---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Hops & yeast ("Eric Stiers")
  obnoxious squirrles ("Raymond Conn")
  RE: Schlenkerla Rauchbier (smoked beer) ("Gregor Zellmann")
  squirrels (Ray Kruse)
  Re: Newbe question about brewing quantity (Steven S)
  Rauchbier / Samiclaus / Unibroue special beer (David Harsh)
  Re: Real Guinness is not paltry ("Chad Gould")
  Pesky squirrels (Rolf Karlsson)
  Club Yeast Banks ("Vernon, Mark")
  re: Garden critters ("Paul Kensler")
  re: Smoke 'em ("Paul Kensler")
  Guinness Imported (from Canada) ("H. Dowda")
  Re: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em (Bill Tobler)
  RE: Water Softener ("Dennis Lewis")
  Wyeast XL cell counts (Paddock Wood Customer Service)
  Yeast temps (Jeff)
  re: Champagne Yeast/tobacco ("Steve Alexander")
  Re: Water Softener (Jeff Renner)
  British Ale Character ("Drew Avis")
  re: h2o2 aeration (Joe Gibbens)
  BTF Iodophor vs. DiverseyLever Accord II (Al Beers)


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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:44:36 -0600
From: "Eric Stiers" <ewstiers at chorus.net>
Subject: Hops & yeast

Hi all-

I recently signed on to hbd, and have greatly enjoyed reading all of your
interesting posts. Keep up the good work!

Anyway, on to the question: I recently started two batches of beer; a nice
dark Irish stout and a masochistically hoppy IPA. Both were 5 gallon batches
and were pitched and first-staged at about the same temperature, and with
the same amount of yeast (but different strains, of course). The stout went
into heavy krausen nearly overnight, but the IPA took a few days and even
then just slowly bubbled along. The OG readings at the start were 1.045 for
the stout, 1.054 for the IPA, so I would have guessed that the IPA would
have at least matched, if not outdone the stout in CO2 production. A friend
and I are theorizing that the high acid level from the hops might be slowing
the IPA yeast, however we have not been able to confirm that this is a real
phenomenon in any of our collective reading materials. Have any of you folks
had any experience with slower fermentation in highly-hopped brews? Or would
this be expected just based on the different strains of yeast used and other
differing conditions and chemistry between the two runs? All info is
appreciated.

Eric Stiers
Madison WI



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:38:10 -0800
From: "Raymond Conn" <dawgpatch2 at centurytel.net>
Subject: obnoxious squirrles

"Paul Kensler" WRITES:  I have some really obnoxious squirrels digging up my
hop beds...Has anyone experienced the same problem and found a way to beat
the little buggers or at least dissuade them from tearing up the hop garden?

As a (former) fox and coyote trapper one of the best and easyest ways to
attract an animal was with visualization,meaning fox and coyote know where
diner lives,in holes some times dug into the earth, so when you leave the
dirt scratched up and piled into what looks like a freshly dug burrow, it's
an invite to lunch-same for Mr.. squirrel(so that's where those nuts are
buried!-I'll just take a peek).
when trans planting or weeding, the site of disturbed earth is just too much
to over look. try camouflaging with mulch(bark ,straw,clippings) or even
land scaping stone and/or rock  ,which would make it tough for their
digging,while on the subject of making it tough try chicken wire laid flat.
 As an advocate on leash laws for cats I'll leave this one alone so as not
to offend the cat loving readers in the collective.
 hope I helped

Ray,bringing homebrew to Hale




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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:15:07 +0100
From: "Gregor Zellmann" <gregor at blinx.de>
Subject: RE: Schlenkerla Rauchbier (smoked beer)

Rick Gordon wrote about *really* smoked beer and names Schlenkerla from
Bamberg:

> If you've ever had the pleasure of drinking an original "Rauchbier"
(smoked
> beer) from The Schlenkerla restaurant/brewery in Bamberg, Germany (a
couple
> of blocks from the old Rathaus in the middle of the river) you will have
come
> as close to cigar-in-your-beer heaven as you would ever hope to.

