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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  RE: Adventures in Bottling ("Parker Dutro")
  re: guidelines ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Hefeweizen Yeast (Len Safhay)
  cooling option on conical (Daveandbetta930)
  Cleaning Stainless Steel ("Dennis Waltman")
  re:Fermentation Temperature Control (Jim Adwell)
  RIMS Heater limitation ("Steven Parfitt")
  Re: Adventures in Bottling (Demonick)
  Crystallization ("James Sploonta")
  RE: AHA, competitions and other forums (Brian Lundeen)
  RE:  Lynne/Business Bashing ("Biffy The Brewer")
  Carafa & De-Husked Carafa (Paddock Wood Customer Service)
  Lower the pH ? (Arnaud VIEZ)
  quick disconnects - source ("Roy Strohl")
  re: Adventures in Bottleing (Rama Roberts)
  Beer Description (kingkelly)
  constant sparge flow rate ("Ryan and Shelly")
  HSA problem? (alastair)


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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:19:17 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: RE: Adventures in Bottling

Mark,
after reading your post I thought I'd make a couple comments to see if they
might help you out.  I have never used prime tabs, only corn sugar, however
I do know that a head space of an inch or so allows the yeast to utilize the
trapped O2 in their coversion of the sugar and production of CO2 (not sure
how), and for some reason no headspace can prevent full carbonation.  Now
will this mean your beers won't carbonate, maybe, but you have options.
First of all, bottled beer will finish and mature better if stored at about
75 degrees or so.  This can be higher if you hope to speed up carbonation,
but not too high.  Try this, first, and give them a couple more weeks.  You
can disturb the yeast by shaking a little to re-suspend them, but only if
the beer has been in the bottle more than a couple weeks already.  If not,
there are still a good amount of yeast floating.  Next time you bottle, use
a bucket.  This lets you siphon a tablespoon or two of the yeast sediment
into the bucket which then puts a very small but potent quantity of yeast
into each bottle.  This will assure good carbonation.  If your beers aren't
carbonated in a couple more weeks, you can get some CO2 cartridges and empty
two litre soda bottles.  I don't know how exactly, but you can carbonate
your flat beer with the right device attached to a 2 litre.  This way you
could have a couple at a time and just keep the rest in the bottle till you
want them.  In the meantime, bottle your next batch, you deserve it!
Parker Dutro,
Portland Oregon



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:48:16 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: guidelines

Spenser wrote:
"Gee, I took my mutt to the dog show, and they told me it wasn't a good
poodle.  But I love my mutt, she's the most wonderful dog in the
world?  I looked at the rules, and my mutt doesn't fit into ANY of the
categories! Why can't dog shows lighten up and stop being so focussed on
conformity?  Why can't they be about how wonderful the dog is?"


but Spenser,

My dog's a hophound, I think we ought to set up a category for that. Besides,
he's a trained Guide dog.

Mark Tumarkin




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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:29:03 -0700
From: Len Safhay <cloozoe at optonline.net>
Subject: Hefeweizen Yeast

<Mike Wescott wrote:
On another note, I'm curious about the hefe yeast
that other brewers are using.  For the last 4 hefes I've done, i've used
the
white labs yeast(WLP300). >

Mike, for my inaugural effort I used yeast I had cultured up from a
slant I innoculated from the dregs of a bottle of Schneider's. Aroma was
good in starter and at end of primary. And thanks for your response to
my prior questions.

Len Safhay





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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:52:20 EDT
From: Daveandbetta930 at cs.com
Subject: cooling option on conical

Mark Lane writes:
> I purchased the 7.1 gal fermentor with external cooling option.

Was this cutom made for you? Their catalog states that only the internal 
cooling option is available on the 7.1 gal. They describe plastic parts that 
sound hard to clean and might not hold up well. Does you wife have a sister?

Dave 
Balto.,MD


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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:12:44 -0400
From: "Dennis Waltman" <PDWALTMAN at sablaw.com>
Subject: Cleaning Stainless Steel

In our brewhouse (I brew with a partner) stainless
 steel is cleaned with lemon juice and salt and lots
 of elbow grease.  No cleaners especially are used
 on inside of the brew pots.  The lemon skin with
 remains of pulp makes a nice scrubbing tool.   Its
 definitely not the job for anyone with cuts on their hands.
 
Dennis Waltman





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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:30:43 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jim at jimala.com>
Subject: re:Fermentation Temperature Control

Another option:

http://brewery.jimala.com/fermcooler.html

Cheers, Jim
Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://brewery.jimala.com


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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:31:57 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RIMS Heater limitation

I test fired my RIMS heater that I added to my brewery the other night, and 
was rather dissapointed in the temp ramp capibility I achieved.

