---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re:Schlitz Porter Recipe ("Wayne Holder")
  Longshot Brown Ale (SpamZapper)
  Beer in Italy (Rosalba e Massimo)
  Re: Grain Mill Questions (john_findlay)
  Clear Wheat Beers ("Peter Fantasia")
  You gotta love Rye Beers . . . ("Dave Galloway")
  Re: Saving Yeast (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  CCF filling (Jim Busch)
  Re: Pilsner plans (Jeff Renner)
  saving yeast (Marc Sedam)
  Grain mills (Mark Kempisty)
  Hazelnut Flavo(u)r ("Charles R. Stewart")
  Re: Saving Yeast ("Doug Hurst")
  Conical chilling ("Steve Heffner")
  CCF Chiller (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Hot Pepper Beer ("Colby Fry")
  UK-Homebrew (Arnaud VIEZ)
  Hot Pepper Beer ("Colby Fry")
  Russian Imperial (Russ.Hobaugh)
  Dark DME and 4 lb cans.......... ("David Craft")
  Clear Weizen ("Mike Brennan")
  Re: Clear Wheat Beers ("Michael J. Westcott")
  radiator chilling ("chris eidson")


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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:37:48 -0800
From: "Wayne Holder" <zymie at charter.net>
Subject: re:Schlitz Porter Recipe

Skot "Iggy" Rat writes:

"This beer has not been brewed for a long time. Anybody have any
information?

Thanks

 -Skotrat"

Sorry Skot, all I have is the kewl "Schlitz Dark" tap handle I scored on
Ebay.

Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach CA
http://www.zymico.com





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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 23:41:47 -0700
From: SpamZapper <SpamZapper at comcast.net>
Subject: Longshot Brown Ale

Doug & Vicki Parker used the little bottles of 
coffee flavoring.  You can typically find them in 
the coffee section of about any grocery store.  
They are about 2 fl oz in size, are plastic, have a 
red label and red lid (label has gold [I think] 
trim).  I don't remember the brandname.  What they 
are REALLY made for is to add a few drops to a cup 
of coffee.  If memory serves, they couldn't use a 
brand name because of copyright/trademark/et al 
issues.
In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, 
in water there is
bacteria. - German Proverb



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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 10:09:43 +0200
From: Rosalba e Massimo <rosamax at split.it>
Subject: Beer in Italy

Hi HBDers!

>From: Kevin Elsken <k.elsken at worldnet.att.net> 
>Subject: Thanks and a few very Random Thoughts... 

>[...]  my connection was at 4:30 pm on Alitalia, on the way to Milan (side 
question: Italian food is wonderful.  Why can't they make a good
beer? [...]).

We do... but they are a bit hard to find. :-)

Apart from a couple of good or acceptable industrial beers (say, for
example, Moretti La Rossa) in Italy there are now more than 70
microbreweries (actually, most are brewpubs). Of them, a dozen make
good beer, and a handful of them brew excellent beer. 
Last year we held here in Italy the annual EBCU conference (EBCU is
the association of all the European Beer consumer associations, such
as CAMRA and others). We toured the people (coming from all over
Europe) to visit four micros in NW Italy and they were surprised of
the quality of beers. The same beers of these micros have been
featured with success at GBBF 2000 and 2001.

The best italian brewery is Le Baladin, a brewpub brewing a wide range
of belgian- and UK-inspired (but personalized) ales. They bottle 4 or
5 of these ales - actually they are quite specializing in
bottle-conditioning - and they are available in a few beer or gourmet
shops (two are in Milan) and in an online beershop. 
Very good beers are also brewed in a brewpub in Milan (good ales) and
in another one not far from Milan (best lagers in Italy). Both are
strictly brewpubs. 
At least two other micros in the north of Italy make very good beers -
these two are not brewpubs, the beers are available in a few bar and
restaurants, shops and in the online beershop.