I was born in this beautiful city and grew up with the taste of Schlenkerla
Rauchbier. It is pretty extreme. Actually a newbie starts enjoying this beer
not before the second pint.;-)

> Skip the
> tobacco in the mash and smoke the grains (or buy smoked barley from
> Weyermann's).  Substitute as much as you dare into your favorite Marzen
> recipe and go for it. I normally use 2-3 lbs. per 5 gal. but let your
palette
> rule.

If you want to come close to the original use enough chocolate malt to get
the colour to 52-55 EBC and the rest of your grain bill should be pure,
Weyermann smoked malt. I know the brewmaster and that's what he does. I have
50 litres lagering in the basement right now.

A side note: I was told by this brewmaster, that all beers from malted
barley (with no exception) up to the beginning of the industrial revolution
were smoked beers, as all malt was kilned (is this the right word for the
drying and roasting process?) on open fires up to that point. Makes sense to
me.

happy holidays to all of you!

Gregor Zellmann
Berlin, Germany
[4247.6, 43.4] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:35:57 -0500
From: Ray Kruse <rkruse at bigfoot.com>
Subject: squirrels

I had a problem with squirrels a couple of years ago, in a very urban
area, and solved it with my "Squirrel Relocation Program".

I went to the local hardware store, bought a Hav-A-Hart (tm) trap big
enough to catch a cat (another story there that might be told after I
leave the area), and baited the trap with peanut butter.

Every squirrel caught was relocated from my neighborhood to my work
neighborhood.  Got over a dozen of them (in about three weeks) before
the herd got thinned enough that they left me alone.

HTH

Ray Kruse
Glen Burnie, PRMd
rkruse at bigfoot.com
- -- 
"It must be obvious that liberty necessarily means freedom to choose
foolishly as well as wisely; freedom to choose evil as well as good;
freedom to suffer the rewards of good judgment, and freedom to suffer
the penalties of bad judgment. If this is not true, the word  ~FREEDOM~
has no meaning."


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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:37:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <stevensl at corp.earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Newbe question about brewing quantity


Well i would say it depends on what you are brewing. A good stout might
not really need much adjustment, a higher gravity might be just the thing!
My Crankcase Stout (which is perfect by the way!) ended up being a bit
higher than I had calculated. Are you doing extract?

I would highly suggest you try the Recipator
(http://www.hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator) to size your recipe.

In my experience i would probably fill that jug to about 4-4.5 gallons and
stick a large hose out of the top for blowoff. I've notice my brews have
gotten much "cleaner" tasting with the blowoff exiting my carboy. If its
good enough for Bass its good enough for me!






>Am preparing to make my first brew.  Have read many tips and tricks, and
>thoroughly understand the need for cleanliness and sanitation.

>Am following various threads of the digest but can't find an answer to
>my question.  Because I only have access to 5 gallon plastic carboy
>(repurposed "Crystal Clear" plastic 5 gallon jug) I believe that my wort
>quantity has to be less than 5 gallons. Correct?  How do I convert a
>recipe stated for 5 gallons into a 4 gallon recipe?  The 4 gallon
>quantity is my attempt to leave a "good head room" in  the fermenter.
>How much headroom is "good"?


 Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl at corp.earthlink.net ::: 403forbidden.net
			[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The Marines don't have that problem." -- President Ronald Reagan, 1985








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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:56:18 -0500
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Rauchbier / Samiclaus / Unibroue special beer

Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> talks about Schenkerla-
> Next, recipes?  As I read it, Schlenkerla Rauchbier is in the Marzen
> style.  How much of the recipe should be smoked?  All munich malt
> recipe?  Half munich, half pilsner?  Some crystal?  Buy up the last
> reserves of DWC aromatic and make a 100% aromatic malt rauchbier?  Wouldn't
> that be an interesting treat?

