---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  The Jethro Gump Report-George Fix ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Grain bed depth ("Kevin Morgan")
  Re: Big Brew Recipes ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  George ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  "Tests" (Pat Babcock)
  Mashing with a Bazooa screen (Jesse Stricker)
  malt sack volume? ("Larry Maxwell")
  Zinc supplements ("Drew Avis")
  Low Efficiency ("Jeffrey Donovan")
  Bazooka as masher (Paul Kensler)
  Re: Kalamazoo Stout Recipe ("Doug Hurst")
  AJ & 3068 genes, Gott depth, skull splitting in NYC ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Big Brew recipes (Paul Kensler)
  Overnight mash gone amuck (Jerome Peirick)
  pre water chiller for counter flow chiller ("Charlie Walker")
  Denver area off-sale ("matt dinges")
  Pubs near Heathrow (Calvin Perilloux)
  re: Big Brew Recipes ("Doug Moyer")
  Update to No-Sparge / Batch-Sparge article & spreadsheet (Ken Schwartz)
  Fw: Celis Pale Bock ("searn")


*
* Drunk Monk Challenge Entry Deadline is 3/16/02!
* http://www.sgu.net/ukg/dmc/ for more information
*
* Maltose Falcons 2002 Mayfaire Competition 
* Entries accepted 4/1/02 - 4/11/02
* http://www.maltosefalcons.com for details
*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* MCAB-IV - April 12-13, 2002 - Cleveland Ohio
* See http://www.hbd.org/mcab for more info
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:02:18 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report-George Fix

		The Jethro Gump Eulogy

     George Fix passed away yesterday.

     It's not an easy thing...losing a leader in our sport...a generous man
that gave me more than I could even recognize in the early days of my
association with him....when I just tried to learn from his books and
articles.
     I wanted to know 'George Fix, the Brewer.'

     Later in my brewing life I got to meet George personally,  at  GABF's and
other brewing con-fabs....and the bloke was more than could be imagined. It
didn't matter that you were a nobody, merely seeking his time was an open
invitation to lengthy discussion on whatever subject you brought up, always
filled with a 'have you tried this?'...or 'you should find this article.'
     "I'll send it to you." And he did.

     I was  at  a semi-formal function in Ames....seated  at  a table for perhaps
12 or so, out of 200 or 300...when I declared my intent to seek a heartier
beer from the hotel bar than was available as a part of the banquet
package....2 folk's asked if I would get them some as well...one I knew, but
the other fella that asked for me to get him what ever I deemed appropriate
struck me....He asked if I knew about beer....
     On my return with beers I was asked by the other fella if I knew
"George Fix, the Brewer." Max Gunzburger was his name, and as small a world
as we seem to occupy, it never seemed smaller when that night I was regaled
with tales of George's under-graduate days, by a fella that had been one of
George's best mates throughout life, going back to math days and beer
nights.

     I was told today, by one of George's family that when George was
undergoing the final days of his chemo, an accounting officer of the
hospital saw George with his doctor, and asked if that was George Fix.
     The Dr. replied, "No, this is Dr. Fix, the mathematician." The
accounting officer asked, "Isn't he George Fix, the Brewer?"

     That accounting officer is just like me....simply amazed that we have
been  at  some time in the company of a great brewer's generosity.
     I feel especially fortunate...I had a call returned just a few weeks
ago...
     And I know that anyone reading these words feels the same.
     We have all been touched by "George Fix, the Brewer."

     The most important call of all will be ....

     "ENTER, George Fix, the Brewer!......WE have a problem with ......"

     God Bless You Sir,
     Now that Heaven has a Better Brewer, What Need I Worry About?

Jethro Gump




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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:43:25 -0500
From: "Kevin Morgan" <vze29s6t at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Grain bed depth

Brian Schar said

  However, I am rethinking this in
light of an article in the recent Zymurgy that discusses 10 ways to prevent
stuck mashes.  The author suggests that the grain bed should be no more than
4 inches deep, and in no event more than 8 inches deep.  However, in a Gott
cooler, I can't believe I could get enough grain in there to make 5 gallons
of beer (much less 10 gallons) and still maintain a grain bed under 8 inches
in depth.  Is the author correct?  Or overly conservative?  How deep is your
grain piled in the Gott cooler mash tun?  Does it really matter?  I am
curious to get some feedback on this before I commit to a cooler.

