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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Brew Stand dimensions (Bjoern.Thegeby)
  3068/Pubs Near Heathrow (AJ)
  RE: malt sack volume? ("Neitzke, Arnold")
  zinc gluconate (Alan Meeker)
  Re: Bazooka Mashing ("Wayne Holder")
  re: Stouts and Roasted Barley (Paul Kensler)
  re: pre water chiller (Paul Kensler)
  Re: Malt Sack Volume--- What I use ("Pete Calinski")
  Grain Volume and Counterflow Chillers ("Dan Listermann")
  The George Fix Memorial Guest Book ("Lutzen, Karl F.")
  Grain bed depth--thanks! ("Brian Schar")
  RE: How much room in a 5 Gallon Gott ("Steven Parfitt")
  RE: malt sack volume? (Bill Tobler)
  Maibock (j.d.luck)
  new york (Himsbrew)
  Re: malt sack volume? (Daniel Chisholm)
  Motorized Mill, Mash Tuns, and Kegs ("Charles R. Stewart")
  RE: Overnight mash gone amuck (Brian Levetzow)
  Des Moines beer culture? (Mike B)
  Call for Judges - NHC SW Region (hollen)
  Conical Fermenters ("David Hooper")
  Beer TV Special ("Eric R. Lande")


* Visit the George Fix Memorial Guest Book 
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* Entries accepted 4/1/02 - 4/11/02
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* See http://www.hbd.org/mcab for more info
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:21:39 +0100
From: Bjoern.Thegeby at cec.eu.int
Subject: Brew Stand dimensions

I am in the process of designing a brew stand, but am in short supply of
engineering 
friends. I have decided to go for a 2 1/2 tier system with liquor tank low,
mash tun on
top, draining into a kettle at the "mezzanine" level. If you did not get
that, it is the
general design of the bigger "Beer, Beer and more Beer" systems.  I have
seen a
number of systems on the web, but they seldom give rack profile dimensions.


My gut feeling would be to go with square profiles for the risers and "L"
profiles for the
horizontals framing the vessels (to keep them in place). The bottom
horizontal frame 
would be either square or rectangular, with two fixed feet and two
vertically adjustable.
The maximum width/length per vessel would be 22 inches.

I would like the system to be as light as possible, while capable of
carrying a load of
25 gallons+grain + weight of vessel. Am I total off track here, and if not,
what size 
profiles can I get away with?

Bjorn 
Waterloo
Rennerian, Schmennerian, Five miles from Lembeek


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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:57:38 +0100
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: 3068/Pubs Near Heathrow

For Pete C. Your question is a good one. Interestingly enough I happened
to be drinking a Weihenstephan mit hefe truben with a couple of
workmates the other night which ordinarily wouldn't be noteworthy except
that we were at a Schwarzwaldstube in Bangkok and the subject of the
flavor of the beer (only 1 of the four besides me knows anything about
brewing but the others are engineers) came up and, as I had just posted
on this subject I told them of my passion for beers brewed with this
strain and about the thread. A little
discussion yieded exactly the same question and, the same answer which
is "I don't
know!" I'll guess that the fraction of cells with the active gene
diminishes by some percentage at each budding. So lets assume that the
fraction is 95% and that to get to pitching quantity takes 7 (?)
buddings in the starter. The fraction of  pitched cells  that carry POF
would then be about (0.95)^7 = 0.698 (ignoring the previous generation).
Assuming 7 buddings in the fermenter, (0.698)^7 = .487 or about half of
the last group of daughters would carry POF going into a second
fermentation pitched with the crop and only 34% in a third. So I suspect
that this is basically what is at work. I have no idea whether either
95% or 7 buddings are reasonable numbers so consider them illustrative
only. I believe the accepted wisdom is that this strain should not be
repitched but note that top cropping should ameliorate the problem
somewhat as top cropped cells are earlier generations.  I believe some
weizenbieer breweries do harvest and reuse the yeast. How many times, I
don't know.

My colleagues also asked how the strain was maintained. Again, I don't know
but assume that it could be done by single cell culturing, making test
brews and retaining the yeast that give the desired result for further
culturing. In today's world there might be an agar that turns some color
(sensitive to 4VG) in the presence of yeast with the desired gene. This
would eliminate the need for test brews.

