---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  light-struck beer (ensmingr)
  Conicals (John Maylone)
  Barley Wine Ale (Brewmiker)
  fermentation temperature/ concerned brewer (leavitdg)
  Re: Einen Kleinen (Steven S)
  Attn Steven Alexander -  Question on decoction mashing ("RJ")
  question: diacetyl rest after bottling lager? (Darrell.Leavitt)
  Server Fund ("Charles R. Stewart")
  Re: Fermentation Temps & Yeast Abuse ("Dennis Collins")
  Re: Jugulone Hop Tolerance (Jeff Renner)
  Any suggestions on how to kill yeast? (Ross Cohn)
  Baltic Porter ("Jerry Sadowski")
  Re: Baltic Porter (alastair)
  Wyeast Seasonal Yeast (Bill Wible)
  The search for 2002 rhizomes ("Daron Kallan")
  baltic porters ("Czerpak, Pete")
  bifenthrin/japanese beetles ("Mike Racette")
  mash-lauter tun ("Marvin Schiedermayer")
  Experimental Brewing Techniques (Ray Daniels)
  Sleep Easy Steve, But  Say A Prayer For Me ("Phil Yates")
  Munton's marris otter pale ale malt ("Doug Moyer")
  Clearfine Finning ("Brian M Dotlich")
  Filtering brew water (Al Klein)
  Pre Fermentation and other oxidations. (Al Klein)
  Grassy Cascade & Liberty Ale (Al Klein)
  Light-struck Beer (Al Klein)
  Concerned Brewer (Al Klein)
  Weizen as a first batch ("Mike Brennan")
  MCAB-IV Entry Deadline Extended ("Chuck Bernard")
  RE: Yeast Starter/bifenthrin/hops poles ("Steve Alexander")
  Belgian Beers and yeast culturing... ("Ira Edwards")
  Guinness Pigs (John Varady)


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:16:47 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: light-struck beer

A HBD'r recently asked "... what type of light causes skunkiness
in beer? Incandescent or fluorescent? Would the red bulbs used in
photographic dark rooms have the same affect?"

UV and blue light are the worst. In this part of the spectrum,
incandescent light typically has less output than fluorescent.
However, there is great diversity in the spectral output of
fluorescent lights. There's warm white, cool white, and many
others. Red light would have little or no effect on beer
skunkiness.

For the more technically minded HBD'rs ...
1. Look at:
http://home.twcny.rr.com/geomanagement/ensmingr/menagerie.html#a07
 .
2. See the recent article (abstracted from MedLine below):
- ---
J Agric Food Chem 2002 Mar 13;50(6):1548-52
Role of riboflavin in beer flavor instability: determination of
levels of riboflavin and its origin in beer by fluorometric
apoprotein titration.

Duyvis MG, Hilhorst R, Laane C, Evans DJ, Schmedding DJ.

Laboratory of Biochemistry, Wageningen University and Research
Center, Dreijenlaan 3, 6703HA Wageningen, The Netherlands.

A method for the quantitative determination of riboflavin levels
in beer was developed. The method is based on the quenching of
riboflavin fluorescence, which occurs when riboflavin binds to
the aporiboflavin-binding protein from egg white. The method does
not require any pretreatment of the beer before analysis, other
than dilution, and proved to be simple, reliable, and sensitive.
The lowest concentration that could be detected was approximately
10 nM riboflavin. The possible interference of flavin
mononucleotide (FMN) and flavin adenine dinucleotide (FAD) with
the determination of the riboflavin content of beer was excluded,
because beer contains only a very small amount of FAD (0.03
microM) and no FMN. The riboflavin levels of the types and brands
of beer investigated were in the range of 0.5-1.0 microM. The
origin of the riboflavin in beer proved to be the malt. Hop and
yeast hardly contributed to the riboflavin content of beer.
Besides its use in the determination of riboflavin levels, the
aporiboflavin-binding protein also provides a way to remove
riboflavin from beer, which reduces the light sensitivity and the
related lightstruck off-flavor formation in beer.
- ---

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY




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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:23:19 -0800
From: John Maylone <mrkoala at mac.com>
Subject: Conicals


Larry Bristol, <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> notes:

>Re: Conicals

> you are NOT going to get a ready to use s/s conical
> fermenter for $87!  You would need some holes cut and some valves
> added, and s/s is not the easiest material with which to work.  From
> what I read, however, that company will do some/a lot/all of that for
> you, but I did not see price information on that aspect.  If someone
> gives this a try, I surely would like to hear the story!

