---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  electrical element cover ("the freeman's")
  RE: Dark Munich Malt ("Gregor Zellmann")
  still Re: was HSA ("Steve Alexander")
  cheap saucepan warning ("Phillipa")
  RE: Dark Munich Malt (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Re: Brewers Edge II / Elec Temp Ctrllr (Rick)
  My first ale - update ("Leppihalme, Miikkali")
  RE:  Introduction ("Leppihalme, Miikkali")
  Green Malt ("Dan Listermann")
  re: grain absorption rate (Paul Kensler)
  RE: Green malt question (Paul Shick)
  Question: 2 gallon batch in 5 gallon carboy? ("Ron L")
  Re: Kansas City Beer (Nathan Kanous) (Rob Dewhirst)
  Re: Dark munich malt (Jeff Renner)
  Origin of Common Expressions and Practices ("Larry Bristol")
  Electrical Sealant (mohrstrom)
  Siebel Week Question: Hop Isomerization Temperature "Floor" (mohrstrom)
  Kansas City Beer (Jebbly)
  RE:  Kansas City Beer (Charles.Burry)
  Russian Stout ("David Craft")
  Practical Thermo question (stencil)
  Siebel Week (Troy Hager)
  Re: Kansas City Beer (Dan Ryan)
  Classic American Pils (Randy Ricchi)
  CAP yeast (Randy Ricchi)
  MY INHERITANCE ("edm")


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Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 23:13:32 -0500
From: "the freeman's" <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: electrical element cover

http://brewrats.org/hwb/er/images/er03.jpg

Dan, this is a pic showing the cover for the elements on "the
perfesser".  This is a stainless section that folds down over the
electrical connections and keep prying paws and such away from the hot
stuff.  There is a piece of electrical paper with a sizable resistance
to passing electricity (something like 10,000 volt protection) that also
covers the connections as well.  The whole thing can be removed by
taking out 2 screws.

Hope this helps.

Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
K P Brewery - home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 11:26:48 +0200
From: "Gregor Zellmann" <gregor at blinx.de>
Subject: RE: Dark Munich Malt

Leo Vitt askes about Dark Munich Malt:

> Both Steve Jones and Jeff Renner both tell of their successes
> using dark munich malt in munich dunkels.
>
> Where are you finding dark munich malt?
> Steve mentions North Country Malt -- How do I find them?

Leo,

living in Germany, I don't know about North County Malting, but I know that
Weyermann Malting has wonderful dark Munich malt. AFAIK, there are some
retailers of Weyermann malts in the USA. Check them out!

cheers

Gregor Zellmann
Berlin, Germany




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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 06:41:23 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: still Re: was HSA

Larry Bristol writes ...

> >> Second, when one of the many people tells you that their beer does not
> >> show signs of oxidation <...snip...>
> >In matters of fact the opinion polls of "many people" don't count at all
>
> I most certainly agree!  But as I explained above, I do not think that
> matters of taste are matters of fact.

Oxidation ("signs of oxidation") isn't a matter of taste.  It is at least
theoretically a measurable objective quantity and there are many different
proxies used to measure oxidation - ITT and ORP measures are commonly used
for acidic foods like beer and are available at brewing labs like Seibels.
An ORP meter (btw I have used ORP for evaluating aging in my HB)  will beat
uninformed opinions every time.     You can't separately taste
"oxidation" - tho' many of it's results can certainly be tasted.

I refuse to applaud when someone  says "my beer has no
oxidation" based solely on flavor.  These same people usually do not
understand the wide range of oxidation flavor consequences possible and have
no unoxidized sample for comparison.  They are making claims of a factual
basis while in a state of nearly perfect ignorance.

>My comment was not to imply that
> someone might have found the magic bullet to avoid all oxidation, but
> rather that due to the multitude of uncontrolled variables in
> homebrewing, signs of oxidation will exist at vastly different levels,
[...]

I don't think so.  The handful of studies show that all small batch brews
are quite oxidized.   Whether your HB collects 50ppm of O2 or 200pm of O2 on
the hot side - you still have huge potential for flavor damage.   More might
be worse, but now we're quibbling about the difference between lots of
oxidiation vs lots & lots of oxidation.

> >Accelerated aging, ...
>
> Steve, I know that this is a technique used for test purposes.  But
> every time I have seen a side-by-side data comparing accelerated aging
> versus natural aging, such as in the reference we have been discussing
> so much of late, there are marked differences between them.  It really
> makes me question its validity, but I suppose that is beside the point.

