HOMEBREW Digest #3906 Thu 04 April 2002

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  RE: Rye Ale questions ("Parker Dutro")
  Re: Hazelnut flavoring in Longshot Brown Ale ("phil sides jr")
  rye (leavitdg)
  BTU's ("Fred Scheer")
  hazelnut flavoring ("Peter Fantasia")
  RE: Longshot hazelnut flavoring ("John Bonney")
  conical chillers ("Jim Bermingham")
  South African Breweries Courting Miller ("Larry Bristol")
  Sam Adams Boston Lager ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  Dangers of propane, latest chapter (Roger Deschner)
  Details on MCAB 4 Conference (Paul Shick)
  Other PID info ("Pete Calinski")
  Longshot HAZELNUT!!! ("Peter Garofalo")
  Thermocouple Wire (john.mcgowan)
  Sankey spelling (bdk)
  First Batch/Hefeweizen ("Scott & Lisa")
  Re: Conical chilling (Daniel Chisholm)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:15:11 -0800 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: RE: Rye Ale questions Hey John, I would like to brew a rye ale soon too, so I may just grapht myself into your thread, here. The only help I can give is that I believe to use malted rye would be easier, as you could use it in the mash. However, it is probably undermodified, meaning only that in order to bring out the enzyme potential, you would be better off doing a decoction with at least a protein rest at 122F. If you use flaked rye, (and again, I am only partially sure of this) you would need to boil it for a bit seperately and then add the whole soupy mix to the mash. This boiling would break down the alpha's and beta's and make the rye usable to the yeast. You would want to be careful and monitor the temp. and add it to the mash when it's the same temp. as the mash. This may be simpler than decoction. Hope this sheds some light. Parker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:27:52 -0500 From: "phil sides jr" <phil at brewingnews.com> Subject: Re: Hazelnut flavoring in Longshot Brown Ale Neil Kushnir asks: >I am about to brew a Hazelnut Brown Ale that was one of the winning recipes >in the Longshot World Homebrew contest sponsored by the Boston Beer Co. (Sam >Adams) several years ago. The recipe simply calls for "hazelnut flavoring" >added at bottling, but I don't know how much to put in for a five gallon >batch or what the best kind of hazelnut flavoring is to use. Has anyone had >previous experience with this recipe or any other using hazelnut flavoring? I found this on the web Neil: Hazelnut Brown Ale INGREDIENTS: 6.6 Lbs.Northwestern Gold Liquid Malt Extract 1/2 Lbs.British Pale Grain (M&F 2-row) 1/2 Lbs.British Crystal Grain (M&F) 1 Lbs Cara-Pils Grain 1 1/2 oz.Willamette or Fuggles hops-60 min.(brewers discretion) 1 oz.Willamette or Fuggles hops-aroma (5 min.steep at end of boil) 1 tsp.Irish Moss 1 1/2 bottles all natural hazelnut flavoring (at bottling) 2 tsp.Gypsum Wyeast British Ale Mash grains at 160F in 1.5gal water for 60min.Yield:5 gallons Hazelnut flavoring is available at area gourmet and fine food dealers.Flavor to taste at bottling becuase many hazelnut flavorings have different strengths. This is the recipe used to win the worldwide "Boston Beer Company 's Homebrew Contest ".This recipe was the standard for production of "Longshot Hazelnut Brown Ale ". Source:Doug &Vicki Parker -Florida Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD [420.7, 122.4] Rennerian - ---- I don't have an attitude problem... You have a perception problem. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 08:01:13 -0500 (EST) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: rye John; I have not used the flaked rye much, but I have made several batches of Rye ale with the malted rye...in that I purchased 55 lb of it and have to use it up! I think that if you are not used to rye that you want to limit the amt to about 1 lb. You could use 2 but both the intensity of the rye flavor (which I like) and the body of the brew (due to beta glucans) can be challenging. I will send you some recipes that I used in the past (they are at home and I am at work), and perhaps if I can make the next Montreal Club meeting I will bring some for tasting. ..Darrell [Plattsburgh, NY,...Montreal suburbs...545.7, 72.3 Apparent Rennerian] Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 07:40:37 -0600 From: "Fred Scheer" <fhopheads at msn.com> Subject: BTU's >Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:55:42 -0800 (PST) >Lonzo McLaughlin wrote: Heat generation during fermentation >Is there a formula for BTUs given off during >fermentation? Lonzo: Let me give you following the refrigeration load calculations: 1. Tank holding load: load= X sg. ft. of surface area X 10 BTU/hr/sg.ft example: a 100 sg. ft tank (appr. 30 BBL) = 1,000 BTU/hr 2. Tank pull down load product weight = BBL X 31 gal/bbl X 8.34 lb/gal X .97 BTU/lb *F (ex. 68 -32) example: 30 BBL X 31 gal/bbl= 930 X 8.34 BTU/lb*F (68-32) = 270,839 BTU/tank Hope this helps, happy cooling Fred