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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  2002 Bay Area Brew Off announcement ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Beer Style descriptions ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Pellet Makers..? ("Herb G.")
  Re: Classic Beer Styles books (Bill Wible)
  RE: why ask why ("Guy and Norine Gregory")
  Pre-boil to post-boil gravity conversion ("Fox, Daniel")
  An Interesting Phenomenon ("Dan Listermann")
  Second Season Hops ("William Steadman")
  BJCP guidelines ("Brian M Dotlich")
  Copper Kettles (Al Klein)
  More Nightmares For Steve ("Phil Yates")
  california common ("John Misrahi")
  UV light as a sanitizer ("Greenly, Jeff")


*
* HOPS BOPS XIX   Entry Deadline 4/17/2002
* Details: http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/   
*
* 2002 Bay Area Brew Off entry deadline is 5/20/2002
* Details: http://www.draughtboard.org/babopage.htm
*
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* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
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* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:33:15 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <bgros at aggienetwork.com>
Subject: 2002 Bay Area Brew Off announcement

Announcing the 15th annual National Bay Area Brew Off homebrew competition.
This year held in conjunction with the Alameda County Fair. AHA Sanctioned.

Details at http://www.draughtboard.org/babopage.htm

Note that since we're working with the county fair, the entry process is
a little different.
    *  Entry fees and forms are due by May 20.
    *  Actual bottles of beer are due by June 14th.

Most AHA styles accepted. Entry fee $5/entry
Open to ALL homebrewers in the US, Canada and beyond.
Cash prizes and more.
Judges and stewards can sign up on the web page as well.

Hope to see you there.

   - Bryan



Bryan Gros       babo at draughtboard.org
Oakland, CA

Draught Board Homebrew Club          http://www.draughtboard.org



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:44:48 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <bgros at aggienetwork.com>
Subject: Beer Style descriptions

Althelion at aol.com wrote:
><snip> I'm getting the impression that there is a widening gap between the
>BJCP guidlines and the descriptions/recipes in the Classic Beer Style 
>books. Comments?

Keep in mind that the BJCP style guidelines were written for a specific 
purpose.
It was written for brewers and judges entering and judging in homebrew 
competitions.
Styles were included at the time if the committee felt there was enough 
interest for
brewers to brew and enter those styles (hence, no Scandinavian lager, etc). 
The
descriptions were kept broad enough to allow for creativity and to take 
into account
the biggest commercial examples, but the attempt was also to keep them 
narrow enough
for judges to judge.

The Classic Beer Style books were written with a different audience in 
mind. And also
by one or two authors (rather than a committee of judges), so the 
descriptions in the
books are more likely to reflect the opinions and biases of the author. 
They are often
broad enough to include many commercial examples as well as historic examples.

I don't know if this potential gap is widening. It is probably time for a 
new committee
to take a look at the guidelines again, though. Feel free to get involved 
if you like.



Bryan Gros       babo at draughtboard.org
Oakland, CA

Draught Board Homebrew Club
http://www.draughtboard.org



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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:22:08 -0400
From: "Herb G." <G8810 at spamnot.com>
Subject: Pellet Makers..?

Does anyone out there know of a place that makes pellet dies, for making
hops pellets?
I was thinking of making my own pellets from fresh hops, something along

the line of a pill press, or basically a piece of steel with a bore in
it, to fill with fresh hops, & pound them in with a steel rod until
compacted, then push them out the bottom of it via a swinging doortype
contraption. Any help will be greatly appreciated. TIA, Herb G.



- --
Everyone has to have something to believe in.
I believe I'll have another beer.
The Quest for a better beer continues.




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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:47:46 -0400
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Beer Styles books

I also am a fan of these books.  I have all of them, and will
continue to buy them as they come out.

They've done Pale Ale twice, because its the most common style
brewed I suppose, but I'm not so sure that book needed to be
redone.  The new one doesn't read a heck of a lot different
from the original.  If they were going to re-do it, perhaps they
could have redone it as 2 separate books, one for American Pale
Ale and one for British or English Pale Ale.

I was very happy when they published a Mild Ale book, and the
fact that it as a separate book, not just a chapter in the
Brown Ale book.

I'd like to see books added to the series on the following:

 - Pre-Prohibition Lagers.  I think there is enough data on this,
and enough recent interest in this style to warrant its own book.

