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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: A Stir Plate for Yeast Starters? (John Schnupp)
  re: Using bread yeast for bottling ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Harpoon IPA (Perez)
  Pittsburgh brewpubs ? ("Micah Millspaw")
  Sircam worm (Pat Babcock)
  Re: RIMS thermostat question (Rob Dewhirst)
  re. electric brewing systems ("Darryl Newbury")
  Re: Using bread yeast for bottling (Jeff Renner)
  Re: FWH (again, I'm sure) (Jeff Renner)
  Re: carboy magnetic stirrers (Stephen.F.Higdon)
  Cloudy beer == infection? (Dan.Stedman)
  stir plates & yeast damage ("Alan Meeker")


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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:34:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A Stir Plate for Yeast Starters?

From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
>The hard part about 5 gal stir bars is that the bottom of most carboys
>are convex and it is hard to place the stir bar close to the magnet source.
>I imagine a bit of home-engineering might get you there though. I couln't
>get it to work with my regular carboys, and haven't tried it on my Pyrex
>carboy since I acquired it.

I've built my own stirrer.  As Phil speculated, it is very difficult to get it
to work with a 5 gallon carboy.  I have the ability on my stirrer to
raise/lower the motor/magnet assembly.  Even with it raised to the limit, the
coupling is not very good due the to thickness of the glass in the center
(break a carboy sometime and you'll see what I mean).  I have, OTOH, been able
to get decent coupling thru a 3 gallon carboy.  I would think that a starter
made in a 3 gallon carboy would be adequate for any home brewing purposes. 




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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:23:25 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Using bread yeast for bottling

Bill Graham writes about a batch that's been lagering for a number of months,
he's worried about the yeast and asks about pitching some bread yeast.

Bill says:
"But being that I've been laid-off for the second time this year( sigh ), I'd
rather not buy beer yeast, but use bread yeast of which I've got at least 1/2
pound. Will this give any off flavors? Will it carbonate the beer at 75F? I
can't imagine it adding any goofy flavors, but I thought a quick check with
the collective might be in order."

Bad luck about the job situation, hope that changes soon - but I'd reconsider
using bread yeast. One of the reason that brewers use so many different
varieties of yeast is that they each contribute different flavors to the beer.
Bread yeast will certainly ferment your beer but could contribute "goofy
flavors" (nice technical term).

A sachet of good quality dry brewing yeast should be under one dollar. If that
is still more than you want to spend, you could probably get some yeast free
from your local brewpub or another home brewer. If these options aren't
available, try making a starter from some unfiltered, unpasteurized micro-brew
(or from your own batch of beer). It'd be a shame to risk off flavors in your
beer at this point . The long lagering should yield a very clean product and
you'd be more likely to detect any off flavors from bread yeast.

As to the 75F temp, that sounds just about perfect. You want the beer to
condition in that temp range as it will encourage the yeast to ferment and
carbonate your beer in a reasonably short period of time - but not too high as
that can cause other flavor problems.

good luck with the batch,

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL



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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:09:11 -0400
From: Perez <perez at gator.net>
Subject: Harpoon IPA

Jay Wirsig asks for a Harpoon clone.  I hope this works better all grain.

Mash at 150F for 90 min.
11 lb. British 2 Row Pale
8 oz. 60L Crystal
4 oz. Toasted 2 Row Pale
1 oz. Roasted Barley

90 min. boil with
enough Clusters for 9 HBU bittering

Last 15 min. add flavor hops
1/2 oz Fuggle
1/2 oz. Cascade
Irish Moss (not for flavor obviously)

Last 1 min add aroma hops
1/2 oz Fuggle
1/2 oz. Cascade

Use Wyeast 1098 British Ale yeast

I hope this helps.  Tell me how it comes out if you decide to try it and
if you modify the recipe in any way interesting.

Dave Perez
Gainesville, FL



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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:15:37 -0500
From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa at silganmfg.com>
Subject: Pittsburgh brewpubs ?


I will be in the Pittsburgh / Monroeville area of 
PA next week, anyone have recommendations
 for good brew pubs in that part of the world ?

TIA

Micah Millspaw - brewer at large





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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:37:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Sircam worm

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your virus scanner...

The Sircam worm seems to have taken ecveryone by
surprise! The HBD server is being inundated with the
output from this worm. If you are using a WIndows machine
 - even if you believe you are not infected - please get an 
up-to-date virus scanner and make sure you're clean.

