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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  RE: Temperature Control (Adam_Griffiths)
  Warm Beer (Skyking)
  re: planispiral chiller construction (John Schnupp)
  Re: Full-wort boils (Jeff Renner)
  Propane Burners (Alan Monaghan)
  RE: making a starter ("Mike")
  NYC Club-Only contest ("Mike")
  Alcohol tolerance for 1007 yeast? (Paul Shick)
  Burnin' and Chillin' ("Charles R. Stewart")
  Yeast attenuation ("Schrempp, Michael")
  Carbonation ("Bailey, Kevin S")
  ancient beer recipe ("Milone, Gilbert")
  Propane Cookers ("Pete Calinski")
  Re: Full-wort boils ("Ralph Davis")
  flip top bottles (carlos benitez)
  Thought for the Day ("Bret Mayden")
  RE:My take on Wort Chillers (Valerie Perry)
  Walk The Line On Barley Wine Part I ("Koenig, Ken")
  Any brewers in LaCrosse, WI? (Jeff Renner)


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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:13:22 +1000
From: Adam_Griffiths at amp.com.au
Subject: RE: Temperature Control



Lyle,

RS Components have an excellent (and cheap) capillary thermostat that will
directly replace the one in most fridges. Stock No. 250-6112 for the 0-40C model
(the one I got) or 250-6061 for the -30-35C model. Cost is $38.30 + GST and
postage, so mine came to about $45. The web address
http://www.rs-components.com.au/   (NAYYY)

The unit is all metal so make sure you wrap any exposed parts including the
capillary in electricity tape when you install it for safety, then switch off
and unplug the fridge before you put it in.

It doesn't come with instructions but after some playing around I got it right.
There a 4 pins, labelled 1, 2, C and earth. Pin 1 is for heating applications
and pin 2 is for cooling applications. Take note of which wires are plugged
where in the old thermostat (there should only be 3 of them) and plug the
corresponding wires into pins 2, C, and earth on the new one.

Cheers,
Adam Griffiths

Sydney, Australia [15211.5 km, 262.6 deg] Apparent Rennerian

Disclaimer: This is meant to be general information from my experience and is
not meant to be relied upon. Electricity is dangerous and you take all
responsibility for any modifications made based on the above procedure and any
loss or damage as a result. Please consult a professional technician before
attempting anything in the article above.





This email message and any accompanying attachments may contain information that
is confidential and is subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended
recipient, do not read, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message or
attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the
sender immediately and delete this message. Any views expressed in this message
are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with
authority, states them to be the views of AMP. Before opening any attachments,
please check them for viruses and defects.





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Date: 13 Nov 2001 09:17:13 +0100
From: Skyking <skyking at bredband.net>
Subject: Warm Beer

homebrew-request@hbd.org (Request Address Only - No Articles) writes:

> I've been reversing the process, by leaving the glass at room temperature,
> and leaving the bottle I want to chill in the freezer for "x" amount of
> time, when "x" equals=
> 
> Bottle size / Time in Freezer
> 
> 6 oz = 11 minutes
> 
> 12 oz = 22 minutes

Yet another way to chill beer that I've tested with success is to
put the bottle in cold water. That seem to work relly quick and
if I don't misremember the numbers, with a 33cl DIN bottle the
time constant for heat transfer was about 5 minutes. That is if
the water is 8C and the beer starts at 24C then the beer will
reach 13C within 5minutes. However this only works well only if
your tap water is significantly lower than your target.

Of course the obvious (ideal) solution is to store the beer at
proper temperature...


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 01:46:09 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: planispiral chiller construction

From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu>
>For those of you who built planispiral chillers -- how did you make the 
>spiral?  The spring-like tubing benders seem very very tedious for such a 
>long length of tubing, as does filling the tubing with sand.

Rob,

I made one several years ago.  I must confess that I've never used it.  My
original intentions were to run some tests using water and hops (whole).  I was
going to check chilling efficiency (time v. temp tests) and hop dispersion.  It
was suggested that the hop leaves on the planispiral chillers tend to either
collect in the center of the pot like a whirlpool or on top of the chiller
coils.  Shortly after I build the planispiral chiller I installed a small DC
with a long shaft and a small fan blade.  I run it on very slow speed probably
2-5 rpm (I set the DC voltage so that the motor barely turns).  This allows the
wort to cool very quickly, but it is not great for forming a hop pile in the
center of the pot.  The hops are fairly evenly distributed on the bottom of the
pot.  I loose about 1qt due to wort trapped in the hop so it really isn't a
huge concern for me.  I have not revisited the planispiral chiller idea, mainly
because I never did find a simple solution for suspending the chiller in the
wort.  

