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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Subject: Hop gardening help needed ("Larry Cooney")
  Tobacco/smoked beer (GordonRick)
  Real Guinness is not paltry ("Tom & Dee McConnell")
  Electric Squirrel Saga ("Tom & Dee McConnell")
  re: Hop gardening help needed ("Richardson, Martin")
  RE: Yeast Trouble and a new ? ("Brad Boes")
  RE: cold conditioning koelsch ("Houseman, David L")
  Re: Hop gardening help needed (gsferg)
  Re: second running (Joel Plutchak)
  Fw: Yeast Pitching Rates (Alan Meeker)
  Smoke 'em if ya got 'em (Nathan Kanous)
  Squirrels from Hell! ("Charles R. Stewart")
  Samiclaus (LJ Vitt)
  Newbe question about brewing quantity ("Hodges, Walt")
  Re: Bottle Testing with baking soda (Spencer W Thomas)
  re: Hop gardening help needed (Rama Roberts)
  Re: second running (Spencer W Thomas)
  Water Softener ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  Request for recommendations of Brewpubs in the Mesa AZ (Phoenix) area ("Hodges, Walt")


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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:16:34 -0500
From: "Larry Cooney" <lyvewire1 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Subject: Hop gardening help needed

"Paul Kensler" WRITES:  I have some really obnoxious squirrels digging up my
hop beds...Has anyone experienced the same problem and found a way to beat
the little buggers or at least dissuade them from tearing up the hop garden?

Well Paul... I think squirrel would go good with a nice cool Homebrew! And
if you have a recipie for Tsing Tao from China... well that may solve the
cat issue!

Larry Cooney
Wesley Chapel, Florida



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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:35:49 EST
From: GordonRick at aol.com
Subject: Tobacco/smoked beer

Ref: Tobacco in beer.
Sorry to keep this thread alive, but I couldn't stop myself.
If you've ever had the pleasure of drinking an original "Rauchbier" (smoked 
beer) from The Schlenkerla restaurant/brewery in Bamberg, Germany (a couple 
of blocks from the old Rathaus in the middle of the river) you will have come 
as close to cigar-in-your-beer heaven as you would ever hope to. Skip the 
tobacco in the mash and smoke the grains (or buy smoked barley from 
Weyermann's).  Substitute as much as you dare into your favorite Marzen 
recipe and go for it. I normally use 2-3 lbs. per 5 gal. but let your palette 
rule. Yes, I've been in the Copenhagen induced four-point posture myself as a 
teenager, as have many of you I'm sure. I've never felt so sick in my life 
(of course we were chugging "little" Miller's at the time....Hmm.)  Prost!

Rick
(somewhere way south of Jeff Renner)
Hopfen und Malz, Gott Erhalt's


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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:37:07 -0700
From: "Tom & Dee McConnell" <tdmc at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Real Guinness is not paltry

ref Craig Olson's 14 Dec 2001 post about the 
alc% of Guinness being a paltry 3.7%.

Don't be to quick to hammer Guinness.  Memory 
serves me right, what is served in Ireland is 
closer to 2.5% (any UKHBD folks out there)- ever 
wonder how the lads drink all day and survive?  
At 2.5%, you drown long before getting drunk.

I lived in England and have had Guinness in 
Dublin, Ireland (excellent, smooth, well 
balanced, give me more); various places in 
England (quite good, fairly smooth, balanced, 
I'll have another one the next time at the pub). 
 Then I came back to America for a visit.  Went 
to a pub.  The only thing they had decent was 
Guinness - saved by the bell.  So I had one in 
America - (bad, flavors on edge, roasty toasty 
in the face, I'll have a Coke instead).

Don't know what Yanks do the it, but they sure 
manage to ruin it (maybe AB has inserted agents 
at the brewery?).  I won't drink Guinness in 
America any more - it is just not a good drink 
here - please fill up my Coke glass.


In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is
bacteria. - German Proverb


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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:37:07 -0700
From: "Tom & Dee McConnell" <tdmc at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Electric Squirrel Saga

Maybe Paul Kensler could fix his squirrel 
problems by spraying his hop garden with a 
tobacco tea?  Or maybe puree some habenaro~s and 
spray that about?

