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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: whirly gigs ("margie ludwig")
  BT and all that jazz (ensmingr)
  NPT Nuts ("Kent Fletcher")
  Pale Ale experiment ("Jens Maudal")
  American Brown Ale Recipe request ("Grant")
  green beer bottles ("Gregor Zellmann")
  Puerto Rico (leavitdg)
  RE: Tired of All-Grain! ("Steven Parfitt")
  Re: Sparge Arms ("Joel Plutchak")
  Re: Belgian Beer styles (jal)
  Re: CAP Report (Jeff Renner)
  Whirlygigs...Megaswill Clone for the Loser...80 char limits ("George, Marshall E.")
  New Orleans Brew Scene (Demonick)
  light damage & brown bottles ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: To shake or not to shake, that is the question ("Larry Bristol")
  Re: He who falls first must brew a Bud Light ("Larry Bristol")
  Re: CAP Report / RIMs heater question ("Drew Avis")
  Re: Whirlygigs (Yerry Felix)
  Oxyclean as a sanitizer? ("Dave Darity")
  Ringwood yeast correction; RauchCAP comment (Daniel Chisholm)
  Sparge Arms ("Dan Listermann")
  more water chemistry questions (Himsbrew)
  Re: New Orleans Brew Scene (Kelly Grigg)
  Homebrewed Aeroplains;<) ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Re: Carboys (Bill Wible)
  Propane Burner Question & New Law ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  RE: Rotating Sparge Arm Whirlygigs (Ronald La Borde)
  Extract Brews, kits? (Bill Wible)


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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:28:32 -0800
From: "margie ludwig" <mwludwig at tqci.net>
Subject: re: whirly gigs

I can think of one reason to use a whirly gig. But first, if you like to
have a layer of sparge water sitting on top of your mash, the whirly gig
probably won't do much good. In that case, if there is any tendency for
some areas of your mash to allow channeling, a disproportionate amount
of your sparge water may find its way over to that part of your mash and
channel through the grain bed, despite the whirly gig. But if you
maintain the water line of your mash to around the top of the grain bed
(so the grains can actually impede the horizontal flow of the sparge
water to near the same extent as the vertical flow) and deposit the
water all over the top of it with a whirly gig or some other
contraption, then the tendency of any portion of your mash to allow the
water to channel through will be reduced. I don't use a rotating sparge
arm, but use a rigid manifold to distribute the water, with that same
intent. But I have to admit that I also end up with inches of water over
top of the grain bed and don't worry enough about it to get the full
benefit of the manifold. I even try to keep the manifold submerged into
the layer of sparge water for no real good reason that I know of. So
IMO, if you can control the water level well enough to keep it close to
the top of the grain bed, you're making best use of the rotating sparge
arm and maybe reducing the possibility of channeling of the sparge water
through the grain bed and increasing your yield of the good stuff.
Otherwise, still a neat brewing gizmo, especially if YOU LIKE IT. 

FYI. My old ISP went under and so did my Flat Iron Brewery web page
along with it. I've got a new webpage near completion but will be a few
months before I upload it to the new ISP. Oh yeah, SHMS II is in work. 

Dave Ludwig 
Flat Iron Brewery (being renovated)
SO MD



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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:39:16 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: BT and all that jazz

I really don't understand why so many of you are defending Steve
Mallory, a failed business man who ripped lots of people, me
included.

I responded to an advertisement in BT and renewed my subscription
for 2 years. A month later, they were belly up. Undoubtedly,
Mallory knew of the poor financials of BT and of its imminent
demise but kept this a secret and sought the money of new
subscribers anyway. Sounds a bit like the big guys at Enron, who
promoted the company when they knew of its imminent collapse.
Mallory, like the big guys at Enron, went home with his pockets
full.

BTW, anyone who wants to throw some money at businesses that will
fail, please let me know. I'm always in need of some extra cash
and shouldn't have too much trouble starting a business that will
fail.

Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:49:11 -0800
From: "Kent Fletcher" <kfletcher at socal.rr.com>
Subject: NPT Nuts

A couple of people mentioned difficulty locating 1/2" NPT nuts for making up
bulkhead fittings.  Any well-stocked plumbing supply should stock these in
brass.  Reason being that they are used on nearly every conventional faucet
set.  The portion of the typical 4" centerset (like a lavatory or bar sink
faucet) that sticks down through the countertop are threaded 1/2" NPT, and
these same nuts are what hold the faucet in place.
Kent



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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:51:26 +0100
From: "Jens Maudal" <jens.maudal at c2i.net>
Subject: Pale Ale experiment


 The Norwegian Homebrewers Association (Norbrygg) was inspired
 by a similar experiment done in the US a couple of years back.
 We set out to do what we called the "pale ale experiment", the point
 of this experiment was to find out if an identical recipe brewed by
 different homebrewers also would taste very different and if what we
 could call a "house taste" would shine through.

