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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  BrewingTechniques update (BrewingTechniques)
  Re: Filtering Wheat Beer ("Kent Fletcher")
  Lambic Article in March Saveur Magazine ("Jodie")
  Maintaining 65F Fermentation Temp. ("John Misrahi")
  Hefeweizen Mash Schedule (Len Safhay)
  RE: Racking onto Primary Yeast + In Praise of the Brotherhood ("Bob Hall")
  RE: Racking onto Primary Yeast (Bill Tobler)
  RE: HSA, competitions, fermenter sounds and St Pat's (Brian Lundeen)
  UV and other filtration devices (DHinrichs)
  style guidelines ("DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies")
  Celebrate National Homebrew Day! ("Monica Tall")
  Re: Classic beer Style books (Bill Wible)
  Styles (Scott Perfect)
  Brewing in the Australian bush (Jeff Renner)
  UV Light as a Sanitzer (Al Klein)
  Racking onto Primary Yeast (Al Klein)
  Maintaining cooler fermentation temps. ("Parker Dutro")
  Clear Wheat Beer ("chris eidson")


*
* HOPS BOPS XIX   Entry Deadline 4/17/2002
* Details: http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/   
*
* 10th annual Spirit of Free Beer entry deadline is 5/11/02
* Details at http://www.burp.org/events/sofb/2002/
*
* 2002 Bay Area Brew Off entry deadline is 5/20/2002
* Details: http://www.draughtboard.org/babopage.htm
*
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* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:14:17 -0700
From: BrewingTechniques <brewtech at earthlink.net>
Subject: BrewingTechniques update

If it's not one thing, it's another.

Because of all the "interest' in BrewingTechniques back issue 
fulfillment, I just wanted to update everyone with some important 
news. Consumer's Edge Network has been on a temporary hiatus due to a 
serious medical situation within its ranks. It was unplanned, and 
therefore no prior communication was able to be given. The good news 
is that a full recovery is on the horizon and things should return to 
normal in a few weeks.

No orders have been fulfilled in the past three weeks or so, though 
some new orders have been received and processed. The bottleneck is 
currently in fulfillment -- retrieving issues from inventory, 
packaging, mail prep, and delivery to the post office. All that 
should be getting back on track soon (I am doing some of it myself, 
as I am able).

I don't want anyone to think that anyone is taking their money and 
not delivering the goods, so I am stepping in to disclose the nature 
of the delay in fulfillment. The situation is unfortunate for all of 
us, not least of which is the person in the middle of the medical 
situation. I personally promise that all orders will be fulfilled, 
hopefully very soon.

Thanks for your continued trust in and support of BrewingTechniques.

Stephen Mallery



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:41:58 -0700
From: "Kent Fletcher" <kfletcher at socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Filtering Wheat Beer

Caryl,
If you want to filter your wheat beer, filter the beer, not the sweet wort.
It's not pracitcal to "filter" wort, breweries remove trub with a cetrifuge,
not filters.  Once your beer is finished, it's fairly easy to filter it if
you are kegging and force-carbonating.  Fill keg one, chill keg to 40F or
less. Connect filter (spun poly 5 micron works great for me) between keg one
and keg two (using two liquid QD's, connected out to out), apply CO2 to keg
one, vent keg two to control flow.  Force carbonate after flitering, ready
to serve!  The MoreBeer guys have setups and instructions, as do most
well-stocked Homebrew shops.



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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:32:32 -0400
From: "Jodie" <jodie at ga.prestige.net>
Subject: Lambic Article in March Saveur Magazine

Just received the March issue of Saveur magazine (A freebie subscription in
thanks for being such a good Chef's Catalog customer. I'm more the Cook's
Illustrated type.) and lo and behold, there's an article on Lambic, "Brewing
Flavor in Belgium." Can't comment since I haven't even tasted Lambic, but
you can be sure I'm terrible curious now!
http://www.saveur.com/SAV_Main/1,3136,18-1-139-0-0-0,00.html

Jodie Barthlow




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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:51:14 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Maintaining 65F Fermentation Temp.

