HOMEBREW Digest #3939 Mon 13 May 2002

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  RE:oops- iodophor in beer ("Parker Dutro")
  RIMS temperature controller ("Lou King")
  Fix and Fix Analysis...(question re malt) (leavitdg)
  cooling and DMS ("Dr. Pivo")
  RE: Iodophor in Beer ("Steve Jones")
  SC Area HB Stores ("H. Dowda")
  Re: Beer Engines (Bill Wible)
  Competition, scoring, commercial beers (Althelion)
  Dark munich malt (LJ Vitt)
  FW: Cold break ("Mark A. Evans")
  Samuel Adams cap ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Kansas City Beer (Nathan Kanous)
  Siebel Week: lactobacilus (Jeff & Ellen)
  Siebel Week (craftbrewer)
  Seibel Week ("Betty and Mike Kilian")
  Siebel Week ("Brad Lifford")
  Siebel week-Bacteria Staining (Gary M Chumney)
  Further info on Stainless Hardware (Bob Sheck)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 22:56:00 -0700 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: RE:oops- iodophor in beer The beer will be fine. Please don't do anything as dramatic as to pour it out. Unless it's so grotesquely obvious that a batch has spoiled, it's always best to bottle or keg it and try it to see how it turns out. Iodophor is supposed to be a no-rinse sanitizer. 1 tablespoon to five gallons cold water for two to five minute contact time. Any longer and it's just, longer. I've used it since I started brewing, and just recently did I begin rinsing with preboiled water, but only because I don't have the means to hang it to air dry. Parker Dutro Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 03:55:41 -0400 From: "Lou King" <lking at pobox.com> Subject: RIMS temperature controller Has anyone used the 'Brewers Edge Controller II' (available for instance from Williams Brewing) for RIMS temperature control? http://www.williamsbrewing.com/AB1605000/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Product_ID= 183&CATID=12 Does anyone have an opinion on how well this would work? Any suggestions on how to place the temperature probe or type of heating element? Is 12 amps enough? Lou King Ijamsville, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 06:18:24 -0400 (EDT) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Fix and Fix Analysis...(question re malt) In re-reading Fix and Fix (Analysis of Brewing Techniques)...I find that I am confused by a differentiation that they make (p9) between "green malt" and "regular malt". In the section entitled "Roasted Malt", after describing the important flavor role that roasted malt plays in determining the final flavor of the beer,...and stating that the market is flooded with different trade names, they suggest a differentiation based upon "two ways in which they are produced". "Group 1" they call "green malt" ... calling it "germinated but not dried", while "Group 2" they call "regular malt" describing it as "germinated and dried" They then describe Maillard products, ...some of the chemical stuff from Fix's Principles..., then they state that "lightly roasted malts have a sweet toffee/ carmel taste" while "highly roasted malts have a burnt taste" In group 1 they include: US light (carapils), European light, Crystal (30-40L, and 70-80L), as well as dark crystal (100-160L) In group 2 they include: Amber, Chocolate, and Black malt. They point out the limited shelf life of roasted malt, 'particulary crystal and carmel malt'... OK here is the question: Why do they refer to Group 1 as "germinated but not dried"? and group 2 as "germinated and dried"? Do they not really mean [for group1] germinated and lightly kilned, and [for group 2] germinated and more heavily kilned? I mean both are dried, but at different temperatures, right? I really appreciate the work that George and Laurie have put into this and his other work/s,...but am confused over this point. ...Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:37:24 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: cooling and DMS Dave Burley asks: > So. Do we have any evidence that long slow cooling with the lid on ( e.g. in > a deep sink) causes the beer to have a higher DMS content or is this just a > mommily ( hi Jack) ? > I recall when Jack Schmiding first posted that he had begun cooling "au naturalle" with the lid on overnight with no difference whatsoever. As is my want, I thought this was worth testing. Particularly since my experience with Jack's previous postings were that they were emminently practically oriented, and he had a long previous history of brewing, that there could possibly be some basis to it. I had previously been under the impression that the first 30C were of importance, at least in terms of cold break, and perhaps in terms of flavour as a result (total N excess, or possibilities of what is known as "yeast bite"). As always, when I want to check these thing out, I did a "parallel brew" that is, took the exact same wort and took it down two separate paths. In this case it was quite simple. Half the wort was run through a counter flow cooler, and the other left in the kettle with the lid on over night. They were fermented side by side and "triangled" at maturity. In this case the difference was "significant", that is, there was enough tasters that could tell the difference between the two, that it shouldn't be considered "just chance". My personal impression (no degree of validity here!) is that there was no perceptible level of DMS resultant. The difference in fact was to me quite obvious. I am quite fond of late addition hops, and these resultant highly volatile products simply left the scene in the wort that stayed warm so long. In short, I had introduced a "confounder", confound it. In retrospect ( and should anybody else like to examine this in a somewhat rigid manner.... I've learned not to hold my breath waiting for someone to do other than write an opinionate about such matters), I would suggest that you use no late additions whatsoever, and then perhaps dry hop the two resultant cooled worts. Why is it we always think of these things too late? Sometimes my hindsight is just dandy......in fact I think I see a hind right now. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 07:51:00 -0400 From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net> Subject: RE: Iodophor in Beer Tom the Unabrewer asks if his 'friend' ruined his beer with iodophor. I think not. Here is an interesting article on just this thing: http://www.bayareamashers.org/iodophor.htm Steve Jones Johnson City, TN stjones1 at chartertn.net http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 05:55:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> Subject: SC Area HB Stores Liquid Hobby, formerly Bet-Mar, is in Columbia and is on-line at http://www.liquidhobby.com and has basic supplies ready for prompt shipment. In the Charlotte area is Homebrew Adventures. A full service shop with good delivery via UPS. http://www.homebrew.com Both shops are supporters of the Palmetto State Brewers Open (IV coming in October) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:23:19 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: Beer Engines I found a good website for a place in PA that deals with everything you need for real cask ale, firkins, beer engines and parts, they even have real english nonick pint glasses and pub table games: http://www.ukbrewing.com no affilliation, satisified customer, I bought from them once or twice. They have some of the coolest stuff I've seen, including real reconditioned clamp on beer engines from about $265. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 10:46:07 EDT From: Althelion at aol.com Subject: Competition, scoring, commercial beers I often wonder why there seems to be a veil of secrecy surrounding scoring in competitions. For instance, why are winning and placing scores never mentioned? I think it would provide a valuable context for all the brewers who entered by displaying how close they were from the top. I remember last year when I entered the Drunk Monk Challenge, they provided information regarding the range of scores, highest, lowest, total entries, etc. I found this information helpful because it gave me an idea about the level of competition that I was up against (top shelf quality!). As for commercial beers, here's an idea for Zymurgy, Brew Your Own, et al.: An article which, using BJCP standards, evaluates the top 20 - 50 commercial beers using the same scoring sheet format that are used in homebrew competitions. I personally, would really enjoy the various category comments on such beers as Busch, Michelob, and Bud. Al Pearlstein Commerce Township, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 08:07:10 -0700 (PDT) From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> Subject: Dark munich malt Both Steve Jones and Jeff Renner both tell of their successes using dark munich malt in munich dunkels. Where are you finding dark munich malt? Steve mentions North Country Malt -- How do I find them? I'm trying to remember to keep giving my name and location. Leo Vitt Rochester, MN ===== Leo Vitt Rochester MN Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:34:42 -0400 From: "Mark A. Evans" <markaevans at mindspring.com> Subject: FW: Cold break Peter and Bill wondered: >>Peter...Does A-B take steps to remove cold break after wort leaves the >>counterflow chiller and prior to pitching yeast? >Sorry, I don't know, though I suspect this is true. Maybe some of our >friends in St. Louis have some contacts and could find out. First of all - I'm no expert. I speak as an individual with an interest in home brewing not as a representative of AB. The answer: It's called a Cold Wort Settler. The Wort sits here for a little while and is then decanted to an Alpha (Primary) Fermentation Vessel. Some, but not all, of the cold break is removed. As you all know, there's yeast nutrients in the cold break. In Home brewing, those who use a counterflow chiller could do something similar if you want to fuss with an additional transfer. You could experiment by comparing your results when altering the amount of cold break transferred if all other things remain the same. ME Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:38:45 -0400 From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Samuel Adams cap I found a Samuel Adams bottle cap that has inside it the words, "International Award Winner, Rio De Janero GOLD 1998. Can anyone tell me if this was some type of contest run by the Boston Beer Company or some distributer? Boston Beer Company won't respond to my query. - -- Fred L. Johnson Apex, North Carolina USA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 15:45:33 -0700 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Kansas City Beer Howdy, I'm again heading for Kansas City this July. July 12 to 17th. Last time I was there I didn't dig up much by way of beer (too busy). This time I hope to spend more time. What's in the Kansas City area for beer? Lawrence Kansas? Warrensburg Missouri? TIA. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 17:34:02 -0400 From: Jeff & Ellen <JeffNGladish at ij.net> Subject: Siebel Week: lactobacilus I'm trying to perfect, or at least improve my technique for fermenting a Berlinner Weisse. In three attempts over the past three years, I've added the bacteria to warm wort a day or two before cooling and pitching the ale yeast, added the ale yeast a day or two before the bacteria, and added a mixed culture of yeast and lactobacillus at pitching time. I've talked to brewers who have intentionally soured the wort before boiling and then pitched ale yeast after cooling and to others who have soured the mash. My question is which is the most stable way to achieve a clean sourness in the shortest amount of fermenting time? Will the ale yeast be able to work in wort with a pH as low as it must be when it is as sour as I want? Am I doomed to wait months for a milky film to appear on my beer before it's done? What is the best way to build up a culture of lactobacillus delbruckii? Or is this step necessary? All three of my Berlinner Weisse beers have tasted very good and have done extremely well for