If you suddenly find yourself not receiving the HBD (barring
this upcoming Saturday, when delivery will be temporartily
interrupted by me), you PC has sent the worm to an HBD.ORG
address. My response to this is to add your address to the deny
file for mail. If you *think* this has happened to you, send the
word "status" to req at hbd.org. If we are blocking you, you'll
receive an error back which will state:

   550 You are propagating the sircam worm. We can no longer
       accept mail from you.

If you receive this from the hbd server, take your machine
offline and clean the worm from your system. You will then need
to contact the Janitors via some means other than email (we
cannot receive email from you while you are in the deny file) to
have your address removed from the deny file.

More information regarding the removal of this worm can be found
at http://www.umich.edu/~virus-busters/sircam.html.

Please use the net RESPONSIBLY! 


- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock

"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday




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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:52:19 -0500
From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: RIMS thermostat question


>
>I'm ready to assemble my rims system and would appreciate
>hearing  where others experienced with RIMS locate their
>thermostat probe.

I believe the best place for it is on the exit side of the heating chamber.

Putting the grain bed between the heating chamber and the thermostat is 
basically insulating the thermostat from the heating element.  You want a 
rapid, accurate response from the stat, not long lag.

I've never seen more than a 1 degree difference in mash temp with my probe 
on the exit side.

This also helps in case the flow gets plugged.  The chamber will heat up 
and the stat will shut the element off. (Yes, a flowmeter would be better. 
Some day.)



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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:16:01 -0500
From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl at sagedesign.com>
Subject: re. electric brewing systems

Alan McKay writes: 
>An e-friend of mine (awesome beer, BTW, Brian!) is using an electric
>system and
>swears it's the way to go.
>
>Unfortunately I just recently bought a house and this is what takes up
>most of
>my time and money at the moment, so laying out cash for a new brewing
>system has
>to get prioritized somewhere between a new washer-and-dryer, and
>renovating the
>kitchen and bathroom :-

Maybe you have a priority problem Alan - washer and dryer do not come
before the brewery! Maybe the solution is to incorporate your brewing
system into the new kitchen, your wife seems like a nice reasonable and
understanding women, I'm sure she'd undertand that you need a built in
100, 000 BTU burner in the kitchen. 

That said, we've been in our new home for a year now and I still haven't
completely set up my brewery ... fortunately my sweet, understanding wife
lets me brew on our gas stove in the kitchen.

Cheers Darryl



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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:17:09 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Using bread yeast for bottling

Bill Graham <goldencity1 at home.com> in malty Golden, Colorado wrote:

>I've got 2 5 gallon batches of CAP
>that have been lagering at about 34F for 5 months now.  ... I'd 
>rather not buy beer yeast, but use bread yeast of which I've got at 
>least 1/2 pound. Will this give any off flavors? Will it carbonate 
>the beer at 75F? I can't imagine it adding any goofy flavors

Don't do it!  Bread yeast is very powdery and doesn't settle out very 
well at all, and stirs up very easily.  It also has a yeasty taste. 
You've got that beautiful lagered CAP, don't ruin it now.

Maybe you could get some fresh lager yeast from a local microbrewery 
(I don't supposed you could go up to the front door of the local 
macrobrewery with a mason jar in hand and get very far).  Or perhaps 
a local homebrewer could spare some from a primary fermenter.  You 
might even be able to culture some from your lagering tank.  Five 
months isn't too long.

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend bread yeast, although I'm sure it would 
carbonate it.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:08:38 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: FWH (again, I'm sure)

Doug Hurst <DougH at theshowdept.com> of Chicago, IL wrote:
>I guess I don't fully understand First Wort Hopping.
<snip>
>Don't you get much higher bitterness
>extraction with FWH since the hops are in throughout the entire boil?  I
>tend to think of it as being similar to a bittering addition, in terms
>of utilization.   Not only that, but won't the aromatics be driven off
>during the boil?

Glad to have been an inspiration.  Bob Barrett's example was an 
inspiration to me to brew it again soon, too.

FWH is indeed counterintuitive in the ways you suggest.  However, the 
German taste panels found that Pilsners that were FWHed were not more 
bitter, but had a more pleasing, clean bitterness than those which 
were not, even though they assayed higher IBUs.  Such beers also have 
a nicer hops flavor, in my experience.  I would substitute FWH for 
the 15 minute addition in this case., and since it is a low 
bitterness beer, I probably would drop the bittering hops by a 
similar amount.  I think the FWH bitterness contribution would be 
noticeable in such a case.  It was for my Farmhouse Cream Ale that is 
very similar.

