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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  brewpubs in montreal & london (Cynthia Pekarik)
  Re: Cascade v. Centennial & Munich ("RJ")
  storing yeast ("David Craft")
  Re: Brew in contests and storing yeast ("Formanek, Joe")
  Re: Cascade v. Centennial & Munich (Joel Plutchak)
  Rose hips? ("Kensler, Paul")
  Re: Cascade v. Centennial ("Hertz, Jeffrey")
  Brewing for Competitions.... ("Dennis Collins")
  Cascade v. Centennial ("Leon Alexander")
  Adding gelatin as a clarifying agent (Walter J Doherty)
  Re:  venturi tube advice (stencil)
  Home grown hops (DarrenRP)


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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 06:56:09 -0400
From: Cynthia Pekarik <74163.1163 at compuserve.com>
Subject: brewpubs in montreal & london

Hi Folks

Quebec is Canada's beer mecca.

There are several brewpubs in Montreal but my 2 favourites are:

1. Dieau du Ciel
29 Laurier street, just west of St Laurent street
(514) 490-9555

GREAT Beer, friendly people - Head brewer started out homebrewing.
www.dieuduciel.com 
their web site lists whats on tap & is updated daily.

2. Cheval Blanc
??? Ontario street
Old style bar with Great Beer

You probably can get great lakes brewing news at dieu du ciel & it lists
every brewpub.

Travis

You are SOL for brewpubs in London.
The best micro in Ontario, Hart Brewing of Carlton Place, went under a
short while ago.
Sad times, No more "Dragons Breath".
(Dragon Stout of Jamaica threatened to sue for dragon name.)

Larry Kress
Rockwood, Ontario, Canada


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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:22:12 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Cascade v. Centennial & Munich

James Davis <jdavis1987 at home.com> wrote:

"I was recently told that Paddy Pale Ale of Wild Onion Brewing outside of
Chicago uses centennial, not cascade hops. I could swear it uses cascade
 - it is an extremely hoppy APA style with a distinctly bitter/citrusy
character that I though was cascade. Is centennial close in taste/aroma
to cascade?"

Yes, the Centennial hop is often used as the bittering component in an
otherwise all Cascade brew... Very similiar but much higher in alpha acids.

Another hop that I recently got a sample of called Ahtanum is also similar
to Cascades, but less citrusy IMHO more orange-like vs. grapefruit-like.  It
has roughly the same alpha as Cascades.





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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:50:08 -0400
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: storing yeast


Thanks for the replys on beers going to judging. All good observations!

No one answered my question about storing yeast. I split a starter and am
storing it in the fridge in a quart bottle. Should I pour off the beer and
add some distilled water? Does the yeast sitting on all that alcohol get
damaged?

 I plan on using the yeast in about a month, restarting, splitting it again,
and using it in December. I try to get three fermentations out of one yeast
pack.


David B. Craft



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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:11:20 -0500
From: "Formanek, Joe" <Jformanek at griffithlabs.com>
Subject: Re: Brew in contests and storing yeast 

David,
	I too was wondering, and worried, about the effect of shipping the
beers out to CA for the Nationals.  Knowing that it would take 4 days to get
my entries to LA from Chicago, and not wanting them to be sitting in a
warehouse over the weekend, I sent them off on a Monday - arrived on a
Friday.  Unfortunately (for me), none of them placed this year )^8~  
	Curious about how the beers fared in transit, I gathered as many of
my entries back as I could after the competition and tried a few and shared
them with other judges I knew out there.  Didn't see any problems that could
be attributed to the shipping.  Afterwards, I even hauled a few of these
entries back home with me on the plane (wonder if we'll ever be able to do
THAT again), and stuck them in the fridge.  A couple of these bottles were
my American Brown entry that got smacked in the 2nd round.  I entered these
same bottles that had traveled to LA and back in a local competition in
Chicago a week ago, and it took BOS.  Go figure!  

Cheers!
Joe Formanek


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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:29:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Cascade v. Centennial & Munich

In HBD #3739, James Davis asked:
>I could swear it uses cascade - it is an extremely hoppy APA style
>with a distinctly bitter/citrusy character that I though was cascade.
>Is centennial close in taste/aroma to cascade?

