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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Brew more! was: bottling for competitions ("Layne T. Rossi")
  wort aeration with non sterile air (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Drilling Chest Freezers (Jay\) Reeves" <jay666 at bellsouth.net>
  Re: Wort aeration (Jeff Renner)
  Brewing in closed garage (Jeff Renner)
  Wheat Yeast ("Mcgregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL")
  scales (Marc Sedam)
  Pump recirculation using a grant ("Spinelli, Mike")
  RE: Priming with corn sugar or malt extract (Steve Funk)
  Ice for cooling wort ("Henry Van Gemert")
  Publishers and Booksellers, please . . . ("Ray Daniels")
  Rye Alt (leavitdg)
  2nd round scores (Jeff & Ellen)


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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:18:20 -0800
From: "Layne T. Rossi" <wetpetz at oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Brew more! was: bottling for competitions

Hey David, I think you've answered your own question but...
Bottle conditioned beers do last longer and taste fresh longer than draft
beers. Especially if the kegged product was older and/or the serving lines
weren't really clean during the filling procedure.
Here is my routine.
I make 23L (6 US Gallon) batches! Keg 19L (5 US Gallon) and make a dozen or
so bottles for special needs or fill a couple 2L pop bottles and use a
carbonator cap.
Here's another tip. I've found the priming tablets really helpful at
kegging/bottling time.
I really don't mind bottling a 24 of beers from my 46L batches when I have a
couple kegs to fill but It really gets dragged out when I have to bottle the
whole batch.

Layne Rossi
Campbell River, BC




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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:04:22 +0100 
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: wort aeration with non sterile air

Hi,

There's a lot of talking about wort aeration. Does somebody knows how many
bacteria, molds and yeastcells are present in say 1 cubic meter (1.307950619
cu.yd)? In a livingroom, a kitchen or a garage?
How many microorganism are getting into my wort, when I aerate without my
0.2 micron filter?

Some people are sure that bubbling air through a peroxide solution doesn't
kill the beasties (I agree). But when the air is going through a quarts tube
next to a UV light bulb (245 nm wavelength), what contact time do I need? 

Greetings from Holland (Europe), Hans Aikema   http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/



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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 06:00:51 -0600
From: "James \(Jay\) Reeves" <jay666 at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Drilling Chest Freezers

There's been talk about drilling the side walls in chest freezers.

I strongly recommend that you DO NOT do that.

Even though you may be able to locate fairly closely where the coils run, is
it really worth risking the possibility of hitting one of the coils and
losing all use of the freezer?  I don't believe an internal coil can be
repaired.

A safer solution, albeit less attractive, is to remove the lid along with
the hinges, build a wooden collar out of 2x6's, attach it to the rim of the
freezer using RTV silicon and some fashioned metal plates to attach the
collar to the freezers hinge-mounting holes, then attach the lid to the
collar with it's hinges.

That method does not alter the freezer in any permanent way.  The wooden
collar can then be drilled for what-ever reason.

I use such a setup and use the collar to run a CO2 line inside, have 2 large
holes that connect a jockey-box via an insulated PVC duct for air temp
exchanging, and also have two CO2 manifolds mounted to it.  And I can return
the freezer to its original state if need be.

 -Jay Reeves
Huntsville, AL




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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:26:50 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Wort aeration

Brewers

There has been some discussion recently about aeration of wort, to 
which I'll throw in my two cents.

Aeration of pitched wort really helps get your yeast off to a healthy 
start.  I use a simple method in my bottom fired RIMS that involves 
unfiltered air, and have never had an infection.  I don't know if I 
live a charmed life or what.  I brew in the garage winter and summer. 
In the summer, I close the garage doors when I chill the wort to keep 
insects, dustborn microbes, etc to a minimum.  That's all.

My method:  I boil with a false bottom that acts as a hopback, and 
chill with an immersion chiller and recirculate with a pump during 
(and after) chilling.  Once the wort is down to about 68F (20C), I 
pitch the yeast, making sure it is well suspended in liquid - not at 
all lumpy.  I pitch this right in the boiler with the hops on the 
false bottom.  No, the yeast doesn't seem to get filtered out by the 
hops the way the hot and cold break mostly are.