 18 homebrewers participated in the experiment and everybody used the
 same ingredients delivered from the same supplier, malt, hops and yeast.
 Everybody used of course the same recipe and the same mashing program.
 Everything possible was done to make the beers identical.
 The beers was judged by experienced brewers and judges and we were
 rather supprised to find that the taste and quality of the beers varied
such
 a lot.
 Some might have had mashing problems, this would explain the difference
 in body and possibly also some of the difference in bitterness. The brewers
that used RIMS reported stuch mashes due to a very fine crush (the malt was
delivered ready crushed). I would say that
 roughly 1/4 tasted very good and a 1/4 was bad, lacking in body, fullness,
 malt and hops (just about everything).
 What we did find rather odd though was the difference in hop aroma. After
 the kettle heat was turned off the recipe stated 25 gr (almost 2 oz) of
 finishing hops (E K Goldings), this should be plenty to give a nice hop
 aroma
 which it did in 3 - 4 of the beers, but just as many didn't have any aroma
 what so ever.

 How come? how is this possible, what does influence the hop aroma in
 such a negative way. Would different types/shapes/sizes of kettles have a
 great influence on the hop aroma. How long or short a time is the ideel for
 leaving the hops in the hot wort before cooling.
 Have anybody knowledge or any experiance with this problem?

 Regards
 Jens

 Jens P. Maudal jens.maudal at c2i.net
 Greetings from "BottomsUp Brewery"
 Drammen  -  Norway
 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 Visit my humble RIMS and homebrew page:
 http://home.c2i.net/bottomsup/index.htm

 Norbrygg bryggeside: http://www.norbrygg.com
 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:45:59 +1100
From: "Grant" <gstott at primus.com.au>
Subject: American Brown Ale Recipe request

G'day all,
All the recent talk of brown malt reminds me that I really need to start
thinking about brewing an American brown ale for the local comp in April.
This is not a style I am familiar with. There are no commercial examples
available that I am aware of in Australia.

If someone would care to e-mail me a proven, true to style all- grain recipe
I would appreciate it.

>From what I have read of the style so far I'm guessing that the grain bill
should consist of Pale ale, crystal & chocolate malts. I would like to
incorporate a little, say 100gm of Hugh Baird brown malt if possible as I
have 1kg that I bought before I realised that there are not to many uses for
it.

I can see Jeff Renners brown malt stout recipe coming in handy.

Thanks in advance.

Grant  Stott                                    mailto:gstott at primus.com.au

[9906, 260] AR (statute miles) or [15942.2, 260] AR [Km]







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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:09:28 +0100
From: "Gregor Zellmann" <gregor at blinx.de>
Subject: green beer bottles

Hi from Berlin again,

Again regarding the postings on green beer bottles:

After reading about green bottles in today's hbd again, I just remember that
I have a bunch of very beautiful "antique" 1 litre beer bottles, my great
grandfather used to store self distilled (?) liquor in. They are 70 or 80
years old, they have swingtops and they are green. So it looks like the
german brewers did use green bottles in the old days.
But this is a completely different green. It is actually a dark green grey.
Definitely darker than the average brown beer bottle. I asked my 89 years
old grandma too and she told me that there were no brown bottles until the
50s. I guess the glass manufacturers in those days collected all the glass
bottles they could get hold of and remelted it to make new bottles. The
bottles I have, are much thicker and heavier than the modern ones, but there
are plenty of tiny air bubbles and sort of dust in the glass.
So it looks like that there was a tradition in Germany to store beer in dark
green bottles. And I guess due to their very dark colour they protected the
beer against light fairly well.
Then in the 50s modern production methods brought up the brown bottle as
well as the now common light green bottle. For some reason (marketing?) some
breweries sticked to the green for their exported beers, while most of them
filled their beer into brown bottles for the national markets.

just my 2 cents.

Speaking about my antiques: Almost all of them are very dirty inside and I
didn't manage to clean them with anything. Not mecanically, not with long
soaks in bleach or detergent or dishwasher detergent. There is a brownish
film inside them and a few pieces of "melted" rubber (from the swing tops)
stick to the bottom of some. Don't know how the rubber came in there. Maybe
the "high octane" liquor stored in them for decades did this to the rubber?
Anyway. How do I clean them?  I would love to use them occasionally for my
brews.

cheers

Gregor Zellmann
Berlin, Germany
[4247.6, 43.4] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:51:55 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Puerto Rico

Esther;

  You are right...Medalla is king in PR.  You might want to try "India"
as well...made by the same folks..but a bit more flavor, I think.

But they do have ONE brew-
pub:  Borinquen Grill and Brewing Company
      4800 Isla Verde Avenue
      Isla Verde, PR, 00979
      
 phone: 787-268-1900

  Carter Archambeault is the VP of Restaurant Operations, and I met
him several times over several months,...a year ago. I stopped in
several times but never met the new brewer, who was learning.
Initially,as I suppose may be the case for most new brew-pubs,
they were having a challenging time getting the brews down...
ie some were ok,
some were good,..but nothing seemed "to style".  I have not been
there for a year or so, so I suppose that they've improved.