In a sealed bottle of beer the glass bottle and cap liner are non-reactive
and the beer contents and head-space gasses are a closed system which is yet
undergoing many active chemical reactions.   Collectively these changes are
known as aging or staling.   Accelerated aging involves boosting the storage
temperature so that these chemical processes will proceed at an accelerated
rate.  There are no reactions occuring in accelerated aging that are not
also occurring during conventional cool storage.   Some reactions will be
accelerated more than others, so the effect is certainly not precisely like
conventional aging, but still this sort of aging does increase the amounts
of staling flavor products quite quickly and it allows you to see what some
of the eventual flaws in your beer would be if you allowed the time for them
to develop slowly at cool temps.    It also gives the huge advantage of
comparing the cool stored young beer with it's heat-aged cohort
side-by-side.

> My point is that I do not make my beer for test purposes, so I am not
> willing to subject it to such a technique.

Fine - then continue to live in ignorance about how beer ages for the petty
cost of a few bottles and an hour of your time.   If you think you can
compare the precise flavor of your HB at 4 vs 12 weeks of age and remember
the taste well enough a few months later  to pick out the subtle shifts in
flavor you're fooling yourself.  If your unwilling to expend this tiny
effort towards understanding favor shifts then you really have no honest
interest in the subject.

> You know what the bottom line is, Steve?  In many ways, we have been
> saying the same thing.  Of course, they are said from a different
> perspective and with different words.

Really ?   Maybe you need to re-read the posts but we're pretty far apart
here.  You've read one article on a not-so representative oxidation product
and refuse to try even the simplest of tests and now you're telling us that
oxidation is subjective and that we should listen to the opinions of folks
who cannot reasonably know what they are talking about and  .....  We are
not saying the same thing.

The most telling difference between our positions is summed up in your own
words, "I do not make my beer for test purposes [...]".    All of my beers
are experimental - or so my friends joke.  If you are trying different
things and thinking about the results you ARE making test beers and that is
certainly the only way to learn to make better beers.  I can't imagine that
HBers do anything else once they are past the recipe stage.  As simple as HB
seems on the surface, the underlying complexity is just stunning and a crack
over the noggin to anyone with a whit of curiousity.  How can any
kid-at-heart keep from exploring all the control variables - especially
since the process is so forgiving of errors and the results so drinkable ?

 -S





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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:46:31 +1000
From: "Phillipa" <backcrk at tpg.com.au>
Subject: cheap saucepan warning

Greetings,

Last week, while carrying my saucepan full of boiling water, one of the
handles broke off. Fortunately, it broke just as I was putting the saucepan
down, otherwise, I would be typing this email from a hospital bed suffering
from burns.

It was a "Todays Kitchen" stainless steel 19 litre pot with a glass lid from
Big W (a large chain of budget department stores), bought about 2 years ago
to do partial mashing in and then used to heat my sparge water. Has a 10
year guarantee, I still have the reciept so it is going back for a refund.

The handle is spot welded onto the body with four spot welds. The steel is
quite thin.  After welding, the inside is reamed out to polish it and
improve the appearance which further decreases the metal thickness.

If you have a cheap saucepan, you may like to fill it with cold water and do
some tests of your own to satisfy yourself as to its structural soundness.
Look for deformation of the handles and body where they are attached.

Cheers
Phillipa




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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 07:56:30 -0400
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Dark Munich Malt

Leo,

North Country malt (www.northcountrymalt.com) is in upstate New York . They
are an importer/wholesaler, but will sell to homebrewers who are not within
a hundred miles of one of their retail customers. They only sell full bags.

Our esteemed HBD sponsor for this year, Northern Brewer
(www.northernbrewer.com), carries Durst Dark Munich malt, as does Grape and
Granary (www.grapeandgranary.com). NAYYJASC

Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian
http://hbd.org/franklin




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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 05:18:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Brewers Edge II / Elec Temp Ctrllr

Lou,

Before you splurge on a Brewers Edge II, check out 
Johnstone Supply http://www.johnstonesupply.com . 
They seem to be all over the US.  They sell the Ranco
controller for much less (I think I paid $47).  Just
walked in and they had it on the shelf.  It's Ranco
#ETC111000 and Johnstone Part #L38-382.  

The key is knowing a little bit about wiring.  You'll
need to get some parts (I connected a switch box to
the bottom via conduit connecter and wired a single
outlet. You'll also need to wire a power cord (use min
#10ga). I used a 3 wire appliance extension cord and
cut off one end and wired it in.) I think my total
cost was $60 and about 1 hours work.  Email me if you
want more information

Rick Seibt
Mentor, OH



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:18:02 +0300
From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme at quartal.com>
Subject: My first ale - update


Hello! I'm in the middle of brewing my very first ale. I use Muntons
Old Conkerwood Black Ale beer kit. On one hand the instructions on
the kit said I shouldn't boil it. On another hand the instructions
on many kits are crap. Anyway, I didn't boil it, right or wrong.

