---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  RE: teflon stir bar / traceable thermometer (mark alfaro)
  Re: Dispensing from cornies to a Beer Engine (mark alfaro)
  RE:  Prickly Pear Beer (Bill Tobler)
  siphon (Darrell.Leavitt)
  Corny witha Beer Engine ("Steven Parfitt")
  BJCP style guidelines for Palm Pilot ("Mike Dixon")
  re: indoor cleaning ("Larry Maxwell")
  leftovers ("Jeremy Lenzendorf")
  Re: Dispensing from cornies to a Beer Engine ("Larry Bristol")
  Siphons and Brown Malt (David Brandt)
  Weizen / Weissbier ("R. Schaffer-Neitz")
  teflon stir bar / traceable thermometer ("Smith,Brian H")
  Announce: Reprint of Old Brewing Book (1852) (Glenn Raudins)
  SS Conical Fermetors ("Chris Dodge")
  Beer Stocks ("Tom Viemont")
  Re: Cleaning kegs ... and other stuff (davidson richard)
  re: weizen yeast (Mark Lazzaretto)
  Re: Weizen yeast and "Good Eats!" (Steven S)
  BIBIDI (Richard Foote)
  Refrigerator Fermentation ("John Gubbins")
  BJCP guidelines for Palm (Patrick Twohy)
  Bob's Tricks of the Trade... ;-) ("Bob Sutton")
  Simple Siphon Trick ("Mike Brennan")


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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:08:40 -0800
From: mark alfaro <brdrbru at home.com>
Subject: RE: teflon stir bar / traceable thermometer

Hi Bill,
You can find the stir bar and the NIST traceable thermometer at Cole
Parmer.    http://www.coleparmer.com/

Regards,

Mark Alfaro
Chula Vista, CA


Bill writes:

Greets -
        I'm looking for a stir bar for my magnetic stirrer, and have had
little
luck finding one on the web. Also, I'm looking for a NIST traceable
thermometer, again, available on the web. Any of you avid bookmarkers
know
where I can grab these little thingies?


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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:37:13 -0800
From: mark alfaro <brdrbru at home.com>
Subject: Re: Dispensing from cornies to a Beer Engine



 
 Hi Rob,
 As far as a CO2 breather for your beer engine set up, Norgren makes
just
 such an item. It replaces the volume of beer drawn with CO2 at
 atmospheric pressure. Not CAMRA compliant, but I can keep the real ales
 a lot longer now. I purchased mine at http://www.brewinbeagle.com nayy.
 I have not drawn beer with my engines any farther than about 4 feet,
but
 I once spoke with a knowledgable lady who told me that she had modified
 a cornelius keg lid by installing a 1/2" SS draw tube through the lid
 and extending to the depth of the existing 1/4" draw tube. The tube is
 welded with enough of the tube sticking through the top of the lid to
attach a
 1/2" pump inlet hose. Prior to placing the cornie into service, the keg
is
 vented and the lid is replaced with the sanitized, modified lid. This
 sort of arrangement may help with your long draw requirement. Good
Luck!
 
 Regards,

 Mark Alfaro
 Chula Vista, CA
 
> Rob Wallace writes:
> 
>         A quick question for those that may have experience dispensing
> from a 5
> gallon Cornelius keg to an authentic beer engine.
>         I am the recent proud owner of a Homark Beer engine that works
> superbly
> (great eBay contact!) and am looking for advice as to how to best
> dispense
> 'traditional' ales from cornies.  I would like to set up some form of
> CO2
> breather system following natural carbonation so that the hand pumped
> ale
> characteristics are preserved even if I don't finish the keg in one
> night
> (!).  My bar is on the first floor and the 50^F beer fridge is in the
> basement just under the bar - I expect to pull beer from the basement
> through a line of about 15 to 20 feet.  What diameter beverage hose
> might
> you suggest?


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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:29:23 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:  Prickly Pear Beer

Hey Braam,
   How about a recipe?  We have plenty of prickly pears down here in Texas.

Thanks,

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:55:46 -0500
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: siphon

Dave mentions the Fermtech siphon.  I have not used this one,but have
some experience with the Quoin (PartyPig) siphon, and like it a lot.
There is a center plastic tube that you position just above the trub/
yeast, then the siphon is started with either C02  or a hand pump.  Seems
to work real well for me...and certainly much better than either using
ones lips...or filling the siphon hose with water.

 ...Darrell



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:21:40 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Corny witha Beer Engine

Interesting that you should post this, as I also recently got an engine off 
e-bay and am in the process of setting it up. I have two cornys of 
Boddington clone, per the recent Zymurgy article, which have just had their 
priming sugar added.