On to the construction of the planispiral chiller.  I cut a circle form for the
center winding from a scrap piece of wood.  I fastened this in the center of a
piece of plywood.  Wind the coil around the center form and continue winding in
a plane.  To space my coils I used nails between each coil.  You can pound the
nails into the plywood.  This also helps keep the coil nicely formed.  Continue
winding and spacing until you reach your intended diameter.

Next you will need to attach water fittings.  There are about 101 ways to do
this about just as many fittings you can use.  Sounds like you are an Inspector
Gadget type guy so I leave it to you.  I can expound further if you want, just
ask.

I soldered some "spokes" on top of the coil to prevent it from unwinding and to
add some "structural" support.  I was intending to suspend the coil using some
small link brass chain with some "S" hooks from the spokes.  When suspended the
chiller was somewhat wobbly and unstable.  Since brew mostly 5 gallon batches
with an occasional 10 gallon batch, I needed some adjustability.  The chains
would have worked ok for that too, but combined with the stability issue I felt
that adjustable legs would have been better.  

I never did continue with the "engineering" as shortly after I build the
planispiral chiller I installed a small DC with a long shaft and a small fan
blade.  The shaft is in the center of my vertical immersion chiller.  I run it
on very slow speed probably 2-5 rpm (I set the DC voltage so that the motor
barely turns).  This allows the wort to cool very quickly, but it is not great
for forming a hop pile in the center of the pot.  The hops are fairly evenly
distributed on the bottom of the pot.  I loose about 1qt due to wort trapped in
the hop so it really isn't a huge concern for me.  I have not revisited the
planispiral chiller idea, mainly because I never did find a simple solution for
suspending the chiller in the wort.  

Go here to check out some pictures:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~johnschnupp/chiller
Sorry it is not a full blown website.



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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:47:53 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Full-wort boils

"Daniel Gurzynski" <daniel at buffnet.net> wrote:

>In the past I have noticed it is easier to scorch in a pot when the liquid
>is quite thick as it would be with a large amount of extract in a 2 gallon
>pot.

Not only that, but this might be a good time to repeat to newer 
brewers to turn off the burner after you've brought your brewing 
water to a boil and before you add your extract, especially liquid 
extract.

My first three or four beers (about 28 years ago or so) had a 
scorched flavor and flakes of black bits floating in them.  I 
couldn't figure out what this was until I realized that when I poured 
the extract in the kettle, it settled down on the hot bottom where it 
scorched.  Best to turn off the heat, let the pot cool a bit, stir in 
the malt, and get it thoroughly dissolved before bringing back to a 
boil.

>Then again there are not too many 6 gallon
>brew pots out there and they could be a bit intimidating to lift when full,
>stir to the bottom, etc.

A good, inexpensive pot (~$25-$30) for a full boil is a black enamel 
32 qt (8 gallon) canning kettle.  Some people worry about chips down 
to the bare metal, but that never seemed to cause trouble.  I used 
one for many years until the weld at the handle began to rust 
through, which gave me an excuse to move to a 40 qt. aluminum stock 
pot, which became the basis of my RIMs.

I even brewed 1/4 barrel (7.75 gallons) batches in this kettle. 
Quite a trick, and the very devil to lift.  I tried not to do it very 
much, usually chilling with a CF chiller right on the stove.

Speaking of the stove, that's the other problem.  A big kettle like 
that works well because it covers two burners, but I really 
discolored the tops of three stoves.  That doesn't go over big with 
spousal units, even though I'm the cook in the family.

We're both happier that I moved brewing to the garage!

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:21:22 -0500
From: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at Gardnerweb.com>
Subject: Propane Burners

Tim R Asks about Propane Burners -

Tim - I have one of each of the Beer, Beer and More Beer 30k cookers and one
of the jet engine kind. I find the 30k is wonderful for my mash turn and
doing steps and maintaining heat at exactly the temp I want. Would I boil 7
gallons of water on it, yes, but not unless I had to. 
Now the Jet engine, I wouldn't use for heat tuning, but boy, if you want 5
to 10 gallons of water to boil, those puppies cook !

I find they are both wonderful in their place and would keep both and use
both for different needs.