This is what TMS quoted me for modifying their conical hoppers:

Cut out bottom or drill hole             = $30 ($5  each / $25 setup*)
Weld customer supplied ferrule or nipple = $80 ($30 each / $50 setup*)

*Setup charges divided by the number of units ordered.

An alternative to the expense of welding would be to invest in a stepdrill
bit and go to a place like www.bobbrews.com that carries Zymico weldless
hardware.  If you do that, the big problem you're left with is making a
suitable stand for your conical.

But as Brian Lundeen, <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>, notes, "brewers who are serious
about improving their beers will spend their money on temperature control
before buying a conical."

After wrestling with "to buy or not to buy" conical, I'm inclined to agree
with Brian.....with the super hot summers we get here, I'd be wise to go
that route first.

Regards,

John Maylone
Tollhouse, CA




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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:49:30 EST
From: Brewmiker at aol.com
Subject: Barley Wine Ale

I have been fermenting a Barley Wine Ale for about three and a half months 
and I think it's about played out. I want to bottle this in 7 oz. bottles. I 
have never so thoroughly fermented a beer before and am worried that there is 
no live yeast left for carbonation. What would be the best way to ensure I 
get some carbonation in this beer? Although I have the ability to keg beer, I 
don't have the equipment to bottle from my keg.

Mike Mullins
Lapeer, MI


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:36:28 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: fermentation temperature/ concerned brewer

Caryl;

  If you don't want to spend a lot, and have the place in your house 
where it can reside without consternation to your wife/spouse/SHE....
Purchase a new plastic trash can.  Fill it 1/4 way up with 68 F water
(or whatever temp you are shooting for) then after the carboy starts 
fermenting...and when only a few degrees warmer...place the carboy into
the trashcan...I think a few degrees change per day is ok...and have
found that the large amount of water resists the normal ambient 
temperature variations...You can add hot water to raise temp...add
ice to drop temp...Get an indoor/outdoor thermometer to make it real
professional...

 .Darrell 


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:07:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: Re: Einen Kleinen


I've actually got a Klein book, not for the flowery prose but instead the
pictures of the beer.

There is actually a good basis for this "style" of reviewing. Many credit
J Gordon Holt for bringing it to the masses when he started Stereophile
magazine way back in the fog of history. He felt the need for the magazine
to describe in words what reviewers heard.

One of my favorites is

http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?292:2

"Maura O'Connell's Wandering Heart (Hannibal HNCD 1410) makes a good case
for the No.39's strengths. Her voice is unusually rich and vibrant, yet
powerful at the same time. It has a richly layered complexity not unlike
the taste of a fine Islay malt, a taste that can initially be overwhelming-but
relax, and that first intensity is replaced with successive revelations of
smoky warmth, then a hint of sea iodine and salt, followed by herbs and
wildflowers that linger on the tongue. With McConnell, the initial
strength of her delivery is supported by a smoky warmth of its own, and
her intelligence and empathy also linger in the ear long after the song is
over. That's how she sounds live-and it's how she sounds on the No.39. On
some CD players that strength comes across as a touch of hardness, and the
flowering subtleties are obscured in the digital opacity that our friend
Fremer rails against every month."

I dont know if we just heard a description of a song or something out of
Klein's books. Hard to think he is reviewing a expensive cd player.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Steven St.Laurent  				403forbidden.net
steven at 403forbidden.net  			[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _






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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:24:41 -0500
From: "RJ" <rjdn4 at msn.com>
Subject: Attn Steven Alexander -  Question on decoction mashing


Hi Steve (& Everyone),

I just finally finished reading Steve's article on decoction mashing in
Zymurgy. Every time that I read about decoction mashing everything sounds
great, except there's this one tiny little thing that always BUGS me.

