---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  FWH in Partial Mash/Brewing Schools (Steve Tighe)
  Best priming for Yorkshire bitter ("B Morey")
  larger batches.. (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  Wow! ("James Sploonta")
  RE: Running out of Sugar Blues ("Rogers, Mike")
  Beer and Sweat 2002 ("Eric Tepe")
  Bjoern Thegeby and Larger Batch Sparge Water Requirements ("Dan Listermann")
  re:  length of sparge ("Chuck Dougherty")
  Re: Length of sparge? (Demonick)
  Re: What do you drink from? (Jeff Renner)
  beer pins and badges ("Dave Burley")
  Corny Threads Identified (mohrstrom)
  beercollections ("Dave Burley")
  Home RO water filter systems (Art Beall)
  Re: FWH - Needs Clarification (Jeff Renner)
  What do you drink from? ("Gary Smith")
  Recipe for Molsen Porter (djg)
  Re: FWH - Needs Clarification ("DRTEELE")
  Steve is the man! ("Robin Griller")
  RE:  MCAB ("Houseman, David L")
  bottles (ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies)
  RE: flavour extraction (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: SAB buys Miller Brewing (Rick)
  Basic questions from a newbie ("B Noll")
  Beer and America (Roy Roberts)
  Saccharification: 1 step or 2? ("Paul Stutzman")
  Cold Break Removal ("Sweeney, David")
  Widgets ("Joseph S. Gaglio")
  Call for NHC Judges and Stewards (blutick)
  Cheap but good pH meter? ("Gary Smith")


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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Tighe <steve_tighe at yahoo.com>
Subject: FWH in Partial Mash/Brewing Schools

Hello everybody,

A couple very different questions:

1. In following the recent First Wort Hopping thread,
I was wondering how well that would work in a partial
mash. The main reason I was questioning it was that it
seems that the sparge is a bit shorter with the lower
volume; will the hops be in the pre-boiled wort long
enough for it to work its magic?

Similarly, I've been considering adapting John
Palmer's no-sparge suggestions from the recent Brew
Your Own (if I can ever find the  at #^%# magazine again)
to my partial mash. Any reason FWH wouldn't work in
that method?

2. The other thing is, following another recent
thread, one day I may just decide to open up a brewpub
myself. Now, I'm nowhere near ready at this point. For
the moment, I'm not prepared to work that hard or give
up the steady paycheck.

I also know nowhere near enough about brewing to think
of doing it professionaly at this point (only been
doing it at home for a year plus). I've been thinking
that as prep to striking out on my own, I ought to do
it right, and get some actual training, then serve a
couple years as a working brewer in a successful
brewery, so I really understand the process from a
commercial viewpoint.

Anyhow, I'm here in Northern California, which affords
me two realistic options that I can see: UC Davis
Extension and the American Brewers' Guild. The ABG has
the distinct advantage of being internet based, so I
could stick with my job for most of the training, and
just focus full-time during the month's
apprenticeship. 

Davis, in contrast, is a full time in-person type
deal, but is at least reasonably local (Siebel in
Chicago just seems unrealistically far away when I
have two options within an hour of home). Do any of
y'all know  about the ABG and Davis programs? Would
the ABG provide a thorough enough education to a) get
a job in a good brewerey, and b) learn the
art/science/engineering enough to be sufficiently
skilled to make quality beer on a small commercial
scale? And what, exactly, would all the additional
time at Davis provide?

Thanks brewers,
Steve Tighe
Berkeley CA



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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:50:13 +1000
From: "B Morey" <bernardmorey at optushome.com.au>
Subject: Best priming for Yorkshire bitter

What's everyone's view on the best priming (or, rather, the most
appropriate for the style) for a 1.045 OG North Yorkshire bitter?

Hitherto I've primed in the bottle but as I've now got two fermenters
bulk priming might be better as there'll be different bottle sizes.
The traditional Aussie lager rate -- about 180g per 23l -- would be
too fizzy. A local fellow brewing expert  suggests 130g.  The brewkit
manufacturer (Muntons) says 85g.  I liked the less gassy UK style when
I drank it draught in UK pubs, and the imported cans aren't all that
gassy either and are very pleasant (John Smith's has 'Bob' - a
widget).

