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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Triticale (Brad McMahon)
  Chest freezer used for temperature control??? ("robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com")
  re: Teaching Pub ("robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com")
  Re: carboys (Mike Uchima)
  RE: triticale (bjackson)
  RE: Teaching Pub ("Tim R")
  Phil's Pub and Flaked Barley ("Abby, Davey, Ellen and Alan")
  Fw: Gruit ("Gerard Goossens")
  re: Carboy anxiety . . . (John Schnupp)
  Clarity Ale malt ("Chuck Dougherty")
  RE: Phil's wee-wee (Brian Lundeen)
  carboy carry and chocolate ("Joseph Marsh")
  Re: Chocolate flavor (Matthew Comstock)
  RE: Carboys & Carboy handles ("Pete Calinski")
  Re: Stupid brewer tricks-Burnt IPA (Rick)
  chocolate porter (Marc Sedam)
  Giving your mash kettle a BJ (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Yeast Starters (Demonick)
  Triticale ("Schrempp, Michael")
  RE: Chocolate flavor ("Zierdt")
  Beer-related mouse pointers and themes ("Sweeney, David")
  Mashing Equipment Wanted ("Ray Daniels")
  Secondary fermentation/Conditioning (Rolf Karlsson)
  Classic American Pilsner ("Erik Nelson")
  Cleaning Beer Lines ("df ds")
  Off Flavors ("Bates, Floyd G")
  Re: Nitrogenation, Guinness head (Svlnroozls)


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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:39:53 +1030
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: Triticale


>From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
>
>The trouble with triticale (and I guess tribbles) is that it may be hard to
>find. Here in Florida, it is grown and used as animal feed. So you might try
>looking in your local feed store (for the tritciale, that is; though maybe
>tribbles too?)

Where I am, triticale is available in the supermarket in the organic/hippy
section. I'm pretty sure I've seen flaked triticale there too.
I've thought about using it in a beer, but I haven't taken the
plunge as yet.

Cheers,

Brad McMahon
Aldgate, South Australia
[10104 mi, 268 deg] Rennarian

   



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Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:25:12 -0800
From: "robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com" <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: Chest freezer used for temperature control???

Hello all,

Wanted to pass something by everyone. 

One of my problems in the past was that I 
really had no way of controlling my 
fermentation/lagering temps. Frankly, I 
only made one lager, and EVERY judge 
that ever tasted it said that I needed to 
control my temps better!

The other day I was blowing some time at 
Costco, and noticed a smallish chest 
freezer and "the wheels started turning!!" 
Has anyone on the digest used one of 
these for controling fermentation/lagering 
temps?

The biggest disadantage I can see would 
be that you have to bend over to put the 
carboy/keg in, or get it out. That could be 
bad on your back if you bent the wrong 
way. A minor concern I had was whether 
the floor could support the weight of the 
larger volumes (such as a keg!). The 
advantage is that fact that this is a really 
small cube, as opposed to a full-sized 
fridge!

What do people think?  

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com
NNY Brewing Company
(NO, not Northern New York, No Name 
Yet")



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Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:30:22 -0800
From: "robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com" <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: re: Teaching Pub

Dan,

Maybe I missed some stuff since I just 
resubscribed a week ago, so if
I did go light please!

What is your current use permit written 
for? Is it strictly Retail, or
do you also have a permit that allows the 
sale of alcohol?

Here are the issues that I see:

1 - To serve alcohol you have to have an 
on-site license. This is
going to be different than a simple Retail 
permit in most states.

2 - If you want to manufacture the brew 
on-premises then you will have
to have a different license. Some states 
have a combo license to cover
both of those, and some do NOT allow you 
to combine them, and you must
be either or, but not both. (again, I don't 
know what state you're
in).

3 - You want to allow people to brew their 
own beer on premises. With
this you are a cooking facility. The 
downfall is that you CANNOT
resell anything that any of the 
homebrewers made.