Because I wanted to add more hops, I boiled 100 grams (3.5 oz) of
Cascade pellets in water for 15 minutes, cooled it and added that
to the wort. I used Muntons ale yeast (6 gr or 0.21 oz) that came
along with the kit. I've been warned against using yeast that comes
with the kit, but I figured that I'd use it anyway because this is
a good quality kit and John Palmer's "How to Brew" lists Muntons
yeasts amongst the good ones.

After pitching the yeast and closing the fermenting bucket, the
airlock didn't start bubbling even after two days. I put my ear
against the lid of the bucket and listened: there was a little
sizzling activity but I couldn't say for sure. I felt reluctant
to open the lid and have a look because I was afraid to contaminate
the wort, but I opened it anyway. I couldn't see if there was
foam or other signs of fermentation because the surface of the
wort was covered with the hops floating. I did not touch the wort
with anything. Then I noticed the lid had a little crack on the
side. It must be leaking a bit. I HOPE it's just the lid leaking.
At least I can say for sure that the yeast was alive when I
pitched it (I had rehydrated and proofed it) and I was very
careful that the wort wasn't too hot (22-24 Celsius). I also
took good care of sanitation.

I'm still not sure whether the fermentation is going on as it
should. I have already incubated new liquid yeast (Wyeast London
Ale) in case I have to pitch new yeast, but I'm really not sure
if that's necessary.

How long does the wort keep if the fermentation has not begun
already after three days? Has it gone bad already? Impossible
questions, of course, to answer for sure. So many factors. But
any ideas are welcome.

I think I'll open the lid once more tonight and peek under the
covering hops (with a sanitized spoon).

Are there other things I've done improperly? Like concocting
the hops in water and adding the concoction AND the hops to
the wort?


Miikkali / Lohja, Finland
leppihalme at quartal.com


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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:27:48 +0300
From: "Leppihalme, Miikkali" <leppihalme at quartal.com>
Subject: RE:  Introduction

Brian Lundeen muses on my appearance:
> Miikkali (Can we call you Mike?) Leppihalme writes

Yes, unless there's a bunch of other Mikes already on
the digest, in which case there will be unnecessary
mix-ups. If you want to put it short, Mii is fine.

> Welcome, but if you're going to stick around, you'll
> have to downgrade your writing skills. You are making
> the rest of us whose first and only language is English
> look very bad. ;-)

Take it as a challenge. If I'm going to _sticke_ around,
that's possible only twice a year and only in Duesseldorf,
Germany. (The first one who gets the pun wins ten points.)

Bill Dubas amazes me with his skills in Finnish:
> Huomenta Miikkali!
>
> Welcome to the HBD!

Good morning, Bill! Well, it's afternoon already in here.
And thanks for the welcome.

> I've never been to Lohja, but I understand that it
> is rather close to Helsinki.

Yes, I go to work in Helsinki every day. It's just one
hour's drive away. To take this back towards the digest's
topic, brewing, Lohja is famous for its apple growers
and in this area we have two farms that make apple wine
and cider.

> My employer (Nokia) requires me to travel to Oulu 
> and Raahe occasionally, so I sometimes get a stop-over
> at the Helsinki airport.

If you have time to visit Helsinki on your travels, call
me and we'll go to a pub and grab a pint or two. My number
is +358-40-7037324.

> The first style that I tried to brew was sahti. Wow! 
> This is an interesting and unique style.

Yes. It's very rare in Finland too but it's gained some
popularity during the last few years when it's been easier
for small breweries to get licenses for commercial brewing.

> the shelf-life of this beer was rather short and the 
> flavors changed dramatically in a very short time.

As far as I know, short shelf-life is always the case
with the traditional Finnish sahti. You can find lots
of sahti related information here:
http://www.posbeer.org/oppaat/sahti/

> Lohja is rather close to the sahti district in
> Finland, so I imagine that you have plenty of
> opportunity to enjoy this style.

Nope. You can find sahti in very very few pubs and you
can't find it in grocery stores at all. Besides, Lohja
is not that near to the sahti district. It'd take about
four hours for me to drive to the nearest sahti brewery.
(And I wouldn't be able to drive back the same day.)