Then comes the important part - I "crack" the hose connection at the 
outlet to allow the pump to pull in a stream of air bubbles.  These 
get beaten to a very small size by the pump impeller, providing 
maximum surface area and maximum dissolving of the O2.  I continue 
this for as much as an hour (and stop the chilling when my target 
temperature is reached (48F (9C) for lagers and 65-68F (19-20C) for 
ales.  A.J. DeLange posted here some years ago the result of his 
experiments investigating how quickly yeast at proper pitching rates 
took saturation of O2 down to zero - I think it was under ten 
minutes.  So I figure I'm getting continuous oxygenation of the yeast 
for an hour.

I have been able to get short lag times using this method and 
pitching a tube of Whitelabs yeast into an eight gallon batch - no 
starter.

Obviously, if you have problems with infections this method isn't for 
you - use a filter.  But it works for me.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:34:21 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Brewing in closed garage

Brewers

I have a digital readout carbon monoxide detector that I use in my 
garage when I'm brewing.  I use propane ring burners (not the jet 
burners) that are presumably properly adjusted for air:fuel mixture - 
I don't get much soot or yellow flames.  Of course, these aren't 
precision equipment.

Anyway, in my 2-1/2 car garage with a ceiling and loft, which keeps 
the gases down low, the monoxide level rises quickly with the doors 
closed.  I never had a problem that I noticed, but when I got the 
detector, I discovered I was flirting with danger.  I can't remember 
the levels exactly, but they climbed to over 200 ppm in a matter of 
not very many minutes.  (It was nice and cozy, though).

Now in cold weather I use the detector to tell me how much I should 
open the doors.  I figure since 50 ppm is the OSHA maximum for eight 
hour exposure, I should keep it under that.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:10:24 -0500 
From: "Mcgregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL" <Arthur.Mcgregor at osd.mil>
Subject: Wheat Yeast

Greetings All:

Every time I brew a wheat beer (extract based) the wheat flavor from the
yeast only lasts a few batches, then fades away.  I wash the yeast as
described in the yeast.faq (Part 3: Yeast Washing for the Homebrewer). I
have had the problem with both the Wyeast # 3056 (Bavarian Wheat Yeast) and
Wyeast # 3068 (Wheinstephen Wheat Yeast).   Is this a common problem? Is
there a way to solve it, such as adding yeast nutrients or energizers?  TIA

Hoppy Brewing
Art McGregor
arthur.mcgregor at osd.mil
Lorton, Virginia (Northern Virginia)


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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:27:53 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: scales

I got a small postal scale from Beer, Beer, and More Beer
(NAYYY).  It is only $35 and is supposed to measure from
0-4lbs in 0.1oz increments.  I've found it will easily
weight up to 7.5 lbs accurately, and More Beer says it can
unofficially weigh up to 10lbs.  Big benefit is that it's
cordless and guaranteed for 100,000 on/off cycles.

I, too, make 10 gallon batches and have found this scale to
be perfectly able to weigh hops, mineral salts, and all
grains for my brewing.  One of the best additions to my
brewery.

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:18:55 -0500 
From: "Spinelli, Mike" <paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil>
Subject: Pump recirculation using a grant

HBDers,

Have a Q regarding recirculation of wort.  I've been using a March pump for
my 1 barrel syatem for a few years to pump sparge water and cooled wort into
my fermenter with good results.  

I'd like to start using the pump to recirc the wort prior to sparging.  

Q1:  Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow hose directly to
the pump?  I thought I read there could be a problem with grain bed
compaction if the pump outflow was too fast.

Q2:  To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant between the mash
outflow hose and pump inflow.  I plan on collecting about a gallon of wort
in the grant and then priming and starting the pump.    Only problem I see
is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge.

Any thoughts?

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ  


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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:14:47 -0800
From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com>
Subject: RE: Priming with corn sugar or malt extract

Kristen Chester asked about priming methods in the November 28 hbd.
Personally, I use neither DME nor corn sugar and prefer to use the gyle
method.  I typically can some of the wort in mason jars for starters and
priming.  I brew ten gallon batches in which I can three or four
quarts.  Then after fermentation I fill one corny keg  and bottle the
rest.  I put about four gallons of beer into a bottling bucket and add
one quart of gyle then bottle it up.  I'm sure I'll get flamed here
about specific gravities and carbonation levels for various types of
beer and so on but this has worked for me.  You can also search the hbd
archives and the internet for gyle carbonation and find various formulas
and procedures.
Cheers,
- --
Steve Funk
Columbia River Gorge Brewing
Stevenson, WA




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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:31:14 -0500
From: "Henry Van Gemert" <hvangeme at edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Ice for cooling wort

I'm extract brewing and in order to bring my 2 gal boil down to pitching 
temp, I've been emptying my icemaker and dumping it directly into the 
wort. I have read that this is a bad idea, because of the introduction 
of critters, but I've been doing this for about 10 batches now with no
problems. If I'm using chlorinated municipal water in my icemaker, and 
emptying it about every other week, am I fairly safe in continuing to do 
this? Any body with longer experience than me doing this out there?

