Homebrew Club Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:34:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> Subject: 3rd Annual Palmetto State Brewers' Open We're back... Super special for big brewers & a Just Good Beer Brew Off. http://www.sagecat.com/teaser2001.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:53:09 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: re: Krauzening Colby Fry asks: > I am supposed to make a > Vienna 12 Plato and add Wyeast Bavarian Lager. After 1 day I am to mix it with > the Doppelbock, bottle and Lager for a couple months > I wouldn't take the "1 day" part literally. Krauzening is based on taking at "high krauzen" (when the head has reached it's peak) whenever that is.... might not necessarily be after one day. Starting at a Plato 12, I would say high krauzen would be at Plato 9 or there abouts, if you're feeling unsure and care to measure. Traditional krauzening is between 10-15 percent of the volume. > Should I siphon the > Vienna into the bottling bucket? Should I carefully pour the Vienna into the > bucket and then add the Doppelbock? > Don't think it makes a big difference. Part of the krauzening "trick" is to protect from oxidation and it does seem to make it immune. I regularly siphon the krauzen to a bucket (splash one), pour into a non CO2 flushed keg (splash 2), and then siphon the "finished stuff" into it (splash 3) and have had no trouble keeping kegs 6 months without stale flavours. I guarantee that treating any other beer in that manner would pretty much assure you an "early death by "old barrell" taste". Er, that is... I SHOULD have said "I've NEVER been able to keep a keg 6 months, but when I've been away from home for extended periods of time, and don't continually molest my kegs, they can keep for 6 months without my finding any stale flavours upon return". > Never did it before, but it seems fun. > Immensely. I think you'll find a lot of things happening that you "just can't get any other way". Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:24:30 -0500 From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com> Subject: drill pump Dave Galloway asks about drill pumps... I had the same idea a while ago so I took one of them apart to see what I was dealing with. Mine has a rubber impeller but the bad news is that the shaft uses a greased bearing. I've removed all the grease and -degreased- it with alcohole but I haven't tried the thing yet. Mine would go on the outlet of my chiller to avoid high temps. BTW are you any relation to Dave Galloway of Galloway Photos? Good brewing, Joe Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:12:05 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Krausening "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net> of Roxbury, Pa writes: >I am getting ready to lager a doppelbock for a couple of months and the >recipe calls for it to be krausened for carbonation. I am supposed to make a >Vienna 12 Plato and add Wyeast Bavarian Lager. After 1 day I am to mix it with >the Doppelbock, bottle and Lager for a couple months. I am wondering exactly >how to do this. I've read extensively on this, but the articles are vague. >(both of dave millers books, homebrewers companion, etc...)Should I siphon the >Vienna into the bottling bucket? Should I carefully pour the Vienna into the >bucket and then add the Doppelbock? Not sure what has to take place for this >to work. Congratulations on tackling a very traditional lager method that is very little used by homebrewers, or micro or even mega brewers in the US for that matter. The procedure is called kraeusening because you add freshly fermenting beer to the aged, just when the new beer is at high kraeusen, or highest head. This is typically not after one day, as your sources suggest, but 2-3 days. You want to use a big active starter and a cold tolerant yeast. W34/70 is suggested by Fix (Analysis of Brewing Techniques). Not sure which Wyeast this is, but I think it may be the Bavarian. Kraeusening is traditionally done to beer that has finished lagering. Do you have the space to lager in bulk and then bottle? The idea is that lagering mellows the beer but there may still be some off flavors (diacetyl especially) that freshly fermenting yeast can remove. I read a quote from an old German brewer who said, "Our young beer educates our old beer" or something like that. It is also reputed to give superior carbonation and head retention, but Fix disputes this form his experience. Commericial brewers, even small village brewers in Bavaria, who brew the same beer day after day, have sufficient consistency to know just how much kraeusen beer to add to get the proper carbonation. Of course, they also always have some freshly fermenting beer to add to the lagered beer. Since you don't have a continuous brewing cycle going on, brewing a Vienna fresh will work. Actually, any lager will work, although I'd be inclined to brew a Dunkel since that is most similar to the Doppelbock in grain bill and hopping. The procedure is