Brian Schar
Menlo Park, California

I say:

I mash in a 10 Gal Gott with grain bed depths up to about 18", I use a
slotted copper manifold and 'almost never' have runoff problems.

Kevin Morgan, Rennerian coordinates unknown, Home brewing in South Jersey



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:20:31 +1030
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Big Brew Recipes

At 00:12 12/03/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:41 -0500
>From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
>Subject: Big Brew Recipes
>
>Nothing like a light and refreshing Old Ale or Maibock come June to quench
>one thirst!
>
>What are they thinking?

I know what they are thinking, they're thinking of us Downunder whilst we
are in the middle of OUR winter.







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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:43:14 +1030
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: George

Vale George and our sympathies to his wife and family,

Thomas and Co.

p.s. maybe Georges 1997 NHC Ninkasi Award Gold Medal
"Bonn-Bonn" pKoelsch recipe could be used in this years Big Brew?




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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:16:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: "Tests"

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

DO NOT SEND TEST MESSAGES TO THE POSTING ADDRESS!!!!

If you are wondering about your email functionallity, send the
word "status" to req at hbd.org. If you receive a reply, your email
is working fine. Please, please, PLEASE!!! don't send test
messages to the posting address.

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
                                  from my yeast lab Saturday





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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:42:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Jesse Stricker <jds19 at duke.edu>
Subject: Mashing with a Bazooa screen


Colby Fry <csomers at pa.net> writes:

> I know weve been talking about Bazooka screens as trub 'blockers' in a
> boiling kettle. I was interested in the use of the Bazooka 'T' in a mashing
> environment. I was looking to upgrade my 5 gallon Gott cooler and convert a
> Sanke keg to my masher. I am thinking of using the Bazooka "T" and the Sanke
> adapter kit. Does anyone have any experience with this product as a masher?
> Would this work as a masher with a Sanke Keg due to the slope on the bottom
> of the barrel? Does anyone have instructions for this? Private e-mails
> welcome. Thank you

	I use a Bazooka T screen and a ball valve kit from Zymico in a 10
gallon Gott cooler.  It works fabulously well.  Recirculation is quick and
runs clear after about a gallon (though I usually run two gallons through
just in case).  Cleanup is quick too.  I get about 75-80% efficiency with
five-gallon batches, although I don't pay much attention to efficiency (my
sparging technique is, well, rather casual).  I'm sure that I could get
better efficiency if I worried about it, but grain is cheap.

	I've not tried one on a Sanke keg, but I imagine that the sloped
bottom would just result in some dead space under the outlet.  That's not
the end of the world.

	Free hint for Zymico products -- you can get double-thick teflon
tape (for gas plumbing).  It stops slow drips and makes life much easier.
I've got two ball valve setups -- one fit together perfectly, one dripped
about a drip a minute despite several attempts to fix the problem until I
slathered on the double-thick teflon tape.  That did the trick.

	Jesse (Durham, NC)

- --
	Jesse Stricker				jds19 at acpub.duke.edu




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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:42:25 -0500
From: "Larry Maxwell" <larrymax at bellsouth.net>
Subject: malt sack volume?

I'm looking into options for storing grain bought in bulk
by the sack (typically 50 lbs, I believe) and would like
to know what is the approximate volume of a typical
sack of malt (in gallons) so I can buy an appropriately
sized container.  I have read the archives to see how
others are storing their bulk grain purchases, and have
decided on buying some plastic barrels with airtight lids.

Larry
Atlanta




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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:12:24 -0500
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Zinc supplements

Alan, Jethro, et al:
All this talk of zinc has made me wonder if I could simply chuck a zinc
supplement tablet into the boil instead of measuring out a grain of
servomyces.  Did a quick search of the HBD archives & turned up nothing.
The supplements I've seen at the health food store range from 10mg to 50mg,
but it sounds like 10mg would be fine.  The label says "chelated zinc...
elemental zinc (zinc gluconate)" - is this usable by yeast?