Henry
Portage, MI



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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:00:25 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Publishers and Booksellers, please . . .

Hi all.  Time for my question of the week. (Or has it gotten to be the
"question of the day," now?)  In any case, thanks to all for the
bandwidth---I try to use it sparingly!

In any case, I'm looking for homebrewers who work in bookselling or book
publishing who could help me assess the market potential of beer and brewing
books.  Don't worry, I'll still poll HBD about various projects so everyone
gets to join in the fun, but I'm looking for folks with specific industry
experience who might be able to bring a professional perspective to the
process.

Please reply privately to ray at aob.org.

Thanks,

Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
ray at aob.org

Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual
magazines.
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Don't Miss:
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 17:43:52 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Rye Alt 

I just tasted a Rye Alt that I brewed on 11/02/01, and since it tastes 
interesting to me I thought that I'd share it. The rye with the Dusseldorf 
yeast makes for ....well...a bite that reminds me a bit of a Hefe..

10 lb Canada Maltings 6 row
2 lb Fawcett's Rye Malt
1b Wheat malt

 ->acid rest at 100F for 20 minutes
 ->boosted (by recirculating by hand) to 148F, rested for 45 min
 ->again boosted (same way) to 158F, rested there for 30 min
 ->mashout at 170F

I collected 7 gallons of wort, 120 minute boil.

Hops were: .5 oz Columbus (15%) at start of last 60 min
           .75 oz EK Goldings (6.6%)  at  30 min
           .25 oz same at 15
first runnings were 1.090
original gravity was 1.060
secondary gravity was 1.018
final gravity was 1.016
%ABV was about 5.7%

The yeast was a cake that had just been emptied of its lovely contents ( a 
Dusseldorf Ale) and I put the new wort right on top of this yeast.

I kept the yeast at around 68F...

I did notice that the yeast this second time had sort of a "greasy" / sticky
looking head.

Anyway, this, to me, tasted rather good...probably on the high end of the amount
of Rye that one should use...otherwise it will, I think , get real thick...but
the glucanase rest, along with the 6 row should help to deal with that...I 
guess.....

Happy (almost) Holidays!
 ..Darrell




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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:09:23 -0500
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: 2nd round scores

David Croft wrote of two brewers who did well in the first round of a big 
competition and but subsequently the keg-transferred beer didn't do well in 
the final round.  It's very possible and probably likely that the 
keg-transferred beer had an infection which was inoculated during bottle 
filling.  The bottle conditioned beer, after all, was the same beer from 
the same batch of bottles and priming sugar.  The beer that scored lower in 
the second round was the one that was packaged differently for the second 
round.

I doubt that oxidation had much to do with it.  Oxidized flavors take a 
while to develop in the bottle, unless the bottle is heated a lot along the 
way - quite possible if there was shipping involved.

I do know that I cleaned my "picnic" (cobra) taps last weekend after 
reading an HBD post, and found that it may explain a lot about my own 
second round scores.  There was some ugly stuff in those taps and, given a 
few weeks, I'm sure it could grow some strange off flavors.

What bothers me about David's comments is, "I realize the score should have 
dropped some because of better judging and stiffer competition."  This is 
not entirely true.  Stiffer competition should not mean lower scores. 
 Better judging should also not mean lower scores.  The scores should 
remain the same, but the beer may not necessarily win against stiffer 
competition.  A forty point beer is still a forty point beer no matter who 
judges it or against what competition it is judged.  If another beer scores 
forty-one points, so be it.  That does not relegate the lesser beer to 20 
something points.  It's still a forty point beer.  Just not as good as the 
41 pointer.  All second round beers are better beers.  That's how they got 
there.  Judging in second rounds should not become more strict, only more 
focused.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.5, 175.5 Rennerian, unless he's not home)



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