---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: More Nightmares For Steve ("Braam Greyling")
  Stopping by The Tusk (poem) (Darrell.Leavitt)
  re:BJCP guidelines ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Re: Pellet Makers..? ("RJ")
  Report from MCAB [0,0]Actual Rennerian (Jeff Renner)
  Re: UV light as a sanitizer ("Larry Bristol")
  pre/post boil gravity conversion (Daveandbetta930)
  Making Hop pellets / Style guidelines / UV sanitizing (David Harsh)
  Re: Classic Beer Styles books (Jeff Renner)
  Racking onto Primary Yeast ("Dennis Collins")
  RE: An Interesting Phenomenon ("Houseman, David L")
  re: Pellet maker and Italy (Bjoern.Thegeby)
  RE: BJCP guidelines ("Houseman, David L")
  UV (AJ)
  Filtering Wheat Beer ("Caryl Hornberger")
  competitions (Phil Wilcox)
  for whom the carboy tolls, beer oxidation, CA Common ("Czerpak, Pete")
  UV Light as a Sanitzer (Calvin Perilloux)
  3-step starters ("Frank Tutzauer")
  Merry Christmas! ("Frank Tutzauer")
  More Nightares... ("Parker Dutro")
  Re: Copper Kettles - Color (John Palmer)
  Beer Festival Organizing ("Bob")
  Pellet Makers..? (Al Klein)


*
* HOPS BOPS XIX   Entry Deadline 4/17/2002
* Details: http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/   
*
* 10th annual Spirit of Free Beer entry deadline is 5/11/02
* Details at http://www.burp.org/events/sofb/2002/
*
* 2002 Bay Area Brew Off entry deadline is 5/20/2002
* Details: http://www.draughtboard.org/babopage.htm
*
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:00:06 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Re: More Nightmares For Steve

Phil,

> But despite this horrific abuse, I still seem to be able to produce good
> beer. What is going on Steve? I haven't slept a wink since you mentioned
> the evils of mash shovelling. Now I realise I am pumping oxygen into every
> aspect of the "hot side"of brewing but despite my best efforts, I can't
> seem to upset the final product.
> 
> There must be something about all this obscene oxygenation which just
> isn't working for me.

You will not taste HSA if you finish the entire 50 litres (or more ?) 
the night after you transferred it from secondary   :-)

HSA takes a couple of days to weeks to surface. 

Cheers
Braam 


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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:16:17 -0400
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: Stopping by The Tusk (poem)

Stopping By The Tusk On A Summer Evening

(Based upon an original piece by
Robert Frost )

(The Blue Tusk is in Syracuse)

Whose Pub this is I think I know.
His apartment is in the city, so;
He'll surely see me stopping here
To watch his pints fill up with beer.

My little car must think it queer
To stop without a gas station near
Between Clinton and Franklin streets
The brightest evening of the year.

It gives its timing belt a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound's the pour
Of fresh Kilt Tilter through the open door.

The streets are lovely, bright, and steep,
But I have promises to keep,
And good beer to drink before I sleep,
And good beer to drink before I sleep.

by Darrell Leavitt, aspiring brewer,
and lover of the Blue Tusk



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:44:56 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re:BJCP guidelines

Brian,

you wrote:
"This is what really bugs me about homebrew contests.  They are not about
brewing good beer.  They are essentially exercises in conformity.  To me,
beer should be judged on its own merits and not according to how well it
conforms to some narrow and arbitrary definition"

I certainly understand your point. However, without style guidelines, judging
becomes uncontrollably subjective. I 'like' this beer better than that one,
but you 'like' that one better than this. Tastes are different, and the
guidelines give a basis for brewing and judging to style. This makes for a
level playing field - For Competitions. If you're brewing simply to drink, not
to compete, then it's wide open. Even then, if you have a beer that truly is
unique and doesn't fit in an existing style; you can always enter it into the
Specialty/Experimental/Historical category.

Mark Tumarkin






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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:17:45 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Pellet Makers..?

"Herb G." <G8810 at spamnot.com> wrote:

"Does anyone out there know of a place that makes pellet dies, for making
hops pellets?   I was thinking of making my own pellets from fresh hops,
something along the line of a pill press, or basically a piece of steel with
a bore in
it, to fill with fresh hops, & pound them in with a steel rod until
compacted, then push them out the bottom of it via a swinging doortype
contraption. Any help will be greatly appreciated. TIA, Herb G."

Herb,

The piece of steel (or bronze) with a bore is typical of how the die is
made.