Scheer Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:53:49 -0500 From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com> Subject: hazelnut flavoring Neil, www.wildroots.com Try this website and look for flavormate drops. I believe it's one bottle to 5 gallons. Cheers Pete Fantasia NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:53:07 -0500 From: "John Bonney" <john at ruthsx.com> Subject: RE: Longshot hazelnut flavoring Neil Kushnir asks about the hazelnut flavoring used in the longshot recipe... I just brewed this recipe about 8 weeks ago with limited success. The finished beer was okay, maybe a little on the thin side, but still a good tasting brown ale. Things went downhill when I added 1oz/5 gallons of a hazelnut extract I purchased online from a company called Flavorganics. The amount I added was okay, it wasn't overpowering or anything like that. The hazelnut flavoring itself just doesn't taste like the full smooth nutty flavor that I expected. It was more of a fake tasting coffee additive flavor. Probably would have been better for baking cookies with. The beer isn't undrinkable, but it's depressing compared to the real thing (by the way, can you still buy Long shot beer anywhere?). I don't know, maybe it's just my taste. I still have (1) 2oz bottle of the stuff, if anyone is interested in giving it a try (email me w/ your shipping address). Anyone else made this recipe? John Bonney Grand Rapids, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:13:10 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: conical chillers There have been several post on ways to chill a conical fermenter. Thanks to Ken Schwartz and the "Son of a Fermentation Chiller" I am the proud owner of the "Mother of Fermentation Chiller" About a year ago George Fix told me how much he enjoyed his 12.2 gal conical he got from BBMB. He said the external cooler also provided by BBMB worked great. George got his system free from BBMB. When I ask BBMB if I might get one free they politely turned me down. With a $750.00 cost for the chiller I started looking for an alternate way to chill my conical. I contacted Ken Schwartz and ask if he would be interested in designing a Big Son of a Gun Fermenter". Ken thought the shipping cost would make the thing too expensive and the weight of 10 gallon of liquid on the three legged stand would go through the foam board. So, I used the skill I learned in seventh grade wood shop class to build the Mother of all Chillers. I made a chiller based on Ken's design using plywood and insulating foam. Basically, it's a box inside a box with a four inch space between the two boxes. This space is filled with spray type insulation foam. I have a separate insulated space for six jugs filled with ice. I have a fan from an old computer operated by a thermostat to blow air across the ice to cool the fermenter. I also have an indoor/outdoor thermometer from Radio Shack that has a probe that I can insert inside the conical to measure the temp of the wort. The thing works great. At first, to chill it to the desired temperature, I put three to four additional jugs of ice under the fermenter itself. There's lots of room for this. When the wort gets to my desired temp. I remove those jugs and rely on the ice in the cooling chamber to do the rest. I haven't tried it in the hot Texas summers yet. If it doesn't work in the garage, I will put the chiller in a spare room in the house. It s heavy, so I added casters enabling me to roll it place to place. The plans for Ken's "Son of a Fermentation Chiller" can be found on his web page http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/ Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:58:31 -0600 From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: South African Breweries Courting Miller According to Reuters News Service, South African Breweries (the world's fifth largest with brands such as Castle and Pilsner Urquell) is trying to buy Miller away from Philip Morris (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1337472) for around $5 billion. Perhaps some enterprising HBDer could outbid SAB, change the recipe for "Genuine Draft" into something drinkable, and become a beer God! :-) Larry Bristol Bellville, TX AR=[1093.6,223.2] http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:15:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: Sam Adams Boston Lager hmmm Anybody had this beer lately? Can you taste the Flaked Maize??? Can you see the Corn Color??? Is it just me??? OH THE HUMANITY!!! The mighty have fallen! C'ya! -Scott ===== "It's Mister Mischief with a trick up his sleeve... Roll up on you like Christopher Reeves" -D12 http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:18:00 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Deschner <rogerd at uic.edu> Subject: Dangers of propane, latest chapter Funny there should be several propane threads on homebrewing lists recently. Not so funny on Monday afternoon, ironiocally the very day a new Illinois