---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Fermentap (Brian Dube)
  RE: Long-term Beer Storage Recommendations (Was: Thomas Hardy et al) ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Ice for cooling wort ("Braam Greyling")
  Grants (Phil Wilcox)
  SPAM Complaint (Pat Babcock)
  Using Cornelius keg as secondary (Indwagj)
  Phils wee problem ("Jim Bermingham")
  Re: Pump recirculation using a grant (Rob Dewhirst)
  Root Beer (jvoosen)
  Turkey Fryers ("Mike Racette")
  grant ("the freeman's")
  RE: Ice for cooling wort ("Mcgregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL")
  RE: Local competitions (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  RE: Wheat Yeast (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
  pump recirculation (Marc Sedam)
  More on O2 (John Clark)
  Homebrewers in Brasil (Brazil) ("Alexandre Carminati")
  Re: Ice for cooling wort ("Pete Calinski")
  Re: Pump recirculation using a grant (Dan.Stedman)
  Re: Pump recirculation of wort (Paul Shick)
  Re: rootbeer (Danny Breidenbach)
  Re:  Ice for cooling wort ("Audie Kennedy")
  RE: Ice for cooling wort (Brian Levetzow)
  Re: Pump-recirc (Svlnroozls)
  Re:Pump recirculation using a grant ("")
  __publication_only__ ("Larry Cooney")


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:23:27 -0600
From: Brian Dube <bdube at gotgoat.com>
Subject: Fermentap

A question for the group:

Do you think it would be difficult to build a Fermentap-style device with a 
larger diameter to prevent clogs? The picture I have seen on morebeer.com 
looks a little complicated, but probably not too complicated to build and 
modify. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Brian

- --
Brian Dube
Kirksville, Missouri



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:13:29 -0800
From: "Bissell, Todd S" <bis9170 at home.com>
Subject: RE: Long-term Beer Storage Recommendations (Was: Thomas Hardy et al)

C.T. Davis wrote:
> Which raises an interesting question:  What, in your opinions, are
essential
> beers for any beer library?  What beers should we all have in our
cellars for
> long-term storage?  What do we all reccommend?  (This sort of ties
in with
> Mr. Daniels' question about cult-faves).

I was first introduced to the concept of laying down beers for
long-term storage, when I was lucky enough to taste a 10-year old
Orval (pure magic!). Since then I've stashing away many different
beers for some serious aging and savoring. Here's a sampling of what I
have stashed away, and what I would (for the most part) recommend
other folks start with (MHO, YYY):

Duvel
Chimay Red
Chimay Blue
Orval
Fantome Saison
Grimbergen Dubbel
Grimbergen Tripel
St Bernardus Tripel
Piraat
Bornem Double
Bornem Triple
La Fin Du Monde
Trois Pistoles
Thomas Hardy (good luck.....)
La Coq Imperial Stout
Carnegie Porter (`98 vintage is still pretty common)
J.W. Lees Harvest Ale (earliest vintage I've seen on the market has
been `97)
Cantillion Gueuze
Cantillion Kreik Lambic
Cantillion Rose Gambrinus
Ommegang Rare Vos
Ommegang Hennepin
Sierra Nevada BigFoot
Anchor Old Foghorn
Rouge Old Crustacean
Rouge Imperial Stout
Gulden Draak

Plus these California specialties:
Moylans Imperial Stout
Moylans Double IPA
North Coast Old Rasputian (Millennium 22-oz bottle preferably)
Stone 5th Anniversary IPA
Stone Imperial Stout
Stone Double Bastard
Alesmith Stumblin' Monk
Alesmith Horny Devil
Alesmith Grand Cru

Cheers!

Todd Bissell
Imperial Beach, CA

P.S. A great source of most of these beers for those of us that live
in Southern California is at the High Times Cellar.
http://www.hitimewine.com/beer.htm



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:04:36 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Ice for cooling wort


Henry,

Dont do it !!!
I also did it years ago when I started brewing. At some stage you 
get to throw away an entire batch of beer. The critters will come, 
believe me!  
Rather dump all the ice in your bath, add some water and put your 
fermentor with the hot liquid into the bath until it is cooled. 

That way your fermentor is also clean. 