Every article, including yours, Steve, talks about the method as being a way
to "step" mash before thermometers and that makes sense.

But, what doesn't make sense, is that you all state that the decoction(s) is
pulled and then
held at 158F for so many minutes and then brought to a boil for so many more
minutes. This is then added back to the mash to raise the whole amount to
temperature X.

Okay, so here's the question:
If they didn't have thermometers, how'd they know when they were at the
first rest
of 158F, prior to boiling the decoction?

What did they do, stick a willow branch in it and watch it curl or what?
I'd would really like to know.

Ciao,
RJ
Lakes Region of NH


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:26:50 -0500
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: question: diacetyl rest after bottling lager?

I know that a diacetyl rest at the end of fermentation is generally called
for with a lager/pilsner..
but I wonder...could this rest be performed after bottling?

 ..Darrell



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:35:09 -0500
From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com>
Subject: Server Fund

So this is what Pat has been doing with the server fund?!?!?

http://www.powerpage.org/gallery/2002_tokyo/3/Pages/Image6.html

Also, I LOVE George Daher's conical setup!  I was looking at the stainless
tank from Toledo Metal Spinning, but really like the idea of being able to
see inside (the yeast level, etc.).  I'm currently using a polyethylene tank
(albeit with a flat bottom) and and have been very happy with it.  The
wheels are a nice touch, too.  And what a bargain!  Just go to
http://www.usplastic.com/ and search for 8551 (NAANYASC - No affiliation,
and not yet a satisified customer).

Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section
227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee of US$500.00.  The sending or
forwarding of such e-mail constitutes acceptance of these terms.



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:35:16 -0500
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Re: Fermentation Temps & Yeast Abuse

First:  Caryl Hornberger expresses some concern over the coming Indiana
summer temps on the quality of his beer.

Rightly so Caryl.  High fermentation temps can have a significant impact on
the taste of your beer.  In fact, controlling the fermentation temp has had
the biggest impact on the quality of my beer than almost anything else.
Fortunately, the homebrewing community has been hard at work solving these
problems for you and I.  The solutions range from rocket science to chewing
gum and duct tape and are certainly NOT limited to the following:

1)  Use an upright or chest freezer with a secondary temperature controller.
Many people have opted for this option, but it demands room, electricity,
and money.

2)  Use a garbage can with water in it.  Set the carboy inside and place 2
liter frozen jugs of ice into the water.  Rotate out the jugs every couple
days.  This is a fairly cheap option.

3)  Put a wet T-shirt over the carboy and point a fan at it.  Re-wet the
T-shirt when it dries out.  This is the duct tape and chewing gum approach.

4)  My favorite option is the "Son of Fermentation Chiller" designed by Ken
Schwartz.  You can either buy one of Ken's kits
(http://www.gadgetstore.bigstep.com) or build it yourself
(http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/chiller/chiller.html).  It's a box made
from 2" rigid foam insulation with a thermostat and a small fan the
circulates air over frozen ice jugs that get rotated out every couple of
days.  It keeps a very precise temperature.  I built one myself and it works
wonderfully.  I've got some photos of it at
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com under the "gadgets" section.  In a 75 F
room, you can maintain any temperature down to 50 F inside the chiller with
no problem so you can ferment lagers or ales even in the heat of summer.


Second:  Bravo for Domenick Venezia's dissertation on yeast abuse!
(http://www.primetab.com/yeaststarter.html).  Abuse is definitely easier
than pampering.  For anyone who is put off by the tediousness of yeast
starters, this is good reading.

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com




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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:36:51 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Jugulone Hop Tolerance

"Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com>asked:

>Does anyone know if hop rhizomes are jugulone tolerant (ie...Black walnut
>tolerant)  I have some black walnuts in the back, but would like to grow
>some hop vines.  Please let me know if anyone else has had any experience
>with walnut trees and hops....

My hops grow vigorously less than 20 feet from a young (6" diameter 
at breast height) black walnut (Juglans nigra), but not actually 
under its branches.  It's often said that the roots of a tree extend 
about as far as its branches, and the roots of a black walnut give 
off juglone.