> The other style that I tried to brew was "kotikalja",
> which I understand translates to simply "home-brewed beer".

"koti" = home
"kalja" = a folksy word for beer

"Kotikalja" is not really a beer in my opinion. It's pretty
much what you say here:

> This style seems to be a low-gravity, low-alcohol 
> drink that can prepared within a few hours to be
> served at dinner.

The alcohol content in "kotikalja" is so low that even
small children can drink it. The fermentation is done
just for carbonation (which makes the brew more refreshing).

> My friend told me that he and his friends used
> to brew this type of beer when they were teenagers, 
> but they would add more sugar.

Yeah, and some use potatos or whatever there is available
that is both dirty cheap and fermentable. This kind of
drink is made only in the purpose of getting drunk, it
usually tastes _horrible_ and gives a hell of a hangover.
The point is most alcohol for least amount of money. It's
called "kilju".

> I'm starting to work on a new project that may require
> me to travel to Duesseldorf, so perhaps I'll get a chance
> to sample Zum Uerige also.

Wow, do that, and don't miss Frankenheimer's or Schumacher's brewpubs either!

> I hope that you enjoy the HBD and are able to
> extract useful information from all of the
> holynpolya.  ;-)

I'm still wondering if half of what I wrote here myself is holynpolya. ;>

Miikkali / Lohja, Finland


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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:03:26 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Green Malt

>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 06:18:24 -0400 (EDT)
>From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
>Subject: Fix and Fix Analysis...(question re malt)

>In re-reading Fix and Fix (Analysis of Brewing Techniques)...I find
>that I am confused by a differentiation that they make (p9) between
>"green malt" and "regular malt".

Green malt is malt that has been germinated and is still moist.  All malt is
"green" at some point.  If the green malt is slowly and carefully dried, it
becomes pale malt with intact enzymes.  This malt can be further roasted
into black, chocolate, etc., malts, but the roasting destroys he enzymes.

If the green malt is "stewed" in its own moisture at saccharfication
temperatures, the enzymes in the malt will convert the starches in the malt
to sugars inside the hulls of the grain.  This is crystal malt and it has no
active enzymes to speak of.

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com






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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 07:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Kensler <paul_kensler at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: grain absorption rate

Andrew,
I use ProMash also, and have done just fine using
their suggested rate of 0.12.  However, I have also
tweaked my water usage (in the "water needed" screen)
to reflect the amount of liquor and sweet wort that I
lose in the process...

I assume 1 gallon loss in the mash tun because when I
drain it completely the grain bed loses its filtering
ability and I get lots of debris and flour coming
through into the kettle; if I stop sparging with a
gallon left in the tun, the runoff stays clear.

I assume another half gallon loss in my boil kettle
between the actual amount of wort that I can't drain
out and the amount of wort that is trapped in the
whole hops and trub.

With those two losses figured in, plus the evaporation
rate, I just about always hit my volumes right on
target - the biggest variable seems to be the
evaporation rate depending on how humid it is, how
windy it is, and how much I leave the kettle lid
cracked.


Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:40:53 -0500
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: RE: Green malt question


Hi all,

	Darrell Levitt asks several questions about malting and
kilning, particularly about "green malt" (germinated but not
dried) vs. "regular malt" (germinated and dried.)  

	Darrell, a great answer to your question can be found
in Al Korzonas' article on Munich malt, found in the Brewery
Library section.  Here's a short summary of that, and other
sources, in an outline form, that I put together for a BJCP
study group last fall:


Overview of malting process:
	
Start with raw barley, after an appropriate dormancy period.
Step 1: Steeping in 50-55F water, with aeration, until germination.
The resulting acrospire length is an indicator of the degree of 
modification, telling you how far along you are in breaking up 
the starch matrix.
		
Step 2 (and 3, in some cases): Kilning.  There are three important
factors here: time, temperature, and ventilation
	
Pale malts: Drying phase:  for pale malts, low temp (40-45C) and very
high 
	ventilation until ~10% moisture content, then raise temp for 
	"curing phase." (If raise temp at high moisture, you'll kill 
	the enzymes.)  Curing phase for pale malts:  80-95C for 5 hrs. 
	(Because of the low temperatures/low moisture, pale malts 
	retain full diastatic power.)
	
Munich, etc.: Drying phase:  for high-kilned malts (Vienna, Munich,
Aromatic), 
	higher temp (50C) but LOWER ventilation until ~20% moisture content 
	(about twice as long as pale.)  Then curing phase:  Vienna ~90C,
	Munich ~105C, Aromatic 115C.  (Because of the higher temperatures
	and higher moisture, these retain ome diastatic power, but less 
	than pale/pils.)