The standard size hose is 1/2" from what I have found (and what was attached 
to my engine when I got it. This may be due to the distance from cask to 
engine in most pubs. I'm going to try some different diameters and lengths 
to the splice. Due to the pick up tube and barb arrangement on a corny, it 
will have to use some smaller diameter line till it steps up to the 1/2" 
hose. One option would be to remove the pickup and poppet valve assembly and 
make a hose fitting that would be 1/2" all the way. This would probably be 
the optimum but would require you to lay the keg on it's side.

Brewing Beagle has some information and sells beer engines and support items 
(NAYAYA). They no longe sell 1/2" tubing and recommend WW Grainger (NAYAYA):

http://www.brewinbeagle.com/

I am looking into building a special insulated cradle to keep my beer cool. 
My basement is currently 62F, and will hit 75F in the summer. Too warm for 
serving temp. My referidgeerator is too cold since I use it for lagering.

I'm looking into designing a small peltier cooler for the corny. Ideally it 
would have a temp sensor to provide feedback to the power supply to control 
the temp.

Anyone done this before?

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck




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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:24:04 -0500
From: "Mike Dixon" <mpdixon at ipass.net>
Subject: BJCP style guidelines for Palm Pilot 

For a 60 Kb download of BJCP Styles for Palm Pilot go to
http://www.ipass.net/~mpdixon/brew/Education/BeerStyle.PDB
You'll need a reader like CSpotRun, but it is formatted for the Palm Screen.

Cheers,
Mike



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:46:26 -0500
From: "Larry Maxwell" <larrymax at bellsouth.net>
Subject: re: indoor cleaning

Steve Alexander is pondering cleanability issues.

Call me anal, but perhaps the No. 1 design criterion in putting
togther my brewery was cleanability, as I brew not just "indoors"
but pretty much right in my condo living room.  Everything except
the fermenters and small items gets cleaned in place. Grain is
dumped into a garbage bag from the mash tun, which is supported
on a frame and pivots to dump.  Hops and break in the kettle are
scooped out into the garbage.  The system is then cleaned
each item and out to the sink drain through a garden hose. I
rarely carry anything over to a sink, except small items. I couldn't
wash the kettle in the sink even if I wanted to, as it's a hefty 100 L
restaurant pot.  Yes, there is inevitably some spillage/splashing,
but I put a vinyl mat under the whole system when I brew/clean
(the system is on casters), and absent some unforeseen disaster it
is all I need to do. I take the fermenters (10 G cornies) into the
stall shower, rest them in milk crates, and wash them with a hose
from the sink. Wish I had a driveway or a backyard or even a
dedicated corner of a basement, but no such luck.  Someday.

This is a pretty extreme solution to the cleaning problem, and
probably doesn't help Steve, but I thought it might be of interest.

Larry
Atlanta

P.S.  Yes, I am single :-)



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:53:54 -0600
From: "Jeremy Lenzendorf" <jlenzendorf at progeng.com>
Subject: leftovers

Hello beer gurus.  I've been a longtime lurker and finally have a question
worth asking.  I have been doing extract brews using established recipes.
After ordering ingredients I have some leftovers.  I know that creating your
own recipe is one of the appeals of homebrewing but I'm not sure how to get
started formulating a recipe using the ingredients I have.  Here's what I
have:

Wyeast 1098 - British Ale
1/4oz - Fuggles hops
1oz - Saaz hops
1oz - Yakima Kent Goldings hops
1oz - Norther Brewer hops
1/4-1/2lb Crystal (10L) Malt grains

Questions I have:  Can I do anything with these, and/or how do I go about
formulating a recipe?  I have ProMash to help me, but haven't really used it
yet.

Private emails are fine.  Thanks in advance.

Jeremy

==
Jeremy Lenzendorf
jlenzendorf at progeng.com
Project Engineer
Progressive Engineering, Inc.



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:12:39 -0600
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Re: Dispensing from cornies to a Beer Engine

Robert S Wallace <rwallace at iastate.edu> interrogates:

>I am the recent proud owner of a Homark Beer engine that works superbly
>(great eBay contact!) and am looking for advice as to how to best dispense
>'traditional' ales from cornies. 
 ...<snip>... 
>My bar is on the first floor and the 50^F beer fridge is in the
>basement just under the bar -

I acquired an Angram beer engine, and faced the same dilemma.  (See
http://www.doubleluck.com/things/brewery/process/conditioning.html) 
The problem, of course, is to keep a cask conditioned ale fresh. 
Traditionally, a cask is stored in a cool cellar and pumped by hand up
to the pub.  As beer is pumped from the cask, its volume is replaced by
ordinary air.  But since the cask is normally consumed within a few
days, there is not enough time for this exposure to oxygen to show its
detrimental affect.