I'm using a 4500W 240VAC heating element on single phase 115vac (60hz)line 
for the heat source.

Actual measured voltage at the element terminals is 109VAC (the rest is lost 
in line loss, TRIAC drop, circuit breaker drop, etc.

I ran a 7.5 Gallon test run starting at 63F. In a half hour it was only up 
to 83F, which gives a temp rise of only 0.67F/min, or 0.37C/min.

I choose 7.5 gallons to simulate 20L water and 20# grain. The Specific heat 
of grain being much less than water.

It will take roughly 30 minutes to ramp 10C.

Is this going to be a fast enough ramp to do multi step mashes?

It looks like I will need to mash in at 50, and immediatly start the ramp to 
60. My hold time at 60 will be just about nill, and I will need to start 
ramping to 70, etc. For smaller batches there will be sufficient power to 
ramp and hold.

It appears to me that I'm going to be limited to around 20# of grain if I'm 
going to do multistep mashes.

Comments? Suggestions?

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian

"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer 
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von 
Bismarck





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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:37:32 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Adventures in Bottling

Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:04:14 Mark Anderson <MarkA at NHWA.ORG> 

>... The Primetabs were easy to handle and there was no foaming, as someone
>had warned me there would be, and they were quickly in solution.  My
>bottling time was nearly cut in half, and there was much less fussing
>around with sanitizers, etc.  It really is a great way to bottle.  The
>only real drawback is that after three weeks, there isn't a hint of
>carbonation.  Not a puff.

>The problem may be that I didn't allow headspace in the neck of the
>bottle.

Perhaps.  Others will better address this idea.  

>... Or perhaps it's the nature of Primetabs to take a while longer to
>ferment.

Nope.  It's just pressed corn sugar.  You may want to turn the bottles
over if you are concerned about stratification.  Yeast don't care where
the sugar is in the bottle.  You can't hide it in the bottle from the 
yeast.  

>...Bottled and stored at 65 degrees.  

65F is pretty cool.  Warm it up above 70F, say room temp or even
better, 75F.  Wait a full week and open one.  You should have some 
carbonation.  Open one per week to track the progress of the carbonation.

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:14:05 -0400
From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com>
Subject: Crystallization

"Abita's slight, bitter MOUTHFEEL insinuates itself intp a more encompassing 
malty character, providing good counterpoint to the emerging malty 
sweetness. The golden-amber BODY is slightly fruity at the swallow. Though 
relatively smooth overall, hints of sharpness and complxity are evident at 
the end. The friendly malt-hop presence is bid adieu with a slight, sugary 
sweetness on the final sip. An unpretentious red ale that's a comfortable 
companion."

After reading this, I can finally crystallize my complaint against Klein's 
drivel.

For the most part, I can relate to what the guy is trying to say, but only 
because I do (even if it's not apparent from my writings) read them with an 
open mind. Seek ye understanding first, and all that.

Anyway, my problem is that Klein seems to run willy-nilly down the road of 
his prose, casting terms about without any concern regarding how those terms 
are actually used, in current mainstream beer conversations, to describe the 
beer. For instance, not many would associate the term "mouthfeel" with 
bitterness or sweetness. Those are flavors. I have less difficulty with his 
wanton destruction of the meaning of the term "body" (to us, a class of 
"mouthfeel" descriptors - light, thin, rich, heavy, watery...) by using it 
to describe the physical touch-feel-see instantiation of the brew, but even 
this does not fit with our beer culture. It is this total disregard for the 
existing culture that I find so irksome.

Oh, then we have gems like "...laser-quick, fresh Concord grape aroma 
precedes a well-orchestrated mix of malt punctuated with sharp, quick jabs 
of hops." to blow any attempt to be reasonable about this guy away. This 
beer sounds like a bad karate film...




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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:34:07 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: AHA, competitions and other forums

Steve Alexander wrote:

> The phenomena of phils phonic phermentation phinishing phrobnicator

Carephul, Dan will be aphter you phor trademark inphringement.

Paul Gatza of the AHA wrote:

> If you are an American Homebrewers Association member, you 
> will be receiving the details of the AHA Membership Class 
> Restructuring in a letter coming shortly. The letter details 
> the price change in an individual AHA Membership to $38, the 
> addition of a new Family Membership option, the addition of a 
> joint AHA-Institute for Brewing Studies Membership and a 
> merging of the Canadian and International memberships into an 
> International Membership class.

After your impassioned plea for members, I was moved to head straight to
your online sign-up page at https://www.beertown.org/membership/joinaha1.htm

Could it be that you are eliminating the Canadian membership class simply
because of your inability to spell the word correctly? We find two
occurrences of the letter 'n' to be quite sufficient for our purposes.