Regards 
Braam

::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Henry wrote: 


Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:31:14 -0500
From: "Henry Van Gemert" <hvangeme at edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu>
Subject: Ice for cooling wort

I'm extract brewing and in order to bring my 2 gal boil down to 
pitching temp, I've been emptying my icemaker and dumping it 
directly into the wort. I have read that this is a bad idea, because of 
the introduction of critters, but I've been doing this for about 10 
batches now with no problems. If I'm using chlorinated municipal 
water in my icemaker, and emptying it about every other week, am 
I fairly safe in continuing to do this? Any body with longer 
experience than me doing this out there?  

Henry
Portage, MI


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 09:22:54 -0500
From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Grants

Mike,

This really is the best way to go. but you don't Have TO.  Its just
nice. Make sure you have enough gravity (head pressure) from the grant
to properly prime the pump. This may  facilitate adding a few inches to
your total brewery hight.

I just did a 60% wheat and rye with rice hulls and my march pump is
directly connected to the mash tun. No sticking there. but I've been
using my setup for 3-4 years and know what I can get away with and what
I can't.

For recirculation I cut the outflow of the valve at the pump exit to 50%
and cut it down further at the valve at the end of the recirc line. This
lets me fine tune it to about a quart a minute (minimum [spargeing]) to
2.5 qts a min max for the Recirc. I also refuse to lite the burner for
direct heat until i get the recirc going at the proper speed.

If you heat it to fast you'll start to boil on the bottom and the upward
motion will kill your run off, then you'll be scorching grain in no
time. This would be true in a grant situation also. Then again, you
could apply heat to just the grant, but that wouldn't be nearly as
efficient heat and time wise...

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Homebrewer
(32Km, 90deg) Rennerian



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:26:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: SPAM Complaint


Good morning.

Yesterday, tom at homebrewsupply.com "carpet bombed" several email
addresses hbd.org domain. This is unwanted, unsolicited and
unethical. I ask that you take appropriate action against the
homebrewsupply.com domain to prevent further incursions into our
domain. I further ask that you only allow true - not those that
pretend to have legitimately obtained permission - opt-in mass
mailers to use your networks.

To tom at homebrewsupply.com, shame on you for abusing our
resources. You are clearly not the type of vendor that HBD users
would patronize; nor would wish to be associated with in the
least way. I intend to block all mail from your domain in the
future as I would any other spam domain. Shame on you.

To the readership of the HBD: those who participate in side
lists on this domain are aware of the spam incident to which I
am referring. It is unacceptable to do so on our domain, no
matter what your affiliation. Please do not patronize
homebrewsupply.com. It will only promote further such abuses of
email. 

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday






Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:29:57 EST
From: Indwagj at aol.com
Subject: Using Cornelius keg as secondary

I'm a relative newby and have just aquired a few cornelius kegs.  Does anyone 
use these as secondary fermentors by putting a trap on the inlet line and 
plugging the outlet line?    I know that there is some sediment in the bottom 
of the secondary.  Can I pressurize this out through the outlet line or will 
it clog the line up??
John Wagner


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:42:08 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Phils wee problem

After weeks of "sperments" and other scientific research I think I may have
found the answer to Phil's wee wee question.  It has to do with the 
Prostrate Gland".  Now my theory is.  In your young adult years of life, a
percentage of the beer you drink goes to your prostrate and is stored there
much like the body stores fat.  The beer gut you start developing around the
age of thirty is just this gland getting larger and larger.  
The medical profession tells every male that when he reaches the age of
fifty he needs a yearly check up. There is  reasons for this.  Besides the
obvious reason of the Dr. enjoying inflicting pain by sticking a finger up
your butt, he is also priming your prostrate.  This is not well known
outside the medical profession, but the prostrate gland must be primed
before it becomes functional.  This procedure takes an average of ten
primings.  At the age of sixty the gland becomes fully functional.  I now
can drink one pint of beer in the evening and during the night I have to
visit the convince three to four times.  Each time I wee about a pint.  By
the time I reach one hundred years of age my beer gut will be gone and I
will wee one pint for each pint I drink.  
Phil I hope this helps.
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 07:31:02 -0600
From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Pump recirculation using a grant


>
>Q1:  Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow hose directly to
>the pump?  I thought I read there could be a problem with grain bed
>compaction if the pump outflow was too fast.

Yes, you can compact the grain bed by hooking the outflow directly up to a 
pump.

>Q2:  To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant between the mash
>outflow hose and pump inflow.  I plan on collecting about a gallon of wort
>in the grant and then priming and starting the pump.    Only problem I see
>is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge.