this - you add enough kraeusen beer to provide just enough carbonation. This is typically 10% of the volume of the lagered beer. (Fix suggests 15-20% with pressure relief for the excess carbonation, but this doesn't work with bottles). But this is imprecise. For precision, you would need to know how much sugar is in the kraeusen beer. A simple hydrometer reading will be off because of the lower SG of the alcohol, but not by a lot. A 12 degree wort will probably be down only a degree or two. This will probably provide about the right carbonation since your lagered beer will have a good deal of dissolved CO2. Be sure not to introduce any air from splashing. You will probably get a fair amount of foaming, which should protect the beer. Tun the kraeusen beer into the lager beer and then immediately bottle so you lose as little CO2 as possible. Good luck. Please post your results. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:34:18 -0400 From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net> Subject: Re: Evaporation Rate Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> wrote: >Can someone give me a ballpark evaporation rate for ~ 13 gallons of >sweet liquor using a converted 1/2 bbl keg as a boiler and a 170K BTU >propane burner turned up all the way? "With my 10 gallon stainless kettle on a Metal Fusion 150 BTU cajun cooker my evaporation rate is a bit over 1 gallon per hour." I generally boil in the vacinity of 8-1/2 gallons of liquor to produce 5 gallons of finished wort, using a 200k BTU cajun cooker, this equates to a 24% evaporation rate. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:49:10 -0700 From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com> Subject: Vienna Lager Hi all, I've recently been seduced by Nerga Modelo's dark charms & would like to try a batch for myself. I have a few questions about the Vienna Lager style. In my web research (mainly in the HBD archives), I've seen refence to both Dos Equis & Negra Modelo being Vienna Lagers. I have never had Dos Equis, but I always though it was a lighter beer, not any where as dark as Negra Modelo. Am I mistaken in Dos Equis' color, or that they're both Vienna Lagers, or is there some sort of wide range of style that I'm missing? I'm an extract with specialty grain ale brewer so far, so this would be my 1st lager. I am still somewhat apprehensive of all-grain (even though I have a wonderful mash/lauter tun), but wouldn't mind trying a partial mash. I have read that George Fix's book is quite good, both in content & recipes, but I'm curious to see what other recipes are out there. Were the recipes from this year's MCAB ever published? I was watching as a few of them were posted to this group, but never saw any Vienna recipes. So, any extract or partial-mash recipes? Any suggestions on my 1st lager? I have a refrigerator with one of the external thermostat that's able to effectively cool down to about 38 degrees. Thanks, Nils Hedglin Sacramento, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:00:23 -0700 From: Jan-Willem van Groenigen <groenigen at ucdavis.edu> Subject: pH measurements Jeff Renner asked: > The only remarkable differences I see are in pH; the half filled > corney had lower pH than the other two at the middle of fermentation: > ><4.070, 4.068, 4.009>. > > and the three were more or less equally separated in pH at the end: >>pH readings were < 4.057, 4.028, 3.998 >. > Any ideas why? I think you are reading too much in these numbers, Jeff. Unless Steve has a pH meter with a much higher precision than I have ever encountered in our labs, only one decimal is significant in pH measurements. So, the two number series are 4.1, 4.1, 4.0, and 4.1, 4.0, 4.0. At least, that is the way it would be reported in a scientific journal. Without replication, I would not base any arguments on these very small (even granted that pH is a logarithmic scale) differences, they can be very easily based on some random fluctuation. I hope I don't start a whole new discussion with this..... JW. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:45:44 -0400 From: kingkelly at juno.com Subject: freezer conversion hey guys - i am the guy who made the freezer conversion that is being tossed about the last couple of days. several questions have come up regarding the design 1- there seems to be an issue regarding the material that i covered the unit with and how it affects the dissipation of heat necessary to keep the unit running properly. i'm glad that was brought up because frankly i did not that it was an issue. here are some specs regarding what i did . maybe the fridge guy ( who has given input via a fellow club member) or someone else can make some sense out of it. first of all the rear is not covered at all, the unit sits in our game room at normal household temperatures. the covering is 3/16 thick wainscotting paneling with the grooves being about 1/8 thick and spaced about 1 in apart. this material is glued( panel adhesive) to the freezer skin. as a test i taped two quick read thermometers - one