4 - This one is really far out, and probably 
just a fantasy. You are a
school, and you charge people "tuition" to 
enter the premises. The
beers are the "books" and you have 
educational materials that go with
it. If you're crazy enough to try this option, 
let me know, and I'll
consider being your first student (if you're 
in CA)!!

There was an interesting operation in 
Charlottesville, VA, called Monticello 
Brewing. He was a BOP, but also used the 
small equipment to brew his own beers for 
the small pub that was there. Alas, they 
closed Oct. 2000. I had thought they were 
going to reopen in some capacity, but I 
haven't been back there since I don't work 
the job that used to have me traveling to 
VA every other month.  

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com
NNY Brewing Company
(NO, not Northern New York, No Name 
Yet")



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Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:47:32 -0600
From: Mike Uchima <uchima at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: carboys

> The card that comes with the orange handles says not to trust
> the handle to carry the carboy--it can snap the neck off without
> much warning! That said, I use kegs now. Very break resistant.

Has anyone ever actually had the neck snap off when using one of the
orange handles?  Just wondering.

I have been using glass carboys for 6+ years.  Haven't busted one yet
(knock on wood).  But after seeing Steve's post, I think I will make
sure I am wearing shoes whenever I'm moving them around...

- -- 
== Mike Uchima == uchima at pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:43:57 +1100
From: bjackson at ozemail.com.au
Subject: RE: triticale

For folks looking for info on triticale a good reference is
http://planta.waite.adelaide.edu.au/people/kc/
which seems to have links to all things triticale.
Bill J
Adelaide, South Australia

This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au




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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 06:12:45 -0500
From: "Tim R" <par8head at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Teaching Pub

Dan -

Very cool idea.  I can't think of a better way to blend homebrewing and a
"brewpub."


LDBW. . .

Timmy
par8head at earthlink.net
AIM: par8head5



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:23:53 -0400
From: "Abby, Davey, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Phil's Pub and Flaked Barley

Phil - I know of a neighbourhood you might put your new pub!   
 I  can help with the local aclimatization.
Another poster wanted to know what can be done to assist in 
making  an Irish Stout Kit more
authentic.   I would do a mini mash (just wrap a pot up in 10 towels 
after you have the grain and
water in) of flaked or rolled barley.   I find this always improves
 the head in both volume and
minuteness of bubbles.     Strain the liqour you obtain from 90  
minutes or so at 65C at add that to
your boil volume.

Alan in PEI
 




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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:13:55 +0100
From: "Gerard Goossens" <Gerard-g at hotpop.com>
Subject: Fw: Gruit



Hello fellow brewers,

I have a recepie for a beer that is spiced with "gruit". Please help!! What
is this. I heard that it was mainly Gagel or something like this.

Best regards,

Gerard




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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 06:23:02 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Carboy anxiety . . .

Dave Galloway purposes:

>I have found that dairy crates of the metal variety make for a hardy "cage"
>for carboys.

I'm mostly a lurker on the list I am but am getting up on the soapbox on this
one.

Milk crates are not any safer.  I know.  Broken glass is stitches waiting to
happen.  Any unbroken glass + gravity + hard surface almost always = broken
glass.

I had a 5 gallon carboy full of maple sap.  It was in a plastic milk crate.  I
was moving it from my car into the house.  I tripped on the sidewalk.  Not sure
if I missed the step or the loop of one boot lace caught the eye-hook on the
other boot, but down I went.  As I was falling, I managed to redirect the path
of the carboy to the left.  I was VERY lucky I did not get cut.

I still use glass carboys, but no matter what there is always a certain hazard
with glass that is not present with plastic.  

=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Horse with no Name



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:23:39 -0600
From: "Chuck Dougherty" <jdougherty at wlj.com>
Subject: Clarity Ale malt

I was just perusing the new Williams Brewing catalog, and noticed that
they are now selling a pale ale malt from Crisp called Clarity Ale.  The
catalog claims that this malt has virtually no polyphenols, thereby
reducing or eliminating chill haze in the finished beer.  I would be
curious to hear about anyone's experiences using this malt.  Does it
perform as advertised?  Is there a down side to using this malt?