However, pushing hops thru this will not produce that same kind of hop
pellets
you buy at the brew shop.  Those pellets have been forcefully extruded where
the heat & pressure generated has burst the luplin glands.

Ciao,

RJ
Lakes Region of NH







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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:31:32 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Report from MCAB [0,0]Actual Rennerian

(This got rejected from my "on-the-road" Hotmail account for >80 
character lines, so I'm resending it from home):

Brewers

Brewers

It's been a great MCAB here in in Cleveland.  Lots of great beers 
from great brewers - judging was a real pleasure and challenge since 
every brewer had to take a first in a qualifying competition to get 
here.  Best of Show came down to three great beers, and finally a 
wonderful Bohemian Pilsener brewed by Jeff Carlson of Grand Rapids, 
Michigan won out.  Congratulations, Jeff.

Dean Fikar of Texas and Rick Georgette of Michigan each took four 
firsts, and I think another brewer or two took two or three each.

The technical conference in the Great Lakes Brewery featured talks by 
HBDers Steve Alexander, Alan Meeker, AJ DeLange and Gordon Strong as 
well as others.  It was great to put faces with some names and make 
new friends and see old ones.  The hospitality suite at the hotel was 
the place to be each evening with lots of good beer and 
conversation.  The fact that the Craft Brewers Conference was in the 
same hotel meant that there were more familiar faces popping in. 
Thanks from this happy brewer to SNOBs and the other clubs and Great 
Lakes Brewery for their organization and hospitality.  I'm already 
looking forward to MCAB5, maybe in DC?

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:38:57 -0500
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Re: UV light as a sanitizer

On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:18:26 -0400, "Greenly, Jeff"
<greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> wrote:

>I recently read an article in one of my sustainable living magazines
>regarding water purifiers that are being produced in Europe that use strong
>UV light illuminating clear tubing coils through which aerated water is
>passed. The theory, according to the article, is that the O2 in the bubbles
>is changed in part to ozone, and that this effect, in conjunction with the
>sanitizing power of UV radiation, kills most of the bugs, etc. 

Do a Google search for "uv water purification".  The water from a
private well sometimes needs to be sanitized before usage.  In the US,
the three most common types of systems available use chloridation,
filtration, or UV light.  Chloridation systems require you to add
chemicals periodically.  Filters have to be replaced regularly.  The UV
systems seem to require the least amount of maintenance by the
homeowner and are gaining in popularity.


Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX   AR=[1093.6,223.2]
http://www.doubleluck.com




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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:40:07 EDT
From: Daveandbetta930 at cs.com
Subject: pre/post boil gravity conversion

Bob Shotola wrote   
>If there is a reliable conversion for finding OG from preboiled wort, I
can shelve my wort thief. 

Just get Promash. It says you got 1.054 at 5 gal post boil(60 min 
boil,average evaporation rate).


Dave
Balto.,MD


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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:42:13 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Making Hop pellets / Style guidelines / UV sanitizing

Herb G. asks about making your own pellets:

I've made my own plugs with a piece of pvc pipe, a wooden dowel and a
rubber mallet.  The process is pretty obvious if you think about it.  As
far as making pellets goes, I would think you would need to shred the
hops prior to pelletizing and I'm not a big fan of that idea.
- --------
Brian M Dotlich writes:
> ...it was an excellent beer that was not to style.  I
> looked through the BJCP guidelines and could not find 
> a style category that my lager would fit into.

That's quite common.  The only question is whether you like that beer
enough to make it for yourself and enjoy it.  

I pretty sure that you could find several similar stories from other
brewers - I've done what you described.  A couple times, I've even
rebrewed the "not to style beer" because I liked it.  Brewing for
competition isn't my priority.  If something fits the style guidelines
well, that's just a bonus.
- -------
Jeff Greenly <greenlyj at rcbhsc.wvu.edu> asks about UV light as a sanitizer:

I recall hearing about a brewery that had a bacterial contamination
problem in their water supply and an inline UV system was installed for
the purpose described.  I recall no details except for the contaminating
beasts were gram negative rods and the uv system solved their problem.

Both UV light and ozone can be used as sanitizers - the question would
be whether you need the added expense and effort in your current brewing
system.  But that's a question for you to answer.

Time to mail my taxes.

Dave Harsh
Bloatarian Brewing League				Cincinnati, OH



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:50:36 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Classic Beer Styles books

Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> writes from Philly:

>I also am a fan of these books.  I have all of them, and will
>continue to buy them as they come out. ... I'd like to see books 
>added to the series on the following:
>
>  - Pre-Prohibition Lagers.  I think there is enough data on this,
>and enough recent interest in this style to warrant its own book.

