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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Spent Grain Dog Biscuits (Lee)
  Re: pretzels / lye ("Arnold Neitzke")
  re: Sour Cherries ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Re: R.E. Porter ("RJ")
  Re: re: Sour Cherries ("RJ")
  Diacytil Rest/Wort Chillers (Perez)
  Beer Theme Cursors (Ken Schwartz)
  Red Devil Pretzels ("Bob Hall")
  Re: pubs in London (David Edge)
  Measuring Kettle Volume ("Houseman, David L")
  Brewpubs along the southern California coast ("Jan Willem van Groenigen")
  RE: Wort Chiller Efficiency (Steven S)
  Re: Stainless vs. Brass ("Craig Olson")
  The colour of porter (Skyking)


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Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 21:16:34 -0800
From: Lee <leebrews at home.com>
Subject: Spent Grain Dog Biscuits

I made the mistake of not printing this recipe out when I had the
opportunity. Would the  brewer who submitted it mind sending it to me at
leebrews at home.com? Many thanks.

Lee Smith
Heart of the Valley Homebrewers
Corvallis, OR 


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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 07:10:46 -0500
From: "Arnold Neitzke" <arnold_neitzke at ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: pretzels / lye

I sprayed my baking sheet with Mazola non-stick spray (corn oil) and they
popped right off, without much force at all.

I did have a small one on the edge that stuck quit hard, must have missed
that spot with the spray.

By the way, Jeff didn't bop me  for using the bread machine and even said he
thought he had suggested it for this type off operation. (Jeff is a
traditionalist bread maker and has the pop-eye arms to prove it, a needy
sort of person you could say :)

Arnold Neitzke
Brighton, Mi

>
> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:00:46 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Kerchefske <wadworth6 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: pretzels / lye
>
> Ok I'll bite,where do you get food grade lye? Or is
> this like the Alar thing? By the way I tried the
> recipe, great, only problem was that they stuck to the
> parchment paper. Too wet, thought about using some
> corn meal, or letting them dry on a rack rather than a
> towel. There might be something in that paper too,
> someone should check on that.




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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 08:09:04 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Sour Cherries

I noticed an error while reading my post about sour cherries. I wrote:

"There may be a variety of cherries used there as well, but one
of the common ones is the Sharbeek (sp?)cherry. Apparently, it's not all that
easy to get the right cherries even in Belgium. I remember reading that one of
the Belgian breweries (Rodenbach, I think) had to start contracting with
farmers in another country (Cezchoslovakia maybe) to grow the Sharbeek
cherries for them."

Well, the brewery wouldn't have been Rodenbach, as I know that they used a
cherry extract for their Rodenbach Alexander (which has been dropped from
their line since being acquired by Palm). I can't recall which brewery it was,
sorry. Do any of you know? or know of a source for a true Belgian sour cherry?

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 08:52:30 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: R.E. Porter

"David G. Humes" <dhumes001 at home.com>

"David,

I ran into the same problem with a Porter I made a few weeks ago.  When I
was formulating the recipe in Promash the color kept coming up too light
even though the amount of chocolate malt was consistent with other published
recipes claiming to have a higher SRM level.  My recipe used 80% pale, 6.8%
crystal 55, 6.8% caramel 60, and 6.8% chocolate.  I tried each of the color
estimation methods available in Promash with the following results.

Morey  30.4
Mosher 29.0
Daniels 24.6"

<snip>

"So, then I took Terry Foster's "Entire Butt" Porter recipe from his Classic
Style Series book on Porter and put it in Promash.  He claims it clocks in
at 50L.  Promash estimated 23 SRM.  Quite a disparity."

<snip>

Hey Dave's,

Check out this article http://pdlab.com/colormeasure2.htm
It talks about the various ways of color measurement... In using Lovibond,
for beer, anything 25 and over is Black, IMHO, anything described as over
that would be refering to opacity.  At any rate, the article goes on to say:

"It should be noted that the visual units start becoming highly suspect once
the full black regime is reached. For example, it is reported that highly
qualified national judges have been unable to correctly distinguish beers at
40, 50, and 60 degrees Lovibond.