Crystal malt:  no real drying phase -- raise to 60-70C while "green
malt," 		plus added water, until conversion, then vent and kiln 1-2hrs, 
	~150C, depending on color (degrees L) desired. (No diastatic power, 
	since raised temperature while very wet, denaturing all enzymes.)

Biscuit/Victory/chocolate/black patent: dry as usual (often start with
	pils/pale ale malt.) Then roasting barrel (rotating drum, heated 
	from below) until desired color. (No diastatic power.)

Summary: Pale ale/pale/pils:  dry to ~10% at low temps, cure at ~80-90C
until
desired color.	Crystal: no drying, heat wet to 60-70C to convert,
cure/dry 
to desired color.  Munich/Vienna: dry at low ventilation to ~20%, then
cure 
at 90-115C to desired color.  Biscuit/Victory/chocolate/black patent:
dry as
usual (often start w/ pils/pale ale malt) then roasting barrel (rotating 
drum, heated from below) until desired color.

	I hope this helps, Darrell.  Again, a more complete answer can be
found between Al K's article and Noonan's Brewing Lager Beer, among
other
places.

			Paul Shick,
			Cleveland Hts, OH.
			
(I was near (0,0) Rennerian during parts of MCAB4, but now I'm about
200 miles from the center of the brewing universe.)

P.S.  Jeff, I finally have a CAP with almost as much corn character
as the one you brought to MCAB, but the darn thing refuses to clear!
It's tough drinking/smelling with my eyes closed!


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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:47:08 -0400
From: "Ron L" <j4ckstr4w at hotmail.com>
Subject: Question: 2 gallon batch in 5 gallon carboy?

Is there any harm in making a smaller batch in a larger carboy?  I want to 
try some new things but don't want to be stuck with 5 gallons of mistake.  
Any ideas would be appreciated.



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:11:10 -0500
From: Rob Dewhirst <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Re: Kansas City Beer (Nathan Kanous)


>
>Howdy,
>I'm again heading for Kansas City this July.  July 12 to 17th.  Last time I
>was there I didn't dig up much by way of beer (too busy).  This time I hope
>to spend more time.   What's in the Kansas City area for beer?  Lawrence
>Kansas?  Warrensburg Missouri?  TIA.
>nathan in madison, wi

This must be the time of year to go to KC?  Conventions?

This question was recently asked on rec.crafts.brewing.  Here's a summary.

Kansas City is a big place, so some of these things may be out of the way.

If you are venturing to lawrence, the first stop should be the Free State 
Brewing Co.  <http://www.freestatebrewing.com>.  If you go on the 15th, two 
of their beers are $1.25.  The best deal in the midwest, afaik.  Half the 
local brewclub is usually there as well.  Look us up.

Homebrew
- ---------
KC Biermiesters <http://www.kcbiermeisters.org>
Homebrew Pro Shoppe <http://www.brewcat.com>
Bacchus and Barleycorn <http://www.bacchus-barleycorn.com>
Lawrence Brewers Guild <http://www.sunflower.com/~homebrew/>

Brewpubs & Bars
- --------
Free State Brewing Co. <http://www.freestatebrewing.com>
High Noon Saloon, Leavenworth <http://thehighnoon.com> (ask if head brewer 
Ed is in. Loves to talk brewing).
75th Street Brewery <http://75thstreet.com/>
Power Plant Brewery <http://www.powerplantbrews.com>
Haufbrau house at the Ameristar Casino
McCoys, Westport (?)
River Market Brewery <http://www.rivermarketbrews.com/>
Mill Creek Brewery <http://www.evenhouse.com/millcreek/>
Barley's Brewhaus (bar, not BOP)

Breweries
- ---------
Boulevard Brewery <http://www.blvdbeer.com>
Pony Express Brewery <http://www.ponyex.com/> tours saturdays.


Recommendations
- ---------------
Free State, High Noon, Bacchus, Pro Shoppe, 75th Street, Pony, Boulevard.



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 11:15:49 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dark munich malt

Leo Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> writes from Rochester, MN

>Both Steve Jones and Jeff Renner both tell of their successes
>using dark munich malt in munich dunkels.
>
>Where are you finding dark munich malt?

GW Kent http://www.gwkent.com/ here in Ann Arbor imports Durst malt, 
which includes 20 and 40 EBC Munich (EBC~= 2L).  Your retailer can 
order from them, or you could contact them to find a retailer near 
you.