I've been encouraged to do this.  Ray Daniels pointed out that my 
Zymurgy article was already a major portion of the way to a book. 
George Fix and I had spoken of doing this together someday, but 
sadly, we've lost a valuable resource with his death.  George knew 
far more than I and had far more resources at his fingertips.

I have wanted to wait until I retire (an early one, maybe in five 
years?) because I want to visit industry libraries for historic 
information.  (Of course, it would help if I spoke German as much of 
American brewing was documented in Auf Deutsch before 1917).  But as 
Bill points out, there is interest now, and as another brewer pointed 
out, when I retire, it will be time for a second, expanded edition. 
Who knows?  I'm sure George expected to live many more years. 
Perhaps there is a lesson here not to wait to do things you want to 
do.  But time is an issue.

>  - Scottish Ales (I think this one is either being worked on or
>may have been recently released.  I don't have it if its available)

Well, I guess you don't have as many of them as you think. ;-)  Greg 
Noonan's excellent "Scotch Ale" was number eight in the series, 
published in 1993.  I think it is one of the best.  I especially like 
the historic background.  His research is a standard I would want to 
try to meet, which is basically what I was writing about above.  He 
clearly visited Scotland and had access to brewery records from past 
centuries.  He reprints a page from a brewing log of William Younger 
from 1849 from Scottish brewery Archive.  I would want to do no less. 
Of course, it's probably more enticing to visit Scotland than 
Milwaukee.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:53:31 -0400
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Racking onto Primary Yeast

This is old hat to most of you, but just remember the first time you tried
something that so amazed you that you just had to tell people even if they
looked at you and said "duh?".

Over the weekend I timed my brew day to coincide with the racking of another
beer.  I intended to just put the new beer onto the primary yeast cake of
the old beer.  I had read about this many times here and have heard about
some of my beer brewing friends do it but just hadn't done it myself.  Well,
a buddy came over just as I was putting the new wort into the carboy with
the 2" of yeast sludge.  We had a few beers over the course of the next hour
and before he left, we looked in on the 1 hour old wort to find it already
furiously fermenting.  There were protein globs flying around in there like
crazy, after only 1 hour!  After 4 hours the thing was blowing off foam like
crazy and the wort looked like one of those see-thru vacuum cleaner chambers
with the stuff flying around inside.  I was dumbfounded.

The results of this little experiment are nothing short of amazing to me.
Not only did fermentation start in less than 1 hour, but I didn't have to
sanitize a carboy, buy yeast, or make a starter.  As long as the beer tastes
Ok, (we'll see in a couple of weeks), this method is definitely on my
"repeat and recommend to others" list.

For a Wyeast 1056 ale yeast, how many times can I do this?

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:41:01 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: An Interesting Phenomenon

What a great "discovery."  Just think of the possibilities.  A.J. should
measure the sound of a standard carboy with standard 5 gallon fill for each
of the major beer styles at various phases of fermentation and with the
proper analysis determine what the equations are for the resulting ring.
Not too far behind the math would be the device to measure when fermentation
is complete.  A small electronic device with speaker/microphone that
attaches to the carboy, emitting a small sonic pulse and measuring the
return ping.  Phils Phonics Phermentation Detector would be born.  On a
serious note, this is interesting and the next beer/mead that I have in a
carboy will definitely be tested informally.   

Dave Houseman





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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:39:45 +0200
From: Bjoern.Thegeby at cec.eu.int
Subject: re: Pellet maker and Italy 


I am now looking at my hop shoots climbing happily up the vine. This is
their 
first year, so I cannot speak from experience. However, this will never
prevent 
me from speaking authoritatively on an issue and this is the outcome:

Pellets will require careful measuring and you will probably have losses
from 
bits that did not go in the hole. You will in the process also break open
the 
lupulin glands and run the risk of oxidation unless you get it right. I came
to
the conclusion that plugs is the best home growing option. A plug weighs
about 1/2 Imperial ounce. It is roughly 1 1/2 - 2 inches across. You weigh 
up the right amount, stuff it in a pipe (PVC strong enough?) and insert a
small 
length of round wood (diameter inside of pipe) from the bottom and another 
from the top, stand it on a workbench and wack the wood with a mallet. This
will give you standard weight plugs. I think this is an unsophisticated
version 
of the industrial process. If this works you will have the keeping qualities
of 
plugs and the filtering advantage of whole hops, not bad.

