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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Iodophore Stain Removal (Al Klein)
  Secondary fermentation inactivity (Al Klein)
  Dark Bitter Malts (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Montreal Homebrewers Club (John Misrahi)
  Re: Conical 10 Gallon was Re:10 gallon cornies (Bill Wible)
  10 gallon cornie conversion to a conical fermenter (Gene Collins)
  pacific northwest brewpubs ("Matt vonBuchler")
  re: oxidized wort ("Steve Alexander")
  Where is PBS? (Randy Barnes)
  re: Moving Brews news (Paul Kensler)
  Klein again ("James Sploonta")
  Dry Hop Utilization (Jeff Hertz)
  False bottom height (John Schnupp)


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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:46:21 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Iodophore Stain Removal

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:10:07 -0500, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote:

Fred L. Johnson asks:

>If I don't get help soon, my wife may kill me.  If I have to get new
>flooring (and we needed it anyway), does anyone have recommendations of a
>resistant material?  Polyurethane finished hardwood?

Would work, but it would need refinishing regularly.  Polyurethane
isn't the bast finish to walk on.  Bowling Alley Finish (it's a brand
name) is tougher.

>  Tile?

Stone would be best but tile would work - as long as it was non-porous
or you kept it finished (there's finish for tile) - or both.  But
glazed tile is very slippery when wet, so it's not such a good idea
for a kitchen.

>  Perhaps just something darker than white would be helpful.

It would hide the stains.  It's like making a 1.11 beer to hide
errors.

Any chance of moving the brewing operation to the garage, THEN getting
your wife a new kitchen floor?
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:46:20 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Secondary fermentation inactivity

Micah Anderson asked:

>We moved everything into the
>secondaries and the lager took off bubbling the airlock, the nut brown and
>porter were silent. Almost a week later, the nut brown and the porter still
>haven't bubbled the airlock. Did we loose our yeast somehow? We pretty much
>did everything the same, sanititzed everything... should we just be patient?

If the beer finished fermenting in primary you won't get any airlock
activity in secondary.  Take a SG reading - that'll tell you whether
it's finished, stuck or what.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:51:29 +1100 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Sun.COM>
Subject: Dark Bitter Malts

Hi Guys,

Just a quick note on the Dark malt thread. 

Wyeremann Carafa Spec III is just about the best dark malt I have
ever used. It is dehusked and gives a deep dark profile with
no hint of bitterness.

As a test chew on a few grains of the malt and do the same for
roast barley or Patent malt. The quality of the malt is without 
peer.

I am sure that St Pats or Northern brewer can supply in the USA
or myself in Oz.

rgds,

Scotty

Ocean Brewing Co.
sales at onlinebrewing.com







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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:36:02 -0800
From: John Misrahi <Lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Montreal Homebrewers Club

Hello All. Some fellow brewers and I are trying to form a homebrewers
club here in Montreal, QC , Canada. We were surprised to learn that
while there was one some years back, there no longer is. We want to be
fairly informal with regular (monthly?) meetings for the sharing of
ideas and tastings etc.. but no dues, minutes etc..
We would have our first few meetings at a local brewpub (Brutopia or
maybe Cheval Blanc etc..) and then at the home of one of the members.

So if you are interested, please email me and I will add you to our
mailing list if you wish

thank you
John





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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:17:09 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Conical 10 Gallon was Re:10 gallon cornies

>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:07:04 -0800
>From: "badger" <badger at badger.cx>
>Subject: Conical 10 Gallon was Re:10 gallon cornies

>I hadn't considered this kind of mod to them, and I am curious as to what
>the cost of getting this modification done might range?

I couldn't tell you.  People either have it done by a service,
or they know a welder who does it.  Maybe check with SABCO, or
one of the companies that specialize in that.  I wouldn't imagine
it's cheap, maybe a couple hundred dollars.  But it would have to
be cheaper that buying a new conical.

>And to open a potential kettle of fish..  What benefits do you get from a
>conical fermentor anyway?  is it just the ability to drop the yeast/gunk out
>the bottom, and keep fermenting (ie: secondary) in the same container?

Yeah, this probably will open a can of worms.

There are advantages and disadvantages to using conicals.  The big advantage
is the ability to remove the yeast from the beer, not the other way around,
so there's no racking, and along with that, less chance of aeration or
oxidation.  It's also more convenient to do everything in one container.

There are also quite a few disadvantages.  One is that due to the high
cost of a conical, most people who have them only have one.  If it's tied
up for 3 weeks at a time (for ale) and you only have one, you can't brew
another batch.  If you're going to tie it up with a lager, that might
take 8 - 10 weeks.  Same problem the big boys have - planning and allocating
tank space.  Another problem is controlling the fermentation temperature.
Glycol units can be purchased or added on, but they're not cheap.  And a
10 gallon conical likely won't fit in any fridge that one of us has.
They're also difficult to clean.

I've seen this plastic conical called the V vessel.  It's a plastic
5 or 6 gallon conical vessel, and it comes with brackets to hang it
on your wall.  It retails for just under $200, which seems expensive
for a plastic container.  You ferment in it, and do everything in one
container without racking.  Anybody using one of these?  I undertand
you can't bottle out of it, so you still have to do at least one
transfer.

Personally, I think the disadvantages of conical fermenters outweigh the
advantages, but a conical fermenter is just a really cool toy, and almost
every brewer I know wants one, or thinks they do. It's the way the big boys
do it, and it's something most of us think we'd like to have.