on back and one on the front- really well with duct tape to see what the differential really was during cycling. the front went from 81f to 90.7and the rear went from 82f to about 96f in the same amount of time. i have the freezer set to 0 f and a ranco controller set to 35f going off at 38f. the outside front feels warm to the touch mostly from the middle to the top of unit as does the rear. 2- the freezer is a 14.8 cu ft non defrost brand new model. as of now it is maintaining temperature very well. i'm keeping it a little colder than i usually would because i have a caca in there that frankly is just better cold. the things on top are not hatches but merely two trays that i made from scrap ( it was cheaper to buy a 4x8 sheet of wainscotting than those weird small sizes that they sell. i can fit 6 cornies ( two with cobra taps ) on the right and still have room for a fermentation chamber on the left, i was only getting a 7 or 8 point temp differential with just a 2in thick piece of polystyrene. not enough for my hefe in secondary. so i wrapped (no glue easy to change. the whole inside ferment chamber with styrene. got a 20 pt difference just what i wanted. will remove the styrene for lagering at which point there is enough room for two carboys. any opinions about any of the above would be appreciated either via hbd or personal e-mail or by phone 540-268-1270. thanks jim kelly south fork brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:37:42 -0400 From: MAB <mabrooks12 at yahoo.com> Subject: pH readings Recent posting of Steve A's "experiment" have given pH values with three decimal place and has prompted some discussion about the possible fermentation differences that may have caused such pH differences. I would like to point out (based on over fourteen years of extensive Lab and Field experience with pH meters, and having performed over 10,000 pH readings) that these pH numbers are extremely unrealistic. First of all, the pH meter is only as accurate as the Buffers used to calibrate it, and these buffer are only accurate to TWO (2) decimal places! and even that number is + or - .02 pH units! Hence, the pH meter is only accurate to two decimal places, + or - 0.02 pH units (remember "Significant Digits") and that is for a Laboratory grade Bench top model costing upwards of $3,000.00 (without the electrode) and calibrated using a three point calibration. My experience has shown that the cheaper ($500.00+, w/o electrode) Two point calibration models are hit or miss at the second decimal place, and this is when it is used under laboratory conditions, thus, for field use it should be setup to display/round off to One decimal place, as that is the what can be measured with some degree of precision at varying temperatures and water conditions... Less expensive pH meters are, realistically, only accurate to One decimal place, and some of them I have used I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in it being accurate to the One decimal, its hit or miss with the cheap ones....but hey, its close enough to brew with! I have used every type of pH electrode on the market (Orion, Accumet, Corning, in every make, Glass, Plastic, Gel filled, AgCl filled, Temp comp. built in, Reference built in, Separate Reference etc.....) and have come to the conclusion that they all have their pluses and minuses and should be selected based on the type of pH meter you own and the conditions under which they will be used. In the field I use use a combination electrode with Temp. compensation built in, and it drifts in and out of the second decimal place. There is also the issue of how clean the glass bulb is?? This needs to be occasionally cleaned to prevent mineral scaling, oil build up etc... Has the electrode been stored properly between uses? How about long term storage? Junction build up? Are you calibrating and using it with the Fill Hole open? Electrodes outputs vary between pH meters, as I have witnessed by placing several different electrodes on different pH meters (in the Laboratory), calibrating with the same set of Buffers, measuring the same sample, and getting up to 0.2 - 0.3 decimal place differences. Bottom line to this discussion is that pH meters are not as accurate as many people would like to believe ($3,000+ laboratory grade, laboratory maintained, laboratory used units excluded). For all practical purposes, Steve A's recent posting of pH's are essentially all the same numbers .... 4.057 rounds off to 4.1, 4.028 rounds off to 4.0, and 3.998 rounds off to 4.0. The reality of field measurements would not indicate a significant difference in any of these numbers (4.1, 4.0, 4.0)....others may take exception to these findings but I would ask how much Laboratory, Field, and troubleshooting experience they have with pH meters, electrodes and performing scientific studies with water containing numerous different constituents that can/do affect the readings of pH meters. Matt B. Northern VA. Return to table of contents
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