We're working with a cesium frequency standard over here. This operates by
sorting excited cesium atoms from unexcited by shooting them through a
magnetic field. We wished for such a device to sort yeast cells by POF gene!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

RE pubs near Heathrow, it occured to me that there is a Tap and Spile in
Terminal 1. I've never gone there (I just can't face beer or much of
anything else after  stepping off a red-eye) but if it is as good as
others in the chain I'd give it a shot. Their mission is to make craft
brews from small UK breweries available to the drinking public and I've
had some awfully good pints in the one in Harrogate.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:20:00 -0500
From: "Neitzke, Arnold" <Arnold.Neitzke at fanucrobotics.com>
Subject: RE: malt sack volume?

>I'm looking into options for storing grain bought in bulk
>by the sack (typically 50 lbs, I believe) and would like
>to know what is the approximate volume of a typical
>sack of malt (in gallons) so I can buy an appropriately
>sized container.  I have read the archives to see how
>others are storing their bulk grain purchases, and have
>decided on buying some plastic barrels with airtight lids.

Something I just did last night (with a 55lb sack of pils).  It filled two
and a half 5 gal pails.

It might have fit in two 6 gal pails but I didn't have any of those
available.

Arnold Neitzke
Brighton Mi


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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:10:34 -0500
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: zinc gluconate

Drew Avis asks about zinc supplements
- --------------------------------
 ...wonder if I could simply chuck a zinc
supplement tablet into the boil instead of measuring out a grain of
servomyces...  The label says "chelated zinc...
elemental zinc (zinc gluconate)" - is this usable by yeast?
- -------------------------------
Yes, you could do this. The zinc will be useable by the yeast. Three
questions to consider here. One, which supplementation method is more cost
effective? Given the price of Servomyces I quoted yesterday, it is likely
that Servo additions will be cheaper than the use of nutritional zinc
supplements. Cheaper still would be to use ZnCl2 salt itself. The second
question is whether or not the zinc provided by Servomyces is somehow in a
form more readily utilizable by the yeast. Given that it is added to the
boil this seems highly unlikely, though I haven't seen data one way or the
other concerning this point. Finally, does Servo provide additional
beneficial factors beyond just zinc. I haven't seen any data on this either.

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 05:36:18 -0800
From: "Wayne Holder" <zymie at charter.net>
Subject: Re: Bazooka Mashing

Colby asks about mashing with a Bazooka screen in a Sanke keg.

You can actually press the screen down to easily conform with the bottom of
a keg. There shouldn't be any issues with loss.

Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach CA
http://www.zymico.com



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:00:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Stouts and Roasted Barley

With all this talk of Kalamazoo stout lately, I
thought I'd pass along something I discovered...

Briess' "roasted barley" is NOT the grain you want to
use when making a stout...  what most maltsters call
roasted barley is indeed the primary special grain in
stout - in fact, you can make a damn good stout using
nothing but base malt and roasted barley.  

Briess' roasted barley is indeed heavily roasted, but
if you use a pound of it in a 5 gallon batch you'll
roasty-bitter-acidic beer (this might sound good, but
I didn't care for it - unfortunately I made two
batches of it before I discovered the culprit).  Just
off the top of my head, I think Briess' roasted barley
is around 300L, and the "real" roasted barleys are
over 500L.

Looking at Briess' web site, it looks like their
product "black barley" might be the stuff to use in
stouts - I haven't tried it yet because I've
discovered Munton's roasted barley and its the
shiznit.

Briess' roasted barley might be good in small
proportions in porters, brown ales, stouts...  any
dark beer where you want to add some roastiness or
some coffee-flavors, but its definitely a grain that
can be overdone.  I've got some at home and plan to
give it another try some time, just in much smaller
amounts.


Hope this helps somebody,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:21:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: pre water chiller

Charlie,
Ahhh, the Bluebonnet!  I used to live in Dallas, and I
remember it well...

As for pre-chillers, I once tried the same thing
(pre-chiller coil in an ice bath) with my immersion
chiller and I was pretty unsatisfied - it seemed like
I went through a lot of ice without much improvement
in the chilling.  The problem was that the hot Texas
tapwater was melting all the ice, so the ice just
didn't last long enough to chill much wort.

I eventually bought a small, portable pump (maybe $60
at Home Despot) and used it to pump ice water through
the immersion chiller after the Dallas summer tap
water brought the wort down to maybe 100 or so.

So for the first 20-30 minutes of chilling, I'd use
tap water.  Once the temperature differential was
smaller and the tap water was just not lowering the
wort temperature, I'd fill a bucket with ice and just
enough water for the pump to prime itself, then pump
the ice water through the chiller with the outflow
used a lot less ice.

Maybe if you know how much water your counterflow
chiller uses to chill a batch, you can get a tub of
the appropriate size and pump ice water through the
counterflow chiller?