You can find infos and addresses in my site:
http://www.maxbeer.org (follow the upper-left link to the english
version)

BTW, a few of the "older" HBDers may remember that a few years ago I
posted a few messages to the list. Maybe it is time  for a quick
update about homebrewing in Italy... if it is of interest, I can post
in
the next few days...

ciao
max

Massimo Faraggi, Genova, Italy


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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:50:03 +0200 
From: john_findlay at non.agilent.com
Subject: Re: Grain Mill Questions

For 'normal' home brewing (is there such a thing?)...

1) Potential for motorisation is helpful but not vital.
2) Adjustability is useful, but it doesn't have to be easy
   or quick as once you've got it set up you'll probably not 
   need to tweak it much at all.
3) Large diameter rollers are better than smaller, but 
   there's a limit to how big you can go in the 
   home-brew environment.
4) The knurl on the rollers should be just enough to drag the
   grain through.  If the knurl is too coarse, the height of the 
   points is so great that the grain gets spiked and cut
   rather than properly crushed.  I get the feeling that some
   mill manufacturers go for a coarser knurl to compensate for
   the fact that there is not enough depth of grain in the hopper
   to help drive the grain through effectively. Hence ...
5) A decent sized(depth!)hopper is good. Small ones are irritating. 

Your challenge is to compare these suggestions with the available mills 
and choose the best for your budget. I won't make any recommendations
in public! It's a good idea to have a set of automotive feeler guages 
to measure the gap when you're setting up, but remember that you will 
detecting the tip-to-tip gap.  

My mill has a fairly coarse knurl, and you have to set it to a narrower
gap (measured by the feelers) than the text-books would normally recommend
to get a decent crush/efficiency. I will be replacing it when I've fixed
my leaking mash tun and got the rest of the plot going again. 

Good Luck

John Findlay
Edinburgh, Scotland.


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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:53:10 -0500
From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com>
Subject: Clear Wheat Beers

Dennis asks why his wheat beers are clear.

Without knowing your mashing schedule it's hard to say but I've found a
single step infusion mash to work well with wheat beers. Be careful you're
not slipping into the protein rest temp range.Check your thermometer as
well. I had one that was 8 degrees off.

If you don't do a mash out and you transfer to the kettle at a lower temp
than 140 F you can get excessive protein breakdown. Protein rests and
extended boils should all be reserved for undermodified malt.

Cheers,
Pete Fantasia
NJ


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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:15:11 -0500
From: "Dave Galloway" <Galloway at gtcom.net>
Subject: You gotta love Rye Beers . . .

Greetings to the Collective,
All this talk of Rye beers has gotten me going. I LOVE rye beers.  Now I
just need to find my back up recipe disks. A system crash necessitated
re-formatting the hard drive (Side Bar: It never to early to back up
essential files, but it helps if you can find the damn backup disks). Summer
is upon us and rye makes a wonderful addition to any "light" summer ale. I
quantify "light" as any beer with an OG under 1.045 or so. It adds a whole
'nother dimension to the flavor profile of whatever you are crafting. I
think it would be outstanding in a big "spiced" Winter Warmer but haven't
tried it yet. Life has a funny way of interfering with my brewing schedule.
Here is a recipe for a 5 gallon brew.

2 lbs Rye Malt
3 lbs Marris Otter
1 lbs Belgian Munich
1/2 lbs caravienne
1 lbs wheat malt
3 lbs light LME
2 Heaping TBS Irish Moss
1oz East Kent Goldings
2oz Fuggles

OG is about 1.050 and the IBU's are ballparked at around 30. Adjust
accordingly.

Dough in the grains in about three gallons of 155 degree water and mash for
an hour or so. Sparge grains w/ another 2 gallons of 170 degree water. Mix
in LME and bring to a boil. After the hot break add the EKG. At 30 minutes
add 1 oz Fuggles and the Irish Moss. Add the other oz  at  knockout. Crash cool
and pitch Wyeast 1333 stepped up to a 32 oz starter or 1 pkg Danstar
"Windsor" or "London" dried yeast stepped up to a 32 oz starter. I'm
immensely fond of the entire line of the Safeale yeasts as well.

After primary rack to a secondary. Fermentation should take about 2 weeks or
so. Bottle or keg in your usual manner. This stuff is awesome in a keg. I
have another recipe for a Rye/Wheat beer that is flavored w/ a little
chocolate malt. I call it Turbo-Wheat and it makes for my favorite summer
quaff . . .

