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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Re: Stir Plate for Yeast Starter (Mike Lemons)
Competition results (Scott & Cherie Stihler)
re: Underfermented IPA ("Mark Tumarkin")
Yeast Viability ("RJ")
Re: priming concerns ("RJ")
Re: draft box questions ("RJ")
Re: Recipe help (Jeff Renner)
Re:Recipe help ("RJ")
Re: Underfermented IPA ("RJ")
Re: priming concerns (Demonick)
Removing chlorine/chloramine ("Strom C. Thacker")
Re: Harvesting yeast for freezing ("Peter Fantasia")
Underfermented? (Perez)
pH (Jan-Willem van Groenigen)
electric brewing system (joseph540)
Silica Gel ("Richard T. Perry")
Re: Recipe help (Jeff Renner)
Underfermented IPA? (Alan McKay)
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Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:48:43 -0700
From: Mike Lemons <ndcent at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stir Plate for Yeast Starter
Wouldn't a magnet moving at high speed damage the yeast?
I've considered building a magnetic stirrer for high-gravity
fermentations in a five gallon carboy. I would use a bar magnet on the
would be used to periodically rouse the yeast off the bottom.
I haven't done it because I am afraid that instead of waking up the
yeast, I would smash them to bits.
There is a device, called a wrist shaker, that you clamp an erlenmeyer
flask to. It has a motor that sloshes the contents around. I have
assumed that this device is used to prevent damage to the yeast.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:48:29 -0800
From: Scott & Cherie Stihler <stihlerunits at mosquitonet.com>
Subject: Competition results
The results of this year's E.T. Barnette Homebrew Competition
are in.
The overall quality of the entries was once again extremely
high this year.
We received a total of 64 entries from 13 states.
Please join me in congratulating A. J. Zanyk for winning Best of
Show and the $500 that goes along with it!!!
**** Best Of Show (BOS) *****
Brewers Winning Beer/Mead Style
BOS - A. J. Zanyk Peach Melomel
2nd - Frank Marsh Bavarian Dunkelweizen
3rd - Mark Forrester Helles/Maibock
***** Light Ale Class **********
Brewers Winning Beer Style
1st - Pete Devaris Belgian Specialty Ale
2nd - tie!
Bill Brooks & Jud Robison India Pale Ale
2nd - tie!
Jud Robison & Bill Brooks Koelsch Style Ale
3rd - tie!
Frank Marsh Biere de Garde
3rd - tie!
Pete Devaris Witbier
******* Dark Ale Class ********
Brewers Winning Beer Style
1st - Frank Marsh Bavarian Dunkelweizen
2nd - Randy Pierson Foreign Extra Stout
3rd - J. Rothstein, W. Borth Russian Imperial Stout
& C. Goldstein
******* Light Lager Class *******
Brewers Winning Beer Style
1st - Mark Forrester Helles/Maibock
2nd - Rob Beck Helles/Maibock
3rd - Susan Ruud Oktoberfest
******* Dark Lager Class *******
Brewers Winning Beer Style
1st - Pete Devaris Doppelbock
2nd - Ted Hausotler Munich Dunkel
3rd - Glenn Thomas Doppelbock
*** Specialty/Mixed Style Class ****
Brewers Winning Beer Style
1st - Pete Devaris Spruce Pale Ale
2nd - Steve Schmitt Smoked Doppelbock
3rd - Vincent Rokke Witbier
******* Meads **************
Brewers Winning Mead Style
1st - A. J. Zanyk Peach Melomel
2nd - Breck Tostevin Pyment
3rd - Mike Westman Traditional Still Mead
For more information regarding the result of this competition go
to the following URL:
http://www.mosquitonet.com/~stihlerunits/ScottsDen/Beer/Events/ETB2001.html
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:48:03 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Underfermented IPA
Dave Perez comes out of lurking mode and asks about an underfermented IPA.
First, welcome out of lurking mode Dave. I know there are a number of other
Hogtown Brewers in lurk mode on the HBD, but it's good to see you post. To the
rest of you, Dave is a new brewer who's off to a great start. His Scottish Ale
took first place in our in-club contest last month. If you ask him real nice
he might tell you the story of his first brew day - truly a brew day from hell
story with an inspirational ending, but I digress....