Schenkerla USED to be a great smoke beer, but that was 5 years ago or so
when it was made from all rauchmalt (maybe 1% chocolate for color).  In
recent years, it has wimped out to a 30-40% smoked malt beer and just
isn't as interesting.  My opinions, of course, but I just find the beer
boring anymore.  

I've made the 99% rauch and 1% chocolate version and it is a great beer.
 Of course, I'm talking about the commercial, beechwood smoked malts,
not home-smoked malts that are generally MUCH stronger and would
probably be undrinkable at that level.  

- ------------------------------
LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> mentions Samiclaus
I had the pleasure of comparing 96, 97, and 2000 Friday night in a side
by side tasting (are homebrew club Christmas parties great, or what?). 
The 96 was by far the most pleasant - nice malt profile with some
creaminess in the mouthfeel.  The 97 was just plain boring - it wasn't
bad, but paled by comparison to the other two years.  The 2000 was very
good, but will probably improve over the years as the 96 has.  

I bought the 2000 last year at the Party Source in Northern Kentucky
(which means Cincinnati).  Of course, that's probably where I got the 96
and 97 too, but that would have been a few years ago at this point. 
Haven't seen the 2001 yet, but that gives me an idea of what I should do
today.  

- -----------------------------
While we're on the topic of rare beers, I saw an ad in All About Beer
for a tenth anniversary beer from Unibroue.  Has anyone seen it, had it,
etc?  Comments on it?

Dave Harsh						Bloatarian Brewing League
Cincinnati, OH



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:04:35 -0500
From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Real Guinness is not paltry

> Don't be to quick to hammer Guinness.  Memory
> serves me right, what is served in Ireland is
> closer to 2.5% (any UKHBD folks out there)- ever
> wonder how the lads drink all day and survive?
> At 2.5%, you drown long before getting drunk.

ABV content is not a way I judge beers -- to compare: Boddingtons is around
3.5% ABV, and Budweiser's around 5% ABV; I of course will take the
Boddingtons. :)

> Don't know what Yanks do the it, but they sure
> manage to ruin it (maybe AB has inserted agents
> at the brewery?).  I won't drink Guinness in
> America any more - it is just not a good drink
> here - please fill up my Coke glass.

Guinness is contract brewed in several regional plants, maybe? I know that
various regions have different styles of Guinness. For instance, in Hong
Kong / China, the Guinness there was 7.5%! It was also quite a bit "saltier"
in taste, and a bit more on the bitter side if I remember right.

The "Guinness draught" over here may not approach Ireland's version, but
it's quite nice IMHO, you just have to find the right place that serves
it... America has many places that put up Guinness and Bass taps but still
don't know how to perform maitenance on beer lines.

Also, the American Guinness bottle is very very different from either the
can or the tap -- it's closer to the export version I had in Asia, but not
quite as salty and not quite as alcoholic. I'm not a big fan of the bottle
version personally.

(On the homebrew end: Last weekend I made my first "partial mash" style
beer, after a comedy of various errors its fermenting quite nicely. We'll
see how it turns out!)




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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:19:07 -0500
From: Rolf Karlsson <bz4n8v at naeng.gm.com>
Subject: Pesky squirrels

I've never seen a squirrel run as fast as when I let my Yorkshire
Terriers out into the yard. At first I figured the dogs were all bark
(they're about 8 pounds each) but their sporting bloodlines have
apparently held true; they surprised me by taking down an unfortunate
rabbit that wandered into our yard last month. Of course, the decision
to get any kind of terrier is probably a bigger issue in itself than
keeping squirrels out of your hops, but if you were thinking about
getting a dog anyway, now you have anecdotal evidence that it will
work (given the right breed). I can also verify second-hand that a
blow-gun will thin the population significantly...