law went into effect concerning safer valves on all propane tanks, when a propane tank exploded in a jewelry repair shop, closing down much of the Chicago Loop for the afternoon. It was in the same block as my dentist's office, and she said it was a really, really loud "ka-boom". Some in the building thought a terrorist's bomb had gone off, or a plane had hit the building. I saw the building yesterday afternoon when I went for a dental appointment, and the 6th floor is charred in some places, with many of its windows missing, and scaffolding being erected around the building so they could open the streets and sidewalks. Gawkers: best view of the damage is from a CTA "L" train. The affected building, and a block of Madison Street, is still closed. The Chicago Fire Department is searching for any remaining tanks of propane in the building, before they will let anyone inside. You can bet they will be stepping up searches for any propane tanks located in any building structure (this includes homes) anywhere in the city. I saw the aftermath first hand: misuse of propane did major damage to a large, solid, masonry building, and has left two people still in critical condition in the hospital. The first lawsuit has already been filed. Here is the article from today's Chicago Tribune. Roger Deschner rogerd at uic.edu "Anything which can go wrong, will." - somebody named Murphy - ---------- Fron the Chicago Tribune, April 3, 2002 ----------------- - -------------------- Tenants cited for propane use before explosion - -------------------- Tanks are called ongoing problem By Crystal Yednak and Liam Ford Tribune staff reporters April 3, 2002 The use of propane tanks like the one that exploded in a Loop high-rise Monday is illegal and has been an ongoing problem in the building, city officials said Tuesday. Fire Commissioner James Joyce said other propane tanks were found Monday in the Mallers Building, 5 S. Wabash Ave., after the explosion of a 100-pound tank in Betty's Jewelry on the sixth floor destroyed the shop and forced the evacuation of the 21-story building. "We will not allow the building to open until we're sure that all propane is removed from the building," Joyce said. Previous inspections have turned up a number of jewelers in the building still using propane even though it is illegal. During routine inspections over the past six months, 17 of the more than 100 jewelry businesses in the building have been cited for having propane tanks, fire officials said. When Betty's Jewelry was inspected in October, there was no evidence of propane being used there, Joyce said. The Fire Department inspects buildings such as the Mallers Building once a year. Inspectors follow up with those businesses that are cited to ensure the violations are corrected, fire officials said. Propane is not used by many jewelers because it violates fire codes and is volatile, said Kari Anderson, executive director of the Illinois Jewelers Association. Instead, many use a combination of natural gas and oxygen to heat gold and other materials, she said. The Mallers Building is set up to allow jewelers to use natural gas instead of propane, Joyce said. While it was still unclear Tuesday why the propane was being used at the business, other jewelers said the only reason they can see for using propane is if a natural gas connection is not readily available. It appears no one was in Betty's Jewelry at the time of the explosion, Joyce said. Two people remained hospitalized Tuesday with burns from the blast. Michael Erdman, 20, was in serious condition at Loyola University Medical Center in Maywood, with burns to his face, ears, hands and chest, a hospital spokeswoman said. A 38-year-old man, Alfredo Mohedano, was in fair condition at Cook County Hospital with burns to his hands and face, a hospital spokesman said. Engineers and architects inspected the building Tuesday to be sure that there was no structural damage. Workers removed shards of glass from window frames and erected a canopy above the sidewalk around the building. All but one street near the building was reopened by Tuesday's afternoon rush. All of the streets are expected to be open for the morning commute, Chicago Department of Transportation officials said. Chicago Transit Authority elevated trains did not stop at the Madison/Wabash station until later in the afternoon Tuesday. Mallers Building tenants, unable to get back in their offices Tuesday, waited behind police lines for word of when they could reopen their shops. Joyce said there was no real problem with evacuating people in the building after the explosion Monday. Joyce added that the building, because of its age, is not required to have sprinklers or central alarm systems. Marlene Hatley, a medical assistant for Sinai Health First on the 21st floor of the building, filed a lawsuit Tuesday against Mallers Building Inc. and Betty's Jewelry, alleging that the building's management didn't have a proper evacuation procedure