>Steve mentions North Country Malt -- How do I find them?

http://northcountrymalt.com/.  Nice people to deal with.  I 
originally dealt with them when I needed malted oats.  They import 
Thomas Fawcett & Sons malt from UK, who are the omnly maltsters of 
oats I am aware of.

>I'm trying to remember to keep giving my name and location.

Good man!

Jeff
- -- 
***Please note my new address***

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 11:22:44 -0500
From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com>
Subject: Origin of Common Expressions and Practices

I have always had a fascination with the origins of certain common
expressions and practices.  Here are a few of the more widely known
ones, having to do with beer, drinking, or some such.  I would love to
hear any others you know!


Mind your P's and Q's
     In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts.  When a
customer got unruly, the bartender would yell at them that if they did
not settle down, he would no longer serve them.  They would be forced
to mind their own pints and quarts.

Wet your whistle
     It was common for a whistle to be baked into the ceramic beer mugs
used in an English pub, so that the customers could whistle when they
needed a refill.

The whole nine yards
     The ammo belts for the .50 caliber machine guns in WWII fighters
in the Pacific theatre were 27 feet long.  When a pilot emptied his
guns at a target, he described it [while drinking with his buddies back
at the base] as giving "the whole nine yards".

Free sheets to the wind
     Actually, a sailing term.  There is nothing quite as useless (or
dangerous for that matter) as a sail that has not been tied down, and
is free to flap in the breeze.  Applies equally well to someone in a
drunken state [like Texas!].  "Three [sic] sheets to the wind" is an
often used (meaningless?) variation.

Honeymoon
     It was an accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that for a
month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his son-in-law
with all the mead he could drink.  Because their calendar was lunar
based, this period was called the "honey moon". 

Holding a Wake
     Lead cups were used to drink ale (or whiskey). The combination
would sometimes knock the drinker out for a couple of days.  Someone
walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for
burial.  But first, they were laid out on the kitchen table for a
couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink and
wait and see if they would wake up.


Larry Bristol
Bellville, TX   AR=[1093.6,223.2]
http://www.doubleluck.com




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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:55:51 -0400
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: Electrical Sealant

Dan gets nervous around his hot water element connection:

>>>
I am using a pair of these for a kettle and am
not satisfied with my enclosure method ( wrap
with electrical tape).  Any suggestions?
<<<

Check out your auto parts store for a little blue spray can (made by
Permatex?) of electrical connection sealant.  I've used it to seal the
magneto coils when restoring antique outboards.  I can't vouch for the
dielectric strength, but it forms a nice waterproof coat.  You may want to
add some mechanical protection to prevent damage that might (inadvertently)
expose the hot wires.

Mark in Kalamazoo








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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:05:32 -0400
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: Siebel Week Question: Hop Isomerization Temperature "Floor"

In quest of a definitive answer to this question ...

Hop utilization (bitterness) in recipe formulation is dependent on the time
the hops are in the boil.  The question is: when (at what
temperature/condition) does utilization or isomerization cease?  This has
ramification for the type of chiller used (immersion v. counterflow) where
the greater portion of the wort may be held at 200+degF for some time while
chilling.

is there a suitable method to account for the additional bitterness (if
any).


Thanks to the Siebel Staff (I'll get to meet you all when I win the
scholarship - no need for the rest of you to enter ...)

Mark in Kalamazoo




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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 15:11:45 -0400
From: Jebbly at aol.com
Subject: Kansas City Beer

Nathan Kanous asked about beer in the KC area...

There are a few breweries in the KC area.  Of note I found
that the 76th Street Brewery was the best of them.  Aside
from the standard selection they served some seasonal beers;
not a bad menu either.

If you are feeling adventurous head north to Weston, MO which
is about fifteen minutes north of KC (depending on where 
you're at.)  There's a fun place there called O'Mally's Pub 
which has a unique brewery history.  No microbrew, but it has
a great atmosphere and live Irish music.  Well worth the trip.

Hope this helps.

DCG


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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:10:41 -0500
From: Charles.Burry at ercgroup.com
Subject: RE:  Kansas City Beer

Allow me to speak up for my hometown and my hometown beer.  We have a
wonderful regional craft brewery here by the name of Boulevard Brewing.
They have a Pale Ale, Unfiltered Wheat, Porter and Dry Stout available year
round.  Be warned, the Dry Stout is only available on tap and can be a
little tricky to find.  During July you should also be able to find their
Zon (pronounced Zone) summer seasonal which is a Belgium Wit style wheat.
Their beer is available just about everywhere.  Even in our upscale shopping
area, "The Country Club Plaza", you will find more Boulevard than A-B
products on tap.  Stop by the brewery at 2601 Southwest Blvd on Saturday for
a tour at either 1 or 3 pm.  (You might just find me leading the 1 o'clock
tour.)   Pony Express Brewing also produces some fine products over on the
Kansas side of the state line. 