Even after moving out of Texas, I still use the little
pump a lot - especially in the summer or when I want
to chill the wort way down for lagers.



Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:34 -0500
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Malt Sack Volume--- What I use

I believe a 25 kg (55 lbs) sack of malt fits in 2 plastic buckets (7
gallon), more or less.  A nearby swimming pool gets bromine (substitute for
chlorine I believe) in these buckets.  The cover screws on with a quarter
turn. It has a nice rubber gasket in the lid.  I believe they are intended
to be fairly air tight originally. I assume they still are to a certain
extent.

Hope this helps.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:52:52 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Grain Volume and Counterflow Chillers

<Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:42:25 -0500
<From: "Larry Maxwell" <larrymax at bellsouth.net>
<Subject: malt sack volume?
<
<I'm looking into options for storing grain bought in bulk
<by the sack (typically 50 lbs, I believe) and would like
<to know what is the approximate volume of a typical
<sack of malt (in gallons) so I can buy an appropriately
<sized container.

When we first opened the store we decided to store the bulk grain in
fermenter buckets.  Initially we used 6 gallon buckets, two of which worked
well for 50 pounds, but would not hold 55 pounds.  We then switched to two 7
gallon buckets.  These have always worked for 55 pounds.  Different malts
have different densities, but about 4 pounds per gallon is about average.

<Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:30:24 -0600
<From: "Charlie Walker" <charlybill at prodigy.net>
<Subject: pre water chiller for counter flow chiller<
<
  <  Hi everyone, As the temperatures rise, summer is not far away here in
<Texas. I use a counter flow wort chiller and need to make a pre-chiller for
<the water before it goes to my counterflow. As the water comes from an
above
<ground holding tank the water temps easily get into the 80 to 90 deg F
range
<during the heat of the summer. I will be using a copper tubing coil with
<garden hose connections in a bucket filled with ice to pre-chill the water.
<What I am wondering about is would 3/8" give enough volume or do I need
1/2"
<tubing and how long to drop the temp aprox 20 deg F.

A post chiller would be much more effective than trying to chill the cooling
water.  The heat removal is directly aimed at the wort itself, not the
cooling water.  Many commercial breweries have their chiller divided into
two sections with tap water doing the bulk of the work and the final cooling
accomplished with refrigerated water.  I have used an immersion chiller as a
post chiller in an ice bath following the counter flow chiller.  IIRC it
knocked 16 F off the counterflow chiller's temp.

 Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com

Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby!




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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:09:14 -0600
From: "Lutzen, Karl F." <kfl at umr.edu>
Subject: The George Fix Memorial Guest Book

For those of you who would like to write a memory of George
Fix, of leave a note, we at the HBD have set up a guest book
in memory of George. After a time, we will send the entries to 
Laurie Fix. Please go to:

     http://hbd.org/forums/index.html

and click on the George Fix Memorial Guest Book topic.

Thanks

HBD Janitors


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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:45:48 -0800
From: "Brian Schar" <schar at vimedical.com>
Subject: Grain bed depth--thanks!

Wow!  I did not expect so many helpful responses to my grain bed question of
several days ago--thanks very much to all who responded to me here in HBD
and in private email!  This is without question the most useful and helpful
mailing list I've ever been involved with.  I am looking forward to getting
started with all-grain in the near future & I will post my adventures (and
mistakes) for others to learn from when I do.  Thanks again to all!

Brian Schar
Menlo Park, CA



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:43:26 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: How much room in a 5 Gallon Gott

Started an all day mash this morning. I got 11.5 lbs of crushed malt in 
along with 3.5 gallons of water. This left around four inches of head space. 
I'd guess 13 to 14 pounds of grain would really be pushing it, and would 
require decoction to get temp steps if you were not doing a single infusion.

11.5# gives 5 gallons of 1.063 beer at 75%eff. In my case, I'm making 12 
gallons of low alcohol beer, and will have an og around 1.026

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck




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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:50:00 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: malt sack volume?

Larry asks about storing 50 lb sacks of grain.  I bought some Gamma Seal
containers from http://www.usplastic.com.  The part number and other info
is:

 75046    Granit-Stone Colored Container Holds 50 lbs    14" x 14" x 20"H
13 gal    Each    $35.80

I bought four of them.  Three for the brewery and one for the dog food.
They really work good.  You get a discount for volume.  A slightly cheaper
solution is the Gamma Seal lid.  This fits on a 5 or 7 gallon bucket and are
only about $8 each.  You can fit 23-25 pounds of grain in a 7 gallon bucket.
The item # for the bucket lid is #1860 for the blue one.  They have 5 colors
with different #'s.  I have some of these too for other grains.