 - Scottish Ales (I think this one is either being worked on or
may have been recently released.  I don't have it if its available)

 - Mead (and all of its categories and subcategories, like
cyser, melomel, etc.)

 - Fruit Beer - with a good section and lots of tips on the
right way to brew with fruit.

 - Herb and spice beers - There are enough of these around now
to put a good book together: Ginger Beer, Heather Ale, a good
collection of spiced ales/Christmas Ale recipes, etc.

In the same vein as this thread, I'd also like to see someone
publish a new and up to date hops book.  Many new varieties of
hops have been introduced over the past 5 or 6 years alone, and
there is little to no information on many of these in any books
I can find.

The main book I have - Using Hops by Mark Garetz - is so
outdated now as to be almost useless.  I also have Homebrewer's
Garden, which isn't of much help, and Homegrown Hops which is
about growing your own, but doesn't go into the new varieties,
either.

I feel there is a crying need for an up to date hops book.
Anybody know of a good one I missed?

Bill
- --------------------------
Brew By You    
3504 Cottman Ave.
Philadelphia, PA 19149
215-335-BREW (PA)
215-335-0712 (Fax)
www.brewbyyou.net
- ---------------------------




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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:26:32 -0700
From: "Guy and Norine Gregory" <guyg at icehouse.net>
Subject: RE: why ask why

Greetings after a long absence.

Yes, I still brew.  I began brewing because I'm fundamentally cheap, but
like quality.

Then I brewed 'cause I loved the collision of science and art, and the
corresponding removal of the evidence.

Now I brew to relax, unwind, get some bloody time to myself, and because I
love the smell of boiling hops.  And I don't seem to get to brew much
lately.

But, I'm back in the saddle with a rye in the carboy and a couple of new
ideas behind my eye.

Cheers to all

Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
Spokane, WA

6087.2, 346 Rennerian according to the calculator, but frankly, I think that
puts me in Kamchatka.



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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:31:29 -0700
From: "Fox, Daniel" <DFox at stmartin.edu>
Subject: Pre-boil to post-boil gravity conversion

Bob Shotola wrote:
>In an unrelated story.... Saturday while listening to Car Talk I
sparged grain with the magical creaking whirligig and then stirred up
the 6 collected gallons and took a preboil hydrometer reading of 1045. I
have an aversion to 
messing with cooled wort so I did not take another sample after boiling
and cooling. I boiled off a gallon of water. What was the gravity of the
subsequent five gallons of boiled wort?  According to my points per
pound and 
extraction rate I should have gotten a 1052 OG after the boil. Thanks.
If there is a reliable conversion for finding OG from preboiled wort, I
can shelve my wort thief. 
>

 
This is a simple method I use, I don't recall where I got it but it
seems to work well. Take your gravity, subtract one, and then multiply
by 1000 (or use gravity in degrees Plato). Multiply this by your preboil
volume in gallons to calculate your total "point-gallons". For a preboil
gravity of 1.045 you would end up with 45*6 = 270 point-gallons. Divide
this by your final volume to get your post-boil gravity. If you boiled
down to 5 gallons, your gravity would be 270/5 = 54, or 1.054.
 
Dan Fox

 


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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:10:49 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: An Interesting Phenomenon

I was discussing the progress of two meads I have fermenting in my shop with
a customer.  One was obviously still fermenting and the other was over with
and settling out.  I made mention of this to him.  He rapped his fingernails
against the carboy that was settling and said that it still had a while to
go.  I looked at him funny.  Then he rapped his nails against the one that
was still very active and there was a distinct difference in the sound.  The
actively fermenting carboy sounded very dull where the seemly finished
carboy had more of a ring to it.  I went to a very finished clear carboy of
wine and rapped it.  It rang like a bell.  It seems that stuff (yeast and
the like) in suspension greatly dampens the vibrations of carboys.  My
customer could judge the progress of a fermentation by the sound of his
fingernails on the shoulder of a carboy.  How useful this is to a sighted
brewer or winemaker I don't know, but it would be really cool to show a
blind person.

 Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com

Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum.  It is my new hobby!





