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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Beer, Beer & More Beer ("Gary Smith")
  Yeast Harvesting and Krausen (Denis Bekaert)
  Malt storage...thanks for the insight ("Tom Jabas")
  Re: King Cooker ("RJ")
  Re: Mead across borders (Todd Goodman)
  Cider (Bob Pelletier)
  RE: separation anxiety ("Doug Hurst")
  Sodium Metabisulfite and Beer ("Eric R. Theiner")
  RIMS inventor controversy ("Alan Meeker")
  Re: dishwasher-free sanitizing (Alexander King)
  stir plates for yeast straters ("Alan Meeker")
  Fw: use of dishwashers ("Beerhunter01")
  Brewing with plums?  Make wine! (Jay Pfaffman)
  Re: Krausening (Jeff Renner)
  Water Filtration System ("Greenly, Jeff")
  Diacetyl Rest (Ant Hayes)


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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:19:55 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
Subject: Beer, Beer & More Beer

I've had a unique experience with them, I probably would be called 
the accidental customer from hell from most establishments.

I called and after 10-15 min of conversation regarding my needs 
ordered about $150. worth of equipment using Visa to pay. I was 
pleased they had what I wanted and the free shipping was a real 
plus.

I received an email that evening which caused me to rethink the 
direction I was about to take & realized I needed Items other than I 
ordered and that to compile a proper list would take another week's 
research. I called them the next day & someone else answered the 
call & was very nice & professional about cancelling the order.

That's the end of the story, nothing grandiose except that I'd taken 
a lot of their time & ended up cancelling the order with no perceived 
resentment or triteness on their end at all. There were no negatives.

Two thumbs up.

I'd buy from them in a heartbeat.

Cheers,

Gary

P.S. Another place with wonderful service & high integrity is 
MovingBrews. Bill, the owner makes sure you know what you're 
getting & he has a great wealth of information to help guide you. It's 
nice to see a place where the seller wants you to be sure you're 
making the right choice rather than just make the sale & go to the 
next caller ASAP.
Gary

Gary Smith

http://www.geocities.com/dawgmando/


"I have more talent in my smallest fart than you 
have in your entire body"

 - Walter Matthau to Barbara Streisand 
(off camera while making "Hello Dolly") -


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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:37:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Denis Bekaert <Denis-B at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Yeast Harvesting and Krausen

I've been experimenting with harvesting and storing
yeast strains for later use by freezing, thanks to a
method suggested by Pete Fantasia and have a question
for the group.  I have been harvesting the slurry at
the bottom of the primary fermenting pail but it
occurred to me that the krausen should be rich in
yeast cells because in the case of ales, the action is
on top.  I wonder if I am selecting for early
flocculation members of the population rather than
harvesting a better, and more representative,
population.

Should I attempt to harvest some of this krausen, too?
While that might lead to contamination if harvested
from the primary during active fermentation, if I
harvested it from a "starter" I could simply remove
the liquid portion and stir the krausen into the
flocculated yeast cells at the bottom of the starter
and freeze that mixture in a sucrose syrup (3/8 cup
sugar in one cup of water).

Am I on the right track here, or am I complicating a
simple process?

Thanks for all the help...

Denis in Beechgrove, Tennessee where Moonshine is our
history, but brewing is our passion



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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:34:21 -0500
From: "Tom Jabas" <tomjabas at sihope.com>
Subject: Malt storage...thanks for the insight

Glen (A. Pannicke),

Thanks for your ideas on malt storage.  As far as temperature, I too am
storing the grains in the basement.  It remains between 68 and 72 degrees
and that seems reasonable.  To keep insects out, I bought a few six gallon
plastic buckets with those hideous snap on lids for the short term.  I found
the screw on lids you talked about at various sites throughout the internet.
They are called Gamma Seals and sell for as little as $6.00.  I will be
ordering a few of those later.  As far as silica gel, I hadn't even
considered something like that.  I checked a few resources and it seems this
is a pretty common method of keeping moisture out of grains for long term
storage.  I picked up a 5 pound can of the stuff at Michael's craft store
for about $9.00 (craft stores are a good silica gel source because people
use it for drying flowers).  Anyway, I put four to five ounces in a large
coffee filter, tied it off, and dropped it on top of the grains before
sealing the lid.  It may be overkill, but we've been 'enjoying'  95F and 95%
humidity the past few days!  Are you fairing any better in NJ?