Love your idea about electrifying a grid.  Be 
sure you REALLY know what you are doing first.  
It can be done (witness electric fences), but 
remember they are 100% non-descriminating.  I 
recall a fellow Boy Scout stopping to pee during 
a hike.  Now boys being boys, just aim it to the 
side of the trail and take care of business you 
see.  BUT, at the side of this trail was a 
pulsating electric fence obscured by weeds.  
Poor lad got zapped and couldn't move.  About 
the time he almost got the faucet shut off, 
another zap caused key muscles to contract and 
you guess it - the faucet wouldn't turn off.  
That day, the whole troop learned the real 
meaning of having the piss scared out of us.  
Serious, mate, make sure you REALLY know what 
you are doing.

Then, of course, you could rent Caddyshack and 
apply the lessons learned from that (and post 
the pictures, please)

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is
bacteria. - German Proverb


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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:18:44 +1100
From: "Richardson, Martin" <RicharMP at Pasminco.com.au>
Subject: re: Hop gardening help needed

Paul says:
>>>I've thought about a grid of electrified mesh topped with razor wire and
patrolled by Dobermans surrounding each hop hill, but there has to be an
easier way...<<<
Maybe a few strategically placed mouse/rat traps would work. If you mulch
you could even cover the traps with what you mulch with, and give the
critters a surprise.
Hope this helps.
                                                         Cheers, Martin 


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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:54:43 -0600
From: "Brad Boes" <gerald.boes at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Yeast Trouble and a new ?

Thanks everyone for all the great replies.  Just ordered the equipment for
doing starters.  Now- another quick question:  I saw in the back of the
issue of BYO currently available at our grocery store that there was once
produced a beastie called a siphon weight.  It looked interesting.  Anyone
know if one can be purchased today?  And if so, where?
Thanks
Brad Boes
Princeton, Il
[297.5, 257.7] Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:54:22 -0600
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: cold conditioning koelsch

Contrary to the advice below, my experience is that when I bottle condition
my lagers and Koelsch (or Alt) -- any beer that's been lagering for a while
- -- I do warm it up just by removing from my lagering fridge the day or so
before, and I pitch a new starter of yeast.  Since I lager in corny kegs,
and perhaps haven't been vigilant in bleeding off the CO2 produced, warming
a day or so brings CO2 out of solution and makes my final carbonation level
more predictable.  Otherwise I'd use less sugar to prime but probably not
calculate the amount correctly.  This just seems easier to me.  

I have not had any problems with this introducing additional chill haze or
problems with off-yeast flavors.  I do often, but not always, fine my lagers
with gelatin at the end of the lagering period; this seems to help with
chill haze and probably necessitates adding additional yeast.  I ferment my
lagers at room temperatures for two weeks or so and usually they do not go
back into cold conditioning.  Certainly final priming of bottle-conditioned,
lagered beers are not done at cold conditioning temperatures.  

Dave Houseman
SE PA

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:51:34 -0500
From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net>
Subject: cold conditioning koelsch

Leo Vitt wrote about lagering and then bottling a koelsch-style ale, "Put 
the keg into refrigeration and "lager" the beer for 2 months.  Then warm 
the beer up and bottle with corn sugar, producing bottled conditioned 
Kolsch."

I think it would be better not to warm up the beer before bottling.  This 
defeats some of the purposes of lagering by rousing the dormant yeast that 
you just spent two months putting to sleep.  This may bring back the chill 
haze and the rough yeast flavors that you took so much care to get rid of. 
 There will probably still be enough yeast in suspension to carbonate even 
if you bottle when cold, but it may take a little longer.

Jeff Gladish, Tampa, Fl. (989.5,175.5)





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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:13:47 -0500
From: gsferg at clary.gwi.net
Subject: Re: Hop gardening help needed


Paul Kensler complained about squirrels harrassing his hop beds:

>I have some really obnoxious squirrels digging up my hop beds - they are
>completely exposing the rhizomes.  I cover them back up, and they dig them
>back up.  Also the occasional constitutional visit from the neighbor's cat,
>but that is more insult than injury.  Has anyone experienced the same
>problem and found a way to beat the little buggers or at least dissuade them
>from tearing up the hop garden?


Interesting. Apparently, since they're not after the hop rhizomes themselves, 
they must be after something else- life is typically too short and precious 
for beady-eyed bucktoothed "prey" critters to go about wasting their time 
maliciously and repeatedly digging up the same dirt for no apparent reason. A 
cache of nuts perhaps?