You will want a food-safe and heat-safe float switch.  Grainger sells a 
couple, as does mcmaster.com.  There are a couple of plans for lauter 
grants floating around on the net but they skimp on a few critical details, 
so you'll need to experiment a little bit.  You can try it without the 
float switch, but you will need to constantly monitor the outflow rate and 
make sure the pump rate matches it.  You also need to protect against back 
siphon from the boil kettle either with a backflow preventer or by keeping 
the flow into the boil kettle above the liquid line -- without splashing.

Building a lauter grant is on my to-do list, so I've looked at what is 
required. My plan included a cheap SS pot drilled at the bottom, a float 
switch, and a small pump.




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:50:32 -0600
From: jvoosen at usfamily.net
Subject: Root Beer

I currently have a keg of root beer pressurized with CO2.
If I transfer this to 20oz plastic pop bottles, how long 
would they stay carbonated?

Thanks!

Jim Voosen
Stillwater, Mn




- ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:16:48 -0700
From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com>
Subject: Turkey Fryers

I recently bought one of the Infinity Glo turkey fryers from Costco for
$79.95 and tried it out last Saturday for the 1st time in my shop/garage. It
was a warm day so I had both the rolling door and the back door open for
ventilation. The box says stainless steel pot, although it doesn't have any
markings or guage stamped on it. It looks and feels like stainless to me and
seems to be of good quality; its not as thin of metal as a couple of smaller
stainless pots I have. It does hold a little over 32 qts. The box also says
150,000 btu burner but I didn't really test it completely. It took about 25
minutes to bring 6 gallons of wort to a boil, but I didn't have it cranked.
I wasn't in a big hurry, so it seemed a waste of fuel to let the flame go
beyond the sides of the pot - although I'm sure it could boil a lot faster
if needed. Next time I'll give it a try at full bore just to see the
potential. The burner has 72 individual flame holes which avoids any
scorching of the wort that I guess you can get with a single flame burner.
The stand is stainless steel, about 12" tall and quite sturdy. Overall I was
very happy with the whole setup, it worked great and seems like a great
price. Can't wait to taste that Chocolate Stout!



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 09:28:33 -0600
From: "the freeman's" <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: grant

I use a grant on "the perfesser".   This grant circimvents the grain
compaction problem that can occur with even these small pumps.  I have
built in a high limit switch to prevent overflows and a low limit to
keep the pump from running dry.  These switches control either the
recirc pump or a solenoid valve on the output from the mash tun.

http://brewrats.org/hwb/er/images/er11.jpg
http://brewrats.org/hwb/er/images/er12.jpg

The switches use SS floats that work magnetic reed relays inside the
switch tubes.   They come form Graninger part # 4YM33.   An alternative
switch made from polypropylene  is available - also from Grainger part #
4YM37  - if you don't mind welding additional fittings into the side of
the Grant.

Hope this helps.

Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
K P Brewery - home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:33:00 -0500 
From: "Mcgregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL" <Arthur.Mcgregor at osd.mil>
Subject: RE: Ice for cooling wort

Hi All!

Henry  asked about using ice in the wort to cool before fermenting.  I have
never tied that fearing bacteria contamination, but have done something
close.  I take clean gallon jugs (held distilled water initially) and I fill
with tap water, place the lids on the jug,  and place in the freezer before
I brew.  By the time I am done brewing, the jugs are chilled down close to
freezing (or close to it, ice started forming), and I pour the ice water
into the wort to chill, then pour the cooled wort into the fermentation
container that also has a gallon of chilled water in it.  Alternate methods
are to put the wort in an ice bath, chill down and pour into fermentation
container as above.  I've been doing this for 180 batches since early 1993,
and not had any complaints, except from my spouse who says it stinks up the
house - - I rather like the smell ;^)

Hoppy Brewing
Art McGregor
arthur.mcgregor at osd.mil
Lorton, Virginia (Northern Virginia)





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:31:27 -0500 
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Local competitions

Hi brewlings:

In HBD #3802, Tom Byrnes asked about local competitions
and how others do it. The responses I saw seemed to be
concerned with local sanctioned type comps, with all the
standard trimmings. I interpreted the question to be about
clubs having 'mini' competitions at their meetings, and how 
they determine the club's homebrewer of the year. Is that
a correct interpretation, Tom?

If it isn't correct, then I will pose the question: How do other
clubs run their 'in club' competitions? By 'in club' I mean a
periodic competition in which club members enter beers and
score points, and accumulate points toward a 'hombrewer
of the year' award.