 I do recall that they had a pretty good "strong ale" that reminds
me a bit of Lake Placid's "Ubu Ale"...real strong, malty,..etc

 If you fly into San Juan, either rent a car, or take a cab, and
Isla Verde is just a few miles from the airport..on your way to
Old San Juan.

 I believe strongly in supporting new brew-pubs so I try to stop 
whenever I am "over there".

 the email, by the way, is borinquengrill at yahoo.com , or at least it
was a year or so ago. 

 By the way "Borinquen" is, as I recall, the name that the Indians
gave PR...before foriegners invaded...

 Have a nice trip!

 I hope to be there in May again.
 ..Darrell


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:15:38 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Tired of All-Grain!

Dan Ippolito ponders the work of AG:
 ....snip...
>Anyway here's my question -- I'm tired of all-grain brewing! Lately I >find 
>myself more and more limited on time.  I don't have the refined >palate of 
>a beer judge, but my beginning extract brews suited me just
>fine and I never got a single complaint from those I shared them with.
 ...

Hmm.. wish I could say that... my early beer tended to be naturally Soured..

>But I do have the equipment for all-grain, so I want to compromise
>with a partial mash.
Why compromise? Why not adjust your process?

Before I left for work this morning, I started a mash of Belgian Doubbel. 
When I get home, I will sparge and boil. It is a 5.5 gallon batch in a 
"Gott" cooler. Ground the grain last night. Put a kettle of water on to heat 
while I took a shower this morning. Dumped six qts at 165 and mixed it good, 
then added boiling water to adjust to 154 before I left for work. Simple 
single infusion will be ready to sparge tonight. I'll have to boil more 
water to add to bring the temp back up to as close as I can get to 170, draw 
off some and boil it and add it back to hit mash out temp, then add sparge 
water to finish.

Not much more work that partial mash, if any. I've even thought of doing a 
partial boil some time by adding too much grain to my mash, stop sparge with 
a high gravity, boil with hops, and add water to hit my OG just like a 
partial boil of extract. Cost would still be less than extract to boot.

>What I'm looking for are suggestions on how to get the best beer >possible 
>out of a partial mash...Where to get quality LME, DME, or >other 
>ingredients to make my brew similar in quality to all-grain.

Use Light DME, set your style with the grain in the partial mash and skip 
the LME. Find a HBC that has a good turn over, or mail order from a 
reputable soruce.

>Thanks to any who can help!

Hope I have. Happy brewing.

Is there such a thing as a "Brew-a-holic"? I think I'm becomming one.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:17:53 +0000
From: "Joel Plutchak" <plutchak at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sparge Arms

In HBD #3846 John Zeller wrote:
>Kirk Fleming (HBD #3844 and Zymie too in HBD #3842)) rant and rage about 
>the evils of using a Listermann sparge arm.  The sparger is designed to 
>gently and evenly distribute hot water over the surface of the grain bed 
>and it performs that task very well.  The design is simple with only one 
>moving part and required maintenance is near zero.

   While just watching the sparge arm work makes me smile
because it's such a nifty gadget, I wouldn't use one.  It
strikes me as a perfect way to have to worry overly much
about sparge temperature.  E.g., how many degrees are lost
between water vessel and grain bed?  Is it constant, or
does it depend on ambient air temperature?  Will it stop
spinning when I look away and channel holes in the grain
bed? (:-)
   Also, from experience I know the "danger" of disturbing
the grain bed (channeling/tunneling/whatever) is overstated
by some. I'd think one would have to work at it to get
significant disturbance, like pouring vigorously from a
few meters overhead., or using a high-pressure nozzle.

>I suspect there is some Listermann envy going on here.
   I respect Dan a lot-- I use some of his products, and
appreciate the positive time and energy he spends for
the hobby.  I've encountered some completely whacked out
and/or unscrupulous homebrew businesspeople, but Dan is
one of the good guys.  Even we who don't feel a need for a
rotating sparge arm can admit that.

Joel Plutchak
Not overly fascinated by gadgets in East-central Illinois



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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:21:11 -0600
From: jal at novia.net
Subject: Re: Belgian Beer styles 



David,

I'd avoid the Belgian Specialty category. It really is for replicating those 
fabulous Belgian commercials that don't fit into other categories, most notably 
Orval. From your decsription, I'd go with the Strong Dark. You may not have the 
Munich (is it necessarily part of the style?), but the Special B, the Aormatic, 
and the dark (I assume) candi put you right in there.

Jim Larsen
Omaha 
- --------------------------------------------------
Novia Web Mail Interface http://webmail.novia.net/



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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:16:41 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: CAP Report

I miswrote:

>Actually, you don't need more than a 1/2 pound of malt for three
>pounds of cornmeal, but the extra didn't hurt.