Regards,
Dave Galloway
Coon Bottom Brewery
Chattahoochee, FL

Rennarian coordinates?
We don't need no stinkin' coordinates . . .

"Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I
should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul."

- --Thomas Paine





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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:01:47 -0500 
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Re: Saving Yeast

Nils Hedglin asks:
Is there a way to save the yeast left over after a batch is done?  

Nils, I'm sure there are many ways and some may be better than
others.  I save yeast all the time.  In fact more likely than not
when I rack from the primary to the 2ndary I will save the yeast.
The procedure I use is to leave just enough fermented beer in
the primary after racking to loosen the yeast cake from the 
bottom of the fermenter.  I use carboys as fermenters.  Then
my brewing partner, aka my wife Kim, takes a new ziploc 1 gal.
freezer bag and opens it up so I can dump the liquified slurry
from the carboy into the bag.  Kim then will get most of the air
out of the bag and seal it.  We keep the slurry in the fridge
until we are ready to make a starter for our next batch.  There 
is even a place on the bag you can use to label the bag so 
you know what kind of slurry it is and the date you collected it.
We use a freezer bag because it is much stronger than the 
normal ziploc storage bags.  We don't want the bag to split
open in the fridge.

A few things about our procedure.  I learned this from a 
fellow home brewer, Chris Frey, about 3 years ago.  Since then
I have found that many other home brewers use the same 
procedure to save yeast.  The ziploc bags do not need to be
sanitized as they come sanitized from the factory.  Just make 
sure the bag comes out of the box completely sealed .  We 
always make a starter when reusing the saved yeast.  Some
home brewers do not.  In either case we start by taking the 
bag out of the fridge and let it warm up at least two hours 
before we're ready to use it.  The way we get the slurry
out of the ziploc bag is to first sanitize the out side of the bag
by submerging the bottom half of the bag in sanitizer (we use
Star-San).  Also, sanitize a pair of scissors.  When you are 
ready to "let the yeast out of the bag", hold the bag by one
of the top corners.  This will cause the slurry to collect at one
of the bottom corners.  Take your sanitized scissors and cut 
about 1/2 inch off the other bottom corner.  Then pour the 
slurry out of the hole into your starter container or fermenter,
however you decide to use it.

Like I said there are many ways to save yeast slurry, but this
way has worked for us.  I have used the slurry after saving it 
for up to 2 months with no problems.  I'm sure there are 
others that have saved it longer than that.  Hope this helps.

We make the beer we drink!!!
Bob Barrett
Ann Arbor, Mi
(2.8, 103.6) Rennerian.  Ya, he's close.  Real close.


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Date: Fri, Apr 5 2002 9:15:48 GMT-0500
From: Jim Busch <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: CCF filling

<Now, I know 'FER' a fact that Jim would rather 
<fill any vessel from the bottom up...so, he 

yeah, but I chose not to use a pump on the
wort cast off stage, instead I use gravity
from my brewhouse above the cellar.  Second
port is easy to clean and also allows me to
pump O2 into the tank with a stone (one of 
these days Ill place it inline...).  This 
also saved some costs of more fittings and
valves.  BTW, Spunding rules!

Jim



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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:25:42 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pilsner plans

Dave Riedel <RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca> writes from Victoria, Canada

>I plan to make a batch of Czech Pils mid-month.  I will be
>using Beeston's Chariot Pils for the base malt.  Does anyone
>have any thoughts on a good mash schedule?  My initial plan
>was to mash in at 104F, pull a decoction, convert it at 158F,
>meanwhile raise the main mash to 140F (hold for about 15')
>then use the single decoction to raise the temperature from
>140F to around 152F for conversion.  However, I'm not certain
>that decocting is worth the effort.
>
>Anyone have a good Pils method?

You haven't mentioned how your are going to raise your decoction from 
104 to 158 for conversion, or the main mash from 104 to 140.  Hot 
water infusion?  RIMS?