I've never had trouble with squirrels attacking my hops. A few aphids and some 
tent catapillars maybe, but not squirrels. Are you sure they are squirrels and 
not moles? Moles will do a lot of excavation searching for worms to eat. Do 
they attack anything else in the general area? Find what they're after and get 
rid of it and you should solve your problem. That said...

>I've thought about a grid of electrified mesh topped with razor wire and
>patrolled by Dobermans surrounding each hop hill, but there has to be an
>easier way...

Land mines! Small explosive anti-rodent devices would be fun to build, 
spectacularly effective, if not particularly sporting. Might be a little hard 
on your neighbor's cats however. If you are in a rural setting you could try 
staking out the plot and blowing the little critters away with a shotgun or 
 .22 calibre pistol. If you're in an urban setting where the use of firearms is 
discouraged, you might need to use something quieter- like a blow gun or CO2 
pistol. This would be effective and sporting, and you could eat the little 
suckers! Squirrels are best stewed since they can be kinda tough.

If you are vegetarian, a pacifist, or just find yourself playing the role of 
Wiley E. Coyote vs the Road Runner and failing miserably, less violent 
measures might be in order. If you can't convince them to go away, fence them 
out; get yourself some chicken wire and construct cages around your plants, 
burying the bottom edge deep enough to keep them from going under the wire. 
Make the cages several feet in diameter and several feet high- I've used this 
approach effectively in my garden against deer, rabbits, and wood chucks.

George-

- -- 
George S. Fergusson <gsferg at clary.gwi.net>
Oracle DBA, Programmer, Humorist, and Pest Control Specialist
Wooden Bear Brewery
Whitefield, Maine US [729.7, 79.6] Renerian
- --------------
I am a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess.





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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:19:42 -0600 (CST)
From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: second running

In HBD #3814 "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com> writes:
>Is there a tool (software) out there to help me figure out what the
>gravity on my second batch will be... theorectically?  What have other
>done on second running batches off of a BIG first running?

   I've been doing quite a few first- and second-runnings
batches the past couple years.  I either do a standard fly
sparge or a something halfway between batch and fly sparging.
I don't sweat gravity too much, but figure I'll get a total
72% extraction, with 50% for the first beer and 22% for the
second.  I plan my grain bill from there.  Works fairly well.

Joel Plutchak <plutchak at [...]>
Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots
Champaign Illinois USA



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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:16:04 -0500
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Fw: Yeast Pitching Rates

There have been several recent posts requesting info on yeast pitching.
Since traffic seems relatively slow lately, I'm re-posting this info on
yeast pitching rates:

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most published sources give optimal or commercial pitching rates which aim
at achieving from 5 million to 20 million /viable/ yeast cells per ml of
wort.
Another commonly cited rule of thumb, which takes into account differences
in starting gravities, is to pitch one million yeast, per ml of wort, per
degree
Plato (~.004 SG units). Both of these approaches give rates within the 5-20
million yeast per ml range for "normal" gravity worts.

[Note that these are pitch rates for ALE yeasts. The recommended rates
for LAGER yeast range anywhere from 2X to 5X higher.]

So, for ale yeasts, the bottom line is that one needs to pitch a total of
about 200 billion yeast cells into a typical 5 gallon batch to achieve the
"commercial" pitch rate. How does one achieve this in the homebrew setting?
Well, it will depend, to a large extent, on what type of yeast you are
planning
on using for your pitch:


DRY YEAST - Supposedly, dry yeast packets contain some 5-40 billion
yeast cells per gram weight (published values vary from source to source.
Note that these are counts of VIABLE yeast, so I imagine much of this
variabiltiy in published counts is due to differences in the care with which
the yeast was handled and stored which will, in turn, impact the measured
viability of the yeast) At any rate, it seems that a value of 10 billion
cells
per gram dried yeast is a reasonably conservative estimate to work with.
This leads to the conclusion that one should pitch about 20 GRAMS OF
DRIED YEAST PER 5 GALLON BATCH. This means using  two, 10 gram
packages to reach the "commercial" pitch rate. Alternatively, you could
start
with less if you plan on "stepping-up" the dried yeast following
reactivation
prior to pitching. Also, according to Ray Daniels, good results can be had
by
using up to 10-fold less yeast - what he refers to as the "homebrew
pitch rate," although Daniels is quick to point out that, in his opinion,
this
should be viewed as a bare minimum pitch rate.