me in competitions, but I'd really like to streamline the process. Thanks for your insight. Jeff Gladish, Tampa, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 08:50:31 +1000 From: craftbrewer <craftbrewer at telstra.com> Subject: Siebel Week G'Day All Well the question from a mad North Queenslander FERMENTATION NUTRIENTS I have been researching various yeast nutrient suppliments and its corresponding effect on fermentation over the years and there is no doubt that additional supplimentation of yeast nutrition results in improved fermentation performance in general. But there can be problems as well. The problems I have read and experienced first hand include the increased production of medium chained fatty acids, increased acetaldehyde, more esters and higher alcohols. Some of these will give as you are aware very negative flavour impacts on your beer. I myself have experienced a racid flavour from overdosing a wort with zinc. There are three broad ways most craftbrewers use to add yeast nutrients 1. Adding specific nutrient(s) - mainly zinc on a specific need basis 2. Adding yeast extract of some sort - say dried yeast in the boil 3. Adding pre-package yeast nutrients - N, P compounds at micronutrient While I can find plenty of evidence on the benefits of yeast nutrient addition, research on the negative impact on these additions, especially potential flavour inpacts, is very scare. What research I do find is at the "high to very high" end of nutrient addition, especially with the use of zinc. The evidence shows a linear relationship between say zinc addition and off flavour compounds. Basically the more you add, the more you get. But I cant find any research on if that linear relationship extends back to the micro - addition range. One possibility is there may well be an expoential curve at these ranges, where there is a threshold limit where the off flavour compounds start to go into the linear relationship. (similar to the growth curve of most organisms). I myself have been getting good results with the following levels of addition. 1. a packet of dried yeast per 18 litre batch in the boil 10 minutes from strike 2. 0.2 mg Zn /Litre at strike (in the form of dilutes Zn salts). I believe I am with these additions achieving optimum levels (as opposed to good levels)of all the nutrients necessary for good yeast performance. Nutrients like FANs, Amino acids, Vitamins and Micronutrients like Zn and Mn. Still I would like to know more about off flavour production, even at these relative low concentrations. The producer of Servomyces has produced there own data, but I would like more independant advice. I found servomyces works, and works well, but I have also found my own formular for yeast nutrient additions gives the same results. My Questions are 1. What is the latest research into yeast nutrition, especially Zinc 2. Has there been any research at these lower levels of additions 3. What is Siebels position on the addition of yeast nutrients 4. What would they recommend are good combinations and levels of nutrients that should be added to a "typical" wort. 5. Many claim yeast nutrients do not increase yeast numbers but only increase yeast performance. Yet I find unscientifically that they seem to increase my yeast mass. Which is true. 6. Finally what is the mechanism that makes this so effective. What critcal enzyme, or chemical reaction, or whatever, that is affected by these additions Shout Graham Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 12:01:22 -0500 From: "Betty and Mike Kilian" <bkilian1 at mindspring.com> Subject: Seibel Week I there a preferred method for introducing yeast into the cooled wort? Is it preferable to pitch the whole mass into the fermentor or introduce it slowly inline? If it is introduced inline, would the process work better closer or further downline from the fermentor? Thanks for this great opportunity! Mike Kilian Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 15:17:49 -0400 From: "Brad Lifford" <blifford at mail.timesnews.net> Subject: Siebel Week First, thanks for answering our questions. Here's mine: I'm planning a Bohemian Pils and am curious about the wisdom of racking off the trub into another vessel prior to yeast pitching, to achieve greater clarity. A friend of mine brews very good lagers with excellent clarity and, as far as I know, has never bothered with this extra step. But I've read more than one lager expert who suggests racking from the trub (Noonan is one, I think) into another primary. So: Should I bother? I know some of the trub I would rack from can aid fermentation, so if I do rack to a second primary what is the chance that fermenation will be hindered? Do the positives of racking from the trub before pitching outweight any potential negatives? Thanks, Brad Lifford Kingsport, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 20:17:11 -0400 From: Gary M Chumney <garychumney at juno.com> Subject: Siebel week-Bacteria Staining I have a bacteria staining kit with the following solutions: Carbol Fuschin Methylene Blue Crystal Violet-Ammonium Oxalate Crystal Violet Menthylene Blue with Alcohol Carbol Red I know that one of the Menthylene Blue is for determining yeast viability and which one I don't know yet. As far as the other stains are concerned which bacteria do they show in a test on a wort or beer? Thanks Gary Chumney Brewing in Knoxville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:44:42 -0400 From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net> Subject: Further info on Stainless Hardware Due to the unprecedented demand for info, I put up this web page that should answer a lot of questions about the stainless steel stuff I have found, and that I feel will be a benefit to the collective~ http://www.homestead.com/bsheck/files/brew_Hardware.htm Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC bsheck at skantech.net // [583.2,140.6] Apparent Rennerian Home Brewing since 1993 // bsheck at skantech.net // Return to table of contents
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