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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Bell's Kalamazoo Stout Recipe ("Tom Viemont")
  Diacetyl Control And Dry Yeast Storage ("Phil Yates")
  Big Brew Recipes ("David Craft")
  Re: More Lists (David Lamotte)
  George Fix Passes Away. ("Lutzen, Karl F.")
  Zinc (Alan Meeker)
  RE: conical fermenters (Tim  Burkhart)
  RE: Washing machine motors? (Mark Alfaro)
  Re: Washing mashine motors (Rob Dewhirst)
  Gott Cooler, Grain Bed Depth and Peristaltic Pumps ("Hall, Kevin")
  Doobee Doobee Dewberry ("Larry Bristol")
  Povidone Iodine Soln. (RiedelD)
  RIMS Efficiency problems - any ideas? ("John Fraser")
  re: washing machine motors? ("the Ludwigs")
  Pubs Near Heathrow? (Kevin Elsken)
  Bazooka Screens ("Charity")
  sorry -just a test (Steve Hill)


*
* Drunk Monk Challenge Entry Deadline is 3/16/02!
* http://www.sgu.net/ukg/dmc/ for more information
*
* Maltose Falcons 2002 Mayfaire Competition 
* Entries accepted 4/1/02 - 4/11/02
* http://www.maltosefalcons.com for details
*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* MCAB-IV - April 12-13, 2002 - Cleveland Ohio
* See http://www.hbd.org/mcab for more info
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:05:38 -0600
From: "Tom Viemont" <t_viemont at hotmail.com>
Subject: Bell's Kalamazoo Stout Recipe

Delurking NOW...

Just wanted to say this is a great list.  I've been reading a while and have
learned a lot.  Great mix of newbies, like myself and experienced brewers.

For my next batch (#4), I'd like to make a stout.  I haven't really been
much of a stout drinker, but I found one I really like.  Kalamazoo Stout
from Bell's is uh-mazing.  Tastes real roasty.  Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout
tastes like Miller Lite in comparison.  Can anyone hook me up with a recipe?
Here's what the website says about the beer:

This is a full-bodied stout with plenty of roast flavor as well as hints of
molasses and chocolate. Ridiculous amounts of black and caramel malts make
this stout smooth, creamy, and utterly opaque.

I'm doing extracts and specialty grains.  Soon a mini-mash...

TIA,

Tom
Forest Park, IL
[206.2, 262.9] Apparent Rennerian

t_viemont-nospam at hotmail.com
to reply privately, just remove -nospam



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:23:08 +1100
From: "Phil Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Diacetyl Control And Dry Yeast Storage

I recently posted on my new experience using a dry yeast, Safale S-04. Prior
to this I had used nothing but liquid yeasts for many years. My experience
with S-04 was an extremely rapid fermentation and early indications of very
high diacetyl production. I'm pleased to say that the final result is quite
an acceptable beer.

Next time I use this yeast I plan to retard the fermentation temperature
prior to and during high kruesen. The yeast is so viable it simply ran riot.

I'm buying these dry yeasts in 500gm packets and according to the
instructions, after opening it should be used within a few days. There is no
way I can use 500gms of dry yeast in a few days. So I came up with an idea.
I poured the yeast into a PET bottle, capped it with a carbonating cap,
purged out the air (by squeezing) and pumped the bottle up with CO2. I
figure the enemy would be air and moisture. Well I have certainly eliminated
the air but I am not sure about the moisture content in bottled CO2. Any
thoughts about this? After a few weeks the yeast certainly seems very dry.

I have to have a laugh. I remember some time back Arnold Chickenshorts (or
maybe it was Eric Panther) posted in here about keeping his grain under a
blanket of nitrogen. I blasted him for being ridiculous. Now I find myself
keeping my yeast under a blanket of CO2!

My dad once said to me (many years ago) when he was at the age of 14, he
thought his own dad had no idea about anything. By the time he turned 18, he
was amazed how much his dad had learnt.!

I guess when you stop learning (or think you have), it's time to give it all
away.

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:41 -0500
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Big Brew Recipes

Nothing like a light and refreshing Old Ale or Maibock come June to quench
one thirst!

What are they thinking!

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC




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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:02:30 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: More Lists

Good evening all,

And particularly Mark Ellis in Oz.

While I fully support anyone furthering the discussion of our craft ( I
have signed up to the Brewing forum), I am concerned that Mark may have
'frightened the horses' so to speak.

I have been using the 'free' discussion list available from Yahoo and
others for a number of years, and have yet to experience ANY spam as a
result.  

How do I know this ?  Well one benefit of having your own domain name is
that you can sign up to each service using a unique address.  Any spam
originating from that address shows where it is coming from.