I do not have a nice cool cellar, so like you, I use my beer serving
fridge, but at least the temperature control problem is solved.  I do
not (necessarily) expect to consume the entire keg in short order, so I
need a way to keep oxygen out of the keg.  You cannot simply connect a
CO2 line to the keg, even if the pressure is dramatically reduced,
because all it takes is enough pressure to lift a column of beer from
your keg to the beer engine, and your keg will be emptied sooner than
you want.  (Place mouth under beer engine faucet to prevent waste.)

Commercial brew pubs can face the same problem.  The secret is a gadget
called an "aspirator".  [I got my aspirator secondhand, so
unfortunately, I cannot give you a source where you can buy one.] 
Simply splice the aspirator into a CO2 line (it is directional, so be
sure to insert it correctly), and use a normal CO2 connection to the
input side on your cornie.  An aspirator is essentially a "regulator"
that supplies gas at ZERO pressure (1 atmosphere).  As long as there is
no vacuum on the output side, it prevents gas from flowing through. 
When you pump some beer out of the keg, you form a partial vacuum, and
the aspirator allows CO2 to flow through to equalize the pressure back
to 1 atmosphere.

Viola!  Condition the beer in the cask traditionally, use the beer
engine to pump a traditional cask conditioned ale, and keep the beer
available as long as you want without exposing it to oxygen.

> I expect to pull beer from the basement
>through a line of about 15 to 20 feet.  What diameter beverage hose might
>you suggest?

The beer engine should should use the same size hose as you use for
your other beers that are pushed by CO2 pressure.  For that distance, I
would advise that you wrap the lines with insulation.  Remember that
once the lines leave the refrigerator, the beer within is exposed to
room temperature, and is subject to spoiling.  If you do not drink a
beer for a few days, the first pint out may not be as wonderful as
expected, so be sure drink a pint or more of each beer you have online
every day!  (Explain to your wife why you HAVE to do this.)

>I have heard/read of using the gas-in side to pull beer from, and the
>liquid-out fitting to let air into the keg... <snip>...

I cannot imagine what this would accomplish, unless it is simply to
reduce sediment.  (You can expect the first pint or so that you pull
from a keg will contain most of the sediment that you get from doing
natural conditioning.)  Otherwise, it sounds like a good way to
increase the surface area of the beer, and if it is being exposed to
oxygen, a good way to ruin it in a hurry.  Stand the keg upright like
normal.

Oh, and don't forget to put some fresh hops in the keg before
conditioning!  <YUM>


Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com




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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:24:05 -0800
From: David Brandt <jdlcr at flash.netdex.com>
Subject: Siphons and Brown Malt

Dear HBD'rs
   Here's my 1.5 cents worth on siphoning. I used to just use my mouth but
read a few articles on this and stopped. I bought a dirt cheap 100cc (I
think) syringe from my brew supply store and when I attach it to the draw
tube and pull on its plunger, it draws perfectly every time. I even use it,
attached to some tubing, as a beer thief.
   Also, some recipes call for Brown Malt. I know this can be bought, but is
home toasting a pale malt the same? If so, is there a standard temp and
time?
Thanks,
David Brandt
Cloverdale, CA 


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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:36:09 -0500
From: "R. Schaffer-Neitz" <rschaff at ptd.net>
Subject: Weizen / Weissbier

Hi all.  The recent discussion on weizen yeasts has brought out my anal
retentive side.  *Weizen* means "wheat" in German and in beer terms is
usually used as a short form of "hefeweizen" which is the wheat beer with
yeast (hefe) floating in it brewed in southern germany.

*Weissbier* is something completely different.  Weiss means "white" in
German and weissbier refers to a beer brewed primarily in the Berlin area
with an almost soda-like carbonation.  This is the beer that phillistine
Germans add to lemon-lime soda to make a "radler."

There, just needed to get that off my chest.  I saw one too many people
referring to "weizen" yeast as "weisse" and had to object.

Cheers,

Bob Schaffer-Neitz
Northumberland, PA
375, 102.6 (apparent)



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:57:28 -0600
From: "Smith,Brian H" <bhsmith at bogmil.gylrd.com>
Subject: teflon stir bar / traceable thermometer

Bill,

Try the VWR catalog.  We use it a lot here at work.  they have a lot of very
resonably priced NIST traceable thermometers (the digitals are the best buy
IMHO).  And mor teflon spin bars than you can shake a stick at.  Their web
address is www.vwrsp.com .