A rule sometimes used by homebrewers is that the color contributed by a malt
is equal to its concentration in pounds per gallon times its color rating in
degL. For pale beers this rule can give reasonable results. For example, 10
pounds of pale malt with color 1.6 degL in five gallons should produce a
beer whose color is near 1.6 x 10/5 = 3.2degL. For darker colored beers,
this rule can give erratic results. Beers with an actual degL of 23 will be
predicted at 70+ using the simple degL/lb/gal calculation. There is a
software available with color calculator that is reported to be fairly
accurate and the recipe printout will show you the individual color
contribution of each component. The program reportedly takes into account
the color rating of the components, boil/steep time, boil size/batch size,
and spits out a number that matches reality as represented by the Davison
Chart."

RJ <aka Olde Phenomian>
43.50231 North by 71.65218 West






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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:17:27 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: re: Sour Cherries

"Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Peter asks about sour cherries -"

<snip>

Check out these sites:

http://www.brownwoodacres.com/cat-index.htm

http://www.ucarholding.com.tr/cherries.htm

You may also, be able to find them in the frozen food sections at your local
grocery store, I understand that they do not hold up as well as fresh, and
are often frozen or dried (canned & concentrated, too).

RJ <aka Olde Phenomian>
43.50231 North by 71.65218 West





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Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 11:52:41 -0500
From: Perez <perez at gator.net>
Subject: Diacytil Rest/Wort Chillers

It's been a while since I posted, so I thought what the
heck.

In recent posts and in the archives, many have discussed
doing gradual temp drops from diacytil (or die-eh-sit-il)
rest temps in the low 60's to lagering temps close to
freezing.  Others have told me that this 2 to 4 degree per
day drop is unnecessary.  I have just completed my first
diacytil rest, for my first lager and dropped the temp at a
moderate 7-8 degrees per day.  I call this beer Wanton
Woman Lager because Mark Tumarkin just can't wait to taste
the first lager he will love.  I'd like to hear some
thoughts on temp drops, crash or the slow chill?

Speaking of chill...  I like using an immersion chiller.
While it may be significantly slower than a counterflow, it
leaves a massive amount of cold break and hop sludge in the
kettle.  Since I don't use a secondary, I like as much
break material left behind as possible.

Dave Perez
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL
(872.4,174.3) Manifest Rennerian



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Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:09:13 -0700
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Beer Theme Cursors

I've added Beer Theme Cursors that you can add to your PC to my
website.  Follow the link below.  Scroll down to "SOFTWARE".  Download,
unzip, read the directions for installation and uninstallation.  Enjoy!

- --
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
Fermentaion Chiller / Winter Lagering Cabinet (and more) at
http://www.gadgetstore.bigstep.com
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com




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Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 12:23:07 -0500
From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall at hotmail.com>
Subject: Red Devil Pretzels

My wife and I made a batch of Jeff Renner's pretzels for the quarterly 
gathering of our impromptu brew club last evening. Very tasty and a great 
hit. Used the Red Devil lye from Wal-Mart ... no ingredients listed on the 
container other than 100% lye. They tend to be a bit sticky, so salt the 
parchment paper before arranging the pretzels for baking. Hardest part was 
getting the uniform "twist." Of course, you can let your creative 
imagination run wild!

Thanks Jeff.

Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH

PS. When serving to guests, I'd recommend that you not mention the lye until 
afterwards ;-).



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Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 19:52:05 +0000
From: David Edge <badger at sett.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: pubs in London

Jeff Gladish writes all sorts of helpful stuff about
drinking good beer in London all of which I'd endorse
except possibly:

 > Also look for the Cask Marque symbol at the entrance to
 > the pub.