Our club has had a local 'in club' comp held during our
monthly meetings for the last 3 years where we have
awarded a 'homebrewer of the year' prize.

The first year it was just an 'enter any one beer' comp, with
brewers allowed to enter one beer each month. The judges
(different each month) tasted all beers and then selected
the top 3, which were awarded 3, 2, & 1 pts respectively.
These beers were judged on a 'which one you like best'
concept, not judged to style. Each entrant accumulated
their points and the one at the end of the year with the
most points was awarded the HBOY prize ($100).

Last year we added a styles comp, alternating between the
'open' comp (just like the previous year) on odd numbered
months, and a 'styles' comp on even numbered months.
The styles comp was judged using the BJCP guidelines and
scoresheet. Brewers could only enter one per month, and
all entrants in the styles comp accumulated their scores
and we awarded 2 HBOY awards ($50 ea).

The two winners got together and decided to use their
cash winnings to make 2 trophies. These have an area
to add new plates, and each year they will be passed on
to the new winner with a new nameplate added. If one
person wins the same trophy 3 consecutive years, a copy
is made and permanently awarded to that winner.

This year we changed the 'open' comp so that all entries 
were scored on a 50 pt scale, but just using the basic
scoring examples from the BJCP (45-50=World Class,
38-44=Excellent, etc) as guidelines. All entrants accum-
ulated points from all their entries rather than just getting
1st, 2nd, & 3rd place points. We also changed the styles
comp to include more styles, with at least one ale and one
lager each month.

Next year we are including even more styles, with all 26
categories represented. We thought about allowing
multiple entries per person with just the top score counted,
but on second thought this seemed inherently unfair to those
who can't brew more often. As in all previous years, a single
beer can only be entered in 1 comp per calendar year.

Are other clubs doing something similar? Does anyone have
any comments or suggestions for improvements?

Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:31:21 -0500 
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T)" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Wheat Yeast

Hi brewlings:

Art McGregor says:
>...
>Every time I brew a wheat beer (extract based) the wheat
>flavor from the yeast only lasts a few batches, then fades
>away.  I wash the yeast as described in the yeast.faq (Part
>3: Yeast Washing for the Homebrewer). 
>I have had the problem with both the Wyeast # 3056
>(Bavarian Wheat Yeast) and Wyeast # 3068 (Wheinstephen
>Wheat Yeast).   Is this a common problem? Is there a way
>to solve it, such as adding yeast nutrients or energizers?  
>...

Art, I don't have a solution, but I have noticed the same
thing with 3068, and have heard comments from others
saying the same thing. I brew AG batches, so it isn't due
to extract brewing. I have been yeast ranching for about
4 years, and this is the only one in which I've seen a real
change of character.

I think the problem with the 3056 may be due to it being
a blend. I think over time one strain would tend to
dominate.

I'm going to try the White Labs WLP300. If this exhibits
the same behavior, I'll just resign myself to purchasing
this yeast when I want the weizen character.

- --------------------------------------------

Jeff Renner describes how he aerates his wort - it seems
to me to be an excellent way to do it. My method is sort
of similar in that I use the pump to combine (HEPA filtered)
air into my wort, but I direct the wort into the fermenter at
that time. I like the idea of pitching and continuing the 
recirculation until proper temps are reached, and will be
trying it soon. Thanks for the suggestion, Jeff.

- --------------------------------------------

Jeff Gladish responded about lower scores in the second
round of the NHC. I agree with Jeff that a beer shouldn't
necessarily score lower in the second round just because
of stiffer competition. I haven't had this problem myself.

For those who have had problems in the second round, I
would suggest this: When you enter a beer in the 1st round,
bottle 4 bottles at that time and put 3 away for the 2nd
round, so if it advances, you have them ready to go. Then I
would expect that the scores will be much closer to the
1st round scores.


Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 10:37:54 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: pump recirculation

Mike Spinelli asks about recirculating with a March pump (as
opposed to an April pump...badump-bump!  I'll be here all
week people!)

I've been using a mag drive pump since last year.  Had the
same questions as you at the start, but have since come up
with some easy ways to make it work.

1)  20 minutes before you want to recirculate, give your
mash a great big stir.  Try not to incorporate much air, but
you want the grain to be evenly distributed.

2)  10 minutes after stirring, hook up the pump.  Leave the
pump valve closed but the mash tun valve open.  Crack the
pump valve until you see a trickle of wort start to exit the
tun.  Let it continue to trickle out until the pump cavity
is full.  Shut off the pump valve when the pumphead is full.