This info from http://www.ppdl.purdue.edu/ppdl/expert/Juglone.html :

"The largest concentration of juglone and hydrojuglone (converted to 
juglone by sensitive plants) occur in the walnut's buds, nut hulls, 
and roots. However, leaves and stems do contain a smaller quantity. 
Juglone is poorly soluble in water and thus does not move very far in 
the soil.

"Small amounts of juglone are released by live roots. Therefore, some 
sensitive plants may tolerate the amount of juglone present in the 
soil near a black walnut tree, but may not survive direcly under its 
canopy. Also, decaying roots still relase juglone, toxicity can 
persist for some years after a tree is removed."

This site has more good juglone info, though not about hops.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:46:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Ross Cohn <artnculture at yahoo.com>
Subject: Any suggestions on how to kill yeast?

Hi,
I'm new to this list and finally came up with a
question to post:  I have a 6 Gallon Demijohn filled
with Elderberry Mead that i would like to bottle
soonand I have a problem:  

My problem is, I cannot find a way to kill the yeast! 


I took three bottles out as test samples, the one that
we didn't drink I added more honey to for taste and it
seems to have triggered fermentation again! Even after
freezing it, the yeast came back strong.

 I don't want to put any additives into the mix (it's
all natural, including lemon juice to boost the acid
level when we pitched), so I am looking for a natural
way to kill it off, so there are no "bombs" when I add
more honey.

Best Wishes
R.



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:43:53 -0600
From: "Jerry Sadowski" <jsadow1 at msn.com>
Subject: Baltic Porter

Greg Remake asked about this style (?)
In the May/June 2000 issue of Zymurgy, The Brewer's Favorite Column by Amahl 
Turczyn talks about Fred Eckhardt's favorite, Dojlidy Polski Porter.  There 
is a recipe.  Also, Al Korzonas, who is Lithuanian, has an extract recipe 
for a very big Baltic Porter in his book, Homebrewing, Vol. 1.

Jerry Sadowski
Crete, IL



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:57:33 -0800 (PST)
From: alastair <alastair at odin.he.net>
Subject: Re: Baltic Porter

Greg Remake asked about 'Baltic Porter':

The simplest way to make a Baltic Porter recipe is to take a recipe
for a Robust Porter and multiply all the ingredients by 1.5.
Alternatively, you could use this recipe which came out great!

Baltic Honey Porter
- -------------------

This recipe produces an intensely chocolaty beer with a rich dark
complexity when aged in excess of a year. Enjoy it as is, or blend
it with your best mild and English brown ales to produce a whole
range of porter variations.

Stats: 5 gallon batch, 1.102 OG, 1.025 FG, 48 SRM, 55 IBU

10 lb	English 2-Row Pale Malt
2 lb	Dark Munich Malt
1 lb 	Victory Malt
1/2 lb	Dark (75L) Crystal Malt
1/4 lb	Special 'B' Malt
1/2 lb	Chocolate Malt
1 lb	Black Patent Malt

2 lb	Honey (do not boil)

2 oz	Cluster FWH

1 tsp	Calcium Carbonate

'Irish' ale yeast (reuse yeast slurry from a previous batch).

Mash-in 6 gallons of liquor to maintain a single rest of 155 F
for 75 minutes. Lauter, sparge then boil for 90 minutes, adding
hops as noted. When cooled, dissolve honey directly into fresh
wort and ferment in primary at 55-58 F for three weeks. Secondary
below 60 F for 3-4 months and allow to age for at least a year
before serving.



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:42:46 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Wyeast Seasonal Yeast


Just found out about this yeast.  It's a Wyeast seasonal/
limited availability yeast that is mighty interesting.
Read the first line of the description and see if you
can guess where this yeast might have come from...

3864 - Canadian/Belgian Style yeast
>From a Canadian brewery which produces many styles of
classic Belgian beers.  Mild phenolics, which increase
with increased fermentation temperature.  Low ester profile
with with a dry, slightly tart finish.  Complex and well
balanced, alcohol tolerant.
Flocculation: medium   Apparent Attenuation: 75-79%
65-80F

My guess is that this is one of Unibroue's yeasts, since
they are about the only Canadian Brewery I know of that
produces many styles of classic Belgian beers.
The trick is to figure out which yeast it is.