In addition, several good brewpubs are also still in business, 75th Street,
McCoy's, Mill Creek, River Market come to mind.  Free State Brewing in
Lawrence, KS is still one of my absolute favorite places to get a pint.  My
personal favorite watering hole is Charlie Hooper's at 63rd and Main just
south of the above mentioned Plaza, 70+ bottles and 25+ drafts including the
likes of Franziskaner and Bellhaven.  Wednesday night is Import Night where
all but the most expensive beers, i.e. Chimay, are only $2 or $3 a bottle.
Or try Buzzard Beach in Westport for a bottle of Schneider Weisse or a Sam
Smith or a draft of PBR - PBR is only $.75 during Happy Hour!  Feel free to
contact me directly if you want any directions or more suggestions.

Charlie Burry

 


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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:12:27 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Russian Stout

Greetings,

I am formulating a Russian Imperial Stout out of some Dark DME.  I have
found numerous recipes that call for light DME, about 9 lbs for 5 gallons
along with various dark grains.

  I would like to substitute 6 lbs of Dark DME for the same amount of light
DME, cut the roasted, patent, and chocolate in half.

How does this sound, 6 lbs dark, 3 lbs light, 1 cup chocolate, patent, and
roasted barleys. One pound dark crystal and .5 pound of Victory.  We'll
finish it off with about 65 IBU's.

I can forward Promash if anyone wants to look at it.  I have this Dark DME
and this looks like the best way to get rid of it..........

Any help is appreciated.  I posted this a few weeks ago and got no
response.  It must not have had anything to do with HSA! That was a joke!

Regards,

David Craft
Greensboro, NC

PS- what exactly is Dark DME, how is it darkened? Is it a percentage of
Black Patent or something like that added?

David B. Craft
Greensboro







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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:53:55 -0400
From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net>
Subject: Practical Thermo question

I want to cool a kegful of beer from its currrent 50F to its ultimate
lagering temp of 35+/-2F.  I want to do it slowly, like, one degree a
day.  I can 'soak' it naked in the cold locker for a few hours and
then return it to the warmer locker in an insulating sleeve.  I don't
(yet) have any convenient way of monitoring temps at the core of the
keg.  Does anyone have any experience with this procedure using either
kegs or carboys, or know the appropriate heat transfer coefficients,
so I can set up a schedule, blind, with at least some chance of
getting it to sawtooth down gracefully?


gds, stencil


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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:25:48 -0700
From: Troy Hager <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Siebel Week

Thanks to Rob for this great opportunity!

Another question about oxidation (CSA): I have a CCF and usually draw trub
and yeast off the bottom at different periods during fermentation. When I do
this, I remove the airlock and replace it with a trap of sterile cotton.
Because it is a sealed container when I draw liquid out the bottom I suck
air in from the top. In the primary phase of fermentation this is of no
concern because 1) there is a thick protective head of foam on the surface,
and 2) any air sucked into the headspace will be pushed out by CO2 blowoff.
But if yeast is harvested when the primary is finished, the air that enters
will undoubtedly react to a certain extent with the surface of the beer. On
the homebrew level with a relative large surface area to volume ratio in the
fermenter is this a concern? 

I know time and temp. are probably major factors here so let's take a
situation: Lager primary of 10 days at 50F. On day 12 draw off yeast while
dropping the temp. 2F/day to 32F. Lagering at 32F for 15 days in the
fermenter before racking to a purged keg. We are talking about 15-18 days at
low temps with quite a bit of oxygen (air) in the headspace.

This would also apply to those who rack to a secondary carboy after the
primary is over.

I know that we all go to great lengths to keep air out of the headspace when
we bottle... what about in the fermenter after primary fermentation is
finished?


Many thanks.

Troy Hager
Hillsborough, CA 



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:32:29 -0500
From: Dan Ryan <kcmoryan at swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Kansas City Beer

If you've got time, take a tour of Pony Express and Boulevard.  If
you're more rushed than that, my ranking of the brew pubs would be 75th
Street, McCoy's, and then River Market.  Power Plant, north of the river
in Parkville, is good, too.  No need to travel outside of KC, though
Free State in Lawrence is great, too.  If you want a guide, let me know.



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:26:24 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <randyr at up.net>
Subject: Classic American Pils

How many of you have had a Heiniken out of the can? What does this have to 
do with homebrew, you ask? Read on.

