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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  hops and DIPs (ensmingr)
  Yeast Starters (Mike Lemons)
  Propane Burners II ("Timmy R")
  Re: Speaking of the stoves ("Doug Hurst")
  yeast/alcohol tolerance ("Sedam, Marc")
  Cider sweetening ("Jamie Smith")
  re: husk or no husk, that's the question ("Mark Tumarkin")
  false bottom material ("fermentos")
  Gas Piping ("Vernon, Mark")
  RE: Gas Piping ("Van Zante, Bill")
  AHA Homebrewer of the Year Trophy ("Gary Glass")
  English Lesson ("Bret Mayden")
  Raspberry Wit #2 (Steven S)


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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:49:49 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: hops and DIPs

Greetings,

Just saw an article to be published in Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci.
USA.. Not sure, but I assume that DIPs are what we call 'alpha
acids'. Anyone (e.g. Steve Alexander) know? BTW, I hypothesized a
'defensive' function for hop alpha acids more than 5 years ago.
See: Ensminger PA (1996) Light and Beer. Zymurgy, 19(3): 38-43.

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
homebrewer: http://hbd.org/ensmingr/
author: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun

Attractive and defensive functions of the ultraviolet pigments of
a flower (Hypericum calycinum)

Matthew Gronquist, Alexander Bezzerides, Athula Attygalle*,
Jerrold Meinwald*, Maria Eisner, and Thomas Eisner,

The flower of Hypericum calycinum, which appears uniformly yellow
to humans, bears a UV pattern, presumably visible to insects. Two
categories of pigments, flavonoids and dearomatized isoprenylated
phloroglucinols (DIPs), are responsible for the UV demarcations
of this flower. Flavonoids had been shown previously to function
as floral UV pigments, but DIPs had not been demonstrated to
serve in that capacity. We found the DIPs to be present in high
concentration in the anthers and ovarian wall of the flower,
suggesting that the compounds also serve in defense. Indeed,
feeding tests done with one of the DIPs (hypercalin A) showed the
compound to be deterrent and toxic to a caterpillar (Utetheisa
ornatrix). The possibility that floral UV pigments
fulfill both a visual and a defensive function had not previously
been contemplated. DIPs may also serve for protection of female
reproductive structures in other plants, for example in hops
(Humulus lupulus). The DIPs of hops are put to human use as
bitter flavoring agents and preservatives in beer.




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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 01:18:17 -0800
From: Mike Lemons <ndcent at hotmail.com>
Subject: Yeast Starters

I like to reserve a flask of boiled wort for when I may need to make a
yeast starter. I put a rubber stopper in it and keep it in the fridge. I
put plastic wrap over the top because it is microbe city in there and I
am worried about stuff settling in the crevasse between the stopper and
the neck.

I've heard of someone who puts away five gallons in a keg just to make
starters with.  It would take me a few years to use that up.

If I haven't planned ahead, I have to boil up a new starter.  I use an
erlenmeyer flask with dried malt extract and distilled water at a ratio
of 50 grams per liter.  I boil it for twenty minutes.  (I've heard that
it is important to use distilled water, but heck if I know why)

I have a big problem with boil overs. I went to a bead store (yeah, we
have those in California) and bought some clear glass beads to boil
with. This helped a lot. Now it takes ten minutes to boil over instead
of five. I've got some antifoam from Hoptech. I'll try it next time. I
would feel better about it if I knew what was in it.

After boiling, I chill the flask in an ice water bath.  This is a good
time to use a foam stopper because a solid rubber stopper will get
sucked into the flask so that it becomes very difficult to remove.  (If
you sanitize a foam stopper with Iodophor, it will stay that color until
the end of time)

The starter is chilled until it reaches the temperature of the culture
that it will be inoculated with.  Then I oxygenate and add the yeast.
I use a one-hole stopper with an airlock in it.  This is not an ideal
method.  A foam stopper would continue to provide oxygen throughout the
growth cycle.  But then, how would I know when the starter was at high
kraeusen and it was time to pitch?  The airlock provides a clear
indication of yeast activity, so I am reluctant to give it up.