Rolf Karlsson
[44.2 miles, 9.3] Rennerian
- -- 
"Well-weathered leather, hot metal and oil, the scented country air
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape, every nerve aware!"
        -Rush, "Red Barchetta"


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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:30:08 -0600
From: "Vernon, Mark" <mark.vernon at pioneer.com>
Subject: Club Yeast Banks

I have a question for those of you in Brew Clubs. Does your club offer a
club Yeast Bank? If they do how is it run? Our club was offering a Yeast
Bank - we have several members into yeast ranching and they were gracious
enough offer it to the club. For a small donation ($2) to the club, to cover
culturing costs, a member could request a strain of yeast, we would whip up
a small 10ml starter and the member would then step that up to whatever
level they felt they needed to pitch. 
What are the groups opinions as to the legal/ethical aspects of this type of
yeast bank? 
The reason I ask is that our local homebrew shop owner heard about this (we
did not try and hid it), called one of the big yeast suppliers and had them
send a letter threatening us with legal action, if we did not "Cease and
Desist" selling "their" yeast. They also threatened to stop selling their
yeast to him (the homebrew shop) because, supposedly, we purchased our
source yeast from him (some we did, some we did not).
So what is the opinion of the group? Are these types of yeast
exchanges/banks legal? Ethical? Can I give a buddy the yeast cake from the
batch I just brewed or am I 'stealing' the yeast from the supplier? 

Let the debate begin!!!!!!

Mark Vernon, MCSE, MCT
Sr. Network Engineer
Global Infrastructure
Pioneer, A DuPont Company
EMail:Mark.Vernon at Pioneer.com

The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing
it.
- -- Chinese proverb




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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:55:09 -0500
From: "Paul Kensler" <pkensler at home.com>
Subject: re: Garden critters

Thanks to everyone that replied about my garden squirrel problem, both on
the HBD and in private.  I got lots of great suggestions, which when
combined will surely make for a dangerous environment for garden critters.

The most common suggestion was to use a .22 (or larger!) and to enjoy a nice
squirrel stew - which was also my first feeling but being entrenched in the
Washington DC-area suburbs and living in a dense townhouse neighborhood,
that probably isn't the best option (and certainly not SWMBO-friendly).
Stepping down to a neighborhood-friendly pellet gun wouldn't work well
either, because the hop plants are on the "long" side of our end-unit
townhouse, right next to the front door...  I can't get out the door and
bring the weapon to bear before they run away.  That option would also
involve a lot of standing at the front window with my weapon in hand,
staring maniacally out the window for hours...  or setting up a deer stand
(squirrel stand?) in the open space between buildings.  While that does
appeal to a part of me, it isn't the kind of behavior my wife wants to
encourage.

So that leaves me with some nasty concoction to include some or all of the
following:  moth balls, hot peppers (I finally found a use for Dave's
Insanity Sauce), blood meal, predator urine (how do they collect that?), and
mouse traps.  Many folks also suggested various forms of barriers, which
I'll probably resort to when the spicy-mothball-bloody-pee-dead squirrel
odor outside my front door becomes unbearable.


Thanks again,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:54:59 -0500
From: "Paul Kensler" <pkensler at home.com>
Subject: re: Smoke 'em

I recently made a rauchbier based on one of the recipes in Ray Daniels'
excellent book, "Smoked Beers".  The beer turned out fantastic - which is to
say I'm no expert on rauchbiers, but I love Schlenkerla's beers and I am
very happy with the way my homebrewed version came out.  Various friends'
reactions have ranged from loving it to scraping their tongues with a
butter-knife after tasting it (I figure if a good smoked beer doesn't make
at least one person gag then I haven't used enough rauch malt).

Ray's book also has a lot of tips on self-smoking your malt, which I haven't
tried and probably won't (its just too easy to get some Weyermann
rauchmalt).

My 5g recipe was:
7.5# Weyermann light munich
5#  Weyermann rauch malt
2 oz. Weyermann Carafa I

 .75 oz. 12.0% Nugget - 60 min
 .25 oz. 3.3% Tettnanger - 2 min

German ale yeast

Irish moss

Single infusion mash at 155F, 60 minute boil.  OG 1.058 / FG 1.015.  Kegged
and force-carbonated.