I think I'm the one that recommended Option 1 before? The question being, how
under fermented/under attenuated is it? If just a bit, I think Option 1 is
best. If quite a bit, you have to worry that it might start fermenting again
and create bottle bombs. In that case, keep it cold and drink quickly, and
open carefully, paying close attention to see if carbonation level is
increasing over time. If the carbonation level does start to increase,
carefully open each bottle to release pressure and then re-cap.
Opt 2 risks oxidation and/or contamination
You could always try Option 3 and/or 4 with a very limited number of bottles
as an experiment. Personally, I'd worry about exploding bottles if they begin
to referment in the bottle - but that brings up the question of whether the
residual sugars are fermentable or not. Anyway, bring a bottle of the IPA to
the club meeting Friday night and we'll try it and talk about it again.
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL
>
> The offerings are:
>
> 1 - Shut up and drink it!
>
> 2 - Purge the air out of a bottling bucket, open the bottles, pour them in
and
> pitch some more yeast (1056 in this case).
>
> 3 - Pop the tops, drop a few grains of Nottingham, recap and see if that
> works.
>
> 4 - Same as 3 but use one Prime Tab.
>
> Options 3 and 4 seem like potential pyrotechnics. Any thoughts???
>
> Dave Perez
> Gainesville, FL
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:32:58 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net>
Subject: Yeast Viability
Okay... I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but...
For the life of me I can't understand all the hoopla when the suject of
yeast viability comes up between homebrewers.
I've been brewing since 1978, and all-grain for at least 7 years now... In
the last 8 yrs that I've maintained written records, I've brewed 195+ 5
gallon batches (with over 150 using liquid/slat/slurry yeast), and to date
have yet to have maybe 2 batches that I would consider having had an issue
with yeast (they were Belgian Ales, and previously never tasting one,
thought the beer was bad... In retrospect, I through out "good" beer).
When you consider that prior to segregation of yeast and as an actual
component of beer (only in the last 100 or so years)... It's profound to
think that anyone ever brewed before hand or that it was any good!
Heck, the brewers of old used to take the yeast from a brewing batch and dry
on a "stick", for later use. Granted many of the beers were probably sour,
but, dark enough to mask the off flavors we would perceive today, since
we're soooo stylistic.
I guess what I'm getting to is... The issues we raise as a group, often to
newbie's, about yeast getting old or transitioning thru to autolysis...
What brewer out there, that's been around the block, hasn't taken a bottle
of Chimay or some other brand (that came across the ocean in a hot ship hold
for weeks, then sat on a shelf for months, most likely unrefrigerated) and
re-used the yeast in the bottom of the bottle? Making a good or great brew
from it! Where was all the bad stuff, then?
I must say, that I've had yeast stored under the original fermented wort for
months and reused it without issue. That's not to say that I've never had
yeast go bad under these circumstances, a quick whiff from the flask will
pretty much tell you whether it's good or not... But, I often think that
we've evolved into greater than purists.
Nuf said. I'll go back to just responding to other poster's issues!
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:49:37 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: priming concerns
David Brandt <jdlcr at flash.netdex.com> wrote:
"Dear HBD'rs,
Sometimes when I prime my beer it foams. The last time it went nuts and
almost overflowed the priming bucket. It was an Oatmeal Stout with a bit of
lactose added at the end of the boil. A few bubbles (and I mean very few)
were rising in the secondary after a week but its gravity was as expected
-what with lactose added. My syrup was cooled to a bit above room temp.
What causes this foaming at priming time, why can it foam at different
rates, and does this occasional event encourage oxidization?"
Sounds to me, like one or more things are happening here...
1) It wasn't finished fermenting
2) You fermented in a cooler place than where you went to prime it
and, in both cases, stirred up the yeast, which responded to the new food
source....
A good rule of thumb, is to bottle when the bubbler is blowing less than 1
bubble per minute...
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:56:52 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: draft box questions
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 01 16:38:14 -0500
Marc Donnelly <marc at targetadv.com> wrote:
"I recently got a two product draft box - cooler with two taps on the
front and 50+ feet of SS tubing on the inside.
design information:
50 feet of 5/16 inch O.D. SS tubing
5 feet of 1/4 inch I.D plastic tubing to connect the draft box to the
keg/corny.
I was wondering what suggested pressure to despense beer at? Also would
it differ, depending if I was using a corney keg or real 16 gallon keg."