LIQUID YEAST "SMACK PACKS" - These contain about 40-50 ml volume
and supposedly generate some 2.5 billion yeast when properly swelled
(published ranges vary between 1 billion and 5 billion cells, so 2.5
billion seems reasonable). So, if you were to use a single, standard sized
pack
to start your 5 gallon batch of beer you'd be UNDERPITCHING BY 100-FOLD!
(compared to commercial pitch rates) This means you would either need to buy
100 smack packs (ouch!) or "step-up" the starter by innoculating the smack
pack
into a larger volume of sterile wort in order to grow more yeast. Increasing
the
yeast numbers by 100X may sound a bit daunting, but don't worry, you can let
the magic of "exponential growth" do the work for you. Since the yeast grow
by simple cell division, the population essentially doubles with each yeast
generation (generation times can be as fast as two hours when the yeast are
really
happy and cranking right along). If we are starting with a swolen smack pack
we have about 2.5 billion cells. Now, if we transfer these yeast to fresh
sterile
wort, in just one generation we'll have 5 billion, then 10 billion, then 20
billion
and so on... resulting in our desired goal of 200 billion cells in only 6 to
7 yeast
generations. For actively growing yeast, this entire process will take less
than 24
hours to complete.

 The only problem we run into is that there is a limit to how dense a
satrter
culture can be grown because of problems due to overcrowding - they will
eat up all the nutrients (actually there will usualy be only one so-called
"limiting" nutrient which will run out first, typically nitrogen if the
wort  is well aerated) and be swimming in a sea of waste products (aka-
beer!).

 The take home message is that it requires several LITERS (or about 1
gallon) of stepped-up starter to reach the commercial pitch rate. Most
people can probably handle making a gallon starter, but usually you
want to let the yeast settle prior to pitching (refrigeration will help
promote this) so that you can pour off the used wort which, if you're
allowing air in like you should, would negatively affect the flavor of
the finished beer. Remember also that you don't have to step up to
the whole gallon volume all at one time, you could do it in stages such
as 4 X 1/4 gallon steps, as long as you make sure you are getting most
of the yeast through to the next step...


USED YEAST SLURRY - Published suggested pitching rates rates call for
3 oz (weight) of thick slurry per 5 gallon batch, or about 4-8 oz liquid
volume (approx. 60% solids). Caveats here include:
(1) There can be a lot of variability in the amount of non-yeast solids
present in yeast slurries.
(2) There can be significant variation in the number of viable cells (due to
strain differences, differnces in fermentation or storage conditions; for
example
higher gravity ferments or high temperatures, etc.)
(3) Viability can decrease markedly with time post-fermentation. This is
especially true at higher storage temperatures.
(4) These yeast have just finished ANAEROBIC fermentation and, depending
upon their state at original pitch,  the original pitch size, and wort
composition,
may be criticaly depleted of sterols and unsaturated fatty acids. Thus, wort
OXYGENATION will be VERY IMPORTANT if this yeast is going to be
re-pitched, much more so than for a well oxygenated/aerated starter from a
stepped-up smack pack. They may also have severley depleted their reserve
carbohydrates (glycogen and trehalose).

 There are MANY potential ills attributable to underpitching. I know my
beers
improved DRAMATICALLY once I started pitching decent amounts of yeast.
Good luck, and hope this helps!

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD





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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:55:43 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em

Hello Everyone,
Tobacco Stout?  Not here.  Thanks for the offer.

However, I'm from Wisconsin.  There are three constants in Wisconsin.  At 
least 3 culinary constants in Wisconsin.  Beer, cheese, and sausage.  Guess 
what?  Many sausages are smoked.  Smoked sausage, smoked cheese, 
smoked.....yup, you guessed it, smoked beer.

As I understand it, in Germany malt is smoked by the same folks that smoke 
meats and sausages.  So, here I sit in Madison, my happy little homestead 
literally within 1 mile of a sausage company (thankfully it's south so I 
don't smell it all the time).  So my brain starts working 
overtime.  Actually at a recent Madison Homebrewers meeting I got talking 
with another brewer about smoked beer and I kinda got the bug.

I thought "hey, call the folks at the sausage company and ask them to smoke 
some malt to make a beer."  What a great idea!!!  I need more reasons to 
make beer.  So here are a few thoughts and questions that I have.

I've heard that malt should be smoked "wet".  How much water should be 
added to the malt before smoking?  How long should I have the malt 
smoked?  How long should I allow the malt to rest before brewing?