Anybody know?

Bill
- --------------------------
Brew By You    
3504 Cottman Ave.
Philadelphia, PA 19149
215-335-BREW (PA)
215-335-0712 (Fax)
www.brewbyyou.net
- ---------------------------




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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:57:20 -0800
From: "Daron Kallan" <daron.kallan at kalllnet.com>
Subject: The search for 2002 rhizomes

Hello everybody,

I am searching for three varieties of hop rhizomes to complete this
year's crop.  I have already ordered the easier-to-find varieties from
Freshops, but I cannot seem to find Magnum, Simcoe and Warrior.  Of
these three, the last two seem particularly difficult to locate.  Does
anyone have any information on who might carry Magnum, Simcoe and/or
Warrior rhizomes?

Thanks in advance,
Daron Kallan
El Dorado Hills, CA




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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:11:31 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: baltic porters

Greg asks about baltic porters.  Heavyweight Brewing in NJ makes a very nice
baltic porter that I have had in bottles called Perkunos Hammer.  There is
some info on the website about it.  

Recommendations for brewing it include using large portions of vienna and
munich malts.  Nice darkness comes from carafa malts and possibly brown
malts.  I would avoid the highly colored dark malts like normal roasted,
chocolate, and patent to avoid the astringent type bitterness that comes
with them.  All hopping via traditional noble varieties with not much aroma
hops present to my nose (something like 30-40 IBU perhaps).  Clean malty
bavarian lager yeast suggested.  I have considered using a kolsch yeast at
low temps like 58-60F to try and avoid lagering to make a  steam baltic
porter - I just finished the secondary of a steam Schwatzbier using the
Whitelabs Kolsch at the above cool temperatures that seems quite malty and
clean with very low esters.

Good luck,
Pete Czerpak
albany, NY


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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:58:16 -0700
From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com>
Subject: bifenthrin/japanese beetles

Why not try some beneficial nematodes instead. They really do work and can
be quite inexpensive if you shop around. Just do a search on the web, there
are plenty of suppliers. You need to apply as soon as soil temps reach 50F
and before the adults start emerging.



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:18:49 -0600
From: "Marvin Schiedermayer" <concepttocstmr at tds.net>
Subject: mash-lauter tun


Could someone please provide input (comments, suggestions, etc.) on the use
of a combination mash / lauter tun. I presently mash in a 36 qt canning pot
and maintain temp by putting this into a well insulated enclosure. That all
works well bu increasing the temp of the mash with this method is a bit of a
chore. I put the pot onto an LP burner and stir the mash with a paddle to
keep it from scorching. It still sometimes scorches and achieving a uniform
temp of the mash is difficult. I would like to increase the temp of the mash
in the combo tun by heating the tun on the burner and circulating the hot
wort from the bottom tap back to the top of the grain bed.

Are there preferrable methods?

Marv Schiedermayer



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:55:39 -0600
From: Ray Daniels <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Experimental Brewing Techniques

Hello all. I'm looking for contributors for the September/October Special
issue of Zymurgy which focuses on specialty and experimental brewing
techniques.


Do you lager on oak chips? Age in a whiskey barrel? Blend beer and wine to
make unique beers?


Have you perfected the art of adding hops to the mash? Use Juniper boughs
for lautering? Finally nailed a recipe using real oysters?


Have you aged a beer in the crawl space of your house or the sub-hull of
your boat? Do you masticate your grains before brewing!? Have you isolated
your own indigenous wild yeast for spontaneous fermentations?


If you have done any of this---or anything off-beat or unusual in terms of
brewing techniques---I want to hear from you! Drop me a note at ray at aob.org.


Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
ray at aob.org
773-665-1300


Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual
magazines.


For more information, see www.beertown.org


Don't Miss:
Craft Brewers Conference, April 10-13, Cleveland 



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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:39:30 +1100
From: "Phil Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Sleep Easy Steve, But  Say A Prayer For Me 

Steve Alexander comments :
>If oxidation worried me I'd have nightmares about those >who shovel hot
mash from a mash tun to a separate >lauter !