On another note, I read with great pleasure of the take-off of homebrewing
in Italy.
I did all-grain in Rome in 1992-96 and I felt very lonely. Great work guys!


Bjorn Thegeby
Waterloo


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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:54:32 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: BJCP guidelines

Brian Dotlich writes:  

"Fred Scheer wrote in HBD #3914

"I personally think that the BJCP study guidelines
have to be updated and other chapters have to be completely
re-written."

I personally think that BJCP guidelines have become far too narrow.  I
recently had a lager that I entered into a contest as a Municher Dunkel.  It
was panned by the judges because it had too much hop flavor and bitterness.
All 4 judges said that it was an excellent beer that was not to style.  I
looked through the BJCP guidelines and could not find a style category that
my lager would fit into.

This is what really bugs me about homebrew contests.  They are not about
brewing good beer.  They are essentially exercises in conformity.  To me,
beer should be judged on its own merits and not according to how well it
conforms to some narrow and arbitrary definition


Brian,

You are right, but you don't understand BJCP competitions.  How would you
want the judges to judge your "good" beer?  Based on their individual likes
and dislikes?  No one is saying you and anyone doesn't make a good beer.
Homebrewing is all about making what you like.  But I may not like it.  Or I
might not like a particular style.  But I can be an objective judge and
determine how closely, or not, you beer comes to some objective criteria.
Bryan Gros' post today hit the nail on the head about the purpose of these
style guidelines.  They aren't all inclusive.  Others complain that some of
the styles are too narrowly defined while other styles are too broad!
Competitions can and do add or delete styles as they see fit.  They provide
an objective set of guidelines around which brewers can brew and judges can
judge.  Yes, brewing is about making good beer (good is subjective).  The
conformity is so that we can objectively compare how closely various brewers
can control their recipes and processes to brew a beer that meets some
objective standards.  

I was a judge in a competition once the didn't have styles.  It all came
down to what a particular judge liked or disliked.  It was very subjective.


Rather than complain about the homebrew contests, don't enter.  Or better
yet, organize your own and set aside a category, or the whole competition,
for beers without styles.  

Dave Houseman


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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:13:30 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: UV

Ultravilolet light is definitely used for disinfection in the water
treatment industry. It's good for many, but not all bugs (won't touch
cryptosopridium cysts for example). Ultraviolet light is also used in
the water treatment industry for the production of ozone which is, in
turn, used for disinfection and cleanup of organics. Whether one can
combine the two I don't know. There is a patricular wavelength used for
destruction of microbes and I'll bet there is another which is optimum
for ozone production. I guess if done right it would be feasible to
acheive ozone generation and direct killing of microorganisms. The
question is whether this manufacturer does it right.




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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:05:00 -0500
From: "Caryl Hornberger" <carylmarx at hotmail.com>
Subject: Filtering Wheat Beer

Hi everyone!

I've recently deceided that I want to try and filter my wheat beers.  So the
last batch I made, I siphoned the beer into my fermentor through a 3 inch
circular stainless steel screen inside a large strainer.  At first I tried a
very tight mesh and it gunked up pretty quick and flow completely ceased.
So I tried several larger sized meshes.  Every time, within a minute, the
entire surface of the screen was covered in the same sort of gunky stuff.
It reminds me of the gunk that I find on the surface of my sparged grain.
I'm sure lots of people try to filter their beer to get rid of some of the
proteins/haze particles and such.  So how do they do it?

Thanks for any advice,
Caryl Hornberger
Fort Wayne, IN



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:51:50 -0400
From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: competitions

But how do you do that with 200 beers?? its too subjective. To even
approach fair, the same panel of judges would have to judge them all?
Can't be done. Palate fatigue, drunkenness etc... you have to break them
into categories and assign arbitrary standards in order to assure that
different groups of people can judge the same beers and get reasonably
similar results. Grouping similar beers together into something called
"Styles" is only the natural progression.

Your beer does fit into a category. It just wasn't Munich Dunkel.
German Alt might have been closer even though its an "Ale" category.
There is no rule saying you have to enter a lager in a lager category.
Hell, dimes will get you dollars  6b. American Amber Ale is best
bet--and if not 10D American Brown Ale. In fact this is where I would
enter it. Pete's Wicked Ale is the quintessential example of this style.
Its been a lager for at least 5 years now...

But if it doesn't fit in any of the 23 specific styles then you have
deviated from normal beer. And that's fine. Its great, and im sure your
beer is quite good. But in this case you have delved into the realm of
"Experimental" beers.

