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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  rich text editor ("ben yep ben")
  MCAB4 ("David G. Humes")
  malting bow ("ben yep ben")
  RE: keg fridge ("RJ")
  The wee wee experiment ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  keeping sanitizer ("David Craft")
  White Labs poster / Real Ale Festival ("Ray Daniels")
  triticale ("Joseph Marsh")
  Re: Yeast Starters (Demonick)
  Stupid brewer tricks-Burnt IPA (Al Beers)
  Water chemistry problem (D H)
  Re: Poligamy Porter ("Mikel Bensend")
  =?utf-8?B?SXJpc2ggU291dCBZZWFzdA==?= (=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBTaXNrYQ==?=)
  Chloramine in my water ? (Arnaud VIEZ)
  RE: carboys ("Dennis Lewis")
  RE: multiple pressure settings ("Dennis Lewis")


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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:17:54 +1100
From: "ben yep ben" <dundalinger at hotmail.com>
Subject: rich text editor

If anyone is using hotmail and cant there messages posted. I got this 
through by going to 'tools' and turning off the rich text editor.



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:47:48 -0500
From: "David G. Humes" <dhumes001 at home.com>
Subject: MCAB4

Greetings,

Is there some conspiracy to hide information about MCAB4?  I can't find
anything on the web about it.  My last email to Louis about it was ignored.
The HBD MCAB link has the MCAB3 results, but nothing on MCAB4.  What's up?
Is there going to be one?  When is it?  Where is it?  Is there a website?
The reason I ask is that if it's going to be in February, as I've seen
advertised on some sites organizing qualifying events, then it might just be
time for some people to get brewing, depending on their style.

- --Dave



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:18:09 +1100
From: "ben yep ben" <dundalinger at hotmail.com>
Subject: malting bow

Does anyone know where i can see some plans for a malting box that 
germinates the green and does the kilning in situ???



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 05:28:20 -0500
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: RE: keg fridge

Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> wrote:

1.	"I'll be setting up a keg fridge soon that will hold 5-6 kegs.
My goal is to be able to store these kegs at different carbonation
levels appropriate to the particular beer in each. My thoughts at this
time are to use a manifold which has valves for each gas outlet. That
way I can pressurize, dispense, repressurize to whatever levels I want
for any particular keg by only opening its valve and setting the tank
regulator to the desired level. All other valves would remain closed,
thereby isolating the other kegs from what's going on in the rest of the
system. Normal state for storage would be to have all valves closed,
including the main tank valve. Is this going to work, is this the best
way to be achieving what I want?"

2.	"For simplicity, the taps will be mounted on the door, since
that seems like the safest place to put holes in a fridge. However, I
would prefer to have my main gas line from the tank (which will be
outside the fridge) coming through the side. Is there anyway to tell
where it is safe to drill through the side of a fridge?" 

Brian, 

In answer to number "1"; I think you've certainly hit on the cheapest
way to do it.  If later down the road you decide that you would like to
be able to pressurize more than 1 keg at a time, simply put in backflow
 - check valves between the manifold outlets and the kegs... Then, you'll
be able to do that and still maintain your individually desired
settings.

In answer to number "2"; I've only done this twice with fridges (NOT
upright Freezers), but generally speaking, I would say that it should be
safe to drill thru the door or the sidewall without much of a problem...
The fridges I've have had, all had their coils in the back of the unit. 

You might also, contact the support group at the manufactures' website
(they all have www's) and ask "the question"..

RJ
Lakes Region of NH



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:49:46 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: The wee wee experiment

Whilst I am a keen home brewer, I consider myself to be only a modest
drinker. Rarely would I consume more than 15 litres of homebrew in one
night. In fact, some nights I consume considerably less!

But I am puzzled by a phenomena which I have observed.
If I stand on the scales holding a keg with 15 litres of beer in it, I weigh
my weight plus 15 (or so) kilos.

After drinking the 15 litres I don't weigh anything like that. I appreciate
that a certain amount gets discharged onto the garden but nothing like the
15 litres I consumed.

I have proved this by wee weeing into spare beer glasses and never have
fully filled 4 single litre glasses.

When I get on the scales I hardly weigh anything more than my usual weight.
How can this be possible?

There must be some residual effect because each year I am going up in weight
by exactly my average beer consumption per night ie 15 kilos.

Can someone shed light on this oddity?

Cheers
Phil




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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:03:42 -0500
From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com>
Subject: keeping sanitizer

Greetings,

Can you keep the oxygen based sanitizers on hands in a five gallon bucket
and for how long before it gives out.  The same question for
Iodophor.............

Thanks,

David Craft
Battleground Brewers
Greensboro, NC

[506.4 mi, 149.3 deg] (Apparent) Rennerian



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:13:32 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: White Labs poster / Real Ale Festival

I saw that really nice White Labs poster in the November/December Zymurgy.
(Maybe they put it in both magazines!)