The second most frequent cause of foaming in a draft beer system (High Beer
Temperature at keg or glass No. 1) is system pressure balance. The pressure
on the beer regulator gage must be set equal to the pounds of resistance
calculated in the formula below.
Compute the regulator setting (gauge) pressure by:
Pressure = length of beer line x Line Resistance + Lift x 0.5
where the length of beer line is its length in feet
Line Resistance is given in the resistance given in the beer line chart
below
Lift is the height in feet of the faucet above the keg connector or serving
tank.
Example 1: faucet is 1 foot above the keg, line is 5 feet of 3/16 beer line.
the total resistance is (5 ft x 3.0 lb/ft or 15 pounds) + (1 feet x 0.5
lb/ft or 0.5 pounds) = 15.5 pounds.
Answer: set regulator to 15 pounds.
Example 2: faucet is 5 feet above the keg, line is 15 feet of 1/4 beer line.
the total resistance is (15 ft x 0.85 lb/ft or 12.7 pounds) + (5 feet x 0.5
lb/ft or 2.5 pounds) = 15.2 pounds.
Answer: set regulator to 15 pounds.
Line Resistance by beer line I.D.
Use with the ballance instructions above.
Line ID (inches) Resistance
(pounds) Volumn/foot
(ounces)
3/16= 3.0 1/6
1/4= 0.85 1/3
3/8= 0.20 3/4
1/2= 0.025 1 1/3
Keg Temperature & Pressure Chart
(for all 100% CO2Systems)
Keg Temperature
(F) 35 36-37 38-39 40 41-42 43-44
Internal Keg Pressure
(pounds) 10 11 12 13 14 15
Minimum Applied Pressure
(pounds) 13 14 15 16 17 18
Maximum Pressure
(pounds) 16 17 18 19 20 21
I hope this helps...
Plz note, info was absconded from: http://ceisites.com/kegman/index.html
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:00:53 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Recipe help
Jim of Buffalo NY <Hop_Head at webtv.net> wrote:
>I was thinking of an American Cream Ale. I would like
>to make it reddish without adding too much flavor. How can I accomplish
>this? I'm thinking a small amount of roasted barley, black patent, or
>chocolate in the mash, maybe 4oz. or so. This will be a 10 gallon all
>grain batch with maybe a few pounds of flaked maze or something to "thin
>it out". I'm thinking tettnang, hallertau or something similar.
You've pretty well described my McGinty's Irish-American Red Ale.
Your suggestion of German hops would work fine.
Here is my post from February with the recipe. I've gotten a lot of
positive feedback from other brewers who have brewed this. As I note
on the preface, a single step infusion works fine - that's how I do
it now.
Hope this fits the bill (Buffalo Bill, that is).
Jeff
0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:23:39 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: alternative St Paddy's brew
Brewers
Let me suggest an alternative to stout or green beer that I suggest
every few years, Irish-American Red Ale. Here is my post from
several years ago. I've received good feedback from happy brewers.
Feel free to substitute ingredients or modify procedure, of course.
There's just time to brew it if you keg and force carbonate. A
little iffy for bottling but it should work.. A mash note - I have
done this since my original post with a single step infusion and it
worked fine. I used gelatin to clear the beer before kegging.
Don't worry about Cluster if you can't get it. And Wyeast or White
Lab's Irish yeast is essentially the same (Guinness) as YeastLab's,
which is no longer produced.
Let me know how it turns out if you do brew it.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-=-
It's about time to think about brewing a beer for a St. Paddy's Day
party. How about something different from the usual stout or green
beer, something with an American touch?
I've made an Irish-American ale that I figure is similar to what was
served in Irish neighborhood taverns in the Northeast 100 years ago,
although I have no proof. Maybe like McSorley's? It's sort of a red
ale with corn, flaked barley, medium crystal and a touch of
chocolate. It's a little stronger than a British session beer, a
little less than typical US beers (due to higher FG), and certainly
less strong than the authentic ales of a century ago, but they didn't
have to drive home then. This is popular with Killian's drinkers as
well as real ale fans as it has enough interest to hold them. Resist
the temptation to up the bitterness as it is inappropriate in this
style.