According to the label, the supplement will also help prevent any prostrate
problems in the yeast.

Drew Avis, Merrickville, Ontario ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca
It's easy to sit and scoff at an old man's folly. But also, check out his
Adam's apple!




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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:44:26 -0800
From: "Jeffrey Donovan" <jeffrey at promash.com>
Subject: Low Efficiency


John Fraser wrote: 

- -------------------- 
Still, I dont understand why my efficiency is so 
low.  Am I doing something wrong in Promash???  I 
had taken my OG and then used the calibrate function 
of Promash to take into account temperature etc. 
- -------------------- 

Well, on the ProMash end of things I don't see 
anything you did wrong, just a lower than expected 
efficiency. So, you targeted 5.3 Gal at 1.054 SG 
with an efficiency rating of 75%. However when all 
was said and done you collected 5.5 gal (5.25 in 
fermenter + .25 to kettle deadspace) at 1.045. 

Now, If those final volumes are correct then indeed 
you did not get the expected efficiency with this 
brew. You do mention you took great care with the 
OG measurement...was the final Volume measurement as 
precise? The final volume measurement is equally as 
critical in determining the true efficiency. If all 
is correct then you simply had a lower efficiency 
than expected. 

Feel free to contact me if you'd like to discuss the 
ProMash end of things, I'm sure lots of others will 
have comments as to *why* your efficiency may have 
dropped (grain crush, variation of grist bill, 
etc.). 

Cheers! 

 - Jeff Donovan 




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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:59:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: Bazooka as masher

Colby,
I haven't tried it yet, but based on my experience
with  my previous manifold (sort of a homemade
EZMasher) which I used in the kettle and in the
mash/lauter tun, I am sure the Bazooka would work
fine.  The only drawback would be as you mentioned -
the curved bottom of a Sanke keg.  I think any grain
or wort under the Bazooka would not be utilized - an
efficiency loss.  But we're probably only talking
about $.50 - $1.00 worth of grain...

Did you see the latest Zymurgy?  I think that article
did discuss using a Bazooka screen in a lauter tun,
although I think it might have been shown in a Gott
cooler.


Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:03:03 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Kalamazoo Stout Recipe

Tom,

I've been experimenting with Stout recipies recently.  The ingredient
which turns beer into Stout is Roasted Barley.  Other dark malts may or
may not be used.  My latest recipe uses Roasted Barley and 80L Crystal
Malt.  It is a Dry Stout, more like original bottled Guinness or
Murphy's.  If you are interested in a richer (Sweet) Stout like
Kalamazoo, I would recommend the addition of Chocolate Malt and more
base malt.  It will reallly bring out that malty chocolately flavor.

Perhaps something similar to:

Size: 5 Gallons
  7 lbs Light Malt Extract (OG should be 1.050-1.055)
  1 lb Roasted Barley
  .5 - .75 lbs 80L Crystal 
  .5 lbs Chocolate Malt

  ~ 1 oz. bittering hops 60 minutes (in the 6-9%AA range to provide ~30
IBUs)
  ~ 1 oz. Fuggle or Willamette 20 minutes

  Don't use any hops for aroma (less than 20 minutes)

  Yeast:  I like Wyeast 1028 (London Ale).  It provides a very pleasant
malty/breadiness.  I've also had very good results with Wyeast 1098
(Irish Ale)


Hope this helps,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:13:46 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: AJ & 3068 genes, Gott depth, skull splitting in NYC

I did get the recent Zymurgy on mashing but didn't even notice the crazed
notion of more than 8 inches of grainbed depth leading to stuck mashes.  I
mash in a 10 gallon Gott and generally have a grainbed of ~10-14 inches deep
in it.  When I do mashes for big beers, I typically have 24+ lbs of grain in
it and have yet to stick a big beer sparge.  A possible explanation for
stuck sparges in high bed depths with some false bottom devices, is simply
false bottom collapse or such.  I use a Phils false and have never had this
problem though.  The only times when I have lost sparge is when I have
managed to lift the Phalse up when adding water to grain and phloated it
causing grain to plug the outflow hose/valve requiring blowing it back, etc.