Musta had a brain cramp.  That should have been one pound of malt for 
three pounds of cornmeal.  Actually, 30% is what Wahl & Henius 
recommended 100 years ago http://hubris.engin.umich.edu/Wahl/

Also, as a side note on my report on brown malt stout, the HBD server 
snatched a line again when it posted

>I aim at a
>gravity (1.042 in this case) rather than volume and diluted near the
>8 gallons (to fill a 7.75 gallon Sankey after racking.)

What I *sent* to HBD (I just copied this from the message in my sent 
mail folder) was:

>I aim at a gravity (1.042 in this case) rather than volume and 
>diluted near the end of the boil.  I got 8-1/2 gallons or so rather 
>than the target of 8 gallons (to fill a 7.75 gallon Sankey after 
>racking.)

What's with the hungry server, Pat?

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:37:55 -0600
From: "George, Marshall E." <Marshall.George at Reuters.com>
Subject: Whirlygigs...Megaswill Clone for the Loser...80 char limits

> I've sat idly by for the past few days getting my daily laugh 
> on the Whirlygig thread - now its my turn to chime in.  
> Mine has been sitting in the same ziplock bag it was 
> purchased in since its third use - 3+ years ago.  Why?  You don't 
> need to have a glorified lawn sprinkler to sparge.  Much easier 
> to add a gallon or two of sparge water to the mash while sparging 
> and then put the lid on it to keep the heat in.
> 
> "Bates, Floyd G" <BatesFG at bp.com> 
> writes that he must brew a clone of an American mega-swill.
> 
> Floyd - your recipe looks very good.  But I gotta slightly 
> disagree with Jeff on the use of all 6-row with the rice.  
> A-B uses a blend of 2-row and 6-row in the Bud grainbill - 
> but I'm willing to bet that the 2-row is on the low side compared 
> to the 6-row.  I'd go with 50% 6-row, 30% rice, and 20% 2-row.
> Step mash for that nice dry finish, and use some good 
> Hallertau  (the 2001 crop is excellent).  
> 
> A very good option that allows you to skip the cereal mash 
> is to substitute Minute Rice.  I have done this twice now and it 
> converts very well (almost too well) with no cereal mash and can 
> go right into the grist.  I add it to the grain before milling 
> to bust it up just a little.
> 
On a different note - why are we limited to 80 character lines?  Its 
always a pain to have to re-edit my initial post because of this
restriction.

> Marshall George
> Glen Carbon, IL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:01:05 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: New Orleans Brew Scene

Sorry, can't help with the brew scene in NOLA.  I'm there a few times
a year and have yet to find a great pub.  Are you going to Jazz Fest?

However, check out the coffee shop, Cafe Annunciation, address below.  We
should be open by April.  I'm also an avid coffee brewer - draught Fuller's
ESB, followed by a Panamanian Boquete, fresh roasted moments before and
brewed in a vacuum pot - heaven!

Domenick Venezia
Cafe Annunciation - Coming Soon
1226 Annunciation Street
New Orleans, LA  70130
"The Miracle of Coffee"
"Between Sex and Comedy on the Annunciation"
(Between Eros and Thalia streets)




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:02:38 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: light damage & brown bottles

Dave wrote:

>Rather I suspect that the reaction is due to energy
>being imparted to the hops resins in the beer.  Light is one way to
>provide that energy.  But heat from a long transport at sea in a cargo
>container on the deck of ship may result in the same effect.  These
>beers, packaged in green bottles, do not present skunk in Europe but
>they many of them do in the US.  I believe the transportation is the
>problem but not light.

Light is part of the problem for the reasons stated earlier and the
mechanism has been studied and proven.   I'm sure someone else will be
furiously typing a dissertation on the mechanics of photochemical reactions
into the Digest right about now so I'll just quote Malting and Brewing
Science on the subject: "Photolysis of isohumulone cleaves the isohexenoyl
side-chain to form a 3-methylbut-2-enyl radical which reacts with hydrogen
sulphide, or any available thiol, in the beer..."  So you're stuck with
mercaptan which is stinky because of it's sulfur molecule.

However, I believe that your assertion has merit which has not recieved the
attention it is due.  Lager yeasts produce fermentations which are high in
sulfur compounds, especially hydrogen sulfide.  Every time I open my chest
freezer to check a lager fermentation I am hit with the distinct odor of
H2S.  Some are worse than others.  While much of this is scrubbed out during
fermentation and lagering there still remains a decent sulfur component of
these beers.  I am pretty confident that improper shipping and handling,
with respect to temperature, will ultimately result in the formation of
other undesirable sulfur compounds along with or without the hop
constituents.  These compounds may either be mistaken by some as mercaptan
or may be very close in odor to mercaptan.
In any case, I expect a sulfur component to my lagers, but mercaptan is not
one of them.

Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen A. Pannicke

glen at pannicke.net          http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F  214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"I have made this letter longer than usual,
because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:37:56 -0600
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Re: To shake or not to shake, that is the question

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:34:31 -0600 "Berggren, Stefan"
<stefan_berggren at trekbike.com> queried:

>I have been going over and over in my head about shaking kegs when force
>carbonating.  What is the best route to take?  Do I over pressurize (30psi)
>and shake or do I pressurize normally and lit is sit for a week or two?  I
>would love to hear peoples opinion on this subject and methods to their
>kegging madness?  Help an undecided shaker out.....

(I am sure you will get a lot of help on this question, but I could not
stop myself from inserting my two cents.)

The answer to you question depends simply on how long you are willing
to wait for the beer to carbonate.  Shaking is useful if you want to
accelerate the carbonation process to get a keg ready for drinking
quickly.  IMHO, however, there is a dark side to this process.  More on
this later.

At the risk of being exposed as someone not truly competent to speak of
these matters, I will attempt to explain forced carbonation from a
practical perspective.

As we all know, CO2 dissolves in beer and produces those delightful,
tiny bubbles we know as carbonation.  The amount of CO2 that will be
dissolved in any given quantity of beer depends almost entirely on two
factors --- (1) the temperature of the beer and (2) the pressure of the
CO2 gas in the head space above the beer.  The amount of CO2 dissolved
in the beer will reach a state of equilibrium over time, and will
remain constant as long as the temperature and pressure remain
constant.

The CO2 pressure needed to push the beer out of the keg and through my
serving faucet without gushing is fixed by the length, diameter, and
general cleanliness of the serving lines.  If I force carbonate at one
pressure, and then change to a different pressure for serving, won't
this change the amount of carbonation in the beer?  Yes, it absolutely
will (over time).

Like you, I want my beer at the "proper" temperature and containing the
"proper" amount of carbonation.  Since these two conditions are fixed
by my preferences, I refuse to change them.  The CO2 pressure needed
for serving is also fixed (by science) and I cannot modify it without
paying consequences.

So what is a mother to do?  From my perspective, it turns out that the
answer is relatively simple.  Store the keg at the desired serving
temperature, apply CO2 pressure at the desired serving pressure, and
wait patiently until it reaches equilibrium and is carbonated.  Now I
have observed a mysterious, beautiful, and fortunate coincidence.  When
the beer at this temperature and pressure reaches equilibrium, the
carbonation level is PERFECT!  If you think about it, how could it be
any different?  All of the factors that effected the carbonation level
were actually determined by your preferences in the first place! 
Happy, happy!  Joy, joy!

So this is what I do, and wholeheartedly recommend to others.  Be
patient!  Plan your brewing schedule so that you can let carbonation
happen at its own pace.  Fill your keg from the fermenter, put it into
your serving cooler, apply CO2 at serving pressure, and wait.  It
normally takes about 14 days.  And once equilibrium is reached, it will
stay that way.  The beer will still be perfectly carbonated after 28
days.  Unless, of course, you and your buddies quaff it all down first.

If you do not have 14 days, then yes, you CAN accelerate the process of
dissolving CO2.  Raising the pressure increases the rate at which CO2
is dissolved.  Shaking the keg vigorously increases the surface area of
the beer exposed to the CO2, and thus increases the rate at which CO2
dissolves.  There may be other things you can do to increase the rate
at which the CO2 dissolves.

The down side of these techniques is that the carbonation level in your
keg of beer is not in a state of equilibrium.  And this means it will
change over time.  I like my beer to remain constant over time.  Of
course, if you drink the entire keg before it changes, then this is not
a problem!  :-)




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:43:14 -0600
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Re: He who falls first must brew a Bud Light

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:43:11 -0600, "Bates, Floyd G" <BatesFG at bp.com>
poses:

>Well after losing a small wager centering around my liver's processing
>capacity - apparently I am unable to sit or speak correctly after drinking
>dopplebock - I have been reduced to attempting a clone of an American
>mega-swill.
>
>Could someone provide feedback on the following recipe?  Is this close?

See my recipe at:

http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/recipes/Budmilloors.html

ProMash recipe file is available on request.  :-)




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:27:34 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: CAP Report / RIMs heater question

Jeff had a few comments on my CAP report.  To be honest, I don't think the
stuck sparge was due to the grain bill, grind, or cereal mash - I'm pretty
sure it was a clogged outlet on the phalse bottom. And no, I didn't rest the
cereal mash at 153 before boiling it (and now I feel shame).  The beer
started fast (which you would expect w/ 20 gr of dried yeast), and is
bubbling away nicely in the 48F basement (far away from the litter box).
I'll report on how it tastes after it's lagered.

As for the bird, I never found him - only a bunch of feathers, so he must
have lived & flew away.  The window didn't fare so well:
http://www.strangebrew.ca/Drew/SWIG/window_crack.jpg .
- ---
Quick RIMS question: anyone out there using the RIMS heater chamber and
heater element from Moving Brews?  If so, do you run the heater at 120 or
240 V?  How do you control the heater (other than on/off)?