Cheers

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:40:14 +0000
From: j.d.luck at att.net
Subject: Maibock


Paul Writes:

> Normally I'd agree, but being as the Maibock 
> recipe was provided by the late George Fix, I 
> for one will be brewing it in remembrance.  
> Perhaps I'll lager it over the summer and save 
> it for when the first fall chill arrives...  
> nah, who'm I kidding, I'll drink it as soon 
> as its ready!

Well, I had no plans to be involved with the Big Brew
this year, but knowing that it's George's recipe, I 
think I'll try it.  Can someone post his Maibock
recipe for us.

Thanks, and may God's blessings go with the Fix family.

 -Jeff Luck
Salt Lake City, UT
Having a wonderful wine.  Wish you were beer.




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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:43:37 EST
From: Himsbrew at aol.com
Subject: new york 

on april 4th I will be in new york city for the
first time, to participate in the tunes of glory 
bagpipe parade(10,000 pipers!).
 I will be staying at the milford plaza on 45th&8th
(near time square I am told).
any sugestions for a good brew pub or Irish pub 
within walking distance?
thanks for the pointers..
jim cuny-Green bay wi
himsbrew at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:27:52 -0400
From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: malt sack volume?

Since I don't have an accurate scale in the correct range for most of my
brews, I figure on a specific gravity (?) of 0.56 (units: kg per litre,
which ought to be the same as pounds per US pint (16 fl oz)) and measure
my grain by volume.

I use an 11.4 litre (==2.5 Imp Gal, 3.0 US Gal) ice cream bucket and a
2L ice cream container - I figure I can measure volumes within a half
litre using these.

E.g., if I need 18 pounds of base malt, that's (18#/2.2lbs/kg) 8.2 kg. 
This will occupy a volume of 14.6 litres (=8.2kg/0.56).  "Close enough
for Government work", this is one big bucket (11.4 litres) plus a full
small one (2L), plus a bit more than half a small one (1+).

I read somewhere that a standard bushel of grain is deemed to be 42 lbs,
and that many commercial breweries measure their grain by volume and not
weight, in order to compensate for moisture variations.  This worked out
to be a bit different than my figure of 0.56 (which I arrived at by
measuring my own grain), but not much.  I use 0.56 because I can
remember it, and can't remember what 42 lbs/bushel works out to... ;-)

Converting my figure of "0.56 kilograms per litre" to English/US units,
you'd have US Gals vol = (lbs/2.2)/(3.78*0.56) = lbs/4.66, or lbs. *
0.21.  Multiply pounds of grain by 0.21 to get gallons of grain.

Running this through, a 50 lb. sack of grain would occupy 50*.21 = 10.5
US Gal volume (or ~40 litres).

Since 0.21 is pretty darn close to one fifth, it may also be a good
enough approximation to use the figure of five pounds per gallon.

(FWIW, I find that crushing my malt increases its volume (10-20%?)).


- -- 
 - Daniel
Fredericton, NB  Canada


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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:33:48 -0500
From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com>
Subject: Motorized Mill, Mash Tuns, and Kegs

Paul Kensler was recently asking about motorizing his grain mill.  When I
bought my Valley Mill, I began looking for an appropriate motor for it.  I
was considering purchasing a right-angled gear reduction motor.  In the
meanwhile, I used my Makita cordless drill.  After using it a few times, I
realized the Makita worked very well, and had a few advantages, mainly it's
portability and weight.  It's nice to be able to mill outside and not have
to worry about running extension cords, etc.  The only obstacle to overcome
was the lack of a trigger lock, and a rubber band took care of that.

There has also been much talk of late about mashing vessels.  I'm very happy
with my Coleman 52qt. (49 liter) ice chest with slotted CPVC manifold.  I've
mashed up to 45 lbs. (20kg) grain on several occasions without any problems
(well, almost, but pumpkin ale is SUPPOSED to stick, right?).  The grain bed
depths of nearly 12 inches (30cm) have not been a problem in the least.  And
the thermal stability has been great - I haven't lost more than a degree or
two over a 90 minute mash.  I've got pix of it on my web site
(http://Charles.TheStewarts.com), and will try to update them later.