3)  Plug in your pump.  The mash-tun valve should be wide
open and the pump valve should be closed at this point.
Slowly start to crack open the pump valve.  If a bunch of
grain starts coming out, open the pump valve all the way for
three seconds to clear the grain out.

4)  I've found that leaving the pump valve about 1/8 open
gives a nice flow.  Once you start recirculating clear, it's
easy to increase the flow if you want to.

5)  I now direct-fire my mash tun.  This requires increased
recirculation flow.  After about 10 mins of recirculating at
1/8 open, I gradually open the valve to about 1/4 open.  The
exact opening distances are marked on the valve with a
Sharpie.  Wort is cloudy at first when you increase the
opening, but clears within 2-3 minutes.  I'm guessing at
least 1.5gal/min gets recirculated.

Running 1/4 open I can direct-fire the kettle and get a
temperature increase of about two degrees/minute.  I can
increase or decrease this rate by increasing or decreasing
the heat applied.  Gentle heating works best...applying
serious heat can cause the wort under my screen to boil.
That screws up the recirc and often makes me have to reset
the grain bed.

If I'm doing a wheat beer (or beer where a protein rest is
necessary) I'll often recirculate the entire time.  Mash in
for the protein rest, set bed, recirc and heat to the beta
rest, hold, heat up to the alpha rest, hold, heat up to mash
out.  With the pump running continuously I can't tell you
how easy it is.  But I only have one pump so if I'm
recirculating it means that I cannot transfer the sparge
water via pump.  Oh well.  The great thing about
recirculating with the pump is you know that the entire
temperature of your mash is the same +/- one degree F.

I should mention that my mash tun is a converted keg with a
SS screen in the bottom.  The screen was sold as a hop-back
by the now defunct Stainless in Seattle.  It's not supposed
to work for heavy mashes, yet I've managed to mash 42lbs of
grain in it with no problems.  Translation--you should be
able to use the pump to recirc with any system.

Cheers!
- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:38:08 -0800 (PST)
From: John Clark <a.jclark at rocketmail.com>
Subject: More on O2

Greetings,

It sounds like a lot talk about O2. I would like to
air a question and an observation if I may. 

First, I do not use an air pump. My wort gets all the
room bugs that go in when I rack my wort. I do as much
as I can with my hose and that is about it. I do try
to use active yeast cultures and always do my best to
start on an active yeast cake, so I tend to rack to a
secondary as I am starting a primary. No problems as
of today. Granted I have only done a little over a
dozen batches over the past year. I only do
five-gallon batches, with the exception of my meads,
they are three gallon.

Now as for racking and bottling and O2, I have read a
lot here on it and I realize for every Master brewer
there is an equal and opposite Master brewer. But for
the sake of an apprentice brewer, what is the big deal
about O2 during racking and bottling. I have never had
a problem and I do nothing in particular to cut down
on the O2. I am not sloppy in racking or bottling. My
motto is clean, disinfect, and sanitize, not
necessarily in that order. I do not use O2 absorbing
bottle caps, but it never fails that I hear people
tell me I should do this or that to cut done on the O2
exposure during racking and bottling. I just had a two
month old scotch ale last night and it showed no signs
of oxidation. In fact none of the other brewers have
ever complained about my brews. Had I not brought up
the issue, they would still be none the wiser. Am I
sitting on a O2 time bomb here or are some brewers
just more paranoid then others?






Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 23:47:52 +0800
From: "Alexandre Carminati" <carminat at email.com>
Subject: Homebrewers in Brasil (Brazil)

I'm looking for other homebrewers in Brasil,
 more specifically in Porto Alegre-RS.
 If you are one of them or know somebody
 please write to carminat at email.com. 
Estou a procura de outros cervejeiros amadores
 no Brasil, de preferencia em Porto Alegre-RS.
 Se vc e' um deles ou conhece alguem, escreva para carminat at email.com 


Thanks 

Alexandre Carminati 


- -- 



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:46:41 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pcalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Re: Ice for cooling wort

Before I made my immersion chiller and went to full volume boils, I used to
use ice.  I  prepared blocks of ice in advance.  I would boil 5 gallons of
water and let it cool over night with the cover on.  Then, I would sanitize
5 plastic containers I picked up for $1.00 each.  They held about 5 quarts
each.  I would nearly fill them with the boiled and cooled water and freeze
them.