Another feature that I can recommend is offering all our subscribers a
'craftbrewer.org' address that they can hide their own 'real' email address
behind.  This is standard practise for the contributors to our web site,
plus a number of 'spam shy' users utilise it.

I would also advise against 'signing-up' with these free discussion lists. 
It is far better to view the posts on the web or to post by email.

Hope this helps some of you in the electronic world,

David


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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:58:56 -0600
From: "Lutzen, Karl F." <kfl at umr.edu>
Subject: George Fix Passes Away.


Folks, this is very bad news. I'm posting this as the person that
tried to was having problems:

  Dear fellow brewers: 
  George passed away today  3/10/02 at 11:50 a.m. from pneumonia.  I want 
  to thank everyone on the hbd digest board, all of our homebrewing friends, 
  you, just EVERYONE that wrote to him.  You gave him strength and dignity. 
  If anyone wishes to write, please tell them to send it to Bentlybear at aol.com, 
  my personal email address.  Again, thank you thank you thank you.  You have 
  meant the entire world to George. 
  love, 
  Laurie Fix 

I think that your next brew session should be in memory of George.

=====================================================================
Karl F. Lutzen                   | Computing and Information Services 
Network System Analyst           | University of Missouri - Rolla
E-Mail: kfl at umr.edu              | 104 Computer Science Bldg. 
Fax: (573) 341-4216              | 1870 Miner Circle 
Voice: (573) 341-4841            | Rolla, MO 65409-0360
===================================================================== 
 


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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:31:33 -0500
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Zinc

Jethro sez:
====================
Alan, I will personally provide you with a copy of a videotape (DVD, if you
prefer.) of Keith Vila of Coors, some years ago  at  a conference, where he
stated that research  at  Coors, expected to find an upward limit for
zinc...was unable to....as far as the yeast were concerned.
====================
And I will provide you with a video of Richard Nixon saying he's "Not a
crook" plus bonus footage of Bill Clinton saying he "Did not have sex with
that woman."

But seriously, I would like to know the details of this research as it seems
to conflict with other published work regarding potential inhibitory effects
of Zn. How far did they push the zinc concentration? I also haven't seen the
article by Chris White that you spoke of and would appreciate a copy if you
have one handy.

I checked on the White labs website and saw that they are selling Servomyces
for about $6 per 10gm package. This is supposedly sufficient for 10 U.S.
bbls so it would, in fact, seem to be a very cheap source for
supplementation on the homebrew scale.

 -Alan Meeker



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:20:54 -0600
From: Tim Burkhart <tburkhart at dridesign.com>
Subject: RE: conical fermenters

Steve writes,

>>I was hoping to get some input on experiences with plastic or stainless
conical fermenters.

I have used the "Plastic Conical II" for over 2 years now. All the original
parts are functioning and the surface has held up to vigorous scrubbing. I
have some observations however:

1. The 5" opening at the top is adequate for cleaning but you really have to
go after the gunk that adhears to the multiple bends around and under the
opening.

2. The fermenter is capped with a rubber lid. I have replaced the lid with
plastic wrap secured by a heavy rubber band as a cover. That way I can
monitor the fermentation and avoid cleaning / sanitizing the cap.

3. The hole meant for a bubbler is a bit too close to the surface of the
wort, especially if you are in the 5.5 to 6 gallon range. The bubbler hole
is 2 inches below the cap and yeast foam can easily crawl through the
bubbler, even if it doesn't reach the cap. For vigorous yeasts I use a 5/8
blow off tube.

4. The siphon port on the side of the cone tends to leak slightly. A
generous wrapping of teflon tape on the threads of the port have helped
minimize the leaking. This port can be a PITA to tighten from the inside. It
tightens to the left and it can be difficult to keep a good grip on it. 

5. The siphon tube is pinched shut with a plastic clamp that I cannot
describe. The only thing keeping 5 gallons of precious brew from spilling
onto the floor is this clamp. I wrap wire around it to keep it from popping
open. Some sort of a valve would be much safer. I'm sure I could find a
replacement if I weren't so lazy.

6. The stand is scary. Flimsy aluminum tubing. However mine is still
standing after 2 years and occasional tightening.

Overall I'm happy with my fermenter, although it sounds like a lot of work
compared to a simple plastic fermenting bucket. Were I to buy another one,
however, I would save the extra bucks to buy the "Mini Brew" 8 gallon. From
the description and picture, it seems to address some of the problems I've
encountered with the Plastic Conical II.

Tim Burkhart
Kansas City



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:00:19 -0800
From: Mark Alfaro <malfaro at qcpi.com>
Subject: RE: Washing machine motors?