AJ: The news about the 3068 gene for clove/banana (typicaly hefe flavors) is
quite interesting.  What does it mean in terms of scaling up yeast for use.
Does empirical data show that its a yeast that only good for 1 normal use, 2
uses, 3 or what??  I assume that enough though the yeast are reproducing in
a typical wort, that you have enough of the cells still left with this gene
to generate the required taste/aroma? How would you recommend getting enough
of this yeast for use in a weizenbock/high OG wheat beer without completely
underpitching it?

I attended the Split thy Skull 3 in Brooklyn this past weekend.  Its a
barleywine festival of interesting brews.  2 barleywines of real interest to
me - Cold Salty from Heavyweight which was rumored to have been brewed,
frozen, and then ice-distilled and then served from cask on gravity and
Raison d'Extra from Dogfish Head that was 20+% ABV by batched feedings of
beet sugar and green raisons with Belgian yeast. 4 oz tastes of all 8 brews
were $3.50 each.

The Dogfish Head (tasted fifth) was quite non-cloudy, dark amber to ruby
color, and had no head.  It smelled sweet and syrupy and had low bitterness.
No typical belgian characteristics were apparent from its Belgian yeast
origin.  It looked like dark brandy and was quite smooth tasting with no
alcoholic burn even with the 40 proof level which surprised the heck out of
me.  It was interesting but I wouldn't have it again accept in a small
taster size like I did then.

The Cold Salty (tasted first) was a cloudy dark amber color with a slight
amber colored head served by gravity from cask.  It has a pleasing medium
bitterness with a definite alcoholic bite.  I was surprised with this bite
since it was rumored to be only 13% (pre/post freezing??) and I would have
expected it to be smoother with the freezing technology.

My favorite brew was Blue POint Old Howling Bastard which I did have 2
samples of.  It was my 2nd taste and my last/ninth taste as well.  It was a
cloudy orange color with a thick meringue head that lasted for some time.
It was quite smooth with medium to high bitterness probably just less than
the Sierra Nevada Bigfgoot 2000 that they had to try.  This was on handpump.
Other brews available were Brooklym Monster 2001, Urthel Hibernums Quentum
Tripel, Rogue Old Crusty, and Gales Millenium Brew 1997.

Pete Czerpak
Albany, NY


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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:20:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: Big Brew recipes

I've heard some folks express a bit of dissatisfaction
with this year's choices of Big Brew recipes - an Old
Ale and a Maibock - as being a bit too big and strong
for summer quaffing.  

Normally I'd agree, but being as the Maibock recipe
was provided by the late George Fix, I for one will be
brewing it in remembrance.  Perhaps I'll lager it over
the summer and save it for when the first fall chill
arrives...  nah, who'm I kidding, I'll drink it as
soon as its ready!

Here's to George -


Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:12:13 -0600
From: Jerome Peirick <jpeirick at im.wustl.edu>
Subject: Overnight mash gone amuck

When brewing ales, I mash in my oven overnight as a matter of course.
When I did so with a porter a couple of weeks ago, I made the stupid
mistake of not double checking the oven's thermostat before retiring for
the night.  It was set at 350F!  Upon waking six hours later, the mash
was simmering nicely, thank you very much.  Figuring there wasn't much
to lose, after making a pretty dramatic mistake so early in the process,
I pressed on.  To make a long story a mite shorter, I hit my target gravity,
the wort fermented as usual.  I transferred to the secondary on Saturday,
and tasted some of the questionable porter.  It tastes like I would
have expected it to taste had I not boiled the mash.  It smells fine.
It fermented out to the expected final gravity.  It is quite cloudy, but
being a porter, it's not aesthetically unpleasing.  So.  What did I do?
IMBR?  Have I found a way of automagically mashing out and subsequently
sterilizing the mash?  Mind you, I don't intend to continue this practice,
but it'd be nice to know what happened this time around.