Chuck Dougherty
Little Rock, AR
[694.8, 224.6] Rennerian (apparent)



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:36:36 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Phil's wee-wee

Part-time HBD poster and full-time Australian David Lamotte gives us his
take on the complex being that is Phil Yates:

> I can 
> imagine that there
> are days when you don't even bother to dress, preferring to 
> just shuffle
> about your rambling mansion wearing nothing but your old, threadbare
> dressingown.  A schooner in one hand and the butt end of a fag in the
> other.

Depending on whose definition of fag is meant here, the image in my mind is
either mildly humourous or extremely disturbing. 

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg

PS Note to Roger: We ALL have way too much free time. We're brewers, aren't
we?

PPS Aren't PS notes really an anachronism in this age of word processors?


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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:57:00 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: carboy carry and chocolate

For lugging around carboys I use 10 gallon rubbermaid buckets. I got them 
originally for fermentors but after a couple of spoiled batches I gave up 
that idea. Now after gaining some experience I'm sure I could use them with 
success but why bother? The buckets support my 6&1/2 gallon carboys from the 
bottom, they have sturdy handles and I can use them as swamp coolers if I 
need to. Also it's easy to wrap some newspaper around them to keep out 
light. Another thing, the buckets give good protection from bumps and from 
scratches on the bottom. I can probably think of more advantages if I try. 
The one absolute is to make sure what ever you use has sturdy handles. Think 
of all the laundry baskets you've seen and you'll get the idea.

Chocolate stout. I tried using an excellent bakers chocolate in the 
secondary but I got an infection that turned the stout a little bit sour. If 
I were to try again I'd add the chocolate at the very end of the boil to 
kill the the bad bugs. I -think- you would lose a little chocolate aroma but 
in homebrew scale use an extra ounce and don't worry. The beer was 
salvageable with a  little wine conditioner and in fact was quite good.



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:26:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chocolate flavor

Jeff Pursley asks about getting a chocolate
flavor in stouts (for his wife)

I've done the same experiment.  My suggestion is:
do not use unsweetened bakers chocolate.  I have
two cases of chocolate raspberry stout sitting in
my basement.  Well, minus the one bottle I tried.
 The sharp tang of both chocolate and raspberry
was too much for me.  But the worst thing is the
waxy orangy layer of chocolate clumps at the top
of each and every bottle.

Not appealing.

I think the chocolate flavor in the stouts I've
tried comes from the right combination of
specialty grains.  Maybe others can help more
there.

Good luck!

Matt Comstock in Cincinnati



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:34:08 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pcalinski at iname.com>
Subject: RE: Carboys & Carboy handles

I have found that 5 gallon carboys fit nicely in an old bottling bucket.  I
don't fully trust the bucket handle so I keep a hand under the bottom when I
carry it.


For 6 or 6.5 gallon carboys, I use a plastic crate available for < $3.00.  A
few pieces of twine looped over the neck keep the two together.

Hope this helps.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:41:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Stupid brewer tricks-Burnt IPA 

Al in MI wrote:
>Greetings all, Last week I brewed up 10 gallons of
IPA
>(extract w/grain) in a half barrel kettle. All went
>well, except for the scorched extract at the bottom
of
>the kettle. Apparently the extract sank to the bottom
>rather quickly before dissolving and scorched. I
>transferred to secondary yesterday and tasted it.
>Tasted really good except for the "burnt toast" kind
>of flavor. Is there anything I might do to eliminate
>this flavor?

This brings up a point that has always puzzled me
about extract brewing.  Why to all texts seem to
instruct that the water must be boiling or near it
before extract can be added?  Granted the warmer the
water, the easier the extract mixes, but does it need
to be boiling?