For more detail, check out http://brewery.org/library/1stwort.html or 
the HBD archives, although that would be a daunting challenge.

Let me know how it turns out if you do brew it.

Then in private email, Doug wrote:

>The article seems to indicate exactly what you are saying, which (if I
>understand correctly) is to add your bitterness and flavor hops as FWH.

No - just the flavor hops.  The bitterness hops go in as usual at the 
beginning of the boil or shortly thereafter.  I tried FWH with 
Cluster and the results were not pleasant.  A very strong berry or 
black currant flavor which I didn't like.  Most of this boils off 
when used as a normal bitter addition.

I have used bittering hops as FWH using hops that are normally flavor 
or aroma hops with success as have others.  I made a pale ale with 
one addition of 12% Columbus as FWHs and rather liked it.  I also 
tasted a Hallertauer FWH-only Helles by Steve Alexander.  Very nice 
but though of style - too much hop flavor and aroma for style.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:54:54 -0400
From: Stephen.F.Higdon at am.pnu.com
Subject: Re: carboy magnetic stirrers

  I've used Teflon stir bars in the primary fermenter (6.5 gal carboy) 
  for the first 2-3 days, with highly flocculant strains, with nice 
  results. A 2 inch bar is plenty big enough to create a nice vortex in 
  the beer.  You can boil the Teflon bars before adding to fermenter.  
  
  Sometimes I must tilt the carboy so that the stir bar slides to the 
  bottom (so I cam see where it is exactly).  Then I carefully slide the 
  carboy so that the stir bar 'hooks up' with the motor magnet, you can 
  see this happen.  Then slide back to center.  I slowly increase the 
  RPM's so as not to uncouple the stir bar from the magnetic pull.  I 
  have used this for yeast starters also, and I'm sure it reduces lag 
  time, and increases fermentation rate and cell counts. It's certainly 
  not necessary in most cases, but many things are fun to try and may 
  actually help in some way.  
  
  Be sure your magnetic stirrer is heavy duty enough to handle the size 
  and weight of a carboy!  Also the strength of the magnet determines how 
  well this works, the greater the distance between the bar and magnet, 
  the stronger your magnet will need to be, especially at higher rpm's 
  and densities.      


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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:11:49 -0500
From: Dan.Stedman at PILLSBURY.COM
Subject: Cloudy beer == infection?



Hi all - well, it looks like I have found a new way to infect my beer (after
having quite a few nice, clean batches). I brewed up a nice ESB a few weeks ago
using the Wyeast London ESB yeast. Know for those of you that haven't used this
yeast, it falls out like a brick. I had to keep rousing it just to get it to
ferment out, but it eventually did and I was left with nice crystal-clear beer.

So I proceed to keg it up in a couple of soda kegs that I had PBW'ed a week
earlier. Now PBW is only a cleaner & not a sanitizer, so I believe this is where
I went wrong. I carbonated the chilled kegs, and the beer was nice and clear in
the glass (and tasted great!) for the first couple of days . Then a haze started
to form, and now it is not even close to being clear and the flavor has changed
significantly. I suspect that it has a bacterial haze, but I was wondering if
anyone knew what specific bacteria it might be? I chilled it down to 35F right
after kegging, and I guess I have always heard that once the wort is fermented
out that it isn't a very friendly environment for infections - is this a myth?
In the future I will be StarSan'ing everything that touches my beer (including
my kegs), but I would still like to know what bacteria it is that can work at
35F in beer and results in turbidity? Lactobacillus? Pediococcus?

thanks in advance,
Dan in Minnetonka





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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:13:46 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: stir plates & yeast damage


In a recent digest, Mike Lemons asks,

"Wouldn't a magnet moving at high speed damage the yeast?"

In short, the answer is no, not with the forces generated by typical
laboratory benchtop mag stirrers. Yeast are terribly resilient and, in fact,
it is a pain in the butt when we want to open them up in the laboratory to
liberate the "goodies" inside the yeast cells. Their cell walls are quite
tough so the yeast cells can handle a lot of stress without breaking open.
Of course, this is not necessarily true for unhealthy, starved, or otherwise
stressed yeast. However, since we are talking about *starters* here, there
is no problem whatsoever.

 -Alan Meeker
Lazy Eight Brewery
"Where the possibilities are endless"
Baltimore, MD





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