Finally, I've come across a few 2.5 gal ball-lock kegs recently.  They're
great for splitting 5 gal. batches, and are perfect for taking on the go.
Before I put them up on my site, I thought I'd offer them to HBD'ers first,
and as usual, donate $2 from the sale of each keg to the server fund.  I've
put up a picture at http://charles.thestewarts.com/2galkeg.jpg.  Please
e-mail me if you'd like one, and don't forget to let me know you're a HBD'er
so I can make the donation.

Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section
227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee of US$500.00.  The sending or
forwarding of such e-mail constitutes acceptance of these terms.



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:28:09 -0500
From: Brian Levetzow <levetzowbt at comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Overnight mash gone amuck

Jerome Peirick demonstrates that even after simmering his mash at 350F 
in the oven overnight for 6 hours, a good beer is on the horizon.  Then 
states:

>Mind you, I don't intend to continue this practice...

Are you crazy?!

Please repeat this process, but next time, toss in some hops, sparge, 
skip the boil (you're not extracting hop bitterness anyway at this
point), and ferment.  Maybe pick a recipe that you still have in bottles
so you can compare hop efficiency between a standard batch, and the 
batch brewed under this new method.

If this works, I nominate the following alliterative nomenclature for 
this brewing method: 

"The Peirick Praxis"

- -- 
+++++++++++++++
Brian Levetzow
~
Laurel, MD
[425.7, 118.5] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:55:47 -0600
From: Mike B <mikebrx at swbell.net>
Subject: Des Moines beer culture?

Greetings,
I will find myself in Des Moines this coming Saturday. Can anyone offer any
suggestions on a place for a good pint or two? Private e-mails welcome.
Thanks
Mike
St Louis, MO



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:05:28 -0800
From: hollen at woodsprite.com
Subject: Call for Judges - NHC SW Region



Second Call For Judges and Stewards

		   American Homebrewers Association
	      First Round National Homebrew Competition
			Southwest Region 2002

Friday   April 19 6pm  St. Dunstans Episcopal Church, San Diego, CA
Saturday April 20 9am  St. Dunstans Episcopal Church, San Diego, CA
Friday   April 26 6pm  TBD, San Diego, CA
Saturday April 27 9am  TBD, San Diego, CA

Please Enter Online at http://www.softbrew.com/ahanhc/

Directions to St. Dunstan's on the web site.

Once you register, you will be Emailed asking which days you can judge.

Dion Hollenbeck,  Judge Coordinator
hollen at woodsprite.com

Antoinette Hodges, Organizer
ahodges at cts.com



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:22:40 -0800
From: "David Hooper" <DHooper at kc.rr.com>
Subject: Conical Fermenters

I use the Minibrew plastic conical fermenter and have really been happy with
it. It has a place in the lid for a bubbler, but you really don't need it.
The lid is big, easy to take off, and it is easy to clean. I don't use it
for bottling like they suggest. I still go to a bottling bucket. It is
really a lot easier than going to a second fermenter. The stand is secure
and won't tip over. The only thing I don't like about it is that it stands
too high for my basement. I'd rather have one that is wider. No big deal,
though.
David Hooper
DHooper at kc.rr.com
http://pages.prodigy.net/david_hooper



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:51:52 -0500
From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Beer TV Special

In HBD #3871 Nils Hedglin gets all our hopes up about the Food TV show
"Good Eats" on Wednesday March 13 (today) with the following post:    

>There's a special coming up on the Food TV Network in mid-March.  It's
>part of Alton Brown's Good Eats series.  It's scheduled to be on Wed Mar
>13th at 6 & 9PM Pacific time.  The description is below:
>Amber Waves of Grain
>Back in '76, President Jimmy Carter made it legal for us to brew 200
gallons
>of our own beer each year. Still, most of us would rather crack open a
can
>of mass market semi suds than take matters into our own hands. Too bad,
>since AB says brewing at home is more fun than rocket science (if you
can
>imagine) and a heck of a lot better tasting.

I watched the Good Eats show tonight (with a couple of Double Bocks) at
9pm Eastern time (which for those of you in trailer parks whom this show
was aimed at coincides with 6pm Pacific time) and it had less than
nothing to do with beer.  The title of the show was something like "Chuck
for Chuck" and featured Alton Brown making a pot roast in a trailer
(complete with aluminum foil satalite dish) in a trailer park.  Now,
while I have nothing against trailer parks, I had guests over to watch
the beer/brewing episode and, guess what, it never happened.  In fact, I
can't even find a show with that name any where on the schedule on the
FoodTv. com web site.  Thanks Nils!  Let me know when Mickey Mouse is
going to the moon.

Eric Lande
Doylestown, PA


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