If you really want to get high tech, you can ferment on a magnetic
stirrer. This will produce a much greater cell count in the same volume
of starter. But a 5 x 7" hot plate/stirrer is $329 from Cynmar. Kind of
expensive.

This idea of putting the starter in the fridge overnight before pitching
sounds like a bad idea to me.  You are exposing the yeast to some pretty
rapid temperature changes.  If getting those last stragglers to
flocculate is the only justification for doing this, it doesn't seem
worth the stress it causes.

I've been thinking about the practice of building up a small colony of
yeast cells in stages to produce a starter large enough for brewing.
There are a lot of things that we do to make beer simply because that is
the way things have always been done.  I'm starting to wonder if this is
one of those things.

I assume that the purpose of the stage method is to ensure a pure colony
at the end of the process that is free of contamination from bacteria
and other undesirable microbes.  From what I understand, if you
introduce bacteria at the same time as the yeast and get into some kind
of race condition, the yeast are going to lose.  The bacteria reproduce
faster.  Even a small advantage, multiplied over several generations, 
will cause the bacteria to overtake the yeast.

The self protection from the yeast themselves occurs near the end of the
ferment when the yeast have dropped the pH, built up the alcohol, etc.
This would be a benefit if we were doing open fermentations where there
was a constant inflow of other organisms. But we take steps to seal up
or at least cover our fermentation vessels, so that there is no
contamination in the later stages of fermentation.

It seems to me that the range of "likely contamination events" that we
are protecting against by building up a starter in stages is quite
small. The drawback of using stages is that each new stage provides new
opportunities for contamination. Maybe a different method such as adding
lysozyme to the starter would provide a greater degree of protection in
a single stage.


Mike Lemons
Carlsbad, CA


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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:37:38 -0500
From: "Timmy R" <par8head at earthlink.net>
Subject: Propane Burners II

Thanks for the responses.  I'm off on a trip today (to Germany with any
luck) and then going to Costco as soon as I get back.  It sure seems like
the SS burner & 8 gallon pot may be the way to go..

Prosit!


Timmy



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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:25:45 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of the stoves

Jeff Renner said:

>Speaking of the stove, that's the other problem.  A big kettle like 
>that works well because it covers two burners, but I really 
>discolored the tops of three stoves.

I have a 30 qrt. brew kettle that sits across two burners on my gas
stove.  I have also found that it discolors the enamel area between the
burners.  I started to scrub it off with a scouring pad when I realized
I was scratching the enamel.  The solution was to get a can of spray on
oven cleaner.  I follow the directions on the can and it works like a
charm, for the most part.  A few spots have developed which I can't get
off.   

Have others had this problem?  What are your solutions?

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Rennerian
  


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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:27:14 -0500
From: "Sedam, Marc" <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: yeast/alcohol tolerance

I'm a little late to the game here, but whenever this
question comes up I feel compelled to ask people to search
the archives for "Clayton Cone."  Dr. Cone indulged the HBD
with its questions on yeast a year or so ago and we covered
this and other topics.

Basically, ANY yeast (ale or lager) is able to ferment high
gravity worts if you do the following three things:

(1) a high pitching rate (2-3x the "normal" size)-- I
usually ferment out an entire beer first, then drop the wort
on the entire yeast sediment from the first batch;
(2) there are suitable yeast nutrients in the wort-- I've
used 2t of Wyeast nutrient dissolved in a cup of hot water
and dumped into the cold wort in my big beers; and
(3) the wort is acceptably aerated/oxygenated--  Dr. Cone
suggested adding the O2 at 12-14 hours after pitching.  I
usually aerate at pitching, and again 12 hours later.  Makes
me feel better.

I fermented a wort with an OG of 1.120 last year with the
White Labs Zurich lager yeast.  Performed all of the above
steps and had an ungodly powerful fermentation within two
hours, and reached a terminal gravity of 1.021.  It can be
done.  I'm sure the 1007 will perform admirably.