       Be like water my friend ...
Alan G. Monaghan
   MCSE+I - Win4.0; MCSE - Win2k
    BJCP # C0389  (Recognized)
Gardner Publications, Inc.
Internet Administrator 

*  Phone	1-513-527-8867 
*  Fax		1-513-527-8801 
*  Car		1-513-520-6866 
*  Cell		1-513-378-0919  
* E-mail	AlanM at Gardnerweb.com <mailto:AlanM at Gardnerweb.com> 
5 URL		http://Bullwinkle.GardnerWeb.Com/
 




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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:33:57 -0500
From: "Mike" <brewski at inet99.net>
Subject: RE: making a starter

For the past year I have been using some of the dry yeast during the winter
months. I have brewed on days, outside on the back porch, with at times a
nice air movement across the porch, with the temp in the 20's F. NEVER
AGAIN! Then in the 30's. Never again. Both days I was physically wooped.
Using the dry yeast I don't have to make a starter so when I need to brew
and a nice weekend day come up I go ahead and brew. A few months back a
friend of mine was doing this, making a 10 gal brew. He usually re-hydrates
the yeast but this time he re-hydrated one packet and not the other one. The
re-hydrated yeast took off faster, much faster. I don't know if there was a
difference in the taste of the beer.

So, right or wrong, I don't re-hydrate any more.

Mike



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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:51:16 -0500
From: "Mike" <brewski at inet99.net>
Subject: NYC Club-Only contest

Sometime ago someone told me that George Washington's favorite beer was
Porter. That man also has good taste in beer.

Anyway, the keg/stainless steel issue of Zymurgy the AHA March Club-Only
beer contest is a Porter and the host is the New York City Homebrewers
Guild.

You are already getting ahead of me on this one,
Mike




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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:50:05 -0600
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: Alcohol tolerance for 1007 yeast?


Hi all,

	Does anyone have information/experience with
the Wyeast 1007 German ale yeast in fairly high gravity
fermentations?  I'm planning to do an "Imperial IPA,"
aiming for about 1.075-80 OG, with a lot of Munich
malt in the grist, somewhere in the 100+ IBU range,
with lots of hop flavor and aroma.  My past forays in 
this direction have finished a bit too sweet for my 
liking, because of a combination of underattenuation
(perhaps partly due to the high Munich malt levels in
the grist,) high alcohol levels (which tastes a little
sweet, to most palates,) and way too much late addition
hops.  My experience with the 1007 yeast in altbiers
has been very positive: the dry finish this yeast leaves
balances the high Munich malt profile wonderfully, at least
when you have lots of Spalt bitterness in the mix.

	My guess is that the 1007 could ferment a 1.075
IPA down to 1.018 or so, if properly pitched/aerated, even
with high levels of Munich malt.  This should give me the
kind of balance I'm looking for.  Has anyone used this
yeast for this kind of alcohol level?  Any problems to
report?  Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

			Paul Shick
			Cleveland Hts, OH


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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:06:55 -0500
From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com>
Subject: Burnin' and Chillin'

On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, "Tim R" <par8head at earthlink.net> querried about Propane
Burners:

>I'm in the market for a propane burner.  I read the recent article in BYO
>(Nov. 2001) Bring on the Heat.  I am planning on buying a propane burner
and
>am leaning towards the 30,000 BTU Cache Cooker sold by Williams
>Brewing(http://www.williamsbrewing.com/AB1605000/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=3660
5
>&St=2585&St2=-69723412&St3=43732352&DS_ID=2&Product_ID=418&DID=7)  but also
>noticed that the catalog Beer, Beer & More Beer (http://www.morebeer.com/)
>sells a similar 70,000 BTU Camp Chef Cooker and a stainless steel 125,000
>BTU multi-purpose burner.
>
>Needless to say the SS 125K BTU is also very attractive.
>
>I appreciate any advice anyone has.

I noticed this past weekend that Price Club, er . . . Costco, had a
beautiful propane burner made of stainless steel, along with a 32 quart (as
I recall) stainless kettle and other accessories for deep frying turkeys.
As I recall, the price was around $70!

Then, on Mon, 12 Nov 2001, Rob Dewhirst
<robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu>asked about planispiral chiller
construction:

>For those of you who built planispiral chillers -- how did you make the
>spiral?  The spring-like tubing benders seem very very tedious for such a
>long length of tubing, as does filling the tubing with sand.

My immersion chiller couldn't have been easier:  when I bought the tubing
from Home Despot, it came out of the box spiraling in towards the center,
then back out in a second layer.  When I pulled the two layers apart, they
made a shape like ><.  There are pix at my web site below.  Then I just
soldered in some triangular braces to hold the shape.  I think this design
works better than a cylinder - I can actually watch the convection currents!


Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section
227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee of US$500.00.  The sending or
forwarding of such e-mail constitutes acceptance of these terms.





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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:41:11 -0800
From: "Schrempp, Michael" <michael.schrempp at intel.com>
Subject: Yeast attenuation

Maybe one of the experts at large can fill us all in on how yeast
attenuation is calculated/measured. Is there a standard solution composed of
certain percentages of different kinds of sugars that he yeast is tested
against? I assume that the yeast will ferment 100% of certain sugars and 0%
of others up to the time something stops the fermentation (like too much
alcohol). If we knew the sugar mix, we could state yeast attenuation in
terms of which sugars they will ferment. Then we could set our mash schedule
to target the percentages of certain sugars we wanted. Of course finding a
way to measure our success (other than fermenting out the wort and comparing
OG to FG) would be tricky.

Mike Schrempp
(1968.3, 269.9) or (269.9, 1968.3) or 98335 or Gig Harbor, WA


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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:54:51 -0600
From: "Bailey, Kevin S" <Kevin_Bailey at bc.com>
Subject: Carbonation

I have a Scottish Ale in the secondary and will be bottling in a week or
so.
I'm concerned that the relatively high alcohol content may have killed
off
most of my yeast.  My question is should I repitch more yeast before
bottling
to assure good carbonation or should I just prime with DME as I usually
do?
If so, how much and does it have to be the same kind that I fermented
with?
Thanks in advance to your help...

Kevin Bailey



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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:46:23 -0500
From: "Milone, Gilbert" <gilbert.milone at uconn.edu>
Subject: ancient beer recipe

Hey all did anyone hear the following? Pretty neat, would be cool to
have one of these ancient recipes.
 -Gil Milone
Archaeologists uncover 3,800-year-old recipe for beer 
 Archaeologists in Syria have found a 3,800-year-old recipe for beer.
 The team of British, Belgian and Syrian researchers found the Babylonian
 instructions on clay tablets.They found 92 of the tablets while digging in
the north of the country. Their writing style is known as cuneiform,
which means wedge-shaped.Abdel-Massih Baghdo, director of the Hassakeh
 Archaeological Department, says the tablets were in the 14th layer of
Tell Shagher, a site just north of Hassakeh.He says they show beer-making
methods and give details of the quantities of beer produced and distributed
in the region.Hassakeh, 400 miles north-east of Damascus, is now known for
its wheat production. 
 
See this story on Ananova: 
 http://www.ananova.com/go/284671 
 


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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:14:10 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pcalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Propane Cookers

Last Sunday, the Sunday newspaper had a flyer from Ames Department stores.
They were advertising a Thanksgiving Turkey cooker for "deep frying,
steaming, or broiling."

King Kooker, 12 piece set including:

170,000 BTU Propane powered (no tank I believe)
30 qt. Stockpot (in the photo, it looks like stainless)
Steamer plate (??? stainless)
Thermometer (in the photo, it looks like a dial type that clips on the rim
of the pot)
Cooking seasonings (???)

#30STTPK

For $67.88 USD. (Regularly $89.99) Propane sold separately.

The photo also shows a lid, regulator and tubing, a device with an upright
"prong" to hold the turkey, and a deep fryer basket (stainless).

Hope this helps.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:57:24 -0500
From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com>
Subject: Re: Full-wort boils

Re:  Full-wort boils

I brew partial extract stuff--and always boil all the water--the day before.
My brew kettle is only 4 gallons, so I cannot do a full wort boil (all at
once), but I think boiling the extra water used beforehand is a good
compromise.  I always have a rich head--which I account for having all the
water boiled.  The advice to boil the water beforehand I found in the
excellent Belgian "Brewfirm" brand kit.

Also, without a chiller, its easier to chill  (setting the brew-kettle in
ice) 2  gallons or so fast than a full 5 gallons.


Ralph W. Davis
[6699, 91.9] Rennerian





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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:12:39 -0800 (PST)
From: carlos benitez <greenmonsterbrewing at yahoo.com>
Subject: flip top bottles

 Chuck writes
  "Has anybody ever had problems with the flip-top 
bottles from Boss Bottles 
(of Bellingham,WA)"
  I ran downstairs to check out the name on my bottles
 - flexicap- cause I have the same problem - I replaced
the gaskets, but that didn't seem to help - I also
have bent the wires a little bit to see if that helped
 - and on some of the bottles it did (I may have to
bend the others some more) I like these bottles
because they are 1 liter and make bottling day a snap
 - so if it is just me drinking I don't mind the
occasional clinker - I bottle my important beers in
regular bottles with metal caps...