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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:08:44 -0500
From: "William Steadman" <mrwes at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Second Season Hops

I have two Cascade hop plants now in their second growing season. With the
recent warm weather here in the Chicacgoland area they both have about 12
bines sprouting up now. Since I only keep 2-3 bines for further growth,
should I snip the excess bines now or wait? I've also read about some people
sniping all of them in the early spring, as more will develop as spring
progresses.

Thanks,
Bill




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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:13:31 -0500
From: "Brian M Dotlich" <BMDotlich at cs.com>
Subject: BJCP guidelines

Fred Scheer wrote in HBD #3914

"I personally think that the BJCP study guidelines
have to be updated and other chapters have to be completely
re-written."

I personally think that BJCP guidelines have become far too narrow.  I
recently had a lager that I entered into a contest as a Municher Dunkel.  It
was panned by the judges because it had too much hop flavor and bitterness.
All 4 judges said that it was an excellent beer that was not to style.  I
looked through the BJCP guidelines and could not find a style category that
my lager would fit into.

This is what really bugs me about homebrew contests.  They are not about
brewing good beer.  They are essentially exercises in conformity.  To me,
beer should be judged on its own merits and not according to how well it
conforms to some narrow and arbitrary definition

Brian Dotlich
Indianapolis IN



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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:04:41 -0400
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Copper Kettles

John Palmer said:

>I am speculating that they are not pure copper, they are likely brass 
>(Cu/Zn) or bronze (Cu/Sn), but either would be fine.

Take a close look at a timpani next time you see one.  That color is
copper.

>You do 
>not, repeat do not, want to clean the copper shiny bright between uses. It 
>should turn a dull copper color with use. You want the passive oxide layer 
>to build up to minimize the dissolution of copper into the wort.

What color are immersion coolers?  Dull or shiny like a brand new
penny?
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:11:01 +1000
From: "Phil Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: More Nightmares For Steve

I'm not in the business of unduly disturbing Steve Alexander's sleeping
patterns, but I am prompted to ask a question. Steve showed considerable
concern about the oxidation effects of mash shovelling.

Here is another procedure of mine which Steve might like to comment on. I
use a simple gravity system to send my sparge water down to the mash tun. To
achieve this, I bucket (as opposed to shovel) water up to my hot liquor tun.
There must be a lot of oxygenation going on as I pour buckets of water into
the hot liquor tun. All these nasty bubbles of oxygen are free to run down
into my mash tun and I cringe to think of the damage that must be going on
in there.

I use this procedure because my sparge vessel is not large enough to house
all the water I require, and must be topped up during the lauter. This
irresponsible act of mine, coupled with my mash shovelling, must make me the
king of HSA.

But despite this horrific abuse, I still seem to be able to produce good
beer. What is going on Steve? I haven't slept a wink since you mentioned the
evils of mash shovelling. Now I realise I am pumping oxygen into every
aspect of the "hot side"of brewing but despite my best efforts, I can't seem
to upset the final product.

There must be something about all this obscene oxygenation which just isn't
working for me.

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:39:16 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: california common

I am planning a batch of California Common.
Can anyone give me guidelines for my recipe? Extract w. specialty grains, or
Partial Mash (i can mash about 4-5 pounds of grain maximum at the moment).
I will use WhiteLabs Sanfranciso Lager yeast. Do i still need to keep it
cool, or is room temp (around 21Celcius/70Farenheit) ok? Is cooler still
better ?
I was thinking of using Northern Brewer (ive heard thats what Anchor Steam
uses) or Pride of Ringwood (okay, so im not a big traditionalist when it
comes to style).
What do you guys think?
thanks
John




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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:01:48 -0400
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: UV light as a sanitizer

This is a question for the more scientifically minded amongst the Kolectiv.

I recently read an article in one of my sustainable living magazines
regarding water purifiers that are being produced in Europe that use strong
UV light illuminating clear tubing coils through which aerated water is
passed. The theory, according to the article, is that the O2 in the bubbles
is changed in part to ozone, and that this effect, in conjunction with the
sanitizing power of UV radiation, kills most of the bugs, etc. 

Now, my interest as a homebrewer is obvious. My question is probably also
obvious. Is the theory behind this too bogus to be believed? I mean, on the
face of it, to this liberal arts major it seems rather plausable, initially,
but then I say to myself that there's got to be some flaw. What do you
think, comrades? 

Jeff
Mountain Home Brewing
Morgantown, WV


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