Regardless, you are going to overshoot your 152F target when you add 
your decoction.  If you pull the thickest third of your mash and 
return it at boiling temp, you will get a rise of about 1/3 the 
temperature difference.  Since the difference between 140 and 212 is 
72F, then it would rise ~24F to ~164F.  (As high as this is, it is a 
temperature I have seen reported used in Europe).

Since we are assured by the manufacturers that modern malt doesn't 
require a decoction for conversion, and some of the temperatures (in 
the 120-135 F range) may actually be detrimental if held for long, 
I'd say skip it.  How about a pseudo-decoction?  I got this idea from 
some of Hubert Hanghofer's (whose participation here is missed) 
posts, although I can't remember if he actually recommended this 
exact method.

Mash in half your grains and water at somewhere around 146F (for a 
well attenuated beer like a German pils) to 153 (for a less 
attenuated one, like a Czech pils).  Then after 20-30 minutes, bring 
this to a boil.  After a suitable period, add enough cold water to 
bring to a strike temperature and add the rest of your malt to get 
your second rest temperature, which might be the same as your first 
or higher, depending on style (as high as 158F for less attenuation). 
Rest this until conversion is complete, then proceed as usual.

This method gives you the possible flavor benefits of decoction 
(which has been discussed ad nauseam here before) without worrying 
about steps.  There are plenty of excess enzymes in the second half 
of the malt to convert the starches liberated by the boil of the 
first half.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 10:27:59 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: saving yeast

Nils,

Welcome to the Cheap Brewers of America Club (CBAC).  As
your President, I have tried many ways to get the total cost
per batch down to infinitesimal levels.  Yeast can be one of
the biggest costs per batch.  But don't despair!  The CBAC's
crack research team has been brewing cheaply for 10 years
and our collaboration with the PrimeTabs Yeast Abuse
Research Center allows us to offer you help.

1)  if you're going to brew within a month of draining off
the "sludge" then you simply need to store the yeast in a
sanitized container.  Dump it in your beer when the wort is
ready and you're good to go.

2)  If you are not going to brew that quickly, then dump a
half pint of yeast sludge in a sanitized quart Ball jar.
Add a pint of fresh wort and let it ferment out COMPLETELY.
Store in a fridge until you're ready to use the yeast.  Dump
it directly in your batch if used within two months.

3)  If you still haven't brewed with the yeast after two
months then you must perform the ritual acts of #2, decant
(in the sink or in your mouth) the fermented wort off the
yeast sediment, add a quart of fresh wort, shake like hell,
and add to your batch when you see fermentation start in the
jar.  Yeast can be revived this way for upwards of six
months.  But the original yeast sludge must be stored in a
refrigerator for the whole time.


Of course in order for any of this to work you must first
add the ritual hops to your mash.  Sprinkle across the top
of your mash while circling the tun counterclockwise and
"dropping" PrimeTabs all the while.  Your yeast will then
understand how serious you are about saving their souls from
the evil sewer.


Cheerios!
- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC
"Brewing like one cheap bastard since 1992"



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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 10:44:17 -0500
From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com>
Subject: Grain mills

Jon,

FIRE IN THE HOLE!

I recently bought a Barley Crusher (http://www.barleycrusher.com/) and
after a small modification seems to be working fine.  (I have only done
one batch with it so far.)  The price was right were I wanted it to be.
It has a huge hopper and is adjustable on both ends.  It may be readily
motorized with a drill but are cautioned against a belt and pulley
arrangement.  It is attached to a board to fit over the typical bottling
bucket.

It has a huge hopper but unlike the JSP and Valley Mill (the only others
I am familiar with) it does not funnel the grain down to a narrow
opening above the rollers but lets the full 6 inch or so gap pull grain
in.  This makes it just a little harder to crank since more grain is
going through for every revolution.  The JSP and Valley restrict the
amount of grain admitted to the rollers and although it does spread out
on them, it probably does not go all the way across the gap.  Therefore,
they crank a little easier.  On the other hand you can crush a bit
faster with the BC

At the bottom corners of the hopper there were relatively large gaps
where the pieces come together that allowed uncrushed and partially
crushed grain to get by the rollers.  Narrowing the gap did not help and
I was not impressed with my test crushes.  I took some metal duct
sealing tape and closed up these gaps putting slivers of tape on the top
and bottom such that none of the adhesive was exposed.  You only need a
wrench, Phillips screwdriver and 30 seconds to take the hopper off.
This cured the problem and I got a great crush.  So much so that I may
open the gap back up to 0.045 (factory default).  The batch had 79%
efficiency.