Usually when you think of Heiniken you think of the green bottled version, 
and then you think, "skunked".  That's what I always thought, and stayed 
away from Heiney's like the plague. But the canned stuff is pretty 
decent.  No skunk factor. And you know, more than once while drinking it  I 
thought " I'll bet this is pretty much the way American Pils was back in 
the old days before the accountants and marketers started influencing the 
way beer was made.
The earliest recollection I have of drinking American beer (I am an 
American) was when I was about 12 years old (1969). I'd pester the old man 
for a beer with our spaghetti dinner at camp. I remember it having 
bitterness,along with some maltiness, and perhaps a bit of ester. 
Naturally, I wasn't thinking that when I was tasting it at 12 years of age. 
More likely I was thinking "my parents are watching me. I need to make sure 
I don't show any signs of a buzz or they'll take it away from me".  But 
when I think back now, with my knowledge of beer, that's what I think beers 
had back then, hop bitterness without much floral or spicy flavor or aroma, 
and a little bit of malt character (but not like a vienna or anything), and 
a certain "beery" ester.

And again tonight, when I was having a Heiney from the can, I thought, " If 
I could taste this right next to an American pils of the sixties, or 
earlier, I bet it would be right in the ballpark". Am I way off here? Jeff 
Renner? Jack Schmidling? Others? What do you say?



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:30:18 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <randyr at up.net>
Subject: CAP yeast

While I'm on the subject of CAP's, what's the consensus on the best yeast 
for a CAP? The Christian Schmidt strain seems logical, and I'm under the 
impression that Wyeast  2272 is    that strain. Any comments? Thanks.



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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 04:48:00 -0700
From: "edm" <edm32 at hkem.com>
Subject: MY INHERITANCE

Date:May 13,2002. 
Email:edm32 at hkem.com

Dear Sir, 

I am Mr.Eduado de Mello, one of the Principal 
Commanders of the Union for the Total Independence of 
Angola,UNITA.Well needless telling a very long story 
here for our story is indeed interwoven with the 
history of the world and the liberation struggle in 
the Southern African region of the African continent. 
The bubble burst just about some weeks ago today when my supreme 
commander, the late Dr.Jonas Savimbi was killed in an 
encounter with the government forces of the MPLA 
government of my country.The rest is now history but 
suffice it to say that I am tired of the unfortunate 
role of waging a war against my fatherland.I have 
therefore decided to pull out my troupes from the bush 
even if the other field commanders decide otherwise am 
therefore poised to effect a new beginning in my life 
and I have decided to make South Africa my new home at 
least for the interim period until I am sufficiently 
sure that I would be welcome home whole heartedly by 
the MPLA government in Luanda the capital of Angola. 
Needles to say I was the single most important 
commander who was very close to the late supreme 
commander; Dr.Jonas Savimbi.Indeed because I am a 
brother to one of his wives,he confided in me a great 
deal.The result of such trust is my reason for 
contacting you I was the commander whom he sent to 
deposit the sum of Thirty two million USD ($32million) 
with a security/finance company in South Africa.This 
was immediately after the events of September 11,2001 
in the United States of America.Indeed it had become 
increasingly difficult to move large volumes of money 
around the world particularly for a liberation 
movement like UNITA hence the recourse to keeping the 
money with the security company in South Africa. I 
have decided to inherit this money which was taken out 
and deposited with the said security/finance company 
as cash in Hundred dollar denominations.The money is 
kept in my signature and would have been used in the 
purchase of arms and ammunition for the purposes of 
continuing the civil war in Angola.The supreme 
commander is dead and as already stated I have decided 
to quite the whole thing and this is without regard to 
the fact that other commanders may wish to continue ! 
I want to cooperate with you in my decision to inherit 
the $32million.I am still in the bush here but I have 
been able to establish contact with the company in 
South Africa to the effect that I would soon come to 
take possession of the money that I kept with them. 
Note also that I deposited the money as a foreign 
national who is the head of a Mining company in Angola 
(Never as a commander of UNITA). If you are able to 
cooperate with me over this am willing to give you 20% 
of the $32million.Please come back to me through 
email:edm32 at hkem.com.The security/finance 
company is standing by to receive my instructions on 
this and I will link you up with them as soon as you 
are ready to take possession of the $32million. 
Finally you are to note that in you reply, you are to 
state your residential or company address and if 
possible send a copy of your international passport so 
as to assure me that my money is safe in your hands. 
Yours truly, 
Eduado de Mello 



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