In all seriousness, I can accept Canadian rates going up to better cover
your costs. However, it appears by combining the classes you are having
Canadian members subsidize the costs of international memberships. Unless I
hear back from you with a valid rationale for this, I shall be writing a
letter to CABA (our association), and posting in brewing forums (such as
this) encouraging all Canadians to discontinue their memberships in the AHA.
Hell hath no fury like a howling savage scorned.

Anyway, let's get back to my good-natured side with Spencer Thomas'
comments:
 
> [Stick tongue firmly in cheek]
> 
> Gee, I took my mutt to the dog show, and they told me it 
> wasn't a good poodle.  But I love my mutt, she's the most 
> wonderful dog in the world?  I looked at the rules, and my 
> mutt doesn't fit into ANY of the categories! Why can't dog 
> shows lighten up and stop being so focussed on conformity?  
> Why can't they be about how wonderful the dog is?
> 
> [Remove tongue from cheek]

Can we not all learn from the shining example set by the Miss Universe
pageant? There is no Best Hispanic or Best Oriental awards presented there.
Every year, the judges amaze me by being able to select the most beautiful,
talented and articulate woman from an incredible variety of ethnic origins
and backgrounds. I don't know how they do it, although I suspect it may have
something to do with tongues being stuck in cheeks, as well.

The original poster is right. All competitions should strive to be what the
Miss Universe pageant is: truly classless.

Finally, Rick Lassabe writes:

>    Oh, and Brian; thank you very much for your "public 
> service" you provided. I'm just glad you didn't let it slip 
> what the other forum was. Can you imagine how many of these 
> mean ole St. Pat bashers would have enjoyed the gratification 
> of bashing on another forum???

Indeed, there are already far too many bashers over in rec.crafts.brewi...

Oh, wait a minute. You clever lad, you almost got me to reveal it, didn't
you? Gotta get up pretty early to fool this worm (or something like that).

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing (yes, I'm actually going to be brewing as you read this) at
[314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:22:25 +0000
From: "Biffy The Brewer" <spargewater at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE:  Lynne/Business Bashing

Someone wrote:
"If  Lynne is only concerned that her opinion or expertise won't carry much 
merit because she is the owner of a home brew supply house, or that it may 
hurt her business,  why can't she just post under the name of Mark Twain  at  
hotmailusa.com ( or something like that). By posting under another name, she 
get her point across and no one has to know who she isor if she owns a 
business.

Of course if she did that, the "weasels" would criticize her for being 
"dishonest".  She can't win with the weasel-types.

Now I remember why I quit reading this thing for a couple of months.  
Between the negative-nellies who lambaste the vendors and the guys who want 
to make their own hop pellets, this forum is more annoying than listening to 
Bill Walton cover an NBA game.

Biff





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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:35:54 -0600
From: Paddock Wood Customer Service <experts at paddockwood.com>
Subject: Carafa & De-Husked Carafa

In Homebrew Digest #3918 (April 18, 2002)

Darrell (leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu) asks if 225gm / 0.5lb Carafa is too much
for Dark Lager.

We use just over 1lb Carafa Special III for a 12 gallon (46L) batch in our
Schwarzbier for an estimated 25 SRM.  1/2lb of Carafa II in 5 gallons is
about the same.

Did you use the de-husked versions? Carafa comes in 2 versions, "Carafa" and
"Carafa Special".  The Special is de-husked Carafa, which by reducing the
bitterness may lead you taste a little less roast, although all the roasty
flavors should still be there.

http://www.weyermann.de/chocolatemalt.html



cheers,

Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiis sugant."

Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK, Canada
experts at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:11:49 +0200
From: Arnaud VIEZ <arnaud at viez.net>
Subject: Lower the pH ?

First of all : thank you Tony, I am now a happy reader of both HBD and
UK-Homebrew!

My question to all happy homebrewers (one more time about water, this is
a rather delicate subject to me):
my tap water has a pH of about 8 (carbonates = 239 ppm). A lot of
carbonates is removed by boiling, and that makes a nice mash water, with
a pH of  6,8, and calcium added by the use of calcium chloride.

But I wonder about the best way to get a nice sparge water, too; I find
it difficult to lower the pH to the recommended value (5,2-5,5) only by
adding gypsum and calcium chloride, because I need to add a lot of them
to lower pH, and that results in a high rate of sulfate and chlorides.

So my question : is it valuable to lower the pH with acids (citric acid
or mixed acids from Brewferm), and could it have any adverse effect on
the finished product?

TIA, Arnaud.