Hi all

Thanks to all of you who have sent me advice on my quest to brew a
California Common. I am now thinking about fermentation temperature. The
recommended temperature for fermentation with White Labs San Francisco Lager
yeast is 65F. My room temperature is around 70F(so my thermometer tells me -
im more of a celcius kinda guy). Anyways, I was thinking of simple
'duct-tape-and-string' solutions to a fermenter by those couple of critical
degrees. A big fan? Sitting it in a basin of cool water? putting a big
t-shirt around it and keeping it wet? What have you guys done in similar
situations, say if your room temperature was high enough to encourage big
time fruitiness in ales or something.
I'm open to any creative but cheap solutions~

thanks all

John





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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:12:25 -0700
From: Len Safhay <cloozoe at optonline.net>
Subject: Hefeweizen Mash Schedule

I'm in a quandary about protein rests for wheat beers. The current
consensus and my own experience seem to suggest that today's malts not
only don't benefit from a protein rest, but that it's deleterious in
terms of its effect on body and head retention. Is this true of wheat
malts as well? All the literature indicates a protein rest for
hefeweizen, but the literature also indicates protein rests for barley
malts that would be contraindicated today. Brewed my first wheat beer
last week and I sort of fudged it and settled on a relatively short 20
minute rest at 122 degrees. The grain bill was 65% Weissheimer wheat
malt and 35% Weissheimer pilsen malt. Any thoughts?

The beer has been in secondary since Friday which leads to another
question. Eric Warner in his German Wheat Beer book calls for bottling
direct from primary. I habitually employ nice long secondaries to
condition the beer on ample yeast, but I don't know how desireable it is
to "clean up" a hefeweizen. Thoughts on this would be appreciated as
well.

Len Safhay



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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:14:41 -0400
From: "Bob Hall" <rallenhall at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Racking onto Primary Yeast + In Praise of the Brotherhood

Dennis Collins wrote about the wonders of pitching on top of a yeast cake. 
Yes, Dennis, it seems truly amazing. I try to time my batches in three's ... 
not that the yeast can't go longer but because the supply begins to exceed 
the demand. In Feb. I did a blonde, red, and porter in succession (tip, 
always go from light to dark, lighter flavored/hopped to more strongly 
flavored/hopped) and currently have an alt that was pitched on an alt that 
was pitched on a kolsch. If you think 1056 rock-n'-rolls, try 1007 German!

You'll get a lot of different opinions on how many times yeast can be 
repitched. I've talked with brewmasters who have been concerned with 
mutations after a repitch or two .... then again I was talking to the brewer 
in one of my favorite brewpubs who said that they'd repitched "hundreds of 
times. The yeast likes it here." I think I've read on this list that the 
rule of thumb is half a dozen repitchings.

And while on the subject of brewers and brewmasters, I just want to express 
what a joy it is to have this list and the network of brewers around the 
country. Just returned from a trip to St. Paul and Des Moines. Had some 
wonderful brews in the Twin Cities, chats with brewmasters, and a tour of 
the new Summit Brewing in St. Paul. OK, they're a regional brewer, but the 
tour was personal, informative, and the hospitality was tremendous. Contact 
Mark Karason at Summit if you're ever in the area. After St. Paul, I headed 
down to Des Moines to visit my brother. Had the chance to pop in on Rob 
Moline at the Court Avenue Brewing Company. I'd corresponded with Rob over 
the years with yeast questions, so it was great to put a face with the name. 
Again, great hospitality, sampling, and answers (darn, can I write this off 
as an educational expense?). Rob's situation was exactly the opposite as 
Summit ... how to adapt a brewpub within the limitations of a historic 
building. Great food too if you're ever in Des Moines.

I seldom plan a trip without checking for such points of reference along the 
way. Sure makes me a happier traveler.

Bob Hall,
Napoleon, OH







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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:20:49 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Racking onto Primary Yeast

Hey Dennis,
  Congrats on racking onto the yeast cake.  It's not an easy thing to do the
first time.  You look at that dirty, nasty carboy with the crud on the sides
and wonder, what the H*ll am I doing?   It does do wonders, and your beer
will be great.  I've never been able to get the timing right for more than
one or two times in a row, but four or five times would not be a stretch.  I
do save the yeast from some brews in sterile qt. jars on a regular basis,
using Wyeast's method for washing yeast.