It's a medium-dark amber color, very clear, with a slightly tan / ivory
head.  It has a moderately smoky aroma, and a very noticeable smoky flavor
that blends with the malt flavor and residual sweetness nicely.  Keep in
mind that when I say "moderate" and "noticeable", I'm already a fan of the
style and will have no problem finishing off a 5g keg of the stuff - but I
still think it is definitely not an over-the-top smokiness that dominates
all other flavors.  Bitterness is significant, which is a pleasant balance
to the malt sweetness and smoky flavor - I think with the moderately high OG
and FG on this batch, combined with the rich munich and smoke flavors, a
less bitter beer would be cloying.  It might be fun to try a drier, lower-OG
version too...


Let us know how the experiment turns out, getting the sausage factory to
smoke some malt for you!


Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD




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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:56:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Guinness Imported (from Canada)

Do not drink a lot of commercial stout.  Bought some
of the bottled pub draft in bottles and on close
inspection found that it was being made in Canada ala
Fosters etc, so it could still say imported.  Before
finding out the location of the brewery, I found the
beer unpleasant.  Is the kegged draft in the US made
in Canada also?



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:54:06 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <WCTobler at brazoria.net>
Subject: Re: Smoke 'em if ya got 'em

Nathan,
   Zymugry beat you to it.  January/February, 2001 issue, there is an
article by Randy Mosher  called "Roast, Toast, Season and Spice."
The article covers from Roasting your own grains in the
Kitchen to Smoking them on you grill.  Check it out.  Cheers

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian 



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:33:27 -0500
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at dblewis.com>
Subject: RE: Water Softener

Nils Hedglin writes,
>   I finally realized my whole-house water softener that so wonderfully
> removes cholrine by my brewing liquor uses salt in the process, so it has a
> high level of sodium.  I'm sure this is affecting my beer in some way, but
> not quite sure how.  Any one have an idea?  Is there something I could do to
> get around it other than buying bottled/distilled water?

Check out http://www.mortonsalt.com/soft/sofdsoft.htm for how a water softener
works. Basically, it exchanges all your Calcium and Magnesium for Sodium.
Strange, I thought that hardness was defined by the sulfate (permanent) and
carbonate (temporary) content of the water....

Anyway, when our house had one, there was a bypass valve on it for servicing.
On brew day, I would set the valve to bypass the softener, give all the
equip a good spraydown which clears out the softened water from the lines.
Then I fill my sparge tank and kettle for mashing (thru a carbon filter of
course). I turn the softener back on after that.

Even very hard water will make good beer. If you've been leaving the softener
on, your water will be lacking in Ca and Mg that you'll have to add back
in via gyspum, CaCl2, Epsom, etc., and you'll end up with excessive sulfate
and carbonates as well as sodium (excessive sodium gives a metallic twang to 
the beer or so I hear). 

There have been a few times that I forgot to bypass the softener and the 
resulting beer comes out kind of dull. (Or at least I blamed it on that!) I 
suspect that I wasn't getting the right pH and other mash conversions due
to lack of Calcium.

Dennis Lewis

[175.3mi, 113.3] Apparent Rennerian (aka Warren, Ohio)
In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strength.
In water there is bacteria. --German Proverb  


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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:32:27 -0600
From: Paddock Wood Customer Service <experts at paddockwood.com>
Subject: Wyeast XL cell counts

Hi folks,

A quick note since there may be some confusion  regarding cell counts in
liquid yeast cultures.

Wyeasts XL 175ml pack contains 45-60 billion cells when fully activated. No
other liquid yeast pack has a higher cell count, including 'ready-to-pitch'
cultures.  The 'smack-pack' also provides visual proof of an active culture
before pitching, which is important for those buying yeasts by mail, or if
the viability of the yeast is in question due to storage or age. I am
affiliated as a retailer of Wyeast, but I guarantee the beer kits we sell,
so if a batch is off, or not what the customer was expecting, I replace it.
Wyeast XL packs ensure that at least a decent population of uncontaminated
yeast is pitched, my customers are satisfied, and I don't go broke replacing
contaminated batches.