Jerome Peirick
jpeirick at im.wustl.edu




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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:30:24 -0600
From: "Charlie Walker" <charlybill at prodigy.net>
Subject: pre water chiller for counter flow chiller

    Hi everyone, As the temperatures rise, summer is not far away here in
Texas. I use a counter flow wort chiller and need to make a pre-chiller for
the water before it goes to my counterflow. As the water comes from an above
ground holding tank the water temps easily get into the 80 to 90 deg F range
during the heat of the summer. I will be using a copper tubing coil with
garden hose connections in a bucket filled with ice to pre-chill the water.
What I am wondering about is would 3/8" give enough volume or do I need 1/2"
tubing and how long to drop the temp aprox 20 deg F. Anyone out there who
have experience with this I would appreciate some input. The only way I know
would be trial and error, rather check out others who have already tried it!
    1st round judging is underway for the 16th annual Bluebonnet Brew-off,
have tasted some fine brews! 1st round will be continuing next Sat with the
big event Mar 22 & 23 in Irving, Texas (DFW metroplex). A great time will be
had by all!
    Thanks in advance,
Charlie Walker
NTHB
Old Okra Brewery
Lancaster, Texas



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:41:33 +0000
From: "matt dinges" <matt_dinges at hotmail.com>
Subject: Denver area off-sale

Hello folks
I will be in Colorado next week and although my plans don't call for a stop 
in Denver, I would like to pick up some beers I can't get in NE.  Does 
anybody know of a *very* good liquor store in Denver or the surrounding 
areas?  I will be in Boulder and plan to stop at Liquor Mart already.
Thanks!
Matt Dinges
Lincoln, NE





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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:03:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pubs near Heathrow

Heathrow Pubs?  When I worked at the BA maintenance area at
Heathrow, we used to get a good pint over at the Green Man
in Hatton Cross.  (After work!  After work!  Er, well, mostly.)  
Tube or bus to Hatton Cross Station, then bear south/southeast.  
Details sent privately.  Check your CAMRA guide.  Good pub.

There are a couple of other nearby pubs worth note, like 
"The Pheasant" in Harlington, but they pretty much call for 
a short cab ride.  

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA
(but formerly, Staines, Middlesex, UK)



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:12:52 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Big Brew Recipes

Our own Craft brewer writes:

  "Nothing like a light and refreshing Old Ale or Maibock come June to
quench
  one thirst!

  What are they thinking!

  David B. Craft"

By the time that old ale finishes aging, it should be just the perfect time
for a winter warmer.

Brew on!

Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'"
     ~ Dave Barry

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
 with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
     ~ Galileo Galilei



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:17 -0700
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Update to No-Sparge / Batch-Sparge article & spreadsheet

I made a minor addition to the No-Sparge & Batch-Sparge article on my
web page (URL below), and made an unrelated correction in the
accompanying spreadsheet.  If you use either of these you should update
with the new versions.

- --
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com
Fermentation Chillers and more: http://www.gadgetstore.bigstep.com




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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:39:13 -0600
From: "searn" <searnl at attbi.com>
Subject: Fw: Celis Pale Bock


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
To: "searn" <searnl at attbi.com>
Cc: <janitor@hbd.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: Celis Pale Bock


>
> You need to send this to post@hbd.org.
>
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, searn wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:43:42 -0600
> > From: searn <searnl at attbi.com>
> > To: janitor@hbd.org
> > Subject: Celis Pale Bock
> >
> >     Does any one out there have an extract, or all grain clone for Celis
Pale Bock? I have been on the hunt for about 2 years now, some were close,
but not the nirvana my pallet once knew. Any help would be greatly
appreciated, thanks in advance for your time and help.
> >
> > Searn
> >
>
> --
> -
> God bless America!
>
> Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
> Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
> HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
> The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
> [18, 92.1] Rennerian
> "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
>                                   from my yeast lab Saturday
>
>
>



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---