Thanks again for the ideas...

Tom Jabas
tomjabas at sihope.com



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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 06:36:25 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: King Cooker

"Brian M Dotlich" <BMDotlich at cs.com> wrote:

"Recently I purchased a King Cooker (single jet "rocket engine" type LPG
burner) used at a yard sale.  I was wondering what the little plate that
pivots over the flame is for.  Should I swing it over the flame when I am
doing my 5 gallon full wort boils or should I leave it off to the side."

Well Brian,

That little swing plate is your flame spreader... If you're going for a
light colored beer such as a pils, it dramatically helps reduce the
scortching / carmelizing of the wort... If you just looking to boil water
fast, swing it out of the way...

By the way, (I use the 200k Btu version), here's an easy clean up tip...
When the job is done and you've cleaned and air-dried you're boiler for the
next round yet to come, take a small amount of liquid dish detergent and rub
it onto the bottom and up the sides of the pot (without water) and let it
dry... Next cleanup will be a snap!  As the carbon build ups from the flame
will practically fall off by themselves.

Also, "Wally World" is a good source for parts, should you need them down
the road... I must add that I've had mine now for 6+ years, without having
to replace anything.   Pretty good for a $40 investment.



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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:54:53 -0400
From: Todd Goodman <tgoodman at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Re: Mead across borders

In HBD #3688, bmurray <bmurray at merr.com> writes:
>Traveling from northern Wisconsin to Maine via Canada and wish to carry
>along a twelve pack of mead as a gift to friends... question: am I going
>to have trouble getting this across any borders? Will I be better off
>mailing it?

I've never had any problems bringing homebrew into Canada (driving
across the border in Maine).  They ask if I have any alcohol and I just
tell them "a case of beer" (or 2 cases of beer sometimes).

I'd probably just tell them "a few bottles of mead" or something
similar.

My $.02 (Canadian).

Todd Goodman
Brewing in Westford, MA
(And just returned from camping in Fundy National Park, NB)


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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:40:30 -0400
From: Bob Pelletier <rp at ihrsa.org>
Subject: Cider

Looking for resources on cider making. Preferably web sites.

Bob





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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:00:09 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: separation anxiety

Bob Shotola writes:
"...but am now wondering how to best recover the yeast from the primary
without getting too much pellet hop gook with it."

I just brewed a brown ale using the slurry from the bottom of a stout.
Yeah, I know I should have brewed the brown ale first.  Anyway, I always
use hop pellets because I purchased a huge supply inexpensively.  The
hop gook from the pellets seems to mostly gather at the top of the
fermenter with only a minimal amount falling to the bottom.  I took an
800ml sample of slurry before racking to the secondary fermenter by
jamming my racking cane (without one of those cup things on the end)
directly down into the sediment.  After collecting my slurry I then
pulled the cane up out of the sediment and racked as normal.  The 800ml
of slurry seemed to be fairly clean and fermentation took off
immediately in the brown ale.  If I had let the slurry sample settle for
a couple hours I could have poured the stout (and presumably a small
amount of hops) off the top and produced a more concentrated/cleaner
yeast slurry. 

Hope this helps,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL


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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:51:05 -0400
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Sodium Metabisulfite and Beer

I don't have the studies or numbers to back me up (and I'm not even going 
to crack my reaction kinetics book), but I don't think that SMBS is an 
effective sanitizer for beer.  I recall with my foggy and jetlagged mind 
that acid is necessary to develop the sulfur dioxide which does the 
sanitizing, and although wine has this acid level, beer does not.

I'd suggest one of the no-rinse sanitizers on the market instead of the 
Sodium Metabisulfite-- or if those aren't available, try the oven method 
(bake the bottles and let them cool (while still in the oven!!-- don't open 
the oven until you're ready to use them) overnight.

Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.



