---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Two Questions ("D Perry")
  Beer Mathematics (Ant Hayes)
  Propane indoors ("The Clark's")
  Re: Conditioning/aging questions ("RJ")
  Re:Covering exposed wires on heater elements ("RJ")
  pumpkins (Marc Sedam)
  Re: propane indoors ("Robin Griller")
  Calling All Geeks ("Ray Daniels")
  Electric Wire waterproofing ("TAL MCMAHON")
  Natural kegging and dispensing (Denis Bekaert)
  RE: discolored immersion chiller ("Bissell, Todd S")
  re: discolored immersion chiller ("Tidmarsh Major")
  Cheap brewing tricks 101 ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Rauchroggenscharzweissbier (Jeff & Ellen)
  When to stop sparging (Danny Breidenbach)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 23:18:39 -0700
From: "D Perry" <daperry75 at home.com>
Subject: Two Questions

I'll keep this short.  Do you have to fill a five gallon keg right up, ie is
half full ok?  And can you use 4 litre plastic milk jugs for starting yeast
in?

Dave



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:07:06 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Beer Mathematics

In a bit of fun, Mark Tumarkin wrote,

"First of all, pick the number of times a week that you would like to
have a beer (try for more than once but less than 10"

My doc says that 21 beers a week is healthy (as part of a kilojoule
controlled diet, etc.) - I am still busy convincing my wife. Posts like
Mark's make my job more difficult!

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg; South Africa
Rennerian coord approx = [13 656; 125] distance in km; true bearing


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:28:26 -0400
From: "The Clark's" <rtclark at citynet.net>
Subject: Propane indoors

The biggest concern I would have with brewing with propane would be having
the propane tank indoors.   Bear in mind that propane is heavier than air
and, if a leak were to develop, it will collect in the lowest places.   If
it then were ignited, it could possibly move your house off it's foundation.
The "significant other" may take a dim view of this.

They do make devices which will monitor for the presence of flammable gases.
All new motorhomes have them.    A Carbon monoxide monitor would be a good
idea as well.

Tom Clark



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:58:05 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Conditioning/aging questions

Mike in CT <misaacs at bigfoot.com> wrote:

"I brewed a belgian ale a month ago and the ferment just finished. Similar
Belgian recipes I have studied suggested aging the beer. I need some advice
on my next step. A little about the recipe, fermented a little warmer and
longer than I anticipated:
<snip>
Would this beer benifit from aging a bit? If so, for how long, at cellar or
serving temps, before or after carbonation?"

Hey Mike,

Since we're talking ale here, my suggestion would be to force carbonate as
planned (when brite), then condition at fermenataion temps for a week to 10
days... Then cool and serve... in the 45-55 degree range.




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:02:04 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re:Covering exposed wires on heater elements

Kevin McDonough <kmcdonou at nmu.edu> wrote:

"I have just installed two hot water heater elements in my HLT and boiling
kettle.  I am trying to find an effective way of covering the exposed
element wires.  I could always cover them with electrical tape, but I would
like better water resistance when I clean the kegs.  Any suggestions?"

Hey Kevin,

You could try shrink tubes or tape.. Radio Shack or similair should be able
to help you out.





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:14:31 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: pumpkins

All this talk about pumpkin ales made me want to float a
suggestion out on the HBD.  I bought 5lbs of pie pumpkins (2
whole pumpkins) , split, seeded, and roasted in the oven
with 1/4lb of dark brown sugar in the hollow--just like mom
used to make squash.  So I have about 3.75lbs of roasted
pumpkin meat and a pound of carmelized brown sugar in the
fridge.

I was planning to make a pumpkin porter (no
spices...please!), but wanted to know if the amount of
pumpkin I'm using is better for a 5 gallon or 10 gallon
batch.  I'm going to throw it in the mash of my all-grain
recipe.  Thoughts are appreciated.

Cheers!

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC
[148, 510] Rennerian
- --
RED CROSS DISASTER RELIEF FUND
http://www.redcross.org/donate/donate.html





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:17:30 -0400
From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g at ica.net>
Subject: Re: propane indoors

Hi all,

I must have missed Gary's earlier post, but there is one thing I have to
say: propane tanks should *never* be stored or used indoors. I've told this
story before, but I have a friend who flattened his house, with his family
home, brewing with propane indoors. Fortunately everyone survived, though
he spent a couple of months in hospital. Can people not have their burners
rejigged for natural gas? Propane and homes do not mix, propane indoors is
simply dangerous.