For those who have an interest in "Perry" -- the cider made with pears, this
issue also has a really nice article by Bob Capshew that covers the history,
pear varieties, etc.  Cool review of something I've always heard about but
never seen an informed article about.  It was fun to read.

For those who haven't heard, the Chicago Beer Society and I put on a little
event called the Real Ale Festival each year in Chicago.  We're set for Feb
28-March 2 this year for the main festival activities which include a
homebrewed real ale competition.   Anyone who is interested in participating
in the hb comp can drop me a note and I'll send you a pdf with all the info.
For festival info, see the web page at www.realalefestival.com.

Cheers,

Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications

Don't Miss:
Real Ale Festival - Feb 28 - March 2, 2002 - Chicago, IL
www.realalefestival.com



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:52:32 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: triticale

If you're using quad row triticale watch out for tribles. I understand they 
can be quite a bit of trouble.

Joe (8^)



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:10:30 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Starters

From: Mike Lemons <ndcent at hotmail.com>
>This idea of putting the starter in the fridge overnight before pitching
>sounds like a bad idea to me.  You are exposing the yeast to some pretty
>rapid temperature changes.  If getting those last stragglers to
>flocculate is the only justification for doing this, it doesn't seem
>worth the stress it causes.

From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
>Mike, I agree, I think there is a minor logical fault in this procedure.
>... Sounds good, but temp-shocking yeast isn't the best thing for them. 
>... Surely there's enough of a drop at a rapid enough rate to kill a few
>cells.  I'm sure that the yeast which haven't been killed already will
>love the even quicker 30F jump back to ambient when you pitch it the next 
>day.
>...Now I know *SOMEBODY* might read this and ask "How can Glen say
>this?  I chill my starter s and my beers turn out fine."

Hey, Glen.  I chill my starters and my beers turn out better than fine.
They turn out great.  :-)

The only statistic I have is that my lag times are never more than 4 hours,
often just 2 hours.

This is sounding more and more like a religous argument.  The basic
assumption underlying all the discussion against fast step ups and 
chilling yeast is the avoidance of stress.

Why?

I think there is a minor logical fault here.

First, I question the use of the word "stress".  That's a value judgement,
yeast adapt to changing conditions.  The REAL question is, "Is the
adaptation you are forcing them to make detrimental to your beer?"  Maybe
it makes BETTER beer.  How do we know that it doesn't?

I think yeast "stress" avoidance is a cultural phenomenon.  We have been
told over and over and over by the nannies and nags in our society that
stress is bad.  We should remain calm.  We shouldn't get angry.  We
shouldn't scream at the idiots on the road.  It's bad for out hearts and
arteries.  We should be forgiving, understanding, and tolerant.  We should
submit.  We should call 911.  We should do it for the children.  Baloney!  
Stress makes us strong!  That which does not kill us makes us stronger.  
Our lives have become so cushy that we react to minor inconveniences as if
they are life threatening.  Imagine the "stress" of the first settlers of
the western US.  Imagine the stress of your grandparents immigration to the
US.  My point is that in our cushy, leather-seated, personally
climate-controled, clean-handed, well-fed lives, stress has gotten a bad
rap.

We as a culture are in such a sorry state that people CRAVE stress!  They
do things like extreme sports, jump out of airplanes, jump off bridges with
rubberbands around their ankles, release beta software, snowboard down 60%
slopes, bicycle through mud and rocks and rivers, run 26 miles as fast as
possible, surf monster waves, play violent video games, and watch
frightening movies.  All this, just to experience a little healthy stress.

Those that believe that yeast are delicate little creatures needing
coddling and obsessive care are projecting.  (But, I'm not :-)  The proof
IS the beer.  Intra-cellular enzyme profiles, transcription profiles,
altered krebs cycle function, and altered transmembrane functioning, yield
proof that the yeast is adapting/responding to your stimulus, but the
relevant judgement is whether that adaptation is bad for the beer.  It's
irrelevant if such yeast treatment makes a human feel cruel and/or
uncaring and/or yields some vague notion that the yeast is stressed.

I've said it before, yeast are hearty buggers.  They evolved in a cold,
cruel world of feast or famine, without the EPA, without OSHA, and without
the nanny-state.

They are tougher than we think they are, and, they are tougher than we
think we are.