Next, recipes?  As I read it, Schlenkerla Rauchbier is in the Marzen 
style.  How much of the recipe should be smoked?  All munich malt 
recipe?  Half munich, half pilsner?  Some crystal?  Buy up the last 
reserves of DWC aromatic and make a 100% aromatic malt rauchbier?  Wouldn't 
that be an interesting treat?

C'mon folks let's talk brewing.  The digest has been a bit slow.  Give me 
some input here.  Hell, this could make for an interesting Zymurgy article, 
eh Ray?
nathan in madison, wi



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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:21:03 -0500
From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com>
Subject: Squirrels from Hell!

Paul -

	I well know the havoc the Gaithersburg squirrels can wreck on gardens.
Last year the little bastards ate several hundred tulip bulbs out of my
yard, digging up my flower beds and leaving only one solitary tulip this
past spring.  Over the past few weeks, they've eaten over 50 pounds of bird
food from my bird feeder.  So I've declared war on them.  At first I was
going to get an air rifle and thin the population a bit.  Unfortunately,
that plan was vetoed by SWMBO.  So I invested in a wrist-rocket type
slingshot and package of 40 cal. paintballs.  Didn't work as well as I had
hoped - they still come around.  But it feels really good to nail 'em.  And
they're really skittish now.  Oh, and I can tell the repeat offenders by the
bright markings!

	On a more practical note you can try to use either a repelant or barrier.
I believe Potomac Garden Center on Darnstown Road (301-948-8890)(NAJASCYYY)
carries several products that may help.  I've seen several local garden
centers that carry predator urine you spray near the scene of the crime.
You can chose mountain lion, fox, etc. (wouldn't want to cross the guy who
collects THAT product!).  Also, squirrels are reported to be repelled by
blood meal and I know Potomac Garden carries it.  Also, I've been told that
squirrels are sensative to capsaicin.  Maybe a big 'ol tub of cayenne pepper
from Costco sprinkled about would help.  Or a little Dave's Insanity Sauce
sprinkled on the soil (I have some if you need it).

	Finally, the most effective method in my experience is a barrier.  You
could use 1/2" hardware cloth burried an inch or so above the rhizomes (or
maybe a fine chicken wire).  I know some landscapers use that to keep rats
from munching on bulbs in urban areas.

	Good luck! Of course, if you want to borrow my sling shot . . . .

>On Sat, 15 Dec 2001, Paul Kensler <pkensler at home.com> inquired about
squirrels and hop gardening

> I have some really obnoxious squirrels digging up my hop beds - they are
> completely exposing the rhizomes.  I cover them back up, and they dig them
> back up.  Also the occasional constitutional visit from the neighbor's
cat,
> but that is more insult than injury.  Has anyone experienced the same
> problem and found a way to beat the little buggers or at least dissuade
them
> from tearing up the hop garden?

> I've thought about a grid of electrified mesh topped with razor wire and
> patrolled by Dobermans surrounding each hop hill, but there has to be an
> easier way...

Chip Stewart
Also Gaithersburg, MD
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:28:30 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Samiclaus

- ------------------------------
Rod Prather asked about 2000 Samiclaus
 
>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:45:31 -0500
>From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
>Subject: Samiclaus
 
>Word was that Samiclaus was produced in 2000 for the 2001 season.   I haven't
>been reading the HBD lately.   Has anyone tried the new batch?  Is it
>available?   Does anyplace have it in Indiana?  Indianapolis?  
 
It is available. I tried it with a small group on Friday and we compared it
to the 1996.  It is great... I think improved.  I think it should also improve
with aging.  

The 2000 is made by the castle brewery Eggenberg - Austria.  That is the
maker of EKU 28.  The old stuff was made in Switzerland.

My friend found it in Minneapolis.  No idea if Rod can find in Indiana.

 - Leo Vitt
Rochester, MN





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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:53:05 -0600
From: "Hodges, Walt" <whodges at teamists.com>
Subject: Newbe question about brewing quantity

Am preparing to make my first brew.  Have read many tips and tricks, and
thoroughly understand the need for cleanliness and sanitation.

Am following various threads of the digest but can't find an answer to
my question.  Because I only have access to 5 gallon plastic carboy
(repurposed "Crystal Clear" plastic 5 gallon jug) I believe that my wort
quantity has to be less than 5 gallons. Correct?  How do I convert a
recipe stated for 5 gallons into a 4 gallon recipe?  The 4 gallon
quantity is my attempt to leave a "good head room" in  the fermenter.
How much headroom is "good"?