The best thing I ever did when extract brewing was
change how I added the extract to the water.  I'd fill
my 5gal brewpot half full and heat the water to about
120 degrees.  Then I'd mix the extract in the warm
water.  If I was using specialty grains the procedure
was identical but the temperature was in the 150's. 
Then when I was sure the extract was completely mixed
in, I added the rest of the water and heated to boil.

Is there a significant advantage to adding extract at
such higher temps when you consider the potential of
scorching?

Rick Seibt
Mentor, OH



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:43:13 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: chocolate porter 

Hi Jeff,

Rogue actually uses chocolate in the recipe.  Find your
favorite porter recipe and add a can of cocoa powder to the
boil.  Skim off all of the gunk from the boil (it's the
cocoa butter) and you should be OK.  I also skimmed off the
krauesen from the ferment too.  You do this so that the head
on the final beer isn't wrecked by the cocoa butter.

Good luck.  Anything to bring another person into the beer
brewing fold.

 -Marc

- --

Marc Sedam
Associate Director
Office of Technology Development
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105
Chapel Hill, NC  27599-4105

919.966.3929  (phone)
919.962.0646  (fax)
OTD site :  http://www.research.unc.edu/otd
Monthly Seminar Info:
http://www.research.unc.edu/otd/seminar/




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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:45:19 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Giving your mash kettle a BJ

Brewers

A friend of mine, Bill Holmes, brewed with me a couple of weeks ago 
and we had a hop flower (I guess) blocking the outlet hose when we 
were recirculating the chilled wort.  I was going to do the old trick 
and blow on it, but he suggested an obvious alternative that somehow 
hadn't occurred to me - use the CO2 tank.  I turned the pressure way 
down to barely a hiss, butted the two hoses together, and Hey Presto! 
 - no block.  Much easier, more sanitary, no burnt lips, and much more 
power available if necessary.

This should have an additional advantage in the case of a stuck mash 
 - no oxygen to oxidize hot mash.

Even an old dog can learn new tricks.  Every day, hopefully.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:08:48 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Starters

Domenick <demonick at zgi.com> said,
>The only statistic I have is that my lag times are never more than 4
>hours, often just 2 hours.

Glen <glen_pannicke at merck.com> responded, 
>This is a great lag time (where is the lag?!?).  I haven't been able to
>get down that low unless the yeast are in a very active state or if I
>pitched onto the yeast cake of a previous batch (barleywines excepted).  I
>think the lag time (at best) was somewhere around 6-8 hours when I chilled
>the starters.  Then again, I only know it's fermenting when the lock
>starts bubbling.

Let me explain the short lag times (time from pitching to airlock burp).  
I make fairly big aerated starters (1700 ml), and get a lot of yeast
(http://www.primetab.com/yeaststarter.html).  When the starter is fermented
out it is chilled in the fridge for one to a few days.  On brew day while
wort is filling the carboy, the starter is removed from the fridge,
decanted, and wort diverted from the carboy into the flask, say about 500
ml.  The yeast is resuspended in the fresh wort by swirling and set aside
to "wake up".  It takes me at least 1, and more generally 2 hours to finish
the transfer, aerate, and cleanup.  By the time I am ready to pitch, the
starter has a nice layer of foam and is obviously active.  This is pitched.  
It is a lot of yeast, wide-awake and actively fermenting.  After pitching
it doesn't take much time to burp the airlock.  In effect, I am cheating.  
Up to 2 hours of lag time actually occurs in the starter flask.

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:25:41 -0800
From: "Schrempp, Michael" <michael.schrempp at intel.com>
Subject: Triticale

Out here on the west coast, grocery stores carry a lot of strange grins from
a company called "Bob's Red Mill". Never seen triticale at the store but
they are also on-line and have it there. They have rolled, whole berries and
milled. Cost is about $1.50 for a pound or $15 for a 25lb sack. We eat a lot
of oatmeal at home and buy from these guys by the 25lb sack. They've got
just about every kind of grain imaginable. www.bobsredmill.net
<http://www.bobsredmill.net>  No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

On that burnt beer, maybe call it a failed rauchbier experiment.