McGinty's Irish-American Ale
5.25 gallons at 1.044
5.5 lbs 6-row (US 2-row should work, too)
1.75 lbs flaked maize
0.75 lbs flaked barley
0.5 lbs crystal 30L
2 oz. chocolate
Mash 154F 60 minutes. Actually, though, I did a 40/60/70C mash (30
minutes at each step) adding the corn at 60C. The 40C rest may have
helped break down beta-glucans in the barley, and passing from 40 to
60 over 30 minutes or so effectively gave me a protein rest, which
may have made the beer clearer. Irish moss might not hurt.
Bittering hops - Cluster (I used 3/4 oz for 19 IBU)
Finishing hops - Golding (Domestic would be fine) (I used 1/2 oz for
15 min. for 4 IBU and another 1/2 oz at knockout) (FWH might be nice
here)
Target 23 IBU
Irish Ale yeast YeastLab A05
OG 1.044
FG 1.015
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:12:59 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re:Recipe help
Hop_Head at webtv.net wrote:
Subject: Recipe help
"... I was thinking of an American Cream Ale. I would like
to make it reddish without adding too much flavor. How can I accomplish
this? I'm thinking a small amount of roasted barley, black patent, or
chocolate in the mash, maybe 4oz. or so. This will be a 10 gallon all
grain batch with maybe a few pounds of flaked maze or something to "thin
it out". I'm thinking tettnang, hallertau or something similar. The
people that will be going are not really "real beer" drinkers. I figure
if I brew a light ale with reddish color, I might be able to cure them
of their "fear of the dark". You know, anything darker than Bud is
"dark"..."
If you're really brewing for your friends, why add the coloring at all?...
Cream Ales made with maize are slightly more golden than Bud. If you want a
little more color, I'd suggest a 10 to 20L caramel malt in the 4 to 6 oz
range.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:23:09 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net>
Subject: Re: Underfermented IPA
Perez <perez at gator.net> wrote:
"I have an IPA (Harpoon Clone) that is under fermented. I have solicited
much advice from the great brewers of my homebrew club, The Hogtown
Brewers, but thought I would spread the wealth or the risk, as the case
may be. This is a potentially great beer if I can solve this problem.
Otherwise I have to do as one has suggested and drink it as is. As that is
the first advised solution I received I should say I am looking for others
that may suit my taste buds better.
The offerings are:
1 - Shut up and drink it!
2 - Purge the air out of a bottling bucket, open the bottles, pour them in
and
pitch some more yeast (1056 in this case).
3 - Pop the tops, drop a few grains of Nottingham, recap and see if that
works.
4 - Same as 3 but use one Prime Tab."
Options 3 and 4 seem like potential pyrotechnics. Any thoughts???
If it's under-fermented, I guess that I'd have to go with No.1... If what
you mean is it's uncarbonated, then No.3 would the be the best way followed
by No.4 (if No.3 doesn't work), short of forced carbonation in a keg.
I would definately urge you not to use method No.2 as oxidation or that good
ol'e cardboard flavor may result.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:31:32 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: priming concerns
From: David Brandt <jdlcr at flash.netdex.com>
>Sometimes when I prime my beer it foams. The last time it went nuts and
>almost overflowed the priming bucket.
> ...
>What causes this foaming at priming time, why can it foam at different
>rates, and does this occasional event encourage oxidization?
The fermentation creates CO2 and it dissolves in the green beer. Over time
the green beer becomes supersaturated with CO2. This simply means that
more CO2 is in solution than may theoretically be expected. It is similar
to boiling water in a glass container in a microwave. The lack of
nucleation sites in the smooth glass container can allow the water to
superheat well above the boiling point without bubbling. Disturbing the
superheated water can start a violent, sometimes explosive, boil.
In much the same way the supersaturated CO2 solution in the carboy is
looking for an excuse to foam. By racking the green beer it is disturbed
enough to release the excess CO2 as foam.
Provided that you are using a sealed fermenter this is easy to prevent. A
few days before bottling violently rouse the yeast morning and evening.
This is done by vigorously swirling the carboy to resuspend all the yeast
and trub that has settled to the bottom of the fermenter. The beer will
foam like crazy and the airlock will run like a machine gun. This is
actually good for your beer. It may force the fermentation to completion
by waking up some of the yeast for a bit and it releases the excess
dissolved CO2. Surprisingly it has been my experience that the "gunk"
quickly settles out and within 12 hours is as clear as it ever was. I
usually do this twice a day throughout my secondary and then leave the
carboy undisturbed for 24 hours before bottling. Using this rousing
technique reduces the amount of dissolved CO2 to 1 volume which makes for
consistent priming calculations because you always know the CO2 level
that the green beer is starting at.
