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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Gump Report 2 ("Rob Moline")
  Any news about Movingbrews? ("Gary Smith")
  Re: Conical chilling ("Kent Fletcher")
  Conical  chilling idea ("Braam Greyling")
  Re: Where to buy beer online (Matt Walker)
  Heat generation during fermentation (Lonzo McLaughlin)
  Jethros CCF (Jim Busch)
  Online beer ("Mann, Drew")
  ancient thermometers ("Dr. Pivo")
  scratchbuilt glycol coolers. ("Peter L. Berghold")
  Re: RIMS temperature control (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Berliner DMS (Marc Sedam)
  Rye Ale questions (John Misrahi)
  Update on Schneider Weisse Yeast (Andrew Nix)
  cleaning the outside of a immersion chiller (Al Klein)
  Hazelnut flavoring in Longshot Brown Ale ("Neil Kushnir")


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Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:37:06 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Gump Report 2

				Gump Report 2
Lead from Brass...
     Years ago, there was an 'exploration' by the FDA into whether the
leaching of lead from brass faucets, and other fittings in use serving beer
was significant enough to require regulation. One can imagine the impact
this would have had on the beverage dispensing market, as the numbers of
brass faucets in use in this country is enormous.
     The BATF came a callin' one day to gather samples for 'another agency,'
which the agent declined to name, but I already knew what was up, and
detailed all the brass fittings in the beer pathway, from cold liquor/hot
liquor/airstone fittings, sample cocks, faucets, etc. We seemed to have a
little bit of brass spread throughout the place.
     Samples were taken of incoming H2O, and from several beers,  at  the
faucets, placed into bottles that looked like hip flasks, and sealed with
evidence tape. Later lab reports from FDA, requested by myself, revealed
that in all samples lead was significantly below what was expected, and
didn't approach the range specified as above potable water standards.
     in fact, one sample was below that of the incoming feed water!
Explanations ranged from low lead levels in incoming H2O on the day of the
brew of that beer, to possible yeast absorption, and lab error.... We
certainly didn't ask...
     Nonetheless the FDA proposal was dead in it's tracks.
Cheers!
Gump

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
New Address- jethrogump at mchsi.com



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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 00:13:14 -0600
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
Subject: Any news about Movingbrews?

Hi there,

I need to get a couple of items for my boilkettle (false bottom, 
swagelock, ss tube & valve) I would like the same parts I got for the 
mash tun that I got from Bill at MovingBrews. 

Also I need some of his quick disconnects to match ones I have at 
present. 

>From his website it looks like he is still not there.

Anyone know if he's coming back?

Cheers,

Gary



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Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 22:48:49 -0800
From: "Kent Fletcher" <kfletcher at socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Conical chilling

Lonzo,
Let me see if I understand. The purpose of the loop is to chill your
carboys?  Is the plan to wrap coils around the carboys, circulating glycol
through the coils and then through the freezer section of your firidge?

- ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lonzo McLaughlin <lonkelm at yahoo.com>
> I'm considering using my beer fridge as the cooling
> machine.  It seems a simple glycol loop into the
> freezer with a small pump and temperature controller
> should work well.   . . .I was thinking of getting a small automobile
> radiator and placing it in the freezer as the way to
> extract heat from the refrigerator.  One could use
> glycol inside the radiator.

A couple of things.  You want to extract heat from the carboys not the
refrigerator.  I don't think the idea of the "small radiator" will work
unless you also include aa fan to move air across the coil.  A simple coil
of aluminum tubing laid flat in a water filled pan would be simpler and
probably more effective.  There are any number of small inexpensive pumps
which could serve the glyco recirc function, the limiting factor would be
the total head,  that is the total resistance imposed by gravity and
friction loads, you'll want to have as little elevation difference as
possible between the two coils.  But wouldn't it be easier, cheaper, and
more effective to pick up a used chest freezer of appropriate size, change
aout the t-stat, and put your carboys in it?




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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:21:08 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Conical  chilling idea

Hi Lonzo and others,

An idea I have been toying with the last couple of months is the 
following:

Take a stainless steel coil and put it INSIDE the conical fermenter. 
Then pump with an aquarium pump, water through the coil from a 
reservoir in the fridge. You control the pump with a thermostat to 
keep the fermenting beer or wort at the correct temp.

Maybe also a good idea is to put some isolation material around 
the conical to ensure the ambient temperature do not influence the 
fermenting beer or wort. 

Just a thought. Will probably try it out sometime. 

Has anybody tried this before ?

Regards
Braam Greyling



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Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:40:22 -0800
From: Matt Walker <matt at suckerfish.net>
Subject: Re: Where to buy beer online

> Where can I buy beer online?