Cheers!
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC


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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:24:29 -0400
From: "Jamie Smith" <jxsmith at vac-acc.gc.ca>
Subject: Cider sweetening

I just made my first batch of hard cider using canned pure apple juice, 
corn sugar and yeast.  

Started with a high gravity (1.060) , ended with a new-to-me record low
gravity (<0.090).

As it turns out, it is potent and dry.  No, that's not it.  It's a genuine 
porch-crawler and is down right sour.  Is there any way to sweeten it up?

Can I salvage it just by adding sugar or will it just keep fermenting?

Jamie on PEI
PS - thought I'd make up some labels calling it Dickens.?  ;)



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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:27:21 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: husk or no husk, that's the question

Hans asked about which brewing grains have husks:

Barley = Yes
Wheat = No
Rice = Yes
Maize = No
Rye = No
Oat = Yes
Sorghum = No
Quinoa = No, but covered by a bitter layer of resinous saponin
Buckwheat = No
Triticale = No
Millet = No
Spelt = Yes

I got this info from a member of our brew clu; Dr. Bob "It doesn't have enough
Hops" Bates. Dr. Bob is a member of the UF faculty, in the Ag dept. doing
fermentation science. He's specializes in wine (which is a bitch here in FL)
but has brewed using many of the above grains. He is most enthusiastic about
triticale, saying that he's convinced it can make as good a beer as you can
make with barley.

Hope this helps,

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL



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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:39:18 -0800
From: "fermentos" <fermentos at home.com>
Subject: false bottom material

Greetings - I have a large scale cooler mash tun and I am looking for the
plastic perforated false bottom material.  I need a large sheet about 2' x
4'.  I have search with out any luck.  Any sources would be appreciated.

Fermentos at Home.com



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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:22:25 -0600
From: "Vernon, Mark" <mark.vernon at pioneer.com>
Subject: Gas Piping

I am looking at upgrading my rims from one propane burner to 3. Around here
for natural gas piping they use black pipe - not very easy to work with for
a DIY'er. My question is can I hard pipe my brew stand with copper pipe - a
much easier product for me to work with.

Mark Vernon, MCSE, MCT
Sr. Network Engineer
Global Infrastructure
Pioneer, A DuPont Company
EMail:Mark.Vernon at Pioneer.com
Office:(515)270-4188
Cell: (515) 360-1729

I have simply tried to do what seemed best each day, as each day came.
   -- Abraham Lincoln



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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:37:00 -0600
From: "Van Zante, Bill" <bill.vanzante at pioneer.com>
Subject: RE: Gas Piping

Mark,

Copper and natural gas is a bad idea to use for long term situations like
building a house or plumbing a dryer.  Natural gas attacks the copper and
over time cause leaks. It's the sulfur agents they use to make natural gas
stink that causes the corrosion.

For your application you could probably get by with copper provided you
plumb in the appropriate shutoffs at the source and "drain" the system when
finished. That can be done by closing the feed valve and leaving the valve
to your burners open.

I've used high-pressure tubing for my burners and have had no problems.

Bill


- -----Original Message-----
From: Vernon, Mark 
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 3:22 PM
To: HBD (E-mail)
Cc: 'founders at iowabrewersunion.org'
Subject: Gas Piping


I am looking at upgrading my rims from one propane burner to 3. Around here
for natural gas piping they use black pipe - not very easy to work with for
a DIY'er. My question is can I hard pipe my brew stand with copper pipe - a
much easier product for me to work with.