Cheers
Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:44:05 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: HSA, competitions, fermenter sounds and St Pat's

OK, I'm not going to waste a lot of space quoting other people's posts. The
urge to share my comments on a variety of items will waste enough space on
its own. Standard disclaimer: the opinions expressed herein are largely for
entertainment purposes and therefore Glen Pannicke should swallow his coffee
before proceeding. 

First up, Phil's lack of HSA (just a brief sidenote here, it took me four
attempts at typing HSA before I realized it was my cursed Outlook
auto-correction making it appear as HAS). There is no question HAS (oh,
fine, have it your way) has a definite effect on beer flavour. However, I
have it on good authority from North Queensland that Phil's lagers have no
flavour, and are therefore impervious to damage.

On to the desire for a "Mighty Fine Beer You Brewed There, Sparky" category
in the BJCP set. Anyone who does not wish to conform to existing guidelines
is welcome to join the Amateur Winemakers of Canada, and compete in our
competitions. We have three classes: Light, Dark and Stout. Plenty of room
for subjectivity there, eh?

The topic of fermenter pinging got me to thinking: Is this technique
applicable to those of us who like to ferment in plastic buckets? Since I
have some wine underway in a 10 gallon white plastic fermenter, I decided to
take some observations. Each day at precisely 7 pm (there's no good
television on at that time on any day), I would venture down to the cellar,
take a specific gravity reading, and apply my finger smartly to the side of
the fermenter at precisely the halfway point of the fermenting liquid.
Details like this might bore some people but they are essential if
experiments are to be reproduced accurately. However, I refuse to divulge
the fermenter geometry as no good can come of that. The following
observations were made over a 7 day period:

Day 1. SG: 1.090. Sound: Thup.
Day 2. SG: 1.081. Sound: Thup.
Day 3. SG: 1.069. Sound: Thup.
Day 4: I was wrong, there was something good on TV. Decided not to risk
invalidating my results by taking a reading at a different time.
Day 5: SG: 1.034. Sound: Thup.
Day 6: SG: 1.022. Sound: Thup.
Day 7: SG: 1.014. Sound: Ding (no just kidding, it was Thup).

Although the fermentation is not finished, I have been able to draw some
preliminary conclusions. 

There is no question in my mind that the sound being made must be changing
with each passing day. Why this is not manifesting itself is unclear. In the
past, I have been able to clearly identify 10 different sounds made by
stubbing my big toe against something hard and unmoving, and been able to
correctly associate each sound to an impending level of pain. Perhaps the
vocabulary for plastic fermenter thupping simply has not evolved to the
level we now expect for beer tasting. In any case, I doubt I shall follow
this through to its logical conclusion. With spring having finally arrived,
I believe I shall turn my experimental nature to the long unanswered
question: Does grass grow if you watch it?

Finally (cue the applause), a public service for Lynne at St Pat's. In
another forum, Lynne has stated there is a topic here she is dying to
comment on, but doesn't want to risk putting in an appearance because it
will only bring out the St Pat's bashers. I have graciously volunteered to
"clear the road" so to speak, by bashing St Pat's ahead of time. I don't
think this will come as a surprise to Lynne, since she thinks of me as a...
Umm, pedantic procrastinator, or something like that with P's in it. Anyway,
here goes...

St Pat's is not perfect!

OK, maybe that was a bit brutal, but I wanted to make certain that Ms
O'Connor felt well and truly bashed, so there would be no reason for her not
to join in on the fun that is the HBD.

Cheers,
Brian Lundeen
Too much time on his hands at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:15:29 -0500
From: DHinrichs at Quannon.com
Subject: UV and other filtration devices


All this talk recently about UV disinfection and other water cleanup
methods. First UV is most likely only to be an option if you DO NOT use a
municipal water supply, i.e. a private well. A municipal water supplier
should be using one or more methods to ensure a safe supply of water. Even
if you do have a private well ideally it would not be contaminated with
micro-organisms, if it is you have a bigger issue than your brewing water.

As for which device to choose to treat your water if you feel it is
necessary I would recommend a water analysis to determine what condition
your water is in so you can treat it with the most effective method
available.

Once you have determined the treatment needs, how do you know which devices
are good and which is not? Keep in mind that no device can remove 100% of
anything most will list a percentage. The easiest method to determine if a
product is good is to look for one of several possible accredited listings,
many states also require this just to sell them. 