Belmont Station has a killer selection. Unfortunately, I think they only
sell by the case. Not so great for putting together a sampler...

http://www.horsebrass.com/belmont_station/bst_beer.html




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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Lonzo McLaughlin <lonkelm at yahoo.com>
Subject: Heat generation during fermentation

Is there a formula for BTUs given off during
fermentation?

I would like to know about how many BTUs are generated
during a 10 gallon batch.  Or more specifically, how
many BTUs/hr will I need to remove during the peak of
the fermentation?

I'm sure the math is out there somewhere.

Lonzo



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Date: Tue, Apr 2 2002 9:52:40 GMT-0500
From: Jim Busch <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: Jethros CCF

Mr Moline has done a wonderful job of 
describing the exact CCF I had made at a 
brewery tank supplier in Maine.  Only addition I 
would suggest is two ports on the top of the
CCF, one for filling and CIP at 1" size, the
other 1/2" for blowoff/CO2 pressure gauge
attachment.  Dont forget that once you build
this sucker, you need a nice centrifugal
pump with triclovers, about $800 new but sometimes
to be found much cheaper during ch 11 proceedings.
You can also fit a pressure relief valve onto
the CIP/filling port, but thats another few hundred.

Prost!

Jim Busch



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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:41:05 -0600 
From: "Mann, Drew" <dmann at kmg.com>
Subject: Online beer

Tray Writes:

>Where can I buy beer online? I would like to sample different types and
>styles. I have a very limited selection locally. I want to sample 
>different styles, types to help me in my home brewing.

I have used Vintage Cellar (http://www.vintagecellar.com) out of Blacksburg
VA (No affiliation etc.etc.)  Their service was great and the beer was
shipped with care. According to their web site they can not ship to KY, TN,
GA, NC, MD, IN and FL.  As I recall you also have to fax them a copy of your
ID, which they keep on file for all future orders.

Drew
Houston TX


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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:52:10 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: ancient thermometers

Jeff Greenly writes:


> , I remember reading recently that the ancient
> brewmaster would watch the surface of the liquor as it was heated and
> determine the best time for infusion based on its appearance. This technique
> is apparently still used by some of the more archaic brewers in Europe.
>
Who you callin' "archaic"?

Actually there is a lot to be said for learning the "look, smell and
taste" of your brew.

e,g. getting some good gelatinizing going happens around the upper 60's
(C) and you can see when the wort goes from just "milky" looking, to
distinctly a darker (clear) liquid with a bunch of white junk in it....
maybe even a better way of judging proper mash temps that a single
thermometer in one place. heat source in another, and a bad stir.

another example, as Phil Yates previously noted, when trying to measure
hydrometer readings off the sparge, you get different numbers depending
on your feed rates (and can fool yourself).... but just nibble a few
grains from the top at intervals, and when they start tasting like "air"
there's nothing of value left to be had in my opinion.... and you get
surprisingly consistant run off readings once you've "trained" yourself.

In short.... if you have to make an extremely consistant commercial
product, you'd better be prepared to measure a LOT of things, but if
doing it for your own pleasure, measurement is just a way to teach you
to cook good food by "pinches, dabs, and handfulls" by training your
senses.

But back to the original question.... at least locally , the historical
pre -thermometer -thermometer of choice was the elbow.... try dipping it
in sometime abd you'll get the idea.... and learn what "thick skinned"
means.

Dr. Pivo



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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:06:52 -0500
From: "Peter L. Berghold" <peter at berghold.net>
Subject: scratchbuilt glycol coolers.

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


[*]
[*] 1.  I was thinking of getting a small automobile
[*] radiator and placing it in the freezer as the way to
[*] extract heat from the refrigerator.  One could use
[*] glycol inside the radiator.
[*]

Actually a heater core from an automobile would work. To heat the inside of a 
car a relatively small unit is used to heat the car, I don't see why it 
wouldn't work in reverse...



 - -- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Peter L. Berghold     Peter at Berghold.Net -or- Peter.Berghold at med.nyu.edu 
Manager Unix Engineering,MT Sinai NYU                     (212) 263-6932  
For PGP public key send email to: pgp-key at berghold.net 
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:53:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com>
Subject: Re: RIMS temperature control

Nathan -

Excellent description of how temperature control works.  I will be setting
up a PID for the first time soon and I am sure you will have saved me a
lot of trouble.  I have been using a Morris style home built controller
for about 9 years and am finally upgrading to a PID due to doubling the
capacity of my system and needing to control two SSRs with one controller.
The Morris controller sort of combines a temp controller and SSR by using
a triac, so the amount of amps it controls cannot be increased beyond the
capacity of the triac itself.  Also, I laid out the circuit board to only
handle 15 amps on the existing traces, so even if I went out and got a
larger triac that would fit the footprint on the PC board, it may just
vaporize the traces the first time it turned on.