Hi Paul,
I use a 1/4 h.p. washing machine motor on my Valley mill, it works great. 
The motor is mounted on a hinged plate so that the weight of the motor is 
the tension on the belt. The motor is able to swing freely on the hinged 
mount. If I hit a rock, or some other hard object, the motor swings up and 
disengages the belt drive which is often enough to dislodge the 
obstruction. On the downside, the washing machine motor weighs more than a 
drill motor. Hope this helps.

Mark Alfaro
Chula Vista, CA




From: Paul Kensler <pkensler at comcast.net>
Subject: Washing machine motors?

I checked the archives and couldn't find anything...  but I swore I've seen
this discussed before.

Does anyone have any experience or recommendations on using a washing
machine motor to motorize a malt mill?



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:13:47 -0600
From: Rob Dewhirst <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: Washing mashine motors


>
>Does anyone have any experience or recommendations on using a washing
>machine motor to motorize a malt mill?

I think you might be thinking of a clothes dryer motor.  If you already 
have a washing machine motor, go for it.  But if you have not yet acquired 
the motor, I'd get a dryer motor.

Find the local used appliance shop.  They will probably sell you one for a 
song or trade for beer.  I got mine for $2, and the guy told me to bring it 
back if it didn't work.  The belt and pulley were more expensive than the motor.



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:18:39 -0500
From: "Hall, Kevin" <Kevin_Hall at bausch.com>
Subject: Gott Cooler, Grain Bed Depth and Peristaltic Pumps

Beerlings,

I must agree with Dan Listermann's response regarding grain bed depth in a
Gott type cylindrical cooler. I have been using a five gallon (Coleman) for
four or five years with stupendous results. I have mashed 14 pounds plus
into it (quite a thick mash too) with nary a stuck sparge due to bed depth.
This makes the cooler nearly full, which makes sparging a balancing act with
water on top and collect out the bottom. I have had some issues with the
outlet spigot becoming clogged with grains during runoff. 

I use the small Phil's Phalse Bottom, and no matter how careful I am during
dough in (I even tried Dan's own recommendations regarding this) I just
couldn't keep the grains from getting underneath. I fixed that bothersome
'feature' by wrapping a polyester paint strainer over it and securing with
an electrical tie wrap around the outlet tube. Viola, no more clogged
spigots. 

I have also replaced the spigot with a holed #7 stopper with the runoff
tubing stuck in. An adjustable plastic tube clamp controls the flow of
runnings to the collection kettle. This little rig is by no means the be
all, end all, but has given me many a tasty session.

I do have several delusions of creating a 10 gallon system, using modified
kegs, a rectangular cooler, a scavenged PLC, and recirculating infusion
system. The possibilities are seemingly endless.

As an aside, I use a home made counterflow chiller (3/8 copper tubing
jacketed by 5/8 silicone hose) which works wonderfully. By adjusting water
flow through the jacket and wort pumped through the tubing, the exact
desired temp can be had. Getting there does require a bit of monitoring. I
use a handheld Fluke thermometer with a wire thermocouple which sits in the
system outlet as it dumps into the fermenter. I have found this thermometer
to be invaluable, it basically fits everywhere, responds quickly, and gives
very accurate results (in C or F even). 

I also use an adjustable speed peristaltic pump for moving the hot wort
through the chiller (and hopback as needed). I haven't seen much discussion
of the use of a peristaltic pump here, at least in a while. The particular
transfer procedure and set up is:

*	Whirlpool the hot wort in the 10 gallon kettle for several minutes
(fifteen sounds like a good number, as it will take that long to make sure
everything is set up before going to the next part.

*	Insert the copper tubing can with stainless steel choreboy wrapped
around the end, clip to side of kettle using those very handy racking cane
clips (get several, I use them all the time)

*	Peristaltic pump moves the wort from the kettle, through the
hopback, through counterflow, then into the fermenter. 

*	Adjust speed of pump to a decent flow rate, then adjust water
through chiller jacket until temperature is set. This may take a bit, as
during the winter our water temperature is somewhere in the forties. Handy
tip, run the chiller jacket outlet into your washing machine, it's like free
hot water. Add laundry and soap before you start. Just be careful, as you
may fill the tub completely depending on your city water temperature. You
could also use this as preheated brewing water for the second session of the
day.

Each of these items are connected together using braided silicone tubing
with stainless steel band hose clamps. The peristaltic pump is run with
Cole-Parmer size 18 Phar-Med tubing. This is a thermoplastic elastomeric
material that has very good peristaltic pumping characteristics, has high
temperature service recommendations, and is non-extracting and non-cytotoxic
(USP Class VI plastic materials). C-P size 18 is approximately 3/8 diameter
with a 1/16 to 3/32 wall. The peristaltic pump can move a significant amount
of fluid if need be; typical cooling times for 5.5 to 6 gallons is 15 to 20
minutes, and this is more related to water temperature than pump output.