As to whether the foaming in the bottling bucket causes oxidation. I
would say yes. The bubbles provide lots of surface area for the diffusion
of air into the beer. This may or may not matter depending upon how fast
the brew is consumed. The faster a brew is consumed the more forgiving
it is to oxidation - the O2 simply does not have enough time to do its
dirty work. That's why real cask ales that will be drank within a few
days can be allowed to fill with air.
Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152 phone
(206) 782-6766 fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:36:17 -0400
From: "Strom C. Thacker" <sthacker at bu.edu>
Subject: Removing chlorine/chloramine
Dan in Minnetonka cites A.J. deLange's recommendation to use campden
tablets to remove chlorine and chloramine from water:
>
>Also, from the Green Bay Rackers web site & A.J. deLange
>(http://www.rackers.org/newsletters/9811news.shtml):
>
>Another option is Campden tablets. You can effectively remove 3 mg/L of
>chloramine or 6 mg/L of chlorine from twenty gallons of water by
>adding a single
>695 mg Campden tablet. All you need to do is add the crushed Campden tablet to
>cold water, stir, and let it sit.
Is it necessary to add it to cold water, as Dan suggests, or is it ok
to add it to warm or hot water? I typically fill my mash tun with
hot tap water (~130F) to save time and propane. I've been using
campden tablets as directed, but not in cold water. Are they doing
any good?
Thanks,
Strom
Newton, MA
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:23:18 -0400
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Harvesting yeast for freezing
Denis,
Harvesting the kraeusen is a good way to get a small amount of pure yeast to
step up in a starter for later pitching.
In order to freeze yeast for long term storage you want the maximum amount
of yeast cells to survive the freezing and storage process. That was why the
author recommended yeast slurry. How a smaller number of cells would fare in
the same solution I don't know.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:48:25 -0400
From: Perez <perez at gator.net>
Subject: Underfermented?
Well it figures, I fell into that newbie trap of not giving enough info.
So let's fix that fopa, shall we. I made the partial mash version of the
Harpoon IPA clone from Clone Brews.
Mini Mashed at 154 deg F for 90 min
3.25 lb.. 2 Row Pale
.5 lb.. Crystal 60L
4 oz. Toasted 2 Row
1 oz. Roasted
Added then boiled 60 min
4 lb.. Alexander's Pale LME
1.5 lb. Muton's Light DME
Lots of Cascade and Fuggle Hops
Pitched Wyeast 1056 instead of the recommended 1098 from a
weak starter into a shaken carboy. Lag time was about 18 hours
and fermentation lasted about 4 days. Bottled early at 8 days.
Carbonation is fine. Hops are fine. It just tastes cloyingly sweet.
Not the nice malt body to support the great hop kick. I hope the
more complete picture helps you help me.
Thanks
Dave Perez
Gainesville, Fl
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:09:52 -0700
From: Jan-Willem van Groenigen <groenigen at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: pH
O.K., I promise that I will try to stop this thread, because I realize all
of you are probably fed up with pH by now....
Steve writes:
>Hubert is, as usual, correct. My samples were centrifuged rather than
>filtered and kept in a tap water bath, measured with a Denver AP-25
>http://www.denverinstrument.com/adlarge.htm with a stated accuracy of 0.002
>pH ) [at 22.4C +- 0.2C]. Probably the nicest 'tool' I own right up there
>with my Kubota. I am *NOT* implying accuracy beyond the capabilities, just
>regurgitating readings and the mean value of some repeated readings.
A pH meter with a stated accuracy of 0.002 is nothing special in science;
in our labs we have several of them (or even more accurate). However, that
does not automatically translate into readings with accuracy up to 0.002
(let alone three decimals). The problem, for one, is that your calibration
solution is only accurate up to 0.02 (or sometimes, 0.01) pH unit (as Matt
mentioned in his posting). And that is only with a new buffer solution.
After using it for a while, the pH will probably slip a bit. Therefore, it
does not make any sense to include a third decimal.