The BC is adjustable on both ends of the rollers and is a piece of
cake.  You need a screwdriver to loosen the set screw, but the adjuster
knobs have just the right amount of tension so there is little if any
backlash when you tight the set screw.  The knobs are  indexed to show
you 0.045 but you need feeler gauges to see where you are otherwise.
Since I already have a set, that is not a problem.

Attaching a drill to the BC is easy and the drive shaft was designed
with that in mind.  No adapters are needed.

Its going to take a couple of additional batches for me to get a better
feel for the BC but overall I think it will match the JSP and Valley in
terms of crush quality.  I want to bring it over to a co-worker who has
a JSP and compare the knurling on the rollers.  I am also toying with
the idea of making a restrictor plate like the JSP to limit the rate
that the grain hits the rollers.  I don't know if this will affect crush
quality.  I'll try to remember to let you know.

- --
Take care,
Mark





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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:43:52 -0500
From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles at TheStewarts.com>
Subject: Hazelnut Flavo(u)r

Why not just add some Frangelico hazelnut liqueur, either pre-fermentation
or in the glass as you pour?

Chip Stewart
Charles at TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com

Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:32:47 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Saving Yeast

Nils,

You can save yeast from a previous batch.  Check out the instructions
for Yeast Washing at Wyeast's website:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm

They claim you can store your yeast for up to one month in the
refrigerator.  I'd bet it would last a while longer, though it might get
sluggish.

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Rennerian


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Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:15:58 -0600
From: "Steve Heffner" <potatopotato at earthlink.net>
Subject: Conical chilling

Hey now,

I'm building a chamber to control temps for fermenting / lagering.  I built
a styrofoam box large enough to hold a conical or a couple of cornies
with a plywood floor to spread the weight.  I am going to pipe in cold air
from an old frig (that one of my neighbors graciously donated to the
cause) via flexible dryer hoses, running through the sides of the frig and
chamber.  The supply hose will have a muffin fan pulling into the
chamber, and the return hose will have a flap valve to stop flow when the
fan is off.  Then I'll have another fan inside the chamber to circulate the
cool air.  These are brushless computer fans, and they are small, like an
inch or two, and only cost a few bucks from the American Science
Center.  The small size will slow the cooling rate so that the thermostat
that drives the fans can react before freezing the chamber.  The
thermostat will regulate chamber temp., and I'll adjust for the dT from
chamber to wort as the fermentation progresses by observing the
fermenter dial thermometer.  

I won't have to deal with coolant, pumps, leaks or chilling coils this way.
Also, I can stack two chambers high, and on either side of the frig, for a
number of kegs and temperatures.  The flex hoses will allow me to move
the frig and chambers independently if required.  The frig will remain
around 32 deg F for crash cooling.  And I'll have to plumb the airlock to
the outside, of course.

That's the plan, anyways.

Steve Heffner
West End Brewery
La Grange, IL
[210.6, 262.3] Rn, apparently
58 FLH / SYF



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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:32:53 -0500 
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: CCF Chiller

Since folks are still tossing out ideas on how to chill conicals, I thought
I'd give my idea. It is a similar concept to Son of Fermentation Chiller,
but uses a freezer to supply the cold air instead of jugs of ice, and
incorporates a stand covered by an insulated box.

I use this concept to chill my current fermentation chamber, which is 4 x 4
x 1 1/2 ft, and I can get it down to 30F even in the summer. One thing that
I've found is critical to the design is to prevent any air exchange when the
fan is off.