Brian Smith
Gaylord Container Corp.
Bogalusa, La
504/732-8475




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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:23:14 -0500
From: Glenn Raudins <glenn at raudins.com>
Subject: Announce: Reprint of Old Brewing Book (1852)

Some of you are aware of my project to reprint old brewing books
for the brewing community.  I'd like to announce that the first
book will be available soon (mid-April.)  The book is "The Complete
Practical Brewer", 1852, by M.L. Byrn.  Not to be confused with the
"Practical Brewer" from the Master Brewers Association, this book 
is an early American brewing book.  It contains period recipes,
discussions on process, and a dedicated chapter to the production 
of porter.  The table of contents for the book is posted on my 

website for those interested.

I am only planning to print 500 copies or less.  (I am doing this 
to keep some of the interesting old brewing knowledge circulating,
and not to be in the book business.)  The book will be a hard cover
bound in bonded leather.  199 pages.  I am taking pre-orders for 
US$25.00 plus shipping.  It is expected back from the printers in 
mid-April.

For more information, or information on how to order, see:

http://www.raudins.com/BrewBooks/

If you are interested in seeing other brewing and distilling books
reprinted, feel free to e-mail me with your recommendations.  

Note: I was reluctant to post this to HBD because of the concern over
people using the HBD to advertise.  However, some of the readers
encouraged me to do so because they felt a product announcement
like this would be welcomed.  I personally would like to see the
limited supply of books go to HBD readers. 

Glenn


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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:31:40 -0500
From: "Chris Dodge" <chrisdodge at hotmail.com>
Subject: SS Conical Fermetors

I am thinking of making the plunge and buying a SS Conical Fermentor.  I 
have seen several makes and types available and all seem very similar.  
For those of you that use SS Conicals, which brand or features do you 
think are the best, which brands models would you recommend and which 
would you stay away from.

Thanks
Chris


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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:34:00 -0600
From: "Tom Viemont" <t_viemont at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beer Stocks

Hey Nils,

Red Hook trades on the NASDAQ under HOOK.  Boston Beer trades under SAM.  
Didn't Warren Buffett say the first rule of investing is to buy what you 
know?  Happy trading!

Tom
- ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:09:50 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Beer Stock

Hi,
  I'm kind of interested in buying some stock in a brewery.  I know Pyramid
has a public offering, what other breweries offer stock?
Thanks


- ------------------------------





Best regards,


Tom Viemont




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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:34:27 -0800 (PST)
From: davidson richard <ooh_rick at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning kegs ... and other stuff

While reading about some of the ideas for cleaning
Sankes, carboys, and such in confined quarters, I
thought of something I might try in my garage.  I have
a large plastic sink that I wash my fermenter and
carboys in, but take my sanke outside.

I'm now toying with the idea of building a "cradle"
that my carboys and keg will fit into.  Something with
a V shape on four legs to keep the round object in
place.  The hind legs taller to create an angle for
easy drainage.  The whole thing could sit tall enough
to drain right into the sink.  I could set it right
next to the sink, scrub, rinse with a hose, etc.

I could probably even get a small garden sprayer
filled with iodophor to reach in the carboys and spray
the insides for sanitation.  Let it set a few minutes
and rinse.

Sound doable?



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:03:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Lazzaretto <lazyz28 at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: weizen yeast

Joel asks about using White Labs WLP380 Weizen IV,
which supposedly gives lower banana and higher
clove/phenols?

You're in luck.  Last summer I brewed 10 gallons of my
traditional summer hefe.  I used WLP380 in 5 gallons
and WLP300 in the other 5 gallons.  In checking my
notes, the 380 had a much less noticible banana nose,
and the clove was more noticible than with the 300. 
They were both excellent, but the 380 was more to my
liking due to the banana.  I don't know if this helps,
but I liked the 300 better with a slice of lemon than
the 380, maybe due to the already higher citrus taste
in the 380.

Let me know if you have specific questions and I'll
check my notes and email you with answers.




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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:18:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: Weizen yeast and "Good Eats!"


I used the WhiteLabs #4 a bit back. Pretty good overall, I would argue
about the clove character coming through. The two batches i made with it
were pretty well balanced. If anything the clove was a bit more pronounced
but not overly so at least in my recipe with my technique/temps.





 Steven St.Laurent ::: steven at 403forbidden.net ::: 403forbidden.net
			[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian









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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:32:37 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: BIBIDI

>BIBIDI !
>        Brew It Bottle It Drink It 
>       Carlos Benitez - Green Monster Brewing
>        Bainbridge, PA,  U.S.A.