On that pissing inna glass, if the input and output glasses get mixed up,
some of those 15 liters might be being counted 2, 3 or even 4 times. It's a
tough way to make a little beer go farther. 

Mike Schrempp
(1968.3, 269.9) Rennerian (Apparent) 
- --Maybe if Jeff got a GPS which automatically downloaded his present
whereabouts to his web site, we could dispense with the "apparent" and
report Rennerian True. Of course then we'd need to add a time stamp...



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:40:54 -0600
From: "Zierdt" <zierdt at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Chocolate flavor

Jeff Pursley asked about chocolate flavor in beer.

I have made a delicious chocolate porter using Ghiardelli's unsweetened
cocoa powder.  I use 0.5 cup for a five gallon batch added with about 10 min
left in the boil.  This gives a great chocolate flavor that is not too
overpowering.  I have not had any problems with head retention from the oils
in the chocolate.

I suggest you take your favorite stout recipie and simply add chocolate.  If
you brew a 10 gallon batch, you can pull about 2 qts of wort with 15 min
left in the boil and add the chocolate to the wort on the stove.  Chill in
an ice bath in the sink and add to one of the fermentors with the rest of
the wort from the regular batch.  This will give you 5 gals of regular stout
and 5 gal of chocolate.  I just did this with a porter so I could add
holiday spices to for my wife and it turned out great.

If you can keep your wife supplied with beer she likes, it is much easier to
obtain the necessary beer bullets to spend time and money on brewing.  My
wife's favorite beer is a Vanilla Creme Ale and I almost always have some on
tap to satify her!

John Zierdt
McKinney, Texas (30 min N of Dallas)



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:47:24 -0600
From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Beer-related mouse pointers and themes

I vaguely remember reading a few digests back of someone who had written a
beer-related set of mouse pointers, or window themes, as it were.  I've
searched the archives and didn't turn anything up.  Can anyone repeat the
citation?


David Sweeney
Texas Aggie Brew Club (TABC)
Millican, Texas
david at studentlife.tamu.edu
[1067.2 mi, 219.8 deg] (Apparent) Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:21:19 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Mashing Equipment Wanted

I know many readers of HBD are involved in the production and sale of
homebrewing equipment, so I thought I would pass along this call for
information on available equipment options for mashing.

Mashing Equipment Wanted!!!!!

The March-April issue of Zymurgy will include an article showing equipment
that homebrewers can use for conducting a mash.  This will include false
bottoms and other separation devices as well full mash/lauter vessels. Items
should be suitable for homebrew scale: specifically 5 to 15 gallons of
finished wort. Depending on space, we may also include auxiliary mashing
devices like stirring paddles.

We want to include merchandise from all producers, but we can not include
items unless they are sent in by the deadline which is December 7.  Please
e-mail your information to Ray Daniels at ray at aob.org.  For each device or
product we would like to receive the following:

The product or device name
Manufacturer or US distributor
Sales contact phone number, e-mail, web site
Short product description (No more than 150 words.)
Retail price of item

Photo:  Ideally this will be a jpg file with a resolution of 300 dpi or
higher.  As an alternative, hard copy slides or photographs can be provided.
Hard copy photos should be mailed to Dave Harford, March/April Equipment
Feature, PO Box 1679, Boulder, CO 80306-1679.  When mailing hard copy
artwork, be sure to mention that in the e-mailed information.

As always, we reserve the right to edit copy and crop images to suit our
editorial needs.  Any mention of competing products will be eliminated.

Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
ray at aob.org
773-665-1300
Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual
magazines.
For more information, see www.beertown.org



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:13:25 -0500
From: Rolf Karlsson <bz4n8v at naeng.gm.com>
Subject: Secondary fermentation/Conditioning

OK, I'm pretty new to this game, so I did a lot of reading
before starting. One thing that I'm still not quite clear on is
how long secondary fermentation should last. I've seen different
advice ranging from "don't bother with a secondary, just leave
it in primary for a week or two then bottle" to "transfer to a
secondary after 3-5 days, leave it there for a week, then age
3-4 weeks in the bottle" all the way to "transfer to secondary
after a few days and leave it there for several weeks to
condition, then bottle and wait a week or two for carbonation."