Oh dear oh dear, how do I admit to Steve that I am one of those who do just
this?

Steve, your idea of a nightmare seems tame to me. When you take to seeing
the rotting corpses of long gone film stars peering in the bedroom window at
you. Or worse still, you dream that Graham Sanders has bought himself a
house in Burradoo. Then you'll know what nightmares are all about!

I used to mash and lauter all in a Gott cooler with a Listermann false
bottom (and yes I use Dan's sparge arm). I've found Dan's equipment works
just fine for me and since he was kind enough to name everything "Phil's
this and that", how could I refuse?

These days I do my mashing in a big stainless steel pot and then transfer to
the Gott for the lauter. I don't drop my mash from a great height into the
Gott as Doc Pivo once did during his HSA experiments. I believe he did this
three times from the top of a very tall building and landed the soggy mess
(mash) square in his lauter tun on the pavement below on each occasion. He
was arrested before completing his experiments but claims NO ILL EFFECTS
resulted.

By comparison, I quietly shovel (if you want to put it this way) my soggy
mash into the Gott in the privacy of my garage and I haven't noticed any ill
effects.

I can't challenge your scientific understanding of why so much oxidation can
occur during the mash process. Perhaps Doc Pivo can.

I can only say it doesn't seem to cause any problems in my beer. If we need
to run some serious experiments and let the beer sit for several months
before consumption, I guess I could do that. Well I could put a bottle or
two aside. Generally speaking, my kegs of beer are consumed long before
oxidation is likely to become apparent.

Now isn't that the point? Most home brew is made for short term consumption.
It isn't usually sent around the globe in uncontrolled transport conditions
(though I have sent a few bottles to the USA for sampling).

Like you Steve, I am interested to know what is going on in my mash tun,
fermenter and kegs. I certainly am interested in having control over the
beer flavours I produce. That I lean to the practical side rather than the
scientific is just a part of my nature (and my lack of scientific
knowledge).

Please don't lose any sleep Steve (or is it "loose" - who started that silly
thread?)
If you're really worried about us mash shovellers,
a simple prayer will do.

Cheers
Phil





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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:04:55 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Munton's marris otter pale ale malt

Brewers,
    For the Big Brew barleywine, the recipe calls for Marris otter pale ale
malt. My local homebrew supply can only get Muntons. A quick search on the
hbd shows some dissatisfaction with this particular combination of maltster
and barley variety. Any recent feedback? Our club is thinking about buying
350 or so pounds of the stuff. It would be nice if was a worthwhile
purchase...

Brew on!

Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'"
     ~ Dave Barry




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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:40:28 -0500
From: "Brian M Dotlich" <BMDotlich at cs.com>
Subject: Clearfine Finning

Fellow brewers,

I am curious about this Clearfine beer fining that I picked up at my local
homebrew shop.  I need to know from someone who has used this fining if the
it removes all the yeast form suspension and if it is necessary to add new
yeast at priming time?

Brian Dotlich
Centerville OH
182.8, 186.5 Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:59:16 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Filtering brew water

>Parker Dutro asks:

>I built a water filter using a plastic 2 liter soda bottle, some ammo-carb
>carbon aquarium-water charcoal, and some polyester stuffing.  I used to use
>the same set up when I was growing flowers, and it helped my water quality a
>lot, removing harmful chlorine and ammonia, while leaving the minerals in.
>At least I hope.  My question is, does anyone know if this is bad way to
>filter my brew water?  Would the charcoal or carbon be a problem if it's not
>designed to filter houshold drinking water, or is carbon filtering all the
>same?

Superactivated charcoal is superactivated charcoal, so it'll work to
filter your water for beer, or remove some chemicals from the water in
your fish tank, but why ammo-carb?  Do you have ammonia in your water?

>Any thoughts on the possibility that this device will extract some
>valuable nutrients from the mash water?  The water comes through the filter
>clear and as far as I can tell, drinkable.  I drank a bit and it tasted
>like, well, water.

Same as a Pur or Brita filter would do.  (I use a Pur filter.)

>  Could the filtering be adding harmful agents to the water?