I let the boiled water cool over night to minimize the heat load on the
freezer.  Putting 5 gallons of hot water in a freezer could defrost
everything.  Of course, as the water and air in the boiler cooled and
contracted, I suppose there was a risk some nasties could be drawn in but it
didn't seem to be a problem.

When I started to boil the wort, I would remove the containers from the
freezer and let them warm a little.  By the time the I was ready to cool the
wort, the blocks of ice were loose from the container.  I would break up the
ice blocks with an ice pick and dump the chunks in the wort.  This speeded
up the cooling considerably.

That is the way I used to do it and it seemed to work.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:43:25 -0600
From: Dan.Stedman at PILLSBURY.COM
Subject: Re: Pump recirculation using a grant



From: "Spinelli, Mike" <paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil>

>Q1:  Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow hose directly to
>the pump?  I thought I read there could be a problem with grain bed
>compaction if the pump outflow was too fast.

I've had compaction problems on one occasion when I first started using my RIMS.
The simple fix is to make sure you have a  valve on the outflow of the pump to
control how fast you are recirculating. After all, that is all you are doing by
using a grant - letting gravity dictate your flow. It's pretty easy to get a
feel for the correct recirc rate using a valve and you won't have to worry about
hot-side aeration, forgetting about the grant and having gravity push your fresh
wort out of the grant and onto your not-so-fresh concrete, cleaning the grant,
etc...

>Q2:  To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant between the mash
>outflow hose and pump inflow.  I plan on collecting about a gallon of wort
>in the grant and then priming and starting the pump.    Only problem I see
>is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge.

See above. Additionally, I haven't had any problems priming my magnetic-drive
pump without a grant simply by opening all of my valves and starting the pump as
soon as I know that wort is flowing via gravity through the pump.

Dan in Minnetonka





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:48:51 -0600
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pump recirculation of wort


Hi all,

	Mike Spinelli asks about using a pump to recirculate
the wort in his mashtun, prior to sparging.  Precisely, he
asks:
   >Q1:  Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow 
	hose directly to the pump?  I thought I read there 
	could be a problem with grain bed compaction if the 
	pump outflow was too fast.

Yes, Mike, there can be a problem, but it's easy to avoid this.
Presumably, you have a valve at or near the outlet of your pump
that can be used to throttle back the flow to a reasonable rate.
If you keep the flow rate pretty low, it's easy to avoid compacting
the grain bed.  It sounds like you're not planning to apply any
heat during the recirculation, so you can keep the flow as low
as you like without worry.  If you're adding heat, either by an
electric element or by running a burner under the mash tun, you
have to keep the flow rate high enough to avoid scorching, but
that's not at all hard to do.  In my case, using a natural gas
burner under a Sanke-type keg with a false bottom, I can get away
with a gallon or so per minute without any scorching or compacting
(as long as there's not too much in the way of wheat or flaked
adjuncts in the grist,) even with 30+ lbs of grain.  You can get
a feel for how the recirculation is going easily if you use flexible
tubing:  it begins to "flatten out" a bit under suction, and this
will warn you to slow the flow down, if necessary.

   >Q2:  To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant
	between the mash outflow hose and pump inflow.  I plan 
	on collecting about a gallon of wort in the grant and 
	then priming and starting the pump.    Only problem I see
	is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge.

Yes, you can do this pretty easily, but it's not really necessary
if you keep an eye on your flow rates.  As far as priming the pump,
my advice is to prime the pump before mashing in, making sure you've
run all the bubbles out of the system, then close the drain valve
and mash in.  It makes life much easier later on, since it's hard to 
prime the pump with the exit valve closed most of the way.

	Overall, using a pump when mashing is a very simple
process that adds a lot of benefits, with precise temperature
control and very clear runoff being the most evident.   Here's
an easy example of how to exploit this without working hard.
For a recent "Double Imperial IPA" recipe, I was planning on
an OG of about 1.075-80, with about half the grist being Weissheimer
Munich malt.  Even with a high-attenuating yeast like Wyeast's 
1007, I was a bit worried about getting a dry enough finish in the
beer.  To be sure, I doughed in in the 148F range and rested for
30 minutes, to get enough beta-amylase activity to guarantee a
fermentable wort.  I then started recirculation and (gentle) heat
to raise the temperature to 157F  at  45 minutes and rested for 20 more
minutes, then more heat and recirculation to hit 164F  at  75 minutes
and begin runoff/sparge.  When beginning recirculation, I have to
clear my pump's gate valve with a quick flick, every minute or so,
until the grain bed sets itself, but after a few minutes, there's
little to do but keep an eye on things.  The recirculation assures 
even temperatures throughout the mash, and you get crystal clear 
sweet wort into the kettle.  What a great tool!  I'm sure you'll
never go back after using it to mash, Mike.