   I think it's different enough to be distinguished, as I
get more orange-spice from Centennial than the straightforward
grapefruit of Cascades.  However, I still get judges who write
comments like "Nice Cascade aroma" on scoresheets for my beers
that don't get near a Cascade hop cone, so it's apparently
close enough to be confusing.  (And I wouldn't want to be
put to the test myself.)

>As a side note there is apparently significant damage to the cascade
>hops supply this year - anyone have any info on that?

   Got email from a connected friend yesterday.  The report
is that there were a couple problems with a lot of the
Washington crop, so Cascades, Galena, Chinook (one of my
faves), Columbus, etc., may be somewhat scarcer this year.
Perle and Willamette are two varieties that reportedly will
be around in about "normal" volumes.  (Apparently conditions
in the Oregon fields were better.)  Alpha acid for most
varieties is reported higher over last year.
   I should note that on the homebrew scale, I haven't seen
a whole lot of change in availability or price in the past
several years-- hops are still a great value, especially
when you consider the joy they bring. ;-)
- -- 
Joel Plutchak     "As you get older you quickly realise that standing
plutchak at [...]     toe to toe with an insane man and flying responses
                   back and forth is a waste of time." - nowhere man



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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:53:36 -0400
From: "Kensler, Paul" <PKensler at cyberstar.com>
Subject: Rose hips?

There has been a recent discussion lately about rose hips...  what's the
point in using them?  Do they contribute any significant flavor or aroma?
What is the flavor / aroma - like roses?  I am totally unfamiliar with them
 - what are they generally used for?  Are the hips from different kinds of
roses significantly different from each other?


Thanks,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD


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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:53:13 -0500
From: "Hertz, Jeffrey" <Jeffrey.Hertz at nuveen.com>
Subject: Re: Cascade v. Centennial 

>>>James Davis asks-Is centennial close in taste/aroma to cascade? 
Centennial is sometimes referred to as a "super cascade"-because they are
very similiar in flavor, being very "grapefruity", but Cent. has a much
higher alpha, so it does come off a bit differently.  By comparing beers
made with one or the other, you can usually pick out which one is being used
- --i.e.- SNPA vs. Celebration ale.  Obviously the difference in bitterness is
some of why they taste different, but I think there are some flavor
differences too.  One happy example-I was lucky enough to have two pints of
Bell's Two Hearted the other night (on hand pull no less...yummmm) and I
think I've heard that it uses only or mostly Centennial.  I'm not the most
astute at picking out one hop variety versus another, but I could pretty
much tell that it wasn't a Cascade I was tasting.  As a sideline, the two
combined is a very nice flavor too, especially in an American style IPA.  I
did one earlier this year using both that was my favorite beer I've ever
done.  My two cents...

Jeff



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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:02:33 -0400
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Brewing for Competitions....

Posting has been light lately, so I thought I might share an opinion with
the collective.  Also, given the fact that I don't have much experience in
brewing for competitions (3 and counting), please take the following
comments with a grain of salt (malt?).

My personal opinion is.....don't brew for competitions or judges.  That
doesn't mean don't enter, quite the contrary.  I think competitions are
great.  It's a great forum for homebrewers to congregate, exchange ideas,
and recognize great beer.  It's also great way to propagate the hobby to
others.  But......

It seems like sometimes the competition part overshadows the subtleties and
differences that make each beer and individual palette unique.  In the end,
you will be stuck with the majority of beer that you make, so you had better
like it.  A comment offered by a judge doesn't mean the beer will taste
better, it just means that the particular judge would have scored it higher.
The two don't necessarily go hand in hand.  Besides, competitions are
usually very tough.  There are some very good brewers out there, and any
competition with 150+ entries is bound to have a bunch of these very good
brewers present.  Sometimes, several of the same beers entered in these
competitions have already won a first or a second in another recent
competition.  Just because your beer doesn't place, doesn't mean that it
isn't good, especially if you liked it to begin with.

I have enjoyed the competitions that I have entered and I've received some
really good comments that I have incorporated into my recipes.  I have also
received comments that made me think that the judges were eating sardines
between morphine drip IV's at the same time they were tasting my beer.  On
those occasions, I have simply agreed to disagree with the judges and have
continued to make the recipe that I like.