 "UL-pw"(Underwriters Lab-Potable Water)
 "NSF-pw" National Sanitation Foundation-potable water

Once you have chosen and installed the treatment devices do not forget the
maintenance. The standard cartridge type filters will need replacement after
3-6 months (depending on type filter media, water quality and water usage).
Chemical feed systems need to be kept filled, water softeners need salt
etc...

Side tale: I recently purchased a home the previous owner had installed a
"lifetime" carbon filter for the kitchen faucet. With the flow through the
filter at less than 1/2 gallon per minute I immediately removed it and
determined that is was over 5 yrs old. Just for fun I cut it open to see how
bad it really was, nearly packed solid with minerals from the water. Once I
reconnected the cold water, it ran rust red for several minutes till the
line clean was cleaned.  


Dave in Minnetonka, mn


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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:40:30 -0500
From: "DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies" <defalcos at insync.net>
Subject: style guidelines

   Regarding style guidelines, Brian wrote: "This is what really bugs me
about homebrew contests.  They are not about
brewing good beer.  They are essentially exercises in conformity.  To me,
beer should be judged on its own merits and not according to how well it
conforms to some narrow and arbitrary definition"  Mark Tumarkin's response
was: "I certainly understand your point. However, without style guidelines,
judging becomes uncontrollably subjective. I 'like' this beer better than
that one, but you 'like' that one better than this. Tastes are different,
and the guidelines give a basis for brewing and judging to style. This makes
for a level playing field - For Competitions. If you're brewing simply to
drink, not
to compete, then it's wide open. Even then, if you have a beer that truly is
unique and doesn't fit in an existing style; you can always enter it into
the
Specialty/Experimental/Historical category."
   All this discussion reminded me that once upon a time we used to run a
category in the Dixie Cup that we called "No Commercial Comparisons."  This
would seem to be a reasonable compromise between those that would prefer no
guidelines and those that use the guidelines religiously.  Granted it is
only one category (and an extremely difficult one to judge, at that), but,
heck, with no style descriptions, how many do you need?  Okay, so that's
only three ribbons, but it does give you something to hang your hat on
without dictating the color, aroma, and flavor.  What do you think?  Later.
 . .

Scott Birdwell
DeFalco's
BJCP Competition Committee Chairman



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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:00:28 -0600
From: "Monica Tall" <monica at aob.org>
Subject: Celebrate National Homebrew Day!

Help the American Homebrewers Association celebrate National
Homebrew Day (May 7) with a day of worldwide simultaneous
brewing!

What: 5th Annual AHA Big Brew 2002
When: Saturday, May 4, 2002
*Big Brew kicks off with a worldwide simultaneous toast at noon CST.

The AHA will start things off with a pre-Big Brew party, including
beers brewed by the staff to share with local homebrew clubs and
AHA members on Friday, May 3.  Then, of course, the staff will
gather May 4 to participate in Big Brew festivities.

Check out the two Big Brew recipes at:
http://beertown.org/AHA/BIGBREW/

Register your site online and you can win a complete set of
Zymurgy magazines!

Fire up your burners, drink your favorite homebrew and start
brewing!

For more Big Brew 2002 information, call
1.888.U.CAN.BREW or +1.303.447.0816.

Big Brew 2002 Sponsor: Wyeast

Cheers to happy brewing,
Monica Tall
Sales and Marketing Coordinator
Association of Brewers            
736 Pearl Street                303.447.0816 x 108 (voice)
Boulder, CO 80302            303.447.2825 (fax)
U.S.A.                              monica at aob.org (e-mail)
http://www.beertown.org/









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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:10:10 -0400
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Classic beer Style books

>  - Scottish Ales (I think this one is either being worked on or
>may have been recently released.  I don't have it if its available)

Yeah, I have it.  That's what happens when you're writing
something at work and not at home where the books are.
That should also tell you how much I read that book.
;)

Bill
- --------------------------
Brew By You    
3504 Cottman Ave.
Philadelphia, PA 19149
215-335-BREW (PA)
215-335-0712 (Fax)
www.brewbyyou.net
- ---------------------------




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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:41:20 -0700
From: Scott Perfect <nospamto_perfect at marzen.llnl.gov>
Subject: Styles

Brian writes:

"I personally think that BJCP guidelines have become far too narrow.  I
recently had a lager that I entered into a contest as a Municher Dunkel.  It
was panned by the judges because it had too much hop flavor and bitterness.
All 4 judges said that it was an excellent beer that was not to style.  I
looked through the BJCP guidelines and could not find a style category that
my lager would fit into."