I make primarily ales with a heavy hop hand, and I have satisfactorily clear
beers, especially when kegged. The choreboy on a stick method has worked
very well, with both whole leaf, plug, and pellet hops. I have used up to 6
to 7 ounces or more in the kettle with no ill effects to system operation
(like I said, heavy hop hand).

I'd be happy to discuss anything with anybody about just about anything
brewing related.

Cheers,
Kevin Hall
Lilac Ridge (Home) Brewing Co.
Rochester, NY


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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:33:07 -0600
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Doobee Doobee Dewberry

With the imminent arrival of spring here in southeast Texas, the Double
Luck grounds will soon erupt with ripening dewberry vines.  [For the
uninitiated, you can think of dewberries as sort of wild blackberries.]
 Since I already have a name of it, I am thinking of making a dewberry
lambic, but since I do not have any experience with such things, I
would like to hear some wisdom from the collective about it.


Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com




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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:26:01 -0500
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: Povidone Iodine Soln.

To the chemistry folk:

I have access to some iodine solution and I'm wondering if it is
acceptable for brewing applications.  It is labelled as Povidone-
Iodine Solution with the active ingredient Polyvinyl Pyrrolidone-
Iodine at 10%.

I seem to recall that Iodophor is somehow bound to a polymer.
Is that what the above is?  Looks like it.

If this is okay to use for brewing, what sort of concentration is
recommended?

thanks,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, Canada.


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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:33:09 +0000
From: "John Fraser" <rims_brewing at hotmail.com>
Subject: RIMS Efficiency problems - any ideas?

I have just started fermenting my first attempt at a clone of Paulaner 
Weizen.  Problem is, that after all was done and told, my brewhouse 
efficiency was calculated at 65% (using Promash)!!  Pretty poor.

Recipe was (5 gallon)
5.25 lbs German Wheat Malt
4.5 lbs Belgian Pale Malt
0.25 lbs Munich Malt
0.6 Hallertau 4.7% for 60 minutes

Mash for 1 hour at 150 degrees F, sacharification was complete at around 
about 45 minutes, but I let it keep going.

For those with promash, see 
http://members.tripod.com/rims-brewing/rims_brewing_wheat.htm where you can 
download a zip file of the recipe AND the brew session files.  I also have a 
downloadable Excel spreadsheet (in a zip file) of the mash programs 
statistics that shows a nice graph of temperatures etc.

Still, I dont understand why my efficiency is so low.  Am I doing something 
wrong in Promash???  I had taken my OG and then used the calibrate function 
of Promash to take into account temperature etc.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated!

John M. Fraser
http://rims-brewing.tripod.com/
Relax and have a home brew




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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:44:22 -0800
From: "the Ludwigs" <mwludwig at tqci.net>
Subject: re: washing machine motors?


>Does anyone have any experience or recommendations on using a washing
>machine motor to motorize a malt mill?

A while back, someone suggested I try a washing machine motor in my
mill. Apparently, they are 2-speed motors and definitely easy to find.
Haven't tried one yet. 

Dave Ludwig
Flat Iron Brewery
Southern MD

- ---
[This E-mail was scanned for viruses at tqci.net]



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:21:09 -0500
From: Kevin Elsken <k.elsken at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Pubs Near Heathrow?

Just found out that I may have a half day layover in London on Sunday.
Can anyone recommend a good pub within a short walk or Underground ride
from Heathrow?

Private e-mails OK.

Kevin Elsken
Little Boy Brewery
North Strabane, PA



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:37:36 -0500
From: "Charity" <csomers at pa.net>
Subject: Bazooka Screens

I know weve been talking about Bazooka screens as trub 'blockers' in a
boiling kettle. I was interested in the use of the Bazooka 'T' in a mashing
environment. I was looking to upgrade my 5 gallon Gott cooler and convert a
Sanke keg to my masher. I am thinking of using the Bazooka "T" and the Sanke
adapter kit. Does anyone have any experience with this product as a masher?
Would this work as a masher with a Sanke Keg due to the slope on the bottom
of the barrel? Does anyone have instructions for this? Private e-mails
welcome. Thank you
Colby Fry
Orrstown, Pa



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:47:50 -0500
From: Steve Hill <stevehill at comcast.net>
Subject: sorry -just a test

this is only a test -  comcast changed their server - and recovery has not
been easy



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