Robin



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:34:39 -0500
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Calling All Geeks

Hello All:

The backlog of contributions to "For Geeks Only" column in Zymurgy is a bit
low at the moment, so anyone who has a project underway or completed but not
written up, give me a shout.  Ideas for possible projects also of interest.

Ray Daniels
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy & The New Brewer
E-mail:  ray at aob.org

Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual
magazines.

For more info see: www.beertown.org




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:35:34 -0500
From: "TAL MCMAHON" <TAL.MCMAHON at menasha.com>
Subject: Electric Wire waterproofing

In response to the post about what to use to waterproof
electric wiring.  I have found that Hot melt glue and silicon 
caulking work the best.  I have used them both for waterproofing
wiring on boats and have had no problems at all.  The Hot Glue works
the best for wiring that I may need to take apart someday as the 
soldering iron cuts through it like butter.  the silicon works well in that 
it is very flexible and can withstand constant movement without 
causing a hard spot that a wire can bend at and kink off.  

just a couple ideas.





Tal McMahon Milwaukee, Wi

"Mmmmm-- Beer"  --Homer.......(Simpson)





Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Denis Bekaert <Denis-B at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Natural kegging and dispensing

I have been mostly kegging my beers since last Spring,
although I still do bottle some styles and for giving
to friends and family.  My kids in Texas and Florida
are always asking me to bring them homebrew when we
visit, which of course pleases me greatly....but it
does present me with a bit of problem that I'd like
some help with from the collective...

I keg, chill, and force carbonate my beers for home
and local consumption, but am wondering if natural
carbonation via priming with 5 ounces of corn sugar
per five gallons of beer will last for the entire keg,
especially if it is not kept cold.  I don't mind
having a keg of beer at 10-15 psi in my car trunk, but
I sure don't want to travel with a 10 pound CO2
cylinder as a potential rocket.  

If the natural carbonation method would last in
dispensing the entire keg at cool-to-warm temperatures
over a month or so, I'd brew some extra kegs for the
family and leave them rather than messing around with
bottles and cases.  Naturally, I would hate to have my
lovely beer go flat in the keg before it ran out.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on this?

God Bless America and all those against terrorism...


Denis in Beechgrove, Tennessee where moonshine is our
history, but homebrew is our passion.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:07:37 -0700
From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: RE: discolored immersion chiller


>> Tidmarsh Major has trouble with his immersion chiller:
>> "Recently I've noticed some black discoloration on my copper immersion
>> chiller. The discoloration is uneven and spotty <snip>  I noticed
verdegris
>> forming on parts of the coils after soaking in PBW. <snip>  I soak the
>> kettle & chiller in a hot PBW solution (1/2 c. to 9 gal) for up to an
hour
>> before draining and cleaning."
>>
>Tom Williams said:
>Perhaps one of the HBD metallurgists could comment on the process forming
these
>deposits on Tidmarsh's copper chiller.  I don't know what PBW is
>(iodine? bleach?), but it sounds like the source of the corrosion deposits.
>
>My contribution to the discussion is this:  Why do you do this to your
>immersion chiller?  One of the benefits of an immersion chiller over a
>counterflow chiller is that this type of sanitizing is not necessary.  I
>suggest that you simply rinse the chiller thoroughly after brewing,
removing
>any solid particles stuck to it, and then on the next brew day, boil it in
>the wort kettle for a few minutes prior to starting the cooling water flow.
>I suspect that boiling is more effective than the chemical sanitizers
>anyway.
>

Just to throw my two pfennings into the fray, I would fully agree with Tom's
comments, especially in regards to shying away from any chemicals/cleaners,
when basic boiling works fine (I personally toss my chiller into the boil
kettle the last 15 minutes of the boil).

However, if discoloration of the copper is a real concern, just soak the
chiller in a solution of 1 gallon vinegar to 4-5 gallons of water, and
spray-off and air-dry before use.

Cheers!