Cheers!
Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario [694.5km, 56.4 Rennerian]
http://www.strangebrew.ca





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Date: 23 Jan 2002 16:48:29 +0000
From: Yerry Felix <1i at esperi.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Whirlygigs

"The Holders" <zymie at charter.net> writes:

>> Dan, the sparge arm man says:
>> 
>> "Sparge arms make sure that there will be no boring of holes in the
>> mash without the brewer giving the sparge almost constant
>> attention. "
> 
> Again, I think this is a crock.

I tried both methods and prefer the Whirlygig :P

It means I can just sparge and relax, moreover, I can hear if there is
no water left, or too much water (that will grace the kitchen floor if
not checked) because the noise stops -- without looking at it
constantly, and loosing heat by doing so.

My current puzzle is how to rig the sparge arm up with a little pump
to rinse my mung beans shoots constantly with fresh water -- the more
you rinse, the fatter they get, and that is a good thing(tm).

> Now, what about lava lamps and brewing?

Dunno, I brew inna keg so I canna see.  Glass is too risky for me :)

Jedno pivo, pros!

Gabriela
- -- 


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:29:50 -0600
From: "Dave Darity" <dave at jamesbaker.com>
Subject: Oxyclean as a sanitizer?

Hello all.  I am a new poster so please forgive any novice errors. 
I recently noticed a product called "Oxyclean" intended for stain removal,
and general cleaner. The listed ingredients were Sodium Percarbonates and
Sodium Carbonates. I was thinking these were the same ingredients for
"one-step" sanitizer. I was wondering if the "oxyclean" would be suitable to
use for cleaning and sanitizing my brew equipment. 
Many Thanks, 
Dave Darity
Edmond,OK
1079.5, 291.1] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:46:47 -0400
From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Ringwood yeast correction; RauchCAP comment

I wrote:

> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:35:25 -0400
> From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca>
> Subject: Re: Hop tea / Ringwood yeast 
> 
> Picaroon's Traditional Ales is the local microbrewery here in
> Fredericton, NB.... therefore use the Ringwood yeast....
> Picaroon's ferments at much warmer temperatures, 25C I think.

I remembered wrongly.  21C is the desired temperature (70F).  Also, at
17C the yeast really slows down, FWIW.

So far this has not generated any comments:

> I find it interesting that commercial brewers make excellent beer in ten
> days or so, while all the homebrew I've ever had or made definitely
> seemed to improve with a month or three of aging.

Any ideas out there as to why?


Later, Drew reported on his CAP-Brewday-From-Hell:

> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:37:30 -0500
> From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
> Subject: CAP Report

> Crap.  At least I had some S-04 kicking around as a backup.  First time
> doing a cereal mash - mixed 2 lbs of milled grain and 3 lbs of Unico
> cornmeal / polenta, added the water, and put it on to cook while the main
> mash rested at 140F.  It was like porridge, and I discovered a lesson: if
> you don't stir the cereal mash, that burnt smokey smell is the corn porridge
> burning on the bottom.  Crap.  Stir stir stir, maybe it will be a RauchCAP.

I did this to my third batch of CCCA/CACA.  Very badly burnt rice (thin
canning pot on a propane cooker).  Went ahead anyway, hoping that burnt
taste/smell would attenuate over time.  After ten days or so in the
primary, it was still unbearable, so down the drain went 40 litres. 
First batch I've ever had to sewer.


Lesson learned: buddies over during brew session only need one hand to
hold beer mug.  Make 'em use the other one to stir the cereal mash!

I did my first CAP two weeks ago.  I split the brew into two buckets, 17
litres pitched with about seven fluid ounces of Wyeast 2278 slurry
(about four or five generations old), and 15 litres pitched with a
Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager stepped up a couple of times (probably not
enough yeast, probably between one and two fl. ozs. of yeast).  Not
surprisingly the 2278 developed a bigger rockier head sooner, and seems
to be pretty still now.  Will rack any day now....

FWIW, I really find doing a cereal mash to be fun (though fairly busy
work).

> laundry.  Start racking chilled wort to fermentor.  Notice that I'm racking
> to uncleaned, unsterilized spare carboy instead of clean, sterilized carboy.
> Crap.  Recollect that spare carboy has been stored uncovered next to cat box
> in the basement lo these many months.  Swear uncontrollably.  SWMBO suggests

Do let us now how the KittyRauchCAP turns out, OK? ;-)



- -- 
 - Daniel
Fredericton, NB  Canada


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:54:12 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Sparge Arms

I posted:

<From: "Kirk Fleming" <kirkfleming at earthlink.net> asks about the rational
behind sparge arms.  Very few thing in brewing are absolutely necessary.
Even false bottoms, screen tubes and manifolds can be dispensed with if one
is willing to put up with the consequences.  Sparge arms make sure that
there will be no boring of holes in the mash without the brewer giving the
sparge almost constant attention.  Sure there are other ways of
accomplishing the same thing without a sparge arm, but a sparge arm is an
elegant and simple way of doing this.>

And Mr. Holder responds:

<Dan, the sparge arm man says:

"Sparge arms make sure that there will be no boring of holes in the mash
without the brewer giving the sparge almost constant attention. "

Again, I think this is a crock.