=====
BIBIDI !
        Brew It Bottle It Drink It 
       Carlos Benitez - Green Monster Brewing
        Bainbridge, PA,  U.S.A.



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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:33:28 +0000
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com>
Subject: Thought for the Day

"In common walks of life, cleanliness is next to godliness, but when it 
comes to brewing, the former is the most important.  Too much can not be 
said about the supreme necessity of having all tubs, crocks, barrels, 
funnels, and coppers exceedingly clean.  There are several diseases of beer 
which cause it to turn sour or become flat, and these diseases are caused by 
unfriendly bacteria.  They can, however, be eliminated by sterilization.  
The capacity for taking infinite pains is to be applied to the noble art of 
beer-making as well to other arts...and this capacity should be spent first 
and foremost in having all utensils as clean as  boiling water will make 
them."

>From The Homemade Beer Book,Vrest Orton, 1973, Charles E. Tuttle Co., 
Rutland, Vermont

First published privately in 1932 (height of Prohibition) members of "The 
Company of Amateur Brewers," a private homebrew club.

Bret A. Mayden
Oklahoma City OK
brmayden at hotmail.com




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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:07:33 -0500
From: Valerie Perry <vspphoto at mediaone.net>
Subject: RE:My take on Wort Chillers

in a post on !!/12 Bob Sheck wrote:

> With the immersion chiller, I just periodically use copper polish on it to
> remove the verdigris on the outside, then clean with Logic's A+
> to remove whatever gunk was in the copper polish, then rinse,
> wipe down, rinse, rinse, rinse, then into the boil the last
> 10 minutes before the end of the boil.

This sounds like a lot of unnecessary grief. I was under the impression that
the film on the immersion chiller was a good protection against leaching
stuff into the kettle. I dunno, I've let my two different chillers (both
immersion) get nice and brown, no ill effects on the beer or me(so far). any
one care to set the record straight?

thanks,

Aaron Perry
secretlab at mediaone.net
- --"Just think, I turned to a cult for mindless happiness when I had beer all
along" 
Homer J. Simpson



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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:36:22 -0500
From: "Koenig, Ken" <Ken.Koenig at baycare.org>
Subject: Walk The Line On Barley Wine Part I

Yeah, it is short notice, but....

Announcing Florida's newest Homebrew Competition and Festival

AHA Barley Wine/Strong Ale Competition AND
*** "WALK THE LINE ON BARLEY WINE"  Festival  *** 

To be held December 7-9th, The Walk The Line On Barley Wine Festival will be
the South's first Barley Wine Festival, and for this first year only, will
be THE WORLD'S LARGEST!  Over 60 Barley wines poured over the course of two
days.  There are several years of various brands, and many are 3-4 y/o
(including a 11 and 13 y/o). There will be a pre-festival tasting of 10+
very strong ales for judges and entrants along with live music in the
Brewery, as well as a raffle to participate in a vertical tasting of 13
years of J.W. Lees Harvest Ale for a lucky few.

AHA Sanctioned Homebrew Competition:
Accepting BJCP categories 11. a,b. English/Scottish Strong Ale ; 12. a,b,c
English/American Barley Wine, Russian Imperial Stout. Entries: $6.
Deadline: 12/4, pre-registered walk-ins allowed day of. Only 2 bottles of a
7 to 16 ounce required. 
BOS wins (for a year) a damn ugly teak carving of: "The Prophet of the
Morning After...Mayan Hedhurtz".  1st place in each category wins a mixed
case of vintage barley wines/strong ales or a $50 mail-order homebrew shop
certificate.  See website for entry forms.

Judging by a select group of high-ranking BJCP judges (Master, National) and
very experienced barley wine brewers (professional and homebrewer).
Competition Schedule:
Friday 7:30 pm First Round Judging, and after a tasting of 10+ very Strong
Ales.
Second Round: Saturday 10:30 am, Best of Show: Saturday: 1:00 pm

This is getting pretty long, so I'll post the Festival info tomorrow or you
can view it at http://hbd.org/dunedin

Slaint'e
KK - Dunedin Brewers Guild, Florida
kkdbg at worldnet.att.net
813-243-7176 (w 9-5)



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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:03:58 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Any brewers in LaCrosse, WI?

My niece's husband is interested in brewing.  They live in LaCrosse. 
Any other brewers up there who might be interested in getting 
together with him to help him get started?  He should be a natural. 
He likes good beer, has a science background, and likes to cook.  He 
already tried an all grain without really knowing what he was doing, 
so he's game!

Let me know if you are out there.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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---