Take a look if you're interested:
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/ccf_chiller.htm

Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew




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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:09:19 -0500
From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net>
Subject: Hot Pepper Beer

I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a hot pepper beer. This
could be in the form of recipe's, best types of peppers, grains that
compliment the heat from the peppers etc. Is this a worthwhile project or am I
just getting carried away?Thank you.



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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 21:23:48 +0200
From: Arnaud VIEZ <arnaud at viez.net>
Subject: UK-Homebrew

Is there any HBD readers who s_ubscribed to the uk-homebrew digest? I
just can't s_ubscribe, I always get the same return message :

<uk-homebrew-request@ rhbnc.ac.uk>: host
smtp1.rhbnc.ac.uk[134.219.102.163]
    said: 550 Unknown local user 'uk-homebrew-request'

Is there a problem with this list? Thank you in advance if you can tell
me how to s_ubscribe.



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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 15:11:32 -0500
From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net>
Subject: Hot Pepper Beer

Another issue I was wondering about. Do I put the peppers in the bottle/keg or
do I add to secondary or both? If I put in bottle will it screw up the yeast
and make the beer hazy? All grain recipe? Thanks in advance!

Colby Fry
Orrstown, Pa



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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 16:19:02 -0400
From: Russ.Hobaugh at erm.com
Subject: Russian Imperial

I just brewed my first Russian Imperial stout, and have some
questions for the collective.  This started at 1.092 and was finished
in less than 3 days(I pitched it on the cake of a dry irish stout using
Wyeast 1084.). I used my lagering fridge to keep the temp in the 
upper 60's.  My questions are: how long should a leave it in the 
secondary? And should I add fresh yeast at bottling or will there 
be enough yeast left to do the job?  TIA

Russ Hobaugh
Goob' Dog Brewery, Birdsboro PA


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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 17:19:41 -0500
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dark DME and 4 lb cans..........

Greetings,

I have come across some homebrew supplies that I need to get rid of.  I
have lots of cans of LME in light, amber, and dark.  As well as some DME
Dark.  I haven't used this stuff in a while.  I was trying to put together
some kits and offer them to local club members.

Would  4 lb cans of Light and Amber DME, with say about 1 lb of 60 L
Crystal in a grain bag make a nice Fest beer or Special Bitter, with
appropriate hops and yeast?

Also what is the best use of Dark DME, a bock or stout?  How much, half of
the fermentables?

I appreciate any responses.

Regards,

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC





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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:55:03 -0600
From: "Mike Brennan" <brewdude at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Clear Weizen

I too have had problems with clear weizens, with as much as 70% wheat malt.
I believe the yeast has something to do with it.  While the Wheinstephan
Wyeast 3068 is a great banana/clove producer, when it poops out it
completely falls out of solution.  Can it be that it drags some of the
proteins and haze particles with it?  I can't see how that would happen.
There is an old saying, when you get fed lemons make lemonade.  I have
learned to accept it, and now just enter the beer as a krystal wheat when it
happens.  Judges will usually give you bonus credit for getting it so clear,
they are mystified and think you spent some energy and money filtering.



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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:27:22 -0700
From: "Michael J. Westcott" <mikew at sedona.net>
Subject: Re: Clear Wheat Beers

I've brewed many wheat beers (Bavarian weizens) and often have
relatively clear beers with a lengthy (>10 days)secondary fermentation. Did
you do secondary fermentations on these beers?  Most of my weizens go from
primary(10-12 days) straight to the bottle, and are primed with first
runnings from the mashtun as speise and lager yeast.  A lengthy secondary
will produce a very clear weizen if done at 40-45 F.  The one I'm drinking
now spent 5 days in the secondary at 45F for cold conditioning and the haze
is right on when compared to commercial examples, even though Irish moss was
used.  Hope some of this helps, Mike.



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Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:03:24 
From: "chris eidson" <eidsonc at hotmail.com>
Subject: radiator chilling

Lonzo McLaughlin considers using an auto radiator for chilling . . .

Coincidentally, my wife relayed to me a story just yesterday of one of her 
patients who happens to be in renal failure from lead poisoning secondary to 
using a car radiator to brew moonshine. Scary stuff.

Chris Eidson
Birmingham, AL



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