I much prefer KIKIDI.

	Kraft It Keg It Drink It

It's so much easier and a hit with Elton too!


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing
Murrayville, GA






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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:23:26 -0700
From: "John Gubbins" <n0vse at idcomm.com>
Subject: Refrigerator Fermentation

I all out there in Beer Land.  Home brewing reminds me of Ham radio.
Folks are always experimenting in both hobbies.  Perhaps that is why
building your own radios is called homebrewing.  But I digress before
even getting started.

There was a thread running through HBD a month or so ago about letting
the natural yeasts and bacteria that are out there ferment a batch of
beer.  This made me curious so I tried it.  Last Saturday I brewed a
batch of English style Brown ale with some maple syrup in it.  It
looks good.  It is fermenting normally in the carboy.  But I poured my
hydrometer sample into a bowl and put the bowl on top of the
refrigerator.  I thought since I brew fairly regularly that the house
would be full of yeast.  Nothing happened but evaporation for almost a
week.  I kept adding water to this experimental wort.  I noticed a
vinegar smell a couple of days ago and this morning there is a nice
kreusen on top and it smells like bread.  Some yeast made it into this
stuff.

Now I'm not going to try and drink this.  I just was curious to see
what would happen.  I might be missing out on  something though.  It
might be good!

John Gubbins
Littleton, Colorado, apparent Rennerian 1117,265.5



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:10:55 -0800
From: Patrick Twohy <patrick at twohy.net>
Subject: BJCP guidelines for Palm

Carlos asked for the BCJP guidelines in a format 
to add to his palm organizer. ...
(http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/3871.html#3871-10)

I created such a thing a year or so ago when I was
boning up to take the BJCP exam. I posted it at
PalmGear (NAYYY), where it's available for
free. 

It also contains a tool that lets you judge beers based
on the guidelines and record each judging session. 

This nasty URL will take you to it, or you can go to
Palmgear.com and search for "BJCP". 

http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm
?sid=11982820011015161814&prodID=13985




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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:11:00 -0500
From: "Bob Sutton" <Bob at homebrew.com>
Subject: Bob's Tricks of the Trade... ;-)

Re: siphoning... Ralph discovered those colored rubber caps for carboys with
the 2 openings on top... and then blew out a lung starting the siphon...
just kiddin'.

As Dennis Miller once said... the oral habits are the hardest to break.

Instead of blowing, use your aquarium pump - generally most units will
deliver sufficient pressure to lift the beer 12-15 inches. Once the siphon
flow begins, disconnect the pump, and let the room air enter the carboy as
it drains. If you're worried about contamination, use a sterilizing-grade
filter downstream from the pump. If you're concerned about oxidation, some
use CO2  - not me. I'm more concerned about blasting my carboy (and me ) to
bits. I simply don't trust my pressure regulator to reliably control at such
low pressure. This could be a problem with an aquarium pump as well -
particularly if yours was built to SeaWorld specs.

A safer, simpler approach I've adopted is to affix my racking cane at the
outlet end of the siphon tubing. I just fill the tubing with iodophor
solution until I'm ready to siphon, then I drain out about 12 inches worth
of tubing - so that the inlet tubing doesn't dump iodophor solution into the
carboy. Once I insert the inlet tubing below the carboy's surface, I divert
the racking cane into a drain pot until the slug of cleaning solution is
gone, then I insert the racking cane into my keg (or carboy), and let 'er
rip. This is simply too easy...

Re: carboy carriers...
I stumbled into this trick when I found out how difficult it was to lower
and raise a full carboy into a chest freezer... When I bought my boil pot,
it came with one of those perforated metal baskets used for lobster boils,
turkey frying etc.. Much to my surprise my carboys actually fit INSIDE the
basket. Although I can't fully use the basket's swing handle, the
perforations along with the upper basket lip provide a good grip and lifting
surface - and the basket protects the carboy from the inevitable bumps that
happen while I transport it... try it... you'll like it...

Cheers from the SC foothills...

Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today





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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:09:06 -0600
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Simple Siphon Trick

This was mention in BYO magazine and is very simple but effective.  Simply
sanitize a spare air lock along with your siphon hose, the "s" shaped ones
work best.  Insert the bottom end into your hose and suck on the airlock
rather than the hose itself.  This will get the beer flowing and then simply
remove the airlock once the liquid gets halfway down the hose.  Its a two
hand operation, one to hold the hose and the other to hold the airlock.  In
two tries you will be an expert.  I do wash and sanitize my hands before
doing it.



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