and that the jewelry store was using dangerous materials. Though city officials said the building had an evacuation plan on file, lawyers for Hatley say it was inadequate if tenants had no idea about the procedure. Hatley said she and her co-workers found thick smoke out the front and back doors of their office, so they opened windows and hung their heads outside to get air. About 7 p.m., firefighters came up to the office and escorted them to a stairwell, she said. Tenants were also concerned about the effect the building's closing would have on their business. "I'm sure a lot of people calling our office are wondering what's going on," said Barb Kotomski, who with co-workers from Reuven Gitter Inc. walked down 17 floors on the fire escape after finding heavy smoke in the hallway Monday. Copyright (c) 2002, Chicago Tribune - -------------------- Improved archives! Searching Chicagotribune.com archives back to 1985 is cheaper and easier than ever. New prices for multiple articles can bring your cost down to as low as 30 cents an article: http://chicagotribune.com/archives Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:34:54 -0600 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: Details on MCAB 4 Conference Hi all, Here's a very quick update on MCAB 4, to take place in Cleveland, Ohio on April 12-13. The detailed schedule is up on the web page (hbd.org/mcab) along with suggestions for hotels near the Renaissance Hotel (our judging/hospitality site) and Great Lakes Brewing Company (the site for the talks and the banquet.) The registration fee is $50 (including a pretty serious banquet, commermorative beer and glassware, lots of great talks, plus tons of great homebrew and conversation in the hospitality suite) or $25 without the banquet. We've still got room for late registrants, and we could still use a few more judges. I hope to see many HBDers here in Cleveland next week. Paul Shick Cleveland Hts, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:46:10 -0500 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Other PID info Here is a link for more information on PIDs. Warning, if you are not a PID Geek, you will get real board/snowed, real fast. http://www.chipcenter.com/eexpert/praeth/praeth069.html;$sessionid$513DFHQAA BDLVJ4Y5XCSFEQ Since the link is so long, you may have to Copy/Paste it into the browser in 2 steps. There is also a Programmable Logic Controller (PLC) which is another way to perform the same function. Information is at http://www.chipcenter.com/eexpert/praeth/praeth070.html Same warning applies. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY *********************************************************** *My goal: * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:55:25 -0500 From: "Peter Garofalo" <pgarofa1 at twcny.rr.com> Subject: Longshot HAZELNUT!!! In today's HBD, Neil Kushnir asks: >I am about to brew a Hazelnut Brown Ale that was one of the winning recipes >in the Longshot World Homebrew contest sponsored by the Boston Beer Co. (Sam >Adams) several years ago. The recipe simply calls for "hazelnut flavoring" >added at bottling, but I don't know how much to put in for a five gallon >batch or what the best kind of hazelnut flavoring is to use. Has anyone had >previous experience with this recipe or any other using hazelnut flavoring? >Any recommendations? I am familiar with the process of adding a small >premeasured amount of flavoring bit by bit until the taste is where I want >it, then extrapolating the small amount to a five gallon batch. As one who judged in both Longshot competitions, let me relate a little story: the wonderful hosts of the second Longshot competition provided very comfortable and affordable accomodations, including full meals (even a clambake). They also had cases of free winners from the previous year. Well, my judging session ran long, and the only one left was the hazelnut ale. I took one, drank about a quarter of the bottle, and haven't been the same since... Based on my experience, I'd have to guess that the proper proportion of hazelnut extract in a five gallon batch would be about 4.98 gallons! The next morning, they had hazelnut flavored coffee at breakfast. I could not get it past my nose, and to this day have lost all desire to drink hazelnut flavored anything. However, as they say, different strokes for different folks. Fire away! Cheers, Peter Garofalo Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:58:57 -0500 From: john.mcgowan at us.abb.com Subject: Thermocouple Wire A reconfiguration of my RIMS has caused my thermocouple (Cole-Parmer, T-Type, EW-08439-84) to be approximately two feet further from my PID. Consequently, the cord between the thermocouple and the PID is now two feet too short as well. I called Cole-Parmer to ask if they sell thermocouple extension wire. They do -- in 100 foot rolls! A bit much (in both length and cost) for my needs. They also offer a neat 5 foot extension cord, but that costs nearly the same