I just have two comments to make.  First, making this wonderful treatise
an MSWord document limits your audience.  Not everyone out there use MS
crap products to browse the web.  There are numerous people who interact
with the web on Unix systems and either cannot or do not want to have to
use any MS products.  When you are done writing this and are "ready to
publish", please take the time to output it in PLAIN ASCII TEXT and put
that up on your web site.  Your potential audience will increase.

Next, since you are using MSWord to write it, you should take advantage of
the built in spell checker.  There are currently many spelling errors.
There are also several words  that will pass the spell checker, but are
not the correct word to use in that context (i.e. "to" used where you
probably meant "too").  I would be happy to send you a marked up version
of your document back to you with corrections.  I also found one sentence
that just ends before it actually says what you may have intended.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up.  This is very
excellent information stated in a very straightforward way that anyone
will be able to understand.

dion

- --
Dion Hollenbeck  Email:  hollen at woodsprite.com
Home Page:       http://www.woodsprite.com
Brewing Page:    http://hbd.org/hollen



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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 13:10:50 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Berliner DMS

I don't recall having a problem with DMS in my no-boil
Berliner weiss.  Could be because I sparged with boiling
water which may have helped volatilize the precursors.  Or
not.  It just worked.

But I did not have any luck whatsoever with the acid rests.
I chose instead to do a normal mash, chill and drop right
into the fermenter (no boil), pitch the yeast, then pitch
the lactobacillus "bugs" a day later.  That seemed to give
the best combination of sourness and alcohol.  That keg JUST
got good as the last beer was drawn off.  A very pleasant
nutty/toasty flavor had just started to develop...this is
why man created 10 gallon cornys.

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC



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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:12:26 -0800
From: John Misrahi <Lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Rye Ale questions

Hi all

I am planning to make a Rye ale and I need some advice. First of all,
should I use malted or flaked rye? I can get either one at my LHBS.
Second, how much of either should i use in a partial mash? Thirdly, can
anyone provide me with a recipe? I'm thinking to do something along the
lines of an English amber ale or an ESB. I was thinking about using pale
malt, crystal, rye (flaked or malted), light malt extract for the
difference in fermentables, along with fuggles and east kent goldings
hops, and something like Whitelabs or Wyeast British ale or London ale
yeast.

I appreciate all your input
thank you
John Misrahi
Montreal, Canada




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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:34:38 -0500
From: Andrew Nix <anix at vt.edu>
Subject: Update on Schneider Weisse Yeast

Hello HBDers!!!

Wanted to post a quick update since several folks expressed interest.  The 
3 gallon batch of weizen I pitched yeast stepped up from a bottle of 
Schneider Weisse underwent a taste test last night....killer beer.  Very 
clovey with lots of fruity esters.  I brewed another batch and racked 5 
gallons of it onto the yeast pancake and it is cranking away right now with 
similar aromas from the CO2 blowing off, so I'll have more of this gem to 
drink soon.

Drewmeister
Andrew Nix
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Virginia Tech
anix at vt.edu
http://www.vt.edu:10021/A/anix



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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 20:44:40 -0500
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: cleaning the outside of a immersion chiller

On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 00:10:07 -0500, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote:

>Ralph Link asked:

>I have managed to obtain a 50 ft. coil of 3/4" copper tube. I plan to 
>rewind it around the circumference of a 100lbs. propane tank to make the 
>chiller. This may be a bigger problem than I think. My next concern is, 
>what would be an effective and easy way to clean the exterior of the 
>chiller, since the copper coil has been left laying around in the open for 
>a long period of time.

Boiling in wort is one way.  Boiling in vinegar is another.  I'd opt
for the vinegar.  (30% white cider vinegar, 70% water)
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 21:39:45 -0500
From: "Neil Kushnir" <neilk27 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Hazelnut flavoring in Longshot Brown Ale

Hi Everybody!

I am about to brew a Hazelnut Brown Ale that was one of the winning recipes 
in the Longshot World Homebrew contest sponsored by the Boston Beer Co. (Sam 
Adams) several years ago. The recipe simply calls for "hazelnut flavoring" 
added at bottling, but I don't know how much to put in for a five gallon 
batch or what the best kind of hazelnut flavoring is to use. Has anyone had 
previous experience with this recipe or any other using hazelnut flavoring? 
Any recommendations? I am familiar with the process of adding a small 
premeasured amount of flavoring bit by bit until the taste is where I want 
it, then extrapolating the small amount to a five gallon batch. I'm just 
lazy and trying to avoid all that hassle on bottling day.

The winning recipe was credited to Doug and Vicki Parker of Leesburg, 
Florida. Does anyone in that area have any idea if these people are still 
homebrewing? Maybe I can contact them directly if they're still involved.

Private answers are fine!

Neil Kushnir
in Montreal (where I would usually spell "flavoring" with a "u"= 
flavouring.)






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