Back in my Zapap mashing days, I just had a hose from the HLT draining
straight onto the grainbed. Did it disturb the grain a little? Yes it did.
Did it matter? NO it didn't.>

I don't see him saying that sparge arms do not do what I said they do.  I
see him questioning the need for sparge arms.  That's OK.  I shudder to
think of the list of things that some homebrewers do that I question the
need for.  It would be quite a list.

From: "Kurt Schweter" <KSchweter at smgfoodlb.com> Posts:
Subject: Re: sparge arms

<Dan, please ----
absolutely necessary ????
some people may get the impression that
in your own way you are telemarketing>

I believe Mr. Schweter has extricated but two words from my post and tried
to put them in as bad a light as possible.  This behavior would raise
eyebrows in even the most heated political forums.

I trust that he is pulling our collective legs

 Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com

Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby!




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:29:50 EST
From: Himsbrew at aol.com
Subject: more water chemistry questions

thanks to all for the response to my water 
analysis question. Now for another one, 
according to the jan. /feb. issue if BYO 
the water analysis for BURTON has the 
following : sulfate 450-725, calcium 268-295.
In the same article it states that one gram 
of gypsum in one gallon of water adds-61.5ppm
 calcium& 147.4ppm sulfate 
Now,if my water is 50ppm calcium & 13 ppm 
sulfate does that mean I need to add nearly
 30g of gypsum  for a 10 gallon batch to 
match this water? Seems way too high!
thanks for seting me on track!
jim cuny
himsbrew at aol.com
green bay wi


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:30:34 -0600
From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: Re: New Orleans Brew Scene

Content-Type: text/enriched
Text-Width: 70

 Hello, c'mon down and have fun...we got beer!!

 

 1. The Bulldog - on Magazine St. uptown area. Many great beers on tap, and a
 decent selection of bottles...couple of good pizza and pasta restaurants on
 the same block...Rocky's, Mystic Pizza, Semolina's....

 

 2. Cooter Brown's - Riverbend area where Carrolton turns into St. Charles.
 Very good selection of bottle beer from all over...and decent number on tap.
They make a pretty good po-boy there...and the bleu chz burger is good too.
 Good oysters there this time of year too.

 

 3. Acadian Brewery - Carrolton ave...Mid-City area. This is the functioning
 brewery where Acadian beer is made...they have theirs on tap, and a few 
 others.
 Usually not too crowded..but, I've always had fun there...good beers.  I like
 them a little better that Abita beer...brewed on the northshore in Abita
 Springs.

 

 4. Crescent City Brewhouse--I think this is on Decatur St. It is about 2
blocks down from Jackson Square...and diagonally across the st. from
 the Jax brewery
 (alas, not functioning..just a shopping ctr.). Good brews..decent food..and if
 you want a little privacy...go upstairs, not a lot of people know about it..
 and you may can get a balcony seat and watch the world go by.

 

 5. Zea's Rotisserie and Brew Pub- In the Clearview shopping center corner of
 Clearview and Veteran's Blvd. In the Metaire area...really a suburb of NOLA,
 not far at all...GREAT beers on tap...and great food...They have 3-4 regular
 brews and one monthly special all brewed on site. 

 

 Hope this helps...if you want info on more kewl bars...drop a line back...!!

 

 Kelly

 

 On Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:14:34AM -0500, after pounding the keys randomly, 
Tim Lewis  came up with....


  ------------------------------
> > 
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:37:52 -0500
> > From: "Lewis, Tim                 HS" <<tim.lewis at hs.utc.com>
> > Subject: New Orleans Brew Scene
> > 
> > I am headed to New Orleans in April for a week.  The reviews I read
     recently
> > in Pubcrawler for Crescent City Brewhouse and some of the others weren't so
> > good.  Any recommendations for some good spots? Thanks.
> > 
> > Tim Lewis
> > Enfield, CT




- ------------------
No more Outlook....
Proudly using Mutt on Linux
- ------------------


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:44:10 -0500
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Homebrewed Aeroplains;<)

Has anyone tried to carry unlabeled homebrew onto an airplane since
9-11?????

I am not sure I want to try that trick or not ...Phil Wilcox



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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:16:30 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Carboys

Dan,

Yeah, carboys are hard to clean and handle, but here's a couple
tips that might help.

First, get a good carboy brush.  These can usually be bent into
a shape that will clean the carboy.  I've found the toughest part
to clean is the ring around the neck, but the brush gets right there.

Second, use PBW.  I found it to be the best cleaner out there.
4 tablespoons in 5 gallons, let it soak overnight.  almost all
of the crud just falls off - literally!  This stuff is awesome.