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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:58:01 -0400
From: "Roy Strohl" <lstrohl at mwc.edu>
Subject: quick disconnects - source

Several homebrewers, most looking for quick disconnects, have noted the
apparent closure of Moving Brews. I managed to break one of the disconnects
that I had originally bought from Bill and went out on the Web to find
replacements.

I have recently purchased CPC HFC10635, 3/8" nominal flow, Polysulfone, 3/8"
NPT male straight and the counterpart CPC HFC22635, 3/8" nominal flow,
Polysulfone, 3/8" ID hose barbs from:

Flo-Products Co.,2305 Millpark Drive,Maryland Heights, MO,63043-3529

telephone is (314) 428-4000, ask for inside sales

www.flo-products.com

I dealt with a gentleman named Jim Bresnahan.






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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at retro.eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: Adventures in Bottleing

Mark writes: 
The only real drawback is that after three weeks, there isn't a hint of 
carbonation. ... The problem may be that I didn't allow headspace in the neck 
of the bottle. ... Or perhaps it's the nature of Primetabs to take a while 
longer to ferment. ... Bottled and stored at 65 degrees.

I haven't used a Philler or Primetabs, but my guess is you'll just need to be 
patient.
If you're waiting to bottle another batch, try altering one or more test 
bottles with a combination of increasing the temperature, a larger head space 
(pour out a couple inches), and more sugars. That should reveal your problem 
the fastest. Just be sure to keep an eye on it so it doesn't blow up from 
over-priming.


Rama Roberts
San Francisco bay area



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:49:07 -0400
From: kingkelly at juno.com
Subject: Beer Description

Now, this isn't Bob Klein, but what a description!  Sounds like one you
can't resist.

Michael Jackson writes about ANDERSON VALLEY HOP OTTIN IPA:

Full gold to bronze color with a dense head. Sexy, fresh-sweet aromas,
then
lemony notes. The first mouthful is spritzy; then it gets rough, with
almost
abrasive hop flavors. It seems to finish with a quick surge, but leaves
lemon-pith and grapefruit bitterness. American IPAs are ever more
dizzying in
their hoppy assertiveness. I love them, though they are a style apart.
The
British never sent anything quite like this to India, but the Hindus did
provide us with Kama Sutra.

Esther King
President
Star City Brewers Guild
The Roanoke Valley, VA


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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:25:38 -0500
From: "Ryan and Shelly" <furstenau at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: constant sparge flow rate

I just ran my all grain system for the second time and for the second time,
I was unable to maintain a constant sparge rate.  I have a modified keg for
the mash tun and 1/2" copper tubing draining the keg.  The tubing goes to a
ball valve with a 1/4" port and then back to 1/2" copper tubing and hooks up
to plastic tubing into the kettle.  The tubing goes all the way to the
bottom of the kettle.

Here is the problem.  I start at at good rate of about 1 pt./minute, but as
the level increases in the kettle, the sparge rate decreases.  I am
maintaining a constant liquid level in the mash tun of about 1" of water
above the grain bed.  Am I getting too much back pressure when the sparge
tube gets submerged in the kettle?  I have to keep opening up the ball valve
to maintain flow.  As soon as I pull the tube out of the wort, I get tons of
flow!

If the solution is to keep the tube out of the wort, how do I avoid hot side
areation?  Do I keep the tube pressed up against the side of the kettle?

Please help.  My 1st sparge took almost 90 minutes.  I would like to shoot
for 45 minutes.

Ryan, Omaha, NE, USA



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:31:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: alastair <alastair at odin.he.net>
Subject: HSA problem?

I've had to come to the conclusion that the 'oxygen' in my basement must
be somehow different from the typical brewing environment.  I always
considered HSA as the brewing equivalent of an urban legend and paid it
little attention.  However, increasingly there seems to be a movement
afoot that strongly suggests we should worry about this 'apparent'
problem.

I use a separate mash and lauter tun and happily slap my hot grain and
wort from one to the other.  I also collect my runnings in a separate
container and pour it from a good height into my kettle in what I now
call the 'salute to those who believe in HSA'.  So far I've not noticed
any oxidation problems by doing this, hmm, maybe I'm lucky and my local
oxygen is a kinder variety?  Once I got racking/bottling down to a fine
art, oxidation is of little concern, even with my brutal handling before
fermentation.  A stout I made well over six months ago just keeps
getting better.  After my usual slopping of hot mash between containers,
pouring of hot wort and all those melanoidins, it should be ruined by
now?  However, after a couple of ribbons over the last few months, it
came in third BOS at the last competition... I just don't get it.

I think someone should point out that if HSA is a real effect, it is so
subtle that no one need worry about it.  There are far more important
things to waste time and effort on!

Happy brewing,

Alastair 


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