It's the same way the wine makers all think they want oak barrels, without
realizing there is a ton of maintenance to owning and using a barrel, and it
doesn't necessarily mean you'll get better wine.  These guys all get great
wine the first year, then can't understand why it turns to vinegar the
second year on - after they haven't cleaned or sanitized it once.

Just my 2 cents.   

Bill
- --------------------------
Brew By You    
3504 Cottman Ave.
Philadelphia, PA 19149
215-335-BREW (PA)
215-335-0712 (Fax)
www.brewbyyou.net
- ---------------------------




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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:54:10 -0600
From: Gene Collins <GCollins at cranecarrier.com>
Subject: 10 gallon cornie conversion to a conical fermenter

What an idea...using a 10 gal. cornie for a conical fermenter! What luck! I
happened to acquire one for FREE! This size would even fit in my
refrigerator for temperature control.

Does anyone have any drawings for making the cone section and is 45 degrees
still the accepted "perfect angle"?

Gene Collins
Broken Arrow, OK



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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:23:13 +0500
From: "Matt vonBuchler" <trichrome79 at hotmail.com>
Subject: pacific northwest brewpubs

hi. i'm new to the list so forgive me if this has already been asked 100's 
of times ;)
i'm going to be traveling the west coast and i wanted some recommendations 
for quality brewpubs in portland, seattle, and vancouver,BC....   thanks!



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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:48:30 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: oxidized wort

Phil writes ...

>Also
>interestingly, Jeff Irvine claimed when he was out here that if someone
else
>would go to the bother of producing the wort, he would be quite happy to
>spend his days simply experimenting with the ferment.

One of the nice, no ... great things about brewing is that it's as simple as
pie - but the inherent depth and complexity of the process is stunning.  You
could spend years playing with just one aspect of the ferment, or hopping or
malting or mash schedule ...and have a beer or two while doing so.

>In one beer produced from a wort kit I detected
>some slight oxidization flavours.

Not surprising - there is a note in one of the books about a British malting
company shipping liquid malt extract to the Caribbean for locally made
beers.  The temperature plays havoc with the concentrated LME and it
"browns" readily.   How much of that is oxidation vs caramelization vs
Maillard reactions is unclear but there is apparent flavor damage.  It's
probably fine when fresh - but time and temps are enemies of the liquid
stuff.  The dry extract is usually a little darker to begin with but I
*suspect* suffers less damage in it's dry state.

You Ozzies and your 100F January temps  .... what were you thinking about
 ... Novemberbock or Aprilfest was it ?  All screwed up you know.

 -Steve




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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:13:40 -0800
From: Randy Barnes <rbarnes at sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Where is PBS?

Fellow Brewers,

I'm having trouble contacting Precision Brewing Systems on their web page
(www.pbsbeer.com). 
Does anyone know the status of the company, a phone number, or another
source for a MaxiChiller?

Thanks,
Randy Barnes
San Diego, CA


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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:24:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Moving Brews news

Neil,
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, and I certainly
don't speak for or represent Moving Brews...  but I do
belong to the same homebrew club as the owner, Bill. 
I saw him last weekend and asked him about his
business plans, and he said that his day job is really
hectic right now (thus the "winter break") and any
changes in Moving Brews status would happen after
April.

I know this doesn't help much...


Take care,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:53:55 -0500
From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com>
Subject: Klein again

3/18/02: Brick Red Cap Ale.

"This may seem like an understated ale, so pay attention to it- its sincere 
demeanor will make you content and happy."

Um, Steve? Whimsical descriptive language, or rubbish?



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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:13:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hertz <duckinchicago at yahoo.com>
Subject: Dry Hop Utilization

I just had a quick question for the collective.  I
know that as far as boiling hops, utilization
decreases as OG (or SG)increases, but is this true as
far as dry hops go as well?  In other words, do I need
to use more dry hops to get a good aroma in a high
gravity beer than I would need in a lower one?  This
assumes that you are adding the hops to an already
attenuated beer in the secondary, so really the final
gravity shouldn't be drastically different from what a
"normal" gravity beer would be.  Reason being, I made
a rather strong IPA (1.079-I know this is pretty much
Barleywine strength) and want to dry hop it to get a
nice Cascade aroma, but I'm not sure if I need to use
a lot more hops.  
Any opinions on this??

Jeff Hertz
Glen Ellyn, IL 



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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:44:23 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: False bottom height

I've been playing around with some modifications to my mash tun.  I use a 10
gallon Gott.  I also use the "stock" hole and grommet for my outlet.  My
current false bottom is on legs that keeps it above the outlet.  The problem
with this is that there is about 1 gallon of underlet water needed.  I would
like to reduce the distance from the bottom of the tun to the false bottom.

My question, is there a minimum?  If I used 3/8" this would put the false
bottom just below the outlet hole.  The cooler is about 12.5" in diameter, this
converts to about .2 gallon.  I'm concerned that this volume might be a little
too small.

The second project I'm working on is a manifold.  Actually I started the
manifold first but is will be a whole lot easier to just drop the false bottom.
 If I complete the false bottom I will use it with my RIMS (when I get that
complete).  When calculating "open" area, is it a simple ratio of area of
tun/area of holes?  I want to make sure I can get a sufficient flow rate.


=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee



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