What I've been able to glean so far is that sitting on the trub
too long is bad, and aging is good. I can't figure out the
difference between aging before and after carbonating, i.e. in
secondary vs. in the bottle.

What says the collective?
Thanks,
Rolf Karlsson
[44.2mi, 9.3] Apparent Rennerian
- -- 
"If the thundercloud passes rain, so let it rain."
        -Bono, "MLK"


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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:02:13 -0600
From: "Erik Nelson" <heimbrauer at astound.net>
Subject: Classic American Pilsner

I am planning on sometime making a CAP, but I am having trouble deciding if
it is better to use the flaked maize or use corn meal instead of the maize.
I know using the corn meal and doing the american double mash is
traditional, but using flaked maize is definitely easier.

I would like some opinions on the subject from brewers who have done both.
Any suggestions would be nice, since this will be my first CAP

You can email me directly at heimbrauer at astound.net

Thanks

Erik Nelson
Sauk Rapids, MN



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:00:13 +0000
From: "df ds" <lyle25 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Cleaning Beer Lines

Hi All,

I have recently setup a keg system at home (mmmmmm....draught beer!) and am 
wondering how often the lines need to be cleaned. For example, if I leave 
beer in the lines after a drinking session for a couple of days will it be 
off next time I pull a glass or will it be ok? If they do need to be cleaned 
between sessions, what is the best way of doing it (I have the Ball-lock 
type connectors).

Cheers

Lyle.



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:37:52 -0600
From: "Bates, Floyd G" <BatesFG at bp.com>
Subject: Off Flavors



I am confused about where an off flavor is coming from.  Hopefully someone
in the brewing community can provide some guidance.  My goal was to brew
something similar to Widmer's Hefeweizen without the caramel malt.
This beer has great head retention, clarity, color and mouthfeel. There is a
slight aroma of bananas, although quite subdued for a weizen.   Due to the
length of the secondary fermentation, it is actually too clear for this
style.  Sanitation was of the utmost an at l-retentive nature and the beer was
kept under a CO2 blanket during all transfers.  Fermentation was aggressive
and finished within 5 days.
2 days after being kegged - Somewhat flat-chalky taste, otherwise the wheat
taste and hop bitterness seems to be completely missing.  Since my boil was
so concentrated, could it be that the hops never underwent isomerization?
Or is 25 IBU not appropriate for this style?  Other than this nagging
defect, the beer has very little flavor, which is quite disappointing.  I
brewed the Miller Lite of weizens!
7 days after being kegged - Added hop tea.  My wife's roses can't stand
anymore fertilizer this year.  Now I recognize the flavor and aroma as being
similar to Irish moss, somewhat fishy.  This leads me to believe that
somewhere in the process I added oxygen to the wort.  I did top off this
batch with almost two gallons of sparge water at a temp of 165 degrees.
Since this water is not oxygenated, could it have introduced enough oxygen
to skunk this beer?
Any thoughts or suggestions?  Thanks in advance.

Here is the recipe and procedures followed for a NW (Oregon-style) American
Hefeweizen:
Water Treatment: 
4 ml lactic acid (pH initial = 8.36 - pH final = 6.86
Water Composition: (Major 7 components, ppm)
Ca - 46.70
Mg - 12.70
Cl - 4.30
Na - 3.40
pH - 8.36
Alkalinity as CaCO3 -125
Hardness as CaCO3 - 128

(You will notice that the Ca and Mg concentrations do not agree with the
hardness.  I tested the alkalinity and hardness using "M" alkalinity and low
level hardness tests.  The other numbers, excluding pH, are from the only
water report I could find from 1996.)
Grist Composition;
2-Row - 42%
Wheat - 42%
Flaked barley - 16%