Todd Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:53:28 -0500
From: "Tidmarsh Major" <tidmarshm at home.com>
Subject: re: discolored immersion chiller

From:           	Tidmarsh Major 
<tidmarshm at home.com>
To:             	"Tom Williams" 
<williams2353 at hotmail.com>,<post@hbd.org>
Subject:        	Re: discolored immersion chiller
Date sent:      	Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:56:18 -0500

On 14 Oct 2001, at 10:22, Tom Williams wrote:

>  I don't know what PBW is
> (iodine? bleach?), but it sounds like the 
> source of the corrosion deposits.

PBW is Powdered Brewery Wash from 5-Star 
products; it's a brewery cleaner, rather than a 
sanitizer.


>   I suggest that you simply rinse the chiller 
> thoroughly after brewing, removing
> any solid particles stuck to it, and then on 
> the next brew day, boil it in
> the wort kettle for a few minutes prior to 
> starting the cooling water flow.
> I suspect that boiling is more effective than 
> the chemical sanitizers
> anyway.

Sorry if my description wasn't clearer. I use 
PBW to clean my 
kettle _after_ brewing, and I soak the chiller 
in the PBW sol'n for 
awhile (that's a technical term), to loosen 
break etc. before rinsing.

I sanitize by putting the chiller in the wort 
for the last 15-20 mins of
the boil, as you suggest.

Regards,
Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Ala.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:36:21 -0700
From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Cheap brewing tricks 101

Hi all:

Just wanted to share a tip, that may or may not be "old hat" (or just silly)
to more experienced homebrewers.

I have an old wood cutting board that slides in and out from underneath my
apartment's countertop. When fully extended, it forms something a shelf, and
is within easy reach of the stove.

I cover it with a sheet of aluminum foil, and then take a Sharpie ink pen,
and draw 4-5 lines vertically, and one horizontal line near the bottom.
Warning = cheesy ASCII-art forthcoming:

  |  |  |  |
  |  |  |  |
  |  |  |  |
  |  |  |  |
  |  |  |  |
- -------------
60|20|15| 5|

In the "60" area, I have whatever Bittering hops I plan on boiling for 60
minutes. In the "20" area, I have the Flavoring hops I plan on boiling for
20 minutes. In the "15" area, I write down "chiller" (which reminds me to
toss my immersion chiller into the boil to sanitize it), as well as some
Irish Moss. And in the "5" area, the Aroma hops that will get tossed in the
last 5 minutes of the boil.

What's the point? This is how I keep track of what I need to do, and
when..., very handy after a few cold homebrews.... :)  Of course, the times
and number of "staging areas" can easily be customized for each
recipe/brewing session. And clean-up obviously is nothing more arduous than
balling up a piece of aluminum foil.

It works for me, YMMV. I'd love to hear of other "home-grown" quick-and-easy
tips like this, either Posted on the HBD or off-post@ bis9170 at hotmail.com.

Cheers!

Todd Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:16:21 -0400
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: Rauchroggenscharzweissbier

Tony Barnsley wrote about a smoked wheat beer with rye.  I've made several 
successful attempts at a smoked weizenbock over the past few years.  The 
smoke works well with the sweet style of a wheat beer, but especially well 
with the stronger, maltier versions.  The banana esters seem to go well 
with the smoke.  I've also done a few rye beers lately.  It should add a 
nice spiciness to the flavor.  Your plan to mash the grist at different 
temps and then combine them with a hot water infusion should also work 
well, because the thinner the end mash the easier the sparge.  Make sure 
you raise the mash to a higher mash-out temp. before you start sparging and 
you should have no problem.  Unless of course this was all a joke.  In that 
case you forgot to add honey.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa, Florida (lost, Rennerian)



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:47:51 -0500
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu>
Subject: When to stop sparging

Kevin writes in HBD 3758:

> One more thing,  stop sparging when the extract coming out of the lauter
> tun reaches 1.010,  no matter how tempting it might be!   I oversparged a
> Scotch Ale once(drastically) and it sat in my cellar for a year while I
> waited for the phenolic character to diminish.  If you need to top it off,
> use filtered water.
>

So what is the practical method to know when you've hit 1.010 ... since
the outflow is warm to hot, and flowing, etc. all while you're trying to
float a hydrometer and do the calculations, whatever they are, etc.
When I don't even know that I'll have a free hand!!

Do I relax and ask my wife to measure the gravity of a sample?  And how
does one correct for the temp of the outflow?

Thanks,
- --Danny in West Lafayette, Indiana



Return to table of contents

---