Steve, I don't argue with most of what Hubert says, but the whole quote
from his post was:
>It's possible to measure pH with a reproducibility of less than 0.02 - but
>only if you know about all the pitfalls and take care of them! If you don't,
>you may soon find your values far off (say more than 0.1, maybe 0.2) even if
>using a high end pH-meter, while another tester using simple equipment but
>paying attention to the pitfalls will be in the right ballpark!
Apart from the calibration issue, are you so confident that you avoided all
the pitfalls? for one, did you keep all three solutions AND the calibration
solutions within 0.1 degree Celcius, as Hubert requires for his accuracy?
That seems to be an achievement in itself, even in a water bath!
>The ~0.030 pH differences between fermenters are very real and
>reproducible.
I agree with you that reproducibility is very important. However,
reproducibility in terms of scientific experiments does NOT mean that you
measure your solution twice, and get the same reading. It DOES mean that
anybody can repeat your experiment, and will come up with the same results.
The guys who claimed they produced cold nuclear fusion in their lab a few
years ago probably measured what they saw several times, but unfortunately
it was not reproducible by other scientists, so now they are the laughing
stock of the scientific community. If somebody else would do your
experiment again, measure the pH again, and would come up with the same
numbers (in three decimals!), you would have proven the reproducability of
the results of your experiment. The fact that you get the same readings
twice is merely a matter of precision, not accuracy, and can be very
misleading.
You have insisted in the past that experimental results are only useful if
they come with a statistical significance level attached. Since you didn't
have any reps in your experiment, you cannot provide any significance level
with these results, and I'm very sceptical as to whether it would be
possible to prove significant differences based on differences smaller than
0.1 pH unit.
I would invite you to come up with any paper in a serious scientific,
peer-reviewed journal that has pH measurements with 3 decimals. If there
is, I'm sure there is a lenghty apology in the next issue.
Cheers, JW.
Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Jul 2001 13:23:26 -0700
From: joseph540 at elvis.com
Subject: electric brewing system
Dear all,
Thanks for keeping up a great forum! I hoped we might start a
discussion of the use of electric elements in brewing systems. It
seems to me a really elegant solution to the problems faced by those
of us who live in colder climates and want to brew indoors for much
of the year. But it is really hard to find such systems. My question
is -- why?
I am most interested in the use of electric elements to heat the
kettle, since that seems to be where there is real reluctance to
use electricity. The use of electric elements in mashing systems is
becoming more and more common with the spread of interest in RIMS
systems in the world of homebrew. A quick search of the web shows
that many people have figured out the benefits of using immersible
electric elements, sometimes coupled to temperature controllers,
in the hot liquor tank. But the use of such elements in the kettle
is still quite rare, and consequently the possibility of putting
together an all-electric 5 to 10 gallon (~ 20 to 40 l.) system
remains for the most part unexplored.
[I should note two prominent exceptions to this last comment.
One is the 5-gallon plastic system by Ken Schwartz
(http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/plasticbrew/electric.html), which
has received some comment on these pages. This is the extension
of the old "Bruheat" idea. The "Bruheat" seems to have fallen out
of favor, I guess because people did not like boiling in plastic.
The other, which has been oddly overlooked, is Ray Steinhart's truly
mind-blowing system (http://www.mastermolding.com/Beer/index.shtml),
which uses stainless Sanke kegs. The only commercially-produced
example I can find is the BC-50 "Brewing Comerade" by Stainless
Steel Specialists T.L. (http://www.stainlesssteelspec.com), which
looks spectacular, but is expensive.
The benefits of electricity are sort of obvious -- it is clean, and
it is well suited to indoor brewing since it does not produce carbon
monoxide, soot, etc. It is also possible to automate an all-electric
brewing system with temperature controllers, pumps, and the like.
This in itself should appeal to the tinkerers in our midst. For those who
want to get really into it, think of the possibility of going solar with your
brewing!
One of the big questions about electric elements to heat the kettle has
concerned scorching of the wort. Without a doubt, this is a problem, but
it does not seem insurmoutable. In response to a curious email, Ray
Steinhart noted that he has not had trouble with scorching in the kettle.
He uses four elements in the kettle, which he says creates a nice
circulation of the wort during boiling. By using 1100 watt elements, he
has also kept the watt density low. (He says he has had more
problems with scorching on the RIMS heater -- a problem he solved
with a temperature controller.) A less elegant solution might
involve using a commercial-grade electric element *below* the kettle,
with an aluminum or copper plate in between to diffuse the heat more
evenly.