	By the way, the Imperial IPA went from OG 1.076 to 1.018
in two weeks, with what should be 100+ IBUs to balance.  Should be
fun.

			Paul Shick,
			Cleveland Hts, OH


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:18:19 -0500
From: Lauriefix at att.net

From: Lauriefix at att.net
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:58:44 EST
Subject: update on George Fix from his wife, Laurie


First off, let me thank you for posting this on the digest.  I know, that 
this is a place for brewing talk, etc.  But, this is the only access that I 
have to reach all of you at once.  
Dear fellow loved homebrewers, beer enthusiasts, friends, ,,,
THANK YOU!  If I could reach out and touch all of you that have written and 
hug you for your emotional, heart felt, touching, humorous!!! (have to say 
that one!) emails to George concerning his illness, I would.  You cannot even 
imagine what a wonderful group of people you can ALL call yourself a part of. 
 You are all part of a team.  A great team of humans that have love, concern, 
and , Oh, I wish I knew how to say this, but a determination of feelings for 
good.  A lack of thinking of yourself and putting somebody else first.  That 
is love.  That is what this world is about.  George has a lung cancer called 
small cell cancer (even though he has quit smoking for over 7 years).  The 
cancer at start was in his lungs, liver, hip, bone, etc., they call this 
extensive.  The good news is that it does react to chemotherapy.  He has just 
had his third chemotherapy treatment.  He did have radiation for the bone, 
and it is now without pain.  The recent catscan showed that the tumors are 
non detectable in his lungs, and a third shrunk everywhere else.  He is a 
fighter, he is brave, he is determined, he is crazy!! :)  Crazy because he is 
as energetic as always (as you may remember from his talks).  He is 
exercising an hour a day on a stationary bike, and even working most days.  
There is alot of emotional scary circumstances as you can imagine going on, 
but this email is to thank all of YOU!  Your prayers are working!  Your 
emails, there must be over 400, are sooo wonderful.  I cry at most of them 
and revel in the memories that you all have of George.  He is trying to email 
all of you back personally.  I am sure that you have received an email. IF 
NOT, write him again, he is trying to keep up.  Mainly, you all need to know, 
this HBD is not for just a common "thread" as they always say. Or, to agree 
or disagree.  This is a group of people from all around the world who log in, 
and you know what??? We all care.  We care about all of you.  Look who we 
turned to (I turned to!) to find comfort, and a place where George could hear 
that he helped the brewing world.  He does love you, brewing, and the 
scientific side.  AND, he sure get's emotional when he talks about it!!!!  He 
is so funny, he has always said, I think with my mind all day, I want to work 
with my hands!!!!  Well, ok, enough emotional stuff, (this is what you get 
from a brewer's wife!) Thank you thank you thank you,,, you are all the best, 
and the prayers are working.  Please think of us, as we will you.
love,
Laurie Fix
George's email Brwyfoam at aol.com
Laurie's Lauriefix at att.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:44:22 -0500
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreiden at math.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: rootbeer

Ed from Ohio says:

> I've been asked to make some rootbeer for some non-drinking friends
 ...

Um.  If they don't drink, what are they going to do with it?

- --Danny in West Lafayette, Indiana

(Sorry Ed, I couldn't resist.)



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:47:33 -0500
From: "Audie Kennedy" <audie_24293 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:  Ice for cooling wort

Hello
"I'm using chlorinated municipal water in my icemaker, and
emptying it about every other week, am I fairly safe in continuing to do
this?"
I was an extract brewer for about 10 years or so, and did exactly what you
are doing, with no ill effects.  It depends on your water supply.  I went to
the water plant here (a VERY rural area) and they gave me a container to
take a water sample, and instructions for using it.  They then analyzed the
sample, and gave me a report (which they kindly explained to me).  Of
course, if there have been repairs or breaks between the supply and your
home, risk of contamination exists, but I have never had a problem, and I
still add cold water to my brew without any special preparations, and
haven't had a problem.  Doesn't mean I won't, and there are going to be a
bunch who will tell you not to do it.  Just depends on how much you are
willing to risk contamination.
Audie L. Kennedy
Wise, Va.