Only if some carbon dust is getting into the beer, which I assume the
polyester is preventing.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:59:16 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Pre Fermentation and other oxidations.

Dr. Pivo said:

>The popular way today is to blast with pure oxygen to an optimal 8ppm
>(which curiously is just about what you can squeeze in at atmospheric
>conditions.... is this real science or just "dong what you can do" and
>then justifying it?)

Not if yeast evolved in high oxygen environments.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:59:16 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Grassy Cascade & Liberty Ale

>Paul Erbe said:

>I made a simple APA with all 2001 cascades recently and did not notice a
>"grassy" flavor, I did think that the bitterness that they imparted was
>quite harsh.  In fairness to the hops I did use a total of 4 ounces for
>a 5 gallon batch.

Four ounces total, or 4 for bittering alone?  My house APA uses more
than 4 ounces of Centennial (super Cascade) total, and the bitterness
is anything but harsh (with 2 ounces).  In fact I'm thinking of
increasing the bittering hops by about 25% in the next batch.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:59:17 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Light-struck Beer

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:10:07 -0500, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote:

Nils Hedglin asked:

>  Does anyone know what type of light causes skunkiness in beer?  Is it all
>light?  Just incandescent, or flourecent?  Would the red bulbs used in
>photographic dark rooms have the same affect?

IIRC it's somewhere in the green region, so no.  AFAIK, incandescent
lighting doesn't cause skunking very much.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:59:17 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Concerned Brewer

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:10:07 -0500, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote:

Caryl Hornberger asked:

>I just started brewing in December, and now that the summer is quickly
>approaching here in Indiana (well, you can't tell by today, but it really
>is) I'm starting to get worried about brewing temperatures.  I only brew
>ales, so keeping the house around 68F has been no problem, but in the
>summertime, it's going to be 80F in the house.  What do I do? Go dig a 10
>foot hole in the back yard?  What does everyone else out there do?  The
>cheaper the better.

Brew what you'll need to last through the end of September, before it
gets too warm.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:55 -0600
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Weizen as a first batch

I have to disagree with Parker Dutro who questioned  why a brewer would pick
a hefeweizen as the first batch.  My experience is a hefeweizen is one of
the easiest beers to make, particulary an extract version.  Two cans of good
weizen extract, a pinch of hops and the proper yeast and you are there.  I
also take exception to the suggestion that a brewer should use a good dry
yeast.  You can not make an authentic hefeweizen with dry yeast.  It will
not give you the clove/bannana flavors.  I once scored a 46 in a regional
competition using nothing Northwestern Weizen extract, one ounce of
hallertau and Wheinstephan Weizen yeast (yes I made a starter).  The rest of
Parker's advice was pretty solid though.



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:05:08 -0500
From: "Chuck Bernard" <bernardch at mindspring.com>
Subject: MCAB-IV Entry Deadline Extended

The entry deadline for MCAB-IV has been extended to April 5, 2002!

If you are an MCAB-IV qualified brewer and haven't yet gotten around to
sending your entries for MCAB-IV, there's still time.  The entry deadline
has been extended to April 5, 2002!

A complete list of MCAB-IV qualified brewers, the complete entry rules and
all the necessary forms for entering can be found or downloaded from the
MCAB website (www.hbd.org/mcab).

MCAB-IV is being held in Cleveland Ohio Friday and Saturday, April 12 & 13,
2002.  For a complete rundown of the Friday judging schedule, Saturday
Technical Conference Schedule and speaker line-up be sure to visit the MCAB
web page.

Judges are still needed, and there is still plenty of time to register to
attend Saturday's MCAB Technical Conference.  The conference fee is only $50
and includes dinner at the Saturday evening awards banquet.  Register for
either on-line at the MCAB web page.

Chuck Bernard            bernardch at mindspring.com
Medina, OH [128.9, 128.5 Apparent Rennarian]
Competition Organizer and Judge Director, MCAB-IV





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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:51:43 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Yeast Starter/bifenthrin/hops poles

Parker Dutro writes ...

>It
> helps to make your starter  at  the same (or close) gravity as the OG of your
> recipe.