A recent post placed the commercial pitching rate at 200 billion yeast cells
into a typical 5 gallon batch, but noted that the homebrew pitching rate
described by Ray Daniels is 10 fold less, but that would be a bare minimum
rate.  So at bare minimum, 20 billion cells in a 5 gallon batch will work.
While it will not provide commercial pitching rates without a starter, an
active Wyeast XL pack provides over DOUBLE the homebrew pitch rate, and up
to TRIPLE  the homebrew pitch rate even without a starter.

Alan Meeker notes: "  There are MANY potential ills attributable to
underpitching. I know my beers improved DRAMATICALLY once I started pitching
decent amounts of yeast."

Absolutely.  And with good sanitary practice, a starter is an excellent way
to grow a decent amount of yeast. But for convenience and guaranteed
uncontaminated cultures, an XL pack is hard to beat. Good populations can be
obtained by stepping up a smaller population in a starter,  but for those
using extracts, starters are often no more cost effective than buying the XL
pack, and run a considerably higher risk of infection.  The XL packs provide
an easy way for brewers at any level of experience to grow an acceptable
population of cells.

For strong ales, a good starter will be about 2 gallons. FWIW, I prefer to
simply brew a quick lower gravity ale with an XL pack and use the slurry as
the starter for the strong ale. It's about the same amount of work, but I
get another 5 gallons of beer out of it, and a good amount of yeast (with
due attention to the caveats noted by Alan).

I hope this is useful,

Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiis sugant."

Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK, Canada
experts at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:47:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff <duckinchicago at yahoo.com>
Subject: Yeast temps

I'm sure this has been covered in some form before,
but I just was wondering about how ale yeast would
react to a lower than normal fermentation temp.  In my
case, I have a very high gravity barleywine, that I
pitched a large starter into, that has been fermenting
very happily for the last 6 days, but I'm going away
for 4 days over the holidays and will probably turn my
thermostat in the house down to around 60 or less to
conserve energy. Should I worry about a stuck
fermentation if the temperature drops down to 55-60 F?
 I repitched the White Labs British Ale from a
previous batch, and made a 1000 ml starter on top of
it. I'm thinking it'll be fine, especially if its only
a few days, but I dont' want to deal with a stuck
fermentation of a 1.115 OG Barleywine.

Thanks,
Jeff in Chicagoland 



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:48:16 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Champagne Yeast/tobacco

Colby Fry asks ...

>I was wondering if anyone has had any luck with champagne yeast

I have used it on some fermentation tests.  It's an excellent attenuator and
the flavor is fairly neutral with more acidity than a brewing yeast.   I
would seriously consider champagne yeast for a blanche' beer style.  For a
triple I'd use another yeast for early fermentation and a late champagne
yeast pitching for the final attenuation - otherwise the acidity will (I
think) throw you out of style.

=================
Brett  Hetherington writes about the only good thing I've read on tobacco
beer ....

>Funny thing, I jones for the gum more than I do for a cigarette!
>Been clean since 4/1/01 though, and I feel good!

I'm 19 years ahead of you Brett - congrats.  I always enjoyed smoking - but
smoking prevented me from enjoying other things like breathing and tasting
or smelling food.  Tobacco beer sounds pretty stupid to me - it's poisonous,
carcinogenic, addictive, and seriously damages your sense of taste.  If you
want to cr*p up a beer then start with Budweiser and save and the good beer
from someone who can still taste the difference.  Same goes for the nitwits
who sip fine wine and whisky across tongues made insensate by tobacco.  Yes
you can taste the big flavors, but the subtlety is all lost.

 -S




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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:20:02 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Water Softener

Nils Hedglin <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com> writes from Sacramento, CA:

>   I finally realized my whole-house water softener that so wonderfully
>removes cholrine by my brewing liquor uses salt in the process, so it has a
>high level of sodium.  I'm sure this is affecting my beer in some way, but
>not quite sure how.  Any one have an idea?  Is there something I could do to
>get around it other than buying bottled/distilled water?