"This is what really bugs me about homebrew contests.  They are not about
brewing good beer.  They are essentially exercises in conformity.  To me,
beer should be judged on its own merits and not according to how well it
conforms to some narrow and arbitrary definition."

Yes, a very common complaint.  The other common complaint is that
contests are sometimes won by beers that are brewed out of style.

- -----

I have to agree with Jeff Renner's assessment of Noonan's "Scotch Ale."
A wonderful read - I've even loaned it to non-brewers who enjoyed the
book just for its treatment of Scottish brewing history.

- -----

Bill comments:
"They've done Pale Ale twice, because its the most common style
brewed I suppose, but I'm not so sure that book needed to be
redone.  The new one doesn't read a heck of a lot different
from the original."

Foster's original "Pale Ale" was written at a time when most homebrewers

considered adjuncts to be completely inappropriate.  I haven't seen the
updated version but I would guess that sugar or maize are no longer the
tools of the devil?

Scott A. Perfect
San Ramon, CA




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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:50:02 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Brewing in the Australian bush

Brewers

Think you brew under difficult conditions?  See 
http://www.hosted.com.au/~craftbrewer/gear/Phillipa/BushBrewing.html 
and see how  Phillipa Jarrett, who lives in the bush in Australia, 
brews.  She lives an eight hour round trip from the homebrew store, 
two hours from a jug of milk!  She brews all grain on a wood fire and 
chills her wort from their water tank, which is, of course, at a 
premium.  They use solar power so a brew fridge is out of the 
question.  Yet with all this, one of her beers took first place in a 
recent homebrew competition.

My hat is off to you, Philippa.  Hope to meet you and see your setup someday.

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:01:41 -0400
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: UV Light as a Sanitzer

Calvin Perilloux said:

>Now what would you use this on?  Beer?  Wort?  Yikes!
>I cannot think of a more highly efficient way than this
>to produce masses of mercaptan stench in your beer!  
>Having beer in clear bottles is nothing compared to 
>the dose you'd be giving it of UV this way.

I thought it was a particular blue-green wavelength that caused
mercaptan generation.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:01:41 -0400
From: Al Klein <rukbat at optonline.net>
Subject: Racking onto Primary Yeast

Dennis Collins asked:

>For a Wyeast 1056 ale yeast, how many times can I do this?

I just attended a talk given by Chris White (of White Labs) last
night, at which this was discussed.

Due to the stress the yeast is under (alcohol, gas pressure, osmosis,
etc.), he recommends 3 times.  You can push it until you get a bad
batch if you don't mind drinking 5 gallons of bad beer or dumping it.
According to Chris, though, the first signs that the yeast is going
bad will *usually* be lower attenuation or less flocculation.
- ---
[Apparent Rennerian 567.7, 95.9] 
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net


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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:21:55 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Maintaining cooler fermentation temps.

How can I get my primary ferment temperature down to 68 and hold it there?
I'm in need of a new project, and I'd appreciate any suggestions or
descriptions of prefered devices. I currently use a 6 gallon plastic bucket
for my primary. Thanks in advance.
Parker Dutro
P-town, Oregon



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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:28:09 
From: "chris eidson" <eidsonc at hotmail.com>
Subject: Clear Wheat Beer

Caryl--

Instead of filtering, would you consider a three step infusion mash?  If you 
are brewing with an all grain setup that can handle a large liquid to grist 
ratio, a three step mash (as outlined in John Palmer's, How to Brew online 
book) will result in a exceptionally clear beer in my experience.  Of 
course, this mash schedule will result in other effects on the finished beer 
but if clarity is the priority this may work well for you.  Extended bottle 
conditioning can make a big difference too, as recent posts have pointed 
out.  Hope this helps.

Chris Eidson
Birmingham, AL





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---