Mark Vernon, MCSE, MCT
Sr. Network Engineer
Global Infrastructure
Pioneer, A DuPont Company
EMail:Mark.Vernon at Pioneer.com
Office:(515)270-4188
Cell: (515) 360-1729

I have simply tried to do what seemed best each day, as each day came.
   -- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:29:58 -0700
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: AHA Homebrewer of the Year Trophy

Hi Everyone,

I have the unfortunate duty of reporting that the American Homebrewers
Association Homebrewer of the Year trophy was stolen after the National
Homebrewers Conference in LA--the package that the trophy was in was taken
from the Four Points Sheraton LAX before it could be shipped back to
Boulder.  The trophy, a beautiful brass sculpture of an old mash tun mounted
on wood, donated to the AHA many years ago by Muntons.  A Muntons engineer
handcrafted the trophy in his spare time, and so it is one of a kind that
cannot be replaced.  It is truly a shame that the 2001 AHA Homebrewer of the
Year Steve Jones, who won best of show out of nearly 2700 entries, will not
have the opportunity to keep the trophy for a year as is traditional for the
award.  The AHA is not interested in prosecuting anyone for the theft, but
we would very much like to have the trophy returned, no questions asked.
Any information that might lead to the return of the trophy would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,

Gary Glass, Project Coordinator
Association of Brewers
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary at aob.org
www.beertown.org



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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 02:18:33 +0000
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden at hotmail.com>
Subject: English Lesson

Some definitions:

"BAR.  An altar at which the weary, dispirited and a-thirst were wont to 
worship.  It consisted of a long, flat expanse of mahogany supported by a 
base at the foot of which was a brass rail. The officiating priest stood 
behind the bar and poured forth libations for the supplicants on the other 
side.  The ritual comprised putting one foot on the rail, lifting the 
oblation on high, and then drinking with impressive ceremony.  It is now 
faced by high stools on which debutantes and other females sit while having 
their afternoon 'tea.'

COCKTAIL.  Any one of hundreds of pernicious concoctions that have made 
America stomach-conscious.  A fine disguise for the raw taste of synthetic 
liquor, and the steam that turns the wheels of nearly every party.  The 
reason why young girls tell all, and speakeasy proprietors buy Rolls-Royces.

FERMENTATION.  An act of God, helped by a little yeast, that 
prohibitionists, members of the W.C.T.U., and other gloom-creators, would 
like to restrain the Divinity from using."

>From The Homemade Beer Book,Vrest Orton, 1973, Charles E. Tuttle Co., 
Rutland, Vermont

First published privately in 1932 (height of Prohibition) members of "The 
Company of Amateur Brewers," a private homebrew club.

Bret A. Mayden
Oklahoma City OK
brmayden at hotmail.com





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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:29:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Raspberry Wit #2


My second attempt at a raspberry wit(wheat) has finally come to the stage
that its quite drinkable.

I brewed this batch on 1 Oct 2001 so 6 weeks and its quite tasty.
The carbonation is not bad, its bottle conditioned and could stand a few
more weeks in the bottle. Head retention is low though. There is a great
raspberry/saaz aroma. The bittering of the hops balances nicely, i think,
against the tart raspberrys. What it needs is a bit more
sweetness. Oatmeal is critical for a wheat I believe. It gives a nice bit
of body that my wheat beers without oatmeal definatly miss. It could maybe
use a bit more crystal and maybe a bit more maltyness


My recipe in case anyone is interested.

5# Munich Malt
2# American 2-row
5# Torrified Wheat
1# Belgian Aromatic
1# Oatmeal
1/2# Crystal Malt (20-40L)
3oz Saaz (3%AA)
White Labs Belgian Wit Yeast
5# Frozen Raspberrys

I did a simple single step mash, batch sparge. I First Wort Hopped with
1 1/2 oz Saaz. Dry hopped the other 1 1/2oz, ie: placed in primary in a
hop bag. I use hop sacks for my pellets so adjust accordingly. Initial
Gravity was 1.068 (seems high). I racked from my primary to a carboy with
5# of raspberrys on the bottom  at  1.040 after about a week. Fermentation
continued and finished after a week  at  1.008. I racked to a 3rd carboy to
clear and then bottled. Primed bottles with primetabs.

My finished product is wheat cloudy which i'm somewhat convinced comes
from torrified wheat. It might also be my technique. Its damn good so I'm
not going to gripe too much.

 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net
	[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian ::: Lilburn (atlanta) GA







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