Your softener doesn't remove chlorine as part of its design, I 
believe, just as part of the standing process (I may be wrong).  What 
it does do if it is the typical resin bead ion exchange softener is 
remove the hardness (calcium and magnesium and as a byproduct, iron) 
by exchanging two ions of sodium for every calcium or magnesium ion. 
Now magnesium we can do without, but calcium ions are important for 
mashing (I'm assuming you are mashing), and sodium can be a problem 
at high levels.

I suggest you get an analysis of your untreated water from the water 
department and decide if it will do as is (with the chlorine removed) 
for brewing.  If you need help, post the analysis here, and you'll 
get some help.  Basically, you ought to have at least 50 ppm calcium, 
and we can go on from there.

The bottom line is don't use the softened water for brewing.  There 
are other ways of removing chlorine that are better (letting it 
stand, boiling, or, if it is in the form of chloramines, adding 
metabisulfate tablets).

Here's to better beer!

Jeff

(an advance warning to my correspondents - my ISP, Comcast, which has 
been contracting with Mediaone for service, is cutting mediaone loose 
on 12/27 and on 12/29, my new address (as yet undetermined) will be 
the only one that works.  In other words, there will be no forwarding 
of the old address.  And I, like much of Ann Arbor, will be on 
vacation during this period.  It should be a real SNAFU, and I don't 
mean "fouled up"!
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:35:48 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: British Ale Character

Brewers: tonight for the first time, after having heard the name many times
in this forum, I tried Traquair House Ale.  Now this is certainly a fine
beer.  Smooth, complex, intense flavours of fruit and malt with a lingering
sensation of sweetness.  There is a flavour, or combination of flavours, in
this beer that I can't put my finger on, but which I have found in two other
British ales: Sam Smith's Taddy Porter and Harvey's Stout.  Now, several
years ago I posted to the HBD for help in cloning the Taddy Porter, and got
a few good leads, but I've never been able to get close to this beer.  It
must be a combination of yeast strain, fermentation regime, and ingredients.
I'm at a bit of a loss, as each of these three breweries employs older
techniques for brewing, but the three beers vary in region, strength, and
style.  First, anyone know what I'm tasting in these beers?  Is it a
combination of British dark and crystal malts and diacetyl?  What about a
Wyeast strain and fermentation regime that could produce this effect?  I've
tried 1028 , 1098 and 1968 at various temperatures w/o success.

Cheers, and good beers,
Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca


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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:22:56 -0600
From: Joe Gibbens <jgibbens6 at attbi.com>
Subject: re: h2o2 aeration

Question:

In Dr. Pivo's recent hydrogen peroxide experiment, is it possible that 
the "stalled" fermentation  could be the yeast briefly returning to an 
aerobic cycle from the oxygen addition before resuming anerobic activity?

"The peroxided protion "stalled" after 24 hours compared to its non 
treated twins, but after 48 hours seemed to have kicked back in to match 
them."

Joe



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:09:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Al Beers <beersal at yahoo.com>
Subject: BTF Iodophor vs. DiverseyLever Accord II

Hi y'all, I recently came into a couple gallons of a
sanitizer from DiverseyLever called Accord II. It
looks and appears to be a clone of BTF Iodophor.  A
question for the scientific experts out there: Can the
Accord II be used as Iodophor? Here are the ingredient
lists: Accord II: Iodine (from
Alkyl(C12-C15)poly(oxypropelene)poly(oxyethylene)and
Octylphenoxypolyethoxy-ethanol-iodine complexes)
1.75%, and Phosphoric acid  18.75%  and INERT
INGREDIENTS  79.50%. It is used primarily as a food
service sanitizer. 
The BTF Iodophor reads: Butoxy polypropoxy polyethoxy
ethanol-iodine complex (providing 1.6% titratable
iodine) 12.54%,  INERT INGREDIENTS 87.46%  
As always, thank you all very much, Al 

=====
Brewing in Mt. Clemens, MI
[48.4, 21] Apparent Rennerian



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