as the thermocouple itself. Does anyone out there have a spare four feet of 20 gauge T-Type thermocouple wire they could part with? (I know that I'll screw it up at least once) Or can anyone offer an alternative solution (aside from the obvious go back to your prior configuration -- with which I was not happy -- or move your PID two feet closer)? Private e-mails OK. Thanks John McGowan Hopewell, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:16:09 -0800 (PST) From: bdk at srl.caltech.edu Subject: Sankey spelling I have always wondered both what the Sankey in Sankey kegs means, and whether it is spelled Sanke or Sankey (there seems to be a 50/50 split over how to spell it). I couldn't turn up any old discussions in the HBD archives, so I did a couple of quick searches to find out. The only thing I found is a patent (U.S. Patent 4,142,658) held by GKN Sankey, from the 70's, for a keg valve. GKN, as far as I can tell, is a big aerospace / automotive engineering firm in the U.K., with a division called GKN Sankey. So I am now assuming that these things are Sankey kegs because GKN Sankey came up with the valve design. Can anybody confirm / deny / shed light on this? Or on why a company that makes helicopters and auto components would be designing kegs? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:56:32 -0600 From: "Scott & Lisa" <scottandlisa at mindspring.com> Subject: First Batch/Hefeweizen First of all, let me thank all those who responded to my last questions BEFORE I started this batch. Now that have this beer in my carboy, I have some more questions: 1. It seems to me that the beer is very dark for a Hefeweizen. Is the B3 German Hefeweizen kit suppose to produce a dunkelweizen or a weizen? 2. Does a carboy "fermometer" give you accurate temperature readings? I keep my house a 68F, but according to the fermometer, I have been averaging between 64-66F. Wouldn't the metabolic activity of the yeast generate some heat? 3. How long should this beer ferment? I am up to day 5 right now, and the airlock is bubbling every ~13 sec. Korzonas' book says to wait until the bubbles are three minutes apart. Also, I still have a pretty hefty layer of krauesen on top of the beer - is that supposed to dissipate at some point? It seems like at this rate, I will be waiting longer than 2 weeks to bottle. 4. BTW - I did use a 1L yeast starter, and oxygenated the wort prior to pitching. My OG was right on target at 1.052, and the pitching temperature was 74F. Thanks in advance for your input... Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:21:58 -0400 From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca> Subject: Re: Conical chilling I tried to use a loop of copper tube in the freezer compartment of a dorm fridge to cool a small coldroom (lagering room!) last summer. I used an aquarium water circulation pump (which was magnetically coupled, and had a static head of about 30" IIRC) to pump a mixture of water and "plumbing antifreeze" (cheaper than auto antifreeze) from a reservoir (100 oz. coffee can) through the fridge wall into the 3 or 4 loops of 3/8" copper tube, then back into the cold room and into 2 loops of 3/8" copper tubing, which had a computer fan circulating air over them (and having condensate sweat from it like crazy, dripping into and diluting the antifreeze in aformentioned 100 oz. coffee can). FWIW, even though my pump only had a static head of about 30", I moved my coolant at an adequate flow rate over a vertical height of about four feet. Think about syphons for a bit, and it'll suddenly fit you how to do it.... ;-) Of course, like a siphon, it has to be primed, and will stop flowing if there is an air leak or air lock - however I did not find that to be a problem in practice. The coldroom was about 3' square by about 7' high, insulated on two walls and one ceiling with 2" white styrofoam. The other two walls and floor were concrete (basement corner). The cooling capacity of my (remarkably clever, I though ;-) device was inadequate. It improved _somewhat_ when I flooded the freezer compartment with about 3/4" of water, so as to freeze the copper coils inside ice (and improve the thermal conduction path by having ice couple the aluminum freezer compartment to the copper coils, instead of mainly air coupling). If I were to attempt to improve the heat transfer capability of that system with a radiator, the first place I'd put it would be in the cold room, complete with forced air circulation through it (I'd also make a drip tray and drain hose to take the condesate away). Dunno if using a small radiator (an auto heater core as suggested previously is a great idea) inside the freezer compartment would help the heat transfer capacity enough. The limiting factor would then become the relative small area of the freezer compartment's flat aluminum chilling surface (evaporator). - -- - Daniel Fredericton, NB Canada Return to table of contents
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