24. SPECIALTY/EXPERIMENTAL/HISTORICAL
Any ale or lager beer ...  Experimental beers that do not otherwise meet
the other established style categories may be entered here....

Finding the right category is the hardest part of entering a beer. What
you were targeting and what you ended up with are not always the same
thing. (a close second is correctly filling out the paperwork...) And
there is nothing to prevent you from entering the same beer in more than
one category.

In your example I would have entered it as a 8C. Northern German Alt and
a 10D. American Brown ale, just for kicks. And if I was feeling wealthy
24. Experimental. This category gets judged primarily on the individual
merits of each entry. What were they trying to accomplish? How well did
they do it?

If you want to make an argument for a Category 25. Damn Good Beer. Go
right ahead. A lot of professional brewers agree with you.

Phil Wilcox

 Poison Frog Home Brewer
 Warden-Prison City Brewers
 In Jackson, MI 32 Mi. West of Jeff Renner
 AABG, AHA, BJCP, HBD, MCAB, ETC., ad nausium...
 See our languishing and outdated website at http://hbd.org/prisoner




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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:06:49 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: for whom the carboy tolls, beer oxidation, CA Common 

Dan L. mentions the different tone of the actively fermenting carboy vs the
"quiet" carboy.  I would imagine all the CO2 being generated also might have
something to do with the different tone due to the large portion of gases
solubilized as well as rising up through the wine.

What about beer versus wine sound upon knocking? Barleywine vs. BMC?

Phils asks about his mash shovelling attitude.  One area that I have noticed
the biggest impact of oxidation in my kegged beers is the impact of large
amounts of munich or dark crystal malts.  For example, my alt which is 100%
munich appeared to stale much more early than my usual beers that are base
grain with "normal" 2 row.  Same goes for the beers with about 20+% dark
crystal present.  I know that Rogue often uses large amount of specialty
grains like crystal - perhaps this is why they use oxygen adsorber caps vs.
the normal caps?

JOhn M. asks for input on his steam recipe.  I'm not a fan of Pride of
Ringwood hops.  They always seem to throw a funnny taste to me.  I would
definitely use the all Northern Brewer hopping.  I've done this 2 or 3 times
and its very nice with some munich and a tiny bit of crystal in the mash.
Also, cool fementing at low temps is preferred to keep the brew malty and
very clean.

Pete Czerpak
Albany, NY



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:35:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: UV Light as a Sanitzer

Jeff Greenly considers using UV sterilisation for beer (or wort?):

>>water purifiers that are being produced in Europe that use 
>>strong UV light illuminating clear tubing coils through which 
>>aerated water is passed. 

That's that we use on our well water.  I'm not sure if the
water has to already be aerated (or if ground water is already
aerated enough), but yes, it's a standard procedure that works.

Now what would you use this on?  Beer?  Wort?  Yikes!
I cannot think of a more highly efficient way than this
to produce masses of mercaptan stench in your beer!  
Having beer in clear bottles is nothing compared to 
the dose you'd be giving it of UV this way.

Secondly, I know this works well on clear, clean water,
but I'm not so sure how well it would work in sterilising
silty, cloudy "beery stuff".

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA




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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:03:19 -0400
From: "Frank Tutzauer" <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: 3-step starters

I'm back!  Not that I'm all that frequent a poster, but my life turned
upside down between November and February, and although I did manage
to brew a couple of batches of beer during that time, I got *way*
behind on my digests.  But I read every single one, in order, and
caught up today!  It took me two months to do it, but I'm current
again.

Anyway, I've been brewing enough that I should know the answer to this
question, but I don't.  It concerns yeast starters.  My typical method
for normal gravity ales is to step up a smack pack twice, first to 500
ml, then to 1500ml, and to pitch at high krauesen.  For lagers and
high gravity ales I step up a third time, but that's pushing it as far
as adding too much starter wort to my beer, so I decant.  My question
is, assuming all else equal, which of the following two regimes would
produce the most yeast:

1.  Make a 500 ml starter.  At high krauesen, add another liter of
wort.  Let ferment out, chill, decant, and add a liter and a half of
wort.  Pitch at high krauesen.

2.  Make a 500 ml stater, add another liter at high krauesen, and
another 1.5 liters at high krauesen.  Let ferment out, chill, decant,
and pitch slurry.

Method 1 is what I've been doing because it plays to my bias of
pitching at high krauesen, but I got to thinking that maybe if I have
"enough" yeast to ferment 1.5 L of wort, them after decanting and
adding another 1.5 liters, I don't actually grow any more yeast at
this step because I already have "enough" to ferment the 1.5L.  In
method 2, the third step gives 3 L of wort, so the yeast will multiply
further.