(We should also recognize that scorching/caramelizing is not only a
problem with electric elements. Look at propane burners like the
King Kooker!)
I myself am not a great tinkerer. There are now lots of really nice
propane-fired all-grain systems available commercially. I would love to
see some more electric alternatives. I should say that I have no axe to
grind here. I am just toying with ideas. What do others think? Are
there other problems that I am not seeing? Anyone out there have
experience using electric heating elements that they want to share?
Joe Gerteis
Hello? Hello? Hello?
- --Joe Broccoli
- -------------------------------------------------
Get your free at Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com!
http://www.elvis.com
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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:05:51 +1200
From: "Richard T. Perry" <perryrt at hotmail.com>
Subject: Silica Gel
Glen A. Pannicke asked about silica gel.
Now, I'm a beginning brewer (third batch last weekend!)
but as an aircraft mechanic, I'm fairly familiar with
silica gel.
You CAN get it in big tubs, Glen, but I recommend not.
The product we use out here (I work for Raytheon on a
US Army base at about 9N 168E) is called Dessicite 25,
made by Engelhard. It comes in packets of various sizes,
and meets a military spec (MIL-D-3464.) A quick web search
found a site talking about it -
http://jj-paper-packaging.com/engelhard.html
(I have no connection with them - just turned up first on
the old search engine.)
I recommend the product highly - they work great out here
in what's a pretty humid environment. To reactivate, you
drop in an conventional oven at 250ish for 12 hours.
One BIG safety note. Don't EVER get silica gel into anything
intended for consumption. I saw a torn packet get left out in
the weather (in the trash), and the birds got to it - that was
way up there on the list of sickest things I've ever seen.
It expands in water, see... like in a stomach.
Bad Thing.
That's why the packets are so nice - they're pre-sealed.
No hassle. Coupled with good packaging techniques,
they're great.
However, malt is different than aircraft parts, so read the
instructions before use, huh?
Regards,
Richard T. Perry perryrt at hotmail.com
"Fraser, there's a guy on my corner who asks me every
morning if I've seen God; do you really think he
expects me to point Him out?"
"Well, you know, Ray, if you did, perhaps he'd stop
asking."
Ray Vecchio and Benton Fraser, "Hawk and a Handsaw", Due_South
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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:11:04 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Recipe help
Brewers
An update on McGinty's Irish-American Red Ale. By coincidence, Bob
Barrett of AABG and HBD gave me a bottle of his latest example of
this brew for my opinion. I just tasted it and sent him this note.
"I've just opened the Irish-American Red ale. Very nice beer! When
I first opened it and poured it at fridge temp, it had little head
(although it was plenty carbonated) or smell. A taste gave me mostly
a little buttery diacetyl and little else except carbonation. Just
too cold. So I gave it ten seconds in the microwave and a shot with
a "pocket beer engine" (a syringe), which really opened it up.
"Now it is a very nice, easy drinking, balanced beer. I really like
balance in beer, although some unbalanced beers like IPA or stout are
nice too. Anyway, on the nose is a nice toasty caramel malt, with no
discernable diacetyl now, although that may be there just supporting
the malt, and some minty hops aroma. Smooth on the palate (knocking
down the high carbonation helps this), slightly sweet with some hops
flavor and low but noticeable hops bitterness. Nice finish with malt
sweetness vying with lingering bitterness.
"In other words, I like this beer!"
Hope this adds additional encouragement to brew this.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:22:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: Underfermented IPA?
Dave,
You have given us a diagnosis without giving us enough information to really
help you with the problem. What makes you think the beer is underfermented?
What was the Original Gravity(OG)? What was the Final Gravity (FG) ?
Or do you mean it is undercarbonated in the bottles?
How much priming compound did you use at bottling time? What did you use?
Sugar? Honey? Malt Extract? How long has it been in the bottles?
At what temperature?
It could very well be that the only required remedy is simple patience ...
If it really is undercarbed - i.e. you added too little primer at bottling
time - then #4 would be your best remedy. Underprimed is rarely (if ever)
because of too little yeast, but rather too little yeast food.
cheers,
-Alan
- --
"Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer."
- Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html
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