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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:37:51 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: RIMS inventor controversy

David Sweeney recently posted the following:

"In the spirit of Jethro Gump, I have obtained a direct line of
communication with the inventor of the RIMS, Rodney Morris."  

Rodney Morris?? But I though Al Gore invented RIMS.



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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alexander King <ralexanderking at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dishwasher-free sanitizing

Ricardo wrote:

<Snip>

Has anyone tried the old winemaker's method of rinsing
your visually 
clean
bottles with a 10% potassium metabisulfite solution
immediately before
bottling? Will it adversely affect the taste or head
of beer? It works 
great
on white wines, but then I usually want to raise the
free SO2 level of 
the
wines slightly at bottling anyway.

Just wondering if this is a bad idea for beer. Not
everyone has a
dishwasher.
<Snip>
Ricardo,
I'm not sure about the sulfite wash, I'm not a big
wine person, and my girlfriend is allergic to
sulphides, so when I do the occasional mead, I use
other sanitizing methods.
But I have had great success with a device made by the
same company that makes those big red bottle drying
trees. It is a small bowl with a spring loaded
"Squirter" in the center. I mix up some iodofor
solution (Follow the directions on the side because
you don't want it to flavor your beer, I use a medical
syringe to measure), rinse the bottles with hot water
and then spray one squirt of it into the bottle and
then put it on the drying tree. 5-10 mins later the
bottles are mostly dry and the iodofor has evaporated
off. Then I bottle as usual.
I have a kegging system, so I only use this on things
that need to sit a while...such as mead, big beers, or
when I counter pressure for competition. 

Anyone else have any ideas?

Alex King

Note: If you spam me I will make sure you pay the
fines for, it so do it to someone else.



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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:14:48 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: stir plates for yeast straters

Rob Barrett asks about using a stir plate for making yeast starters:

 "Can someone explain how to use
 the stir plate from the time the yeast is added to the
 starter to the time the starter is pitched into the wort.  I am
 concerned about when to start the stir plate after adding
 the yeast to the starter and how long the stir plate should
 run while the starter is growing and how fast should it run?"

Rob, I use a stir plate when growing my yeast starters and it works great.
There are 3 main reasons for using the stir plate:

Reason 1)   Aeration.
In order to get the maximum benefit you want good mixing, a decent surface
area at the liquid/air interface, and decent airflow into the flask.  Mixing
is sufficiently good when a vortex (looks like a small tornado) is formed in
the liquid and you're getting air bubble formation within the liquid.
Surface area: volume ratios should be as large as possible, within the
constraints of the system. For your 2000 ml flask I wouldn't go much above
1000 ml for your total volume. To allow air into the flask (and CO2 to
leave) during growth, use an enclosure that will let air pass as freely as
possible. Sterile cotton or cloth batting plugs work, as does a square of
aluminum foil loosely covering the flask opening.

As far as when to stir - do so throughout, even before the yeast are added,
so the starter wort is maximally aerated right from the start (otherwise it
may start off poorly oxygenated if it has very recently been
heat-sterilized). Stirring after the starter appears to have stopped growing
may even prove beneficial since even non-dividing yeast cells still make use
of the oxygen for sterol synthesis.

Reason 2)   Promote CO2 off-gassing
The starter solution quickly becomes saturated with CO2 that is given off by
the yeast. Dissolved CO2 is inhibitory to yeast metabolism (and therefore
yeast growth) so anything you can do to help remove this CO2 will help the
yeast out. I'm sure you've noticed what happens when you swirl an actively
fermenting beer or shake a can of soda! As with aeration, vigorous mixing
and access to the outside air helps the CO2 escape.

Reason 3)  Keep yeast exposed to nutrients
There is a lot of strain-to-strain variability in terms of their propensity
to flocculate and settle out to the bottom of the container. Some yeasts are
notorious for doing this relatively early in the fermentation. Once again,
thorough mixing is our friend, keeping the yeast well exposed to the starter
nutrients throughout the growth phase.