NO - absolutely not ! I used to advise this (matching SG in the starter) but
it's absolutely the wrong thing to do.

Yeast grow best under conditions of low osmotic pressure and ethanol.
Starter SG should be around 6-8P - say 1.030 - and never above 12P  even if
you are pitching the yeast into a 1.120 barleywine wort.    Gravities over
15P take a huge toll on the yeast and they don't grow well under these
conditions.  Also keep those Burton salts out of the starter.  It just makes
the yeast work harder for the growth.

>Pithcing the starter  at  krausen or after krausen
> is debateable.  A good rule is:  [...]
> If you wait until the activity has slowed (and
> this is what I typically do) then you can pour off most of the wort,
leaving
> the thick yeast cake and an inch of wort.

I agree with Dom Venezia  - KO the yeast and get them to sediment fairly
quickly by chilling the starter to near freezing before it is totally
fermented out.    I don't like to add so much of the "starter beer" into the
fresh wort since it compromises flavor and SG.
- -----
Mark Kellums asks ....

> With the expected emergence of Jap beetles feasting on my hop plants this
> season I was thinking of trying another insecticide, bifenthrin, suggested
> by a fellow hbd'er(thanks Gregory). I used permethrin last season with
good
> results but it was a major PITA to apply. Its use also resulted in a bit
of
> a mite problem. The bifenthrin is in liquid form so that it should be a
> breeze to apply compared to the permethrin dust. Can anyone share their
> experiences using bifenthrin?

No experience, but I do see on
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-PEST/1997/November/Day-26/p30948.htm
that bifenthrin residue at 10ppm is acceptable on hops.  The toxicology data
is a bit scary tho'.  Also see
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-PEST/1997/November/Day-26/p30948.htm
http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/empm/pubs/fatememo/bifentn.pdf
It's a "possible" carcinogen and a known neurotoxin.

Compare to permethrin at
http://infoventures.com/e-hlth/pestcide/permethr.html
which is all categories 3 & 4 on toxicological issues (relatively safe).

My personal philosophy wrt garden chemicals is to find the one that scares
me the least, use it sparingly and stick with it (don't change chemicals
every year).  That's still permethrin and pyrethrins at the moment.    It is
heck on fish and bees(bees are all gone anyway), but doesn't leech into the
water system, don't cause cancer, mutation or neurological damage even in
extreme mammal doses and breaks down relatively fast (weeks).

Some mites supposedly have developed resistance to permethrin and other
pyrethrins.  If that's the problem you'll need to switch.

Check out Imidacloprid insecticide too.  It's not as safe, but promises to
work
in fewer applications.

BTW Mark - I too have been looking around and found liquid permethrin as the
active ingredient in several plant insecticide products.  The lowest unit
cost was a 32oz highly concentrated (10%?) form available at TSC stores.  It
would take a while to use so much, and many hardware stores carry 0.5% and
0.2 % permethrin liquid sprays in quarts and gallons.  Not as cheap as the
dust.
- ---------------

BTW - does anyone have any clever (cheap) ideas in tall hops poles for my
garden ?

 -S





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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:34:47 
From: "Ira Edwards" <ira_j_e at hotmail.com>
Subject: Belgian Beers and yeast culturing...

I ahve been thinking of culturing up some of my favorite belgian beer yeasts 
from the sediments left in the bottles.
My questions are these:

1. do belgian breweries use a different type of yeast to bottle condition, 
like several wheat beers?

2. are there any special precautions to be take with belgian yeasts?  some 
of them have multiple types of critter in them...i.e. if I put them on a 
petri dish before I make a slant am I just wastin my time trying to get a 
pure culture?

thanks for the help
 -Ira
ira_j_e at hotmail.com
==============================



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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:50:39 -0800
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Guinness Pigs

I am looking for a few beta testers for a new brewing application I've been
working on. Requirements are that you brew fairly frequently, use a Palm OS
based device and are familiar with hot syncing that device. I only need a
handful of people for this initial testing. You must be willing to report
bugs and participate in the development process.

Please email me at rust1d at usa.net if you are interested.

If you wish to see some screen shots, go to :


http://www.beerinhand.com/



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---