Mash Program: (30, 30, 10, 20)
Dough in cold at 64 degrees F with 2 gallons
Raise temp to 101 with infusion of 1 gallon, pH = 5.84
Raised temp to 122 with direct heat, pH = 5.77
Raised temp to 154 with direct hear, pH = 5.59 
Conversion complete in 20 minutes
Mashed out at 168, pH = 5.41
Mash thickness = 1.25 qts/lb

Sparge/lauter: 
* 90 minutes until SG = 1.014 and pH = 5.77
* Good clarity during recirc

Boil: 90 minutes with three hop additions
* Great hot and cold breaks	

Hops Schedule:
60 minutes - 1.40 oz. Hallertau
30 minutes - 0.70 oz. Hallertau
10 minutes -  0.70 oz. Hallertau
Yeast:
1st generation WLP320 - 500 ml starter
Oxygen:
5 minutes
Notes:
Added 4 ml lactic acid to drop pH from 6.07 to 5.59 (noticed that my meter
was FUBAR since it keeps drifting and losing calibration)
Reacidified sparge water to 5.82 before sparging
Added 1 ml of lactic acid to the wort at the beginning of the boil, pH =
5.15
Final boil volume was short by 1.75 gallons

Final:
OG: 1.051, pH = 5.31
FG: 1.014 (fermented in primary 4 days, 10 days in seconday)
Initial Vol: 5.6 gallons corrected to 68 degrees F 
Fermentation temp: 63 degrees F (wanted to avoid the banana shake and
cloves)

Made a 0.50 gallon Cascade hop tea by boiling 1.00 oz of Cascade for 8
minutes and steeping 0.25 oz for 5 minutes after the boil.  Added to keg.






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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:28:31 EST
From: Svlnroozls at aol.com
Subject: Re: Nitrogenation, Guinness head


In a message dated 11/19/01 8:14:44 PM, our colleague Bob Schaffer-Neitz 
writes:

<< As far as getting a "Guiness" head on your stout, I'm afraid you're SOL
without some serious equipment.  That gorgeous, creamy head is made by:
1) carbonating with 75% nitrogen & 25% CO2;
2) dispensing from the keg at 25psi (an outrageously high pressure); and 3)
using a special tap that not only is designed to stand up to that kind of
pressure but pushes the beer through a series of convolutions on its trip
through the tap, whipping the beer into that beautiful, long-lasting froth.
I, personally have never brewed a stout for precisely that reason.  I'm
afraid of putting the time, effort, and money into brewing something
that will only make me sigh for what isn't there everytime I look at it.
But, I do know that others brew marvelous stouts even without the $300
worth of equipment needed to pour it in an "authentic" fashion.  Good
luck and let me know how it turns out.

Bob Schaffer-Neitz >>

As one who works closely with beer and the maintenance and upkeep of beer 
service equipment for a brewpub (nice perks, pay sucks), I feel I must make 
some clarifications here.  We serve several nitrogenated beers, including 
Guinness.  25 psi is a good serving pressure for one such beer, but I have 
seen Guinness served as high as 30.  The combination of the high pressure and 
being forced through a small disk with tiny holes in it in the tap is what 
causes the exceedingly fine foam and creamy head.  Guinness is served this 
way because nitrogen hasn't the sharp bite that CO2 has and so it serves to 
temper and smooth out the roasty bitterness of the beer.  I know a few 
homebrewers who proudly own nitrogenation equipment.  It's actually a small 
step to take if one already uses kegs for homebrew.  In addition to the CO2 
equipment, one only needs to get the slow-pour tap and and the nitrogen (or 
beer gas--75/25) bottle.  I'm not sure how much the bottle will cost but a 
tap can be had for $70 or so, and gas doesn't cost too much.  Anyway, 
perfectly good stout can be made without nitrogenation.  For non-nitro stout, 
I like to carbonate somewhat softer than usual, and use a moderate amount of 
dark grains for a more graceful roasty bite.

Happy brewing.

C.T. Davis
So. Cal.
[somesuch, which-what] Rennerian


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