Hope this Helps

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD






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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:32:34 -0400
From: "Beerhunter01" <Beerhunter01 at email.msn.com>
Subject: Fw: use of dishwashers


> >
> > The use of dish washer to sanitize bottles is not generally a safe
practice, the high temps cause the distraction in strength of the glass and
with prolonged use on the same bottles will make for glass bombs. Also
wheather or not the bottles fully are cleaned is debatable also. If washing
in bulk a large tupperware bin and soak bottles overnight is a safer way to
go especially if its a prize winning beer. Sla'inte!
> >                                     Dave Miller
> >                                     owner A Brew Haus inc.
> >                                              www.ubrewit.com
> >                                             www.homebrewwholesale.com


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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:14:44 -0500
From: Jay Pfaffman <pfaffman at relaxpc.com>
Subject: Brewing with plums?  Make wine!

If I lived somewhere that getting rid of good fruit was a problem, I'd
be making lots of fruit wines.

I have a great book called The Joy of Home Winemaking by Terry Garey.
It reads a lot like Papazian's, The New Complete Joy.  It's full of
delightful stories and uses 1 gallon recipes to entice beginners with
no equipment to feel like they should give it a try.  The only real
bummer with wine (like mead) is that you need to plan on tying up a
carboy for 3-12 months and then wait another 6-12 for it to age in the
bottle.  Of course, if you make enough, you can taste it more along
the way.

Garey describes Plum wine as mild and thin, but still worthwhile.  For
a gallon use 2lbs of sugar or honey, 4 pounds plums, 1.5 tsp
tanning. 1 spp. acid blend, .5 tsp pectic enzyme.  She recommends
using a campden tablet to kill any wild beasties.  Pit and cut the
plums a bit & crush them with your hands or a potato masher.  Boil the
water & honey/sugar and pour it over the fruit.

If I were going to try them in a beer, I'd brew a fairly mild pale
ale, with a bit of wheat and add 3-6 pounds of fruit and maybe a bit
of pectic enzyme in secondary.  Easy on the hops our you'll never
taste the fruit.  I think that for most fruits 3 pounds would be
enough, but it sounds like plums don't contribute much flavor.  There
was an article and recipe about apricot beers in a recent Brew Your
Own (or was it Zymurgy?).  I'd use that as a guide.

My great depths of wisdom come from three fruit beers.  One's still in
secondary.  The other two are quite good (one earned a third place in
a recent competition), but I might just be lucky.

- -- 
Jay Pfaffman                           pfaffman at relaxpc.com
+1-615-343-1720 (office)               +1-615-460-9299 (home) 
http://relax.ltc.vanderbilt.edu/~pfaffman/


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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:45:26 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Krausening

Hubert Hanghofer <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at>

>Jeff Renner wrote in HBD#3687:
>>  Kraeusening is traditionally done to beer that has finished lagering.
>
>This is new to me ...but one never knows, do one? ;-)
>I can see that this could work but actually (at least today - in Bavarian
>breweries that I'm familiar with) krausening is done before lagering - right
>after the beer is close to final gravity in the primary.

What is probably more likely is that I have misunderstood.  I defer 
to your greater familiarity with the procedure.  I'll have to check 
my resources.  I did always wonder about that 10-15% unlagered 
portion.

Thanks for the additional details.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 01:08:48 -0400
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: Water Filtration System

Dear Friends,

	After a lot of tinkering and 'sperimenting, I have ascertained that
I have a problem with the local water supply. It seems they pump a LOT of
chlorine into the (rather hard) water. Stands and boils don't seem to be
cutting it with regards to removal of this vile taint. Can anyone recommend
a commercially available filtration system that can help with this?

Jeff


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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:31:47 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Diacetyl Rest

I am looking for confirmation regarding the diacetyl rest procedure as
set out in Brewing Lager Beer.

As I understand it, when you are at 1/3rd gravity or about 1P away from
target gravity, you raise your wort temperature to 16C, at no faster
rate than 3C per 24 hours. Once fermented out, you lower temperature to
0C, again no faster than 3C per day.

I am trying this schedule for the third time. Each time though, the beer
seems to reach terminal gravity before I get to 16C. I am also nervous
that I am exposed to autolysis, if I don't draw my yeast off before I
get down to 0C.

Ant Hayes
Gauteng
African Union


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