Lastly, for handling carboys, get a milk crate.  Put the carboy
in the milk crate before you fill it.  The milk crate has handles,
and makes a carboy alot easier to carry and move.

Hope this helps.

Bill
- --------------------------
Brew By You    
3504 Cottman Ave.
Philadelphia, PA 19149
215-335-BREW (PA)
888-542-BREW (Outside PA)
215-335-0712 (Fax)
www.brewbyyou.net
- ---------------------------




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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:06:20 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Propane Burner Question & New Law

Hi,
  I finally brewed up a batch in my new 10 gal kettle & found my old burner
wanting.  I'm trying to figure out what to replace it with & am unclear on
the high vs low pressure burners.  I'd like to continue to use my current
tank & hose, but I'm not sure what type they are.  The tank is smaller than
the standard propane tank, it's actually been laughed at when I take it to
be filled because it's so small.  It holds just over 1 gallon of propane &
has big square threads on a male connector (don't remember if it's right or
left hand thread).  The hose has a plastic female connector at one end for
the tank & I think a female smaller threaded connector for the burner (I
haven't taken it off the burner since I bought it so I'm not sure).  There
is no adjustment dials or other way to regulate the flow on the hose.  The
burner had a stopcock for flow regulation, just like in chemisty class.
>From what I've seen of most of the high BTU burners, the hose connection has
a male connection that looks like it might be the same as burner's, so my
hose might work.  But, the burner's hose looks like it has a big red knob on
it for the flow regulation & some of them cost extra.  Are there any burners
that have the flow control on the burner themselves so I can use my hose?
Will such a small tank like mine be able to provide enough pressure/gas for
a high pressure burner?  What's the effective difference between the high &
low pressure burners?  Currently, I only plan to use the burner for boiling
& not for mashing, since I have a seperate plastic mash tun, so I don't
think I'll need as much temperature control.

  Also, I'm not sure if this is already been announced, but I heard that
after March or April 1st, only propane tanks with an Overflow Shutoff Valve
will be filled.  I don't know if that's a California or Federal law, but I
know a number of brewers that are going to have to buy new tanks.

Thanks for your help,
Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA


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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:11:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Rotating Sparge Arm Whirlygigs

>From: mailto:jwz_sd at hotmail.com
>
>"Me thinks thou dost protest too much!"  I think it
>was Homer Simpson that 
>said that, but I'm not sure.  So, while I will agree
>that there are many 
>ways that one can apply the sparge water, the silly
>Phil's Sparger ranks 
>near the top with it's ability to annoy the
>competition. I suspect there is 
>some Listermann envy going on here.  What do ya'll
>think?

Ahh-I've mostly been lurking, but this is just too
much to pass up!

I think this is a fine example of how dangerous a
loose cannon can be.  I mean, putting words into our
hero Homer Simpson's mouth. Better put some beer
instead of words. Ha Ha :>)

Then, attributing a completely new capability for the
whirlybird to be able to annoy. Geez, is not jamming
and oxygenating enough, man oh man, it's not a miracle
machine! :>))
- ---------------------
Seriously, I have used the H type outlet manifold with
4 upward pointing elbows, and find it works well, I
did notice an increase of efficiency if I put a
lightweight plastic plate on top of the grains
submerged.  This catches any drilling that does appear
to be present on the surface, at least.

Ron









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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:37:16 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Extract Brews, kits?

Dan Ippolito writes that he'd like to see more extract recipes
and more on getting the best from extract/partial mash brewing.

I'd like to see more on this as well.

On a similar topic, I was wondering if anybody has noticed or
followed the recent new "no boil" trend regarding 'kit' brews
(the liquid kit cans that are pre-hopped and blended for a
certain "style").

I've seen huge full page ads for Munton's kits in the front of
magazines like BYO and/or Zymurgy with a long story describing how
easy these "new" kits are, and how are they are specially designed
to be "no boil".

The instructions on cans I have say to boil 2 liters of water
(I guess that's about a half gallon) and mix the contents of the
can with 1 kg sugar (or malt extract) and the boiling water - right
in the fermenter, then top up to 5 gallons with cold water, then
add yeast, stir, cover, and ferment.

I have personally never done a kit this way, as everything I have
ever read says "boil, boil, boil".  The BJCP exam has a question
where they ask you to list at least 5 reasons for boiling wort.

Knowing that one of those reasons is hop extraction, and knowing
that these kits are pre-hopped, the "no boil" concept does make
some sense.  However, knowing that another reason is sanitation,
this is an area of concern.

Anybody out there tried this?  I may have to try it once as an
experiment.  I have done kit brews from a can in the past - but
it was a few years ago, in my first year or two of brewing.  I
always boiled the kits for at least 30 minutes, as suggested by
the experts, and added my own flavor or aroma hops.

In looking over my old brewing records, I find that I never got
a kit brew from a can that was really good.

Other experiences?

Bill



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---