Casque Marque approved pubs _tend_ to serve ale on the cold side. Start 
with a half just to be sure.

The Head of Steam at the front of Euston station - ask directions its well 
hidden is good and handy for me (ie under my desk).

David Edge
- --
Ralf and David Edge
Signalbox Brewery, Burton-on-Trent, UK


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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 12:34:37 -0600 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Measuring Kettle Volume

How do you all measure your kettle volume?  With a sight glass?  I use a
"dip stick" calibrated to my brew pot.  A problem is that the volume of the
wort is a function of the temperature isn't it?  Isn't there about a 11%
increase in volume at boiling temperatures?  Often I get less finished wort
than I thought I measured it when in the kettle when I measure the cooled
wort in my fermenter.  So I recalibrated my dip stick by using near boiling
water at the time.  Seems better but still slightly off.  Any suggestions on
getting this right?

David Houseman
SE PA


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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:51:55 -0800
From: "Jan Willem van Groenigen" <groenigen at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Brewpubs along the southern California coast

Hi all,

we're planning a week vacation to San Diego, starting next saturday.
Starting from Davis, CA, we'll be driving from Sacramento to Monterey. From
there, we are driving along the coast via San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara,
and Los Angeles to San Diego, and will stay there for a couple of days.
We'll drive back through the valley, and will stay in Visalia with friends.
Any brewpubs along this route that I should know about?

Jan Willem.



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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 21:43:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: RE: Wort Chiller Efficiency 


I go for the KISS (keep it simple stupid) methodology most of the time. A
immersion chiller is definatly KISS. I use a counterflow though. Why?
With my brewing setup (apartment kitchen) I have to move my brew pot near
the sink to cool with water anyway and transfer to my carboy. Since my pot
doesnt have a spigot i'm forced to siphon. In the time it takes to siphon
through the wort is reasonably cool to pitch and my water usage is much
less and overall time spent is less. To prevent clogging i've resorted to
using hop pellets in hop bags. Since then no clogs. 



 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net

"Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. 
And the tigers are getting hungry." Winston Churchill - 1937





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Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 23:50:02 -0800
From: "Craig Olson" <craigo at nas.com>
Subject: Re: Stainless vs. Brass

Thanks for all the great replies on the stainless/brass topic.  I soaked
the fittings today in the white vinegar & hydrogen peroxide solution and
while I wouldn't describe the color as "buttery", the color did change & I
could see stuff dissolving after just a few minutes.  I pulled out a stick
of butter just to check & figured it was close enough.  :-)   Still some
more tinkering to do but I'll post a link to some pics once I get the bugs
worked out and have brewed a few batches.  Thanks again for the help!

Dennis Collins wrote:
> Then there are those who have patched together
> their brewery with chewing gum, duct tape, and yes, brass fittings.

Duct tape!  Dang, why didn't I think of that?

Craig Olson
Lummi Island, Washington



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Date: 04 Nov 2001 16:53:59 +0100
From: Skyking <skyking at bredband.net>
Subject: The colour of porter


Lately David Craft asked about colour prediction of his porter:

8lbs Pale Malt
 .5 lb 60 L Crystal
 .5 lb Carapils
 .5 lb Aromatic
 .5lb Biscuit
1 lb Chocolate

First I guess that this is intended for a quite big batch of
porter (either big in volume or body or both). The amount of
chocolate malt is not too small. I usually use 5% chocolate and
7-8% crystal for ordinary porter (like Fosters Entire Butt) and
it yields a nice colour that IMHO is suitable for the style
(black at first glance, but really deep red in colour - not to
dissimilar to beamish). So I'd say you could easily cut back on
the chocolate and still get enough colour. I don't know how 28
SRM is supposed to look, but if it isn't what I've described then
the prediction of the colour is clearly wrong (often the methods
claims decent accuracies at lower colours anyway). The only way
seem to be to try your recipe and then adjust recipe formulation
to get the right taste and colour.


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