At the last competition, I tasted the gold medal winner from a national
competition, an Old Ale.  Frankly, that was the day I decided that I didn't
much care for Old Ale.  Was the beer good?  Certainly, it was a fine example
of Old Ale.  Would I want to brew it?  No.  Gold medal or not, I just didn't
care for it and I certainly wouldn't want 2 cases of it in the fridge.  I
could enter it in every competition until it ran out and win a first every
time, but then I'm brewing for someone else's palette, and not my own.
That's not why I'm a homebrewer.

Now before I get flamed, I need to say that I will continue to enter
competitions.  They are fun, educational, and great way to meet other
homebrewers.  But I will not brew a beer that I don't like, just because I
think it will do well in a competition.  My litmus test is always:  "Would I
want an entire case of this beer in my fridge?"  If the answer is "Yes, I
wish I had 5 cases", then I might even consider a 10 gallon batch.  If the
answer is "It would probably take me two years to finish that case", then I
probably won't waste my time.

The other thing I've noticed, and from reading other posts I guess others
have noticed it too, is that the beers at the extreme end of the taste
spectrum tend to do better at the competitions.  Someday I would like to see
a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (probably the finest example of an APA) entered and
then see it get a 26 because it lacked hop flavor.

This is just my opinion.  Homebrewing is and always will be a labor of love.
Brew for the enjoyment, and by all means, brew the beer that you
like.......but unless you are making a living at it, don't brew for the
judges over your own palate.

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN



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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 03:53:14 -0400
From: "Leon Alexander" <ltemalex at email.msn.com>
Subject: Cascade v. Centennial 

Cascade and Centennial are very similar.  Some people refer to Centennial as
a "high alpha Cascade".  I use Centennial often because it is good for
bittering, flavor and aroma.

Leon Alexander
Star City Brewers Guild



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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:33:53 -0700 (MST)
From: Walter J Doherty <wjd at U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Adding gelatin as a clarifying agent

Collective,

I racked a batch of amber into the secondary fermenter about a week ago
and added gelatin into the beer as I was siphoning.  I followed the
directions for use and everything, first dissolving in warm water, not
boiling, and poured it into the mix.

The problem is, it's been a week now and I still see globs of gelatin
floating around in the carboy.  Have I done anything wrong, is there
anything I can do, or will it clear up in the next week or so?

Thanks in advance for the input.

Wally Doherty
Tucson, AZ





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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 16:44:25 -0400
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: Re:  venturi tube advice

On Wed, 19 Sep 2001 00:11:20 -0400, 
in    Homebrew Digest #3739 (September 19, 2001)

Greg Speiser & Cynthia Sawatzky <gregspeiser at home.com>
wrote
>Questions:
>
>Any pics of similar tubes also appreciated.
>
>Greg
>

Consider
http://www.deedeesaltwater.com/Kent/FiltersR/vv.html

Runs under $20 from aquarium suppliers.  The venturi
action is optimized when the bore tapers smoothly down to
the point of air inlet (thus providing maximum velocity
past the inlet) and then widens out again.  You can
approximate this by using an adapter to neck your tubing
down to the next smaller diameter for 6-in or so of lenth,
insert a tee for air inlet, another 3-in of small tubing,
and then adapter back up to your standard diameter.  But
by this time you've already spent the price of the molded
plastic gizmo.  Whichever way you go, ensure that the
airline feeding the inlet has its input end well above the
highest possible level of the wort.

FWIW, I think it's over-engineering.  A $10 aquarium air
pump and disposable plastic airstones in the primary will
do as well.

stencil sends
RKBA!





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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 17:23:42 EDT
From: DarrenRP at aol.com
Subject: Home grown hops

I planted hops in my yard for the first time this year
and I got a few ounces to harvest.  The first batch I
put in a food dehydrator to dry and they turned
brownish when done.  A second batch I just let dry in
open air and they still look nice and green.  My
question is, did I ruin the first batch by using the
food dehydrator?  Should I just toss out the brownish
hops?

Thanks in advance.

Darren



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