Whaddya think?

 --frank in Buffalo



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:06:45 -0400
From: "Frank Tutzauer" <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Merry Christmas!

Did I mention I was busy between November and February?  So busy in fact,
that I didn't get around to celebrating Christmas with my Buffalo relations.
We bought gifts and planned to get together at a later date to exchange them
then.  But life got in the way, and before I knew it it was Easter, and we
hadn't exchanged gifts.  All right, we finally exchange gifts, and yesterday
I opened up my nephew's gift to me . . . a Bob Klein Beer Calendar!!!!

 --frank in Buffalo



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:42:00 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: More Nightares...

So this is the infamous HSA debate.  As a newer homebrewer, I have always
done what I can reasonably do to keep "HSA" down to a minimum.  As a result
of habit and conditioning, I will probably always be concerned with HSA.  It
may be fruitless anxiety, but science seems to tell another story.  If
someone could prove that HSA had no adverse effect on my product, I might
ease up a little.  Until then I'll think the extra work is evident in my
beer, even if it's just  the placebo effect!

Parker Dutro
Portland, Oregon



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:07:43 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Copper Kettles - Color

Al Klein posts:
 >>I am speculating that they are not pure copper, they are likely brass
 >>(Cu/Zn) or bronze (Cu/Sn), but either would be fine.
 >Take a close look at a timpani next time you see one. That color is
 >copper.

Not sure when I will see a timpani any time soon, but I am not surprised 
they are copper colored, since brass and bronze are copper alloys. If they 
are indeed more red than yellow it could be a commercially pure copper 
alloy instead of brass. Bronze is a bit more red than brass but it depends 
on which alloy.

 >>You do
 >>not, repeat do not, want to clean the copper shiny bright between uses. It
 >>should turn a dull copper color with use. You want the passive oxide layer
 >>to build up to minimize the dissolution of copper into the wort.
 >What color are immersion coolers? Dull or shiny like a brand new
 >penny?
Depends on how you treat them. Mine comes out of the wort cleaner than when 
it went in, but it still is a duller shade of copper than a shiny new 
penny, or a brand new chiller. I am talking about a uniform dull 
appearence, not a blotchy dark appearance which would be the type of oxide 
that will dissolve readily in the wort.

Hope this helps,
John


John Palmer
Monrovia, CA

How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html
Homepage
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer

Let there be Peace on Earth.



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:41:07 -0400
From: "Bob" <brew.beer at cox.net>
Subject: Beer Festival Organizing

Mighty Collective,

Looking for insights regarding organizing and throwing one heck of a
commercial beer festival for about 4000+ attendees.  Any and all comments
are welcome.  Success stories, horror stories, "you might want to think
about this...", well, just about anything that you might think relevant
would be appreciated.

Our club has volunteered the last four years to work (i.e., man the taps) a
fund raising micro festival.  This year we are taking a much more active
role and would appreciate your insights.  On top of the open invitation for
information in general, comments on getting breweries to commit to attending
the event would be great.

Currently our biggest incentive is a free nights stay at a very nice
historic hotel located right next to the event, the brewers have really
liked that.  We've traditionally had a catered VIP tent for sponsors and
brewers the day of the event.  Due to VA ABC issues (our agents in Roanoke,
VA are sticklers) we have been discussing canning the VIP tent and ,instead,
having a private show case of the beers the night before the festival.  The
reason being that the brewers, sponsors and local distributors can network
in a more leisurely environment.  Good idea, dumb idea?

Again, any and all comments are more than welcome.  Off digest responses
would be appreciated, I can later summarize the material for the collective
if there is interest.

TIA
Bob Bratcher
Treasurer & Webmaster
Star City Brewers Guild
http://hbd.org/starcity
Roanoke, VA







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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:28:04 -0400
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Pellet Makers..?

On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:10:07 -0400, in rec.crafts.brewing you wrote:

Herb G. asked:

>Does anyone out there know of a place that makes pellet dies, for making
>hops pellets?
>I was thinking of making my own pellets from fresh hops, something along
>the line of a pill press, or basically a piece of steel with a bore in
>it, to fill with fresh hops, & pound them in with a steel rod until
>compacted, then push them out the bottom of it via a swinging doortype
>contraption. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

A meat grinder with a plate with larger than normal holes?  Or would
that destroy the lupulin glands?
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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