:-)

Domenick Venezia (Unabashed yeast abuser)
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:18:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Al Beers <beersal at yahoo.com>
Subject: Stupid brewer tricks-Burnt IPA

Greetings all, Last week I brewed up 10 gallons of IPA
(extract w/grain) in a half barrel kettle. All went
well, except for the scorched extract at the bottom of
the kettle. Apparently the extract sank to the bottom
rather quickly before dissolving and scorched. I
transferred to secondary yesterday and tasted it.
Tasted really good except for the "burnt toast" kind
of flavor. Is there anything I might do to eliminate
this flavor? I dry hopped with 2 ounces of Centennial.
Would Irish Moss help? I'm at a loss. 
Thanks in advance, Al in Mount Clemens, MI 
[48.4, 21] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:26:41 -0800 (PST)
From: D H <uqob at yahoo.com>
Subject: Water chemistry problem

I need to harden some distilled water.  The
bicarbonate powder I purchased and pH paper is no
where to be found and I'm ready to brewq a stout.

My problem is that I need a quick fix for this
problem.

Any suggestions for a substitute?

I can get to a pharmacy and natural food store (GNC)
and I'm hoping someone might have a clever solution to
this problem.

I need a solution ASAP, email me direct at
uqob at ivillage.com

Cheers,
Dee



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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:34:12 -0700
From: "Mikel Bensend" <lauritsm at msn.com>
Subject: Re: Poligamy Porter


As a present resident of Utah who moved down from a town in Alaska, I find 
the comings and goings of a government run by "the church formally known as 
Mormon" quite entertaining. Up in AK (if I remember correctly) the bars were 
required to close for 4 hours a day. What a concept. At first it's kind of 
difficult to deal with (we can cook up a batch of homebrew but we can't 
ferment it.....?), but then you just quit taking these clowns seriously. As 
long as the snow comes, and there's plenty of HB in the fridge, life is 
good. And, it's free laughs as long as you don't really expect a separation 
of church and state.

MB
Homer, Alaska
"A quaint drinking village with a fishing problem"






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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:34:02 -0800
From: =?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBTaXNrYQ==?= <John.Siska at hellonetwork.com>
Subject: =?utf-8?B?SXJpc2ggU291dCBZZWFzdA==?=

Hi Just bought the "brewers best" Irish stout kit which comes with Muntons
Dry Active brewing yeast. is there a better liquid yeast strain I should
use? White labs or Brewtec? or does it matter?also is there an additive I
can add to acheive a better "guiness" head on the stout? 
 
Thanks in advance.
 
John Siska
Homewood, IL


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Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:21:13 +0100
From: Arnaud VIEZ <arnaud at viez.net>
Subject: Chloramine in my water ?


As a regular reader trying to make some good beer in France, where there

are not so many homebrewers than in US, I thank you for all the precious
stuff
I can find in the HBD.

I have a question about some of the information being given here in
the last months : I read that chlorine is removed from water with a 30
minute boil,
but that chloramine stands; and Campden tablets are the only way to
remove it; but my question is : what way can I determine if there is
still
chloramine in my water, after the boil?

Thank you in advance for your answers.



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Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:52:50 -0500
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at dblewis.com>
Subject: RE: carboys

From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>:
> Any people still using carboys with out handles, save this in 
> your inbox and remember, don't make the mistake that I made.  
> Should you make this same mistake, go to in box and let it be 
> known that you had been duly warned.

The card that comes with the orange handles says not to trust
the handle to carry the carboy--it can snap the neck off without
much warning! That said, I use kegs now. Very break resistant.

I have three 5 gal carboys with handles that I'm looking to get
rid of. I'll trade the carboys for a couple of brews. I don't
want to have anything to do with shipping them, so local 
inquiries only please. (Local = how far are you willing to drive)

Dennis Lewis

Warren, OH


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Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:01:45 -0500
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at dblewis.com>
Subject: RE: multiple pressure settings

Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> asks about setting up the keg fridge:

> I'll be setting up a keg fridge soon that will hold 5-6 kegs. My
> goal is to
> be able to store these kegs at different carbonation levels appropriate to
> the particular beer in each. My thoughts at this time are to use
> a manifold
> which has valves for each gas outlet. That way I can pressurize, dispense,
> repressurize to whatever levels I want for any particular keg by only
> opening its valve and setting the tank regulator to the desired level. All
> other valves would remain closed, thereby isolating the other kegs from
> what's going on in the rest of the system. Normal state for
> storage would be
> to have all valves closed, including the main tank valve. Is this going to
> work, is this the best way to be achieving what I want?

You will soon tire of this arrangement. The best and easiest way is to
get a regulator manifold. The basic regulator usually has a 'thru' port
so you can connect another regulator to it using a brass nipple. It is
opposite the high-pressure gauge if you have one. They certainly aren't
as cheap as a connected valve manifold, but it certainly is the best way
to do it.

I think you'll find that you would need only 2 or 3 regulators to feed
6 kegs anyway. You probably won't be able to tell the difference between
a few PSI.

Dennis Lewis
Warren, OH



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