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:37:41 -0500
From: Brian Levetzow <levetzowbt at home.com>
Subject: RE: Ice for cooling wort

Henry wrote:

>I'm extract brewing and in order to bring my 2 gal boil down to pitching 
>temp, I've been emptying my icemaker and dumping it directly into the 
>wort. I have read that this is a bad idea, because of the introduction 
>of critters, but I've been doing this for about 10 batches now with no
>problems. If I'm using chlorinated municipal water in my icemaker, and 
>emptying it about every other week, am I fairly safe in continuing to do 
>this? Any body with longer experience than me doing this out there?

Henry,

Run yourself down to the local hardware store and buy an ice-maker water
filter.  They're inexpensive, easy to install, you're ice will taste
better, and more importantly, you'll never have to worry about this
homebrewing technique again.  Here's two examples:

http://www.cfsn.com/fridgefilter.html
http://www.h2owarehouse.com/omni-water-filters/fridge-water-filters.htm

Prost!
- -- 
+++++++++++++++
Brian Levetzow
~
Laurel, MD
[425.7, 118.5] Apparent Rennerian


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:20:21 EST
From: Svlnroozls at aol.com
Subject: Re: Pump-recirc


In a message dated 12/4/01 8:13:53 PM, homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:

<< Subject: Pump recirculation using a grant

HBDers,

Have a Q regarding recirculation of wort.  I've been using a March pump for
my 1 barrel syatem for a few years to pump sparge water and cooled wort into
my fermenter with good results.  

I'd like to start using the pump to recirc the wort prior to sparging.  

Q1:  Is there a problem with hooking the mash tun outflow hose directly to
the pump?  I thought I read there could be a problem with grain bed
compaction if the pump outflow was too fast.

Q2:  To avoid the above, I'm planning on putting a grant between the mash
outflow hose and pump inflow.  I plan on collecting about a gallon of wort
in the grant and then priming and starting the pump.    Only problem I see
is keeping a constant level in the grant thruought the sparge.

Any thoughts?

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ  
 >>

Mike,

My thought is that this will work perfectly fine.  The only thing you can do 
is to turn on the pump intermittently to give the grant time to fill up 
enough.  It is most important to allow a constant flow from the lauter tun, 
but it doesn't matter if it gets recirculated at varying rates, just so long 
as it doesn't hit the mash hard enough to stir up the bed.  Most homebrewers 
I know use the saucepan-recirculation method, and for my money, gravity and a 
ball valve make for the easiest runoff.  If your boiling kettle is the same 
height or higher than your lauter tun, a grant and pump are the easiest 
option.

Brew on!

C.T. Davis
Los Angeles, CA


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:36:42 -0600
From: "" <wctobler at brazoria.net>
Subject: Re:Pump recirculation using a grant


Mike, You won't have any trouble at all circulating the wort in the mash tun.
I have a HERMS system, and do not use a grant.  I use a Bazooka T screen (From
Zymico) and a False bottom in a ten gallon Polar ware pot.  You will have stuck
mash problems if you try to pump too fast.  I just cut the circulation way back,
and don't have any problems.  There are two systems that I know of that use
grants, and you may want to look at them.  They have solenoids that are
activated by high/low level switches, to keep a level in the grant.  Both sites
have great pictures and explain their systems well.  The first site is Bill
Freemen, AKA Elder Rat.

> http://www.brewrats.org/hwb/er/

> And the second site is Wyane Holder, AKA Zymie.
 
> http://www.zymico.com/rims.shtml

> A little over 1000miles SSW of Rennerian (0,0)

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
>
> 



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:00:46 -0500
From: "Larry Cooney" <lyvewire1 at hotmail.com>
Subject: __publication_only__

Is the heather they talk about the same as the heather plants we grow in the
flower bed? Or is it something grown in Britan/England?


Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:00:26 -0500
From: "Tim R" <par8head at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE:Gruit, herbs used in beer

RJ writes:

<i>"Someday, I'll find some heather, as I've always had an interest in that
too."</i>


I have two bags of heather awaiting a Scotch Ale recipe.  I just can't
remember where I bought them.  All my herbs are made by "Brewer's Garden"
and I know they sell heather.   I thought I bought them at Hop Tech, but
can't find them on-line now.  I'm sure someone here can help.

Also, anyone have any recipe recommendations for a good "Heather Ale?"



Return to table of contents

---