Your response is greatly appreciated

Thanks,
Brewing from Ankeny IA  (502.8, 268.8) 
Walt Hodges 
Network Engineer 
ISTS 
Work: (515) 334-4327 
Cell: (515) 577-2366 
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I
prefer to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my
own." Otto von Bismarck - Architect of the German Empire. Credited with
the 1871 unification of Germany. 





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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:27:45 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Bottle Testing with baking soda

Hmm.  Let's assume that 1/4tsp of NaHCO3 = 1.25 grams, based on the
probably faulty assumption that 1tsp masses 5 g.

The mole weight of NaHCO3 is 23 + 1 + 12 + 3*16 = 84
Each molecule of NaHCO3 produces one molecule of CO2, with a mole
weight of 44.  
So 44/84 of the baking soda is released as CO2.
This is .65 grams.
1 gram of CO2 is about 1/2 liter.
So you'll get about about 1/3 liter of CO2 from your reaction.

Not really enough to get worried about, is it?

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, pretty darn close to [0,0]



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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:50:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: Hop gardening help needed

> I have some really obnoxious squirrels digging up my hop beds - they are
> completely exposing the rhizomes.  I cover them back up, and they dig them
> back up. 

I haven't tried growing hops (yet), but here in the San Francisco bay area, 
I've had the same problem with squirrels digging up freshly planted items. My 
theory is they're attracted to the smell of fresh potting soil more than the 
plants, since the plants remain unharmed, just dug up. I cover the fresh soil 
with "native" soil to mask it a bit, with mixed results. Once plants are there 
for a month or so, the squirrels lose interest.
Maybe try tacking down some landscaping fabric, or a mesh, over the rhizomes?

- --rama



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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:54:16 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: second running 

Well, your theoretical maximum extraction (34 pt-gal/lb) from 22lbs of
grain is about 748 "point-gallons" of gravity.  Your second runnings
of 10 gallons  at  1.038 would take 380 "point-gallons" of sugar, leaving
368 "point-gallons" for your imperial stout.  In 5 gallons, this gives
you an OG of 1.073.  In practice, of course, you won't get the
theoretical maximum, and your second beer will be pretty weak.

You don't say how big you want your Imperial stout to be.  If you're
aiming for 1.090, say, then you might want to collect 6 gallons of 1st
runnings at 1.075.  In my system, you'd get this OG from the first
runnings if you use about 1.6 quarts of water per pound of grain, and
you'll get about 1.1 quarts of wort per pound of grain upon fully
draining the mash.  This works out to just over 6 gallons of wort!

In the process you would have removed 75pt * 6gal = 450 pt-gal of
sugar from the mash.  If your normal sparge extraction is 30
pt-gal/lb, you've got (22 * 30 - 450) = 210 pt-gal left.  To get a
gravity of 1.038, you'd want to end up with 210/38 = 5.5 gallons of
wort after the boil.  

So, I think you'd do better to aim for 5 gallons of imp stout and 5
gallons of "plain" stout.  Mix your mash with 1.5 quarts of water per
pound of grain (33 quarts or 8.25 gallons) and drain the mash dry.
Then add more water and sparge as normal to 6 - 6.5 gallons for your
second beer.

=Spencer


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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:26:38 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Water Softener

Hi,
  I finally realized my whole-house water softener that so wonderfully
removes cholrine by my brewing liquor uses salt in the process, so it has a
high level of sodium.  I'm sure this is affecting my beer in some way, but
not quite sure how.  Any one have an idea?  Is there something I could do to
get around it other than buying bottled/distilled water?
Thanks,
Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA


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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:13:55 -0600
From: "Hodges, Walt" <whodges at teamists.com>
Subject: Request for recommendations of Brewpubs in the Mesa AZ (Phoenix) area

Emergency trip to Mesa has just appeared on my calendar.  Any decent (or
Great) brewpubs in the Mesa area?  If not Mesa, how about the Phoenix
area?

Thanks, 
Reading and brewing from Ankeny IA (502.8, 268.8)
Walt Hodges 
Network Engineer 
ISTS 
Work: (515) 334-4327 
Cell: (515) 577-2366 
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I
prefer to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my
own." Otto von Bismarck - Architect of the German Empire. Credited with
the 1871 unification of Germany. 





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