Bernard



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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:58:51 -0400
From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu
Subject: larger batches..

Jeff;

 this may be obvious,..if so, forgive me, but how long does it take for
your sparge (5 gallon versus 10 gallon) and
do you make sure that you maintain temps (168-170F?)  and do you keep an
inch or so of liquor on top of the
grainbed?  Also do you watch pH?  These could all be factors,  I believe...

 ..Darrell



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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 07:10:52 -0400
From: "James Sploonta" <biere_god at hotmail.com>
Subject: Wow!

What is it in my last post that Little Stevie could possibly have read as a 
personal attack on himw to cause such a response? I do believe, Steve, that 
before hitting the send button, you should seek some introspection - or, 
better, professional help - rather than spread your obvious disdain for the 
common all over the internet.

By the way: my hotmail handle was chosen as a bit of fun. Unlike you, I have 
no delusions regarding my stature in the world of brewing. Please refrain 
from gracing my inbox, if not the HBD, with any more of your vitreolic 
prose.



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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:55:17 -0400 
From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com>
Subject: RE: Running out of Sugar Blues

Re: Jeff wrote concerning issues with hitting target gravities on 10 gal
batches.

Efficiency of the Mash can vary based upon Ingredients and Process, most
specifically the grain bill, freshness of grain, and how fine the grain is
crushed.  Your example is extreme.  I highly suggest using a gravity
calculator such as one in Beer In Hand or ProMash.  I've brewed about 6
10-11 gallon batches since using the automated calculators, and I haven't
missed target gravity by more than a point or so... 

Mike Rogers
Cass River Homebrewers
www.hbd.org\cassriverhomebrewers


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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:05:47 -0400
From: "Eric Tepe" <erictepe at insightbb.com>
Subject: Beer and Sweat 2002

Collective,

Fire up those kettles and get ready because Beer
and Sweat 2002 is almost here! What is Beer and
Sweat? It is the nation's only keg competition
hosted by the Bloataring Brewing League in
Florence Ky (which is just south of Cincinnati,
OH). Last year David Faber of SAAZ took Best of
Show with his Bavarian Weizen. This years event
will be on August 17th at the Ramada Inn in
Florence, Ky. You can make reservations at
859-371-4700. Ask for the Beer and Sweat rooms as
we get a special rate.I believe it is actually
lower than last year! All beer styles, including
mead will be judged. As most of you know, Beer and
Sweat is a keg only competition and we will accept
corny kegs of all sizes, sankey kegs of all sizes,
party pigs and mini-kegs. Again, there will be no
2-liters this year. Entry fee is $5 for the 1st
entry, $4 for the 2nd entry, $1 for the 3rd entry.
Each additional entry over a total of 3 is free.
Last year we had a record 131 entries! Boy was it
a party! We will start excepting entries in July
at our web site www.hbd.org/bloat. As always there
will be a great raffle as well. Last year we
raffled off  (3) 50lb bags of malt, as well as
about 80 other prizes. There is plenty of food
near by so no one will have to starve.  For your
information, Florence, KY if only 12 miles from
Cincinnati, 70 miles from Dayton, about 120Mi from
Columbus, 130mi form Indy, about 4 hrs south of
Cleveland and Toledo, 5 hrs south of Chicago,
Pittsburgh, Detroit and Ann Arbor, 80 miles north
of Lexington KY, 100 mi N of Louisville KY, 3 hrs
N from Evansville IN, and about 4-5 hrs N from
Knoxville TN. We look forward to seeing everyone
and having a great time!



Sincerely,
Eric Tepe
Beer and Sweat Coordinator
Bloatarian Brewing League




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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:41:27 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Bjoern Thegeby and Larger Batch Sparge Water Requirements

<Anybody in Toronto who would like to meet for a beer with a Swedish
<homebrewer living in Belgium, during next week (up to June 12)? I could
<bring a local sample or two....Answers by e-mail, please

<Bjorn Thegeby
<Waterloo (No, not that one, the real one)

Bjoern happened to be in Cincy the very night the Bloatarian Brewing League
had its regular meeting at Mecklenburg Gardens.  He put on a great show with
some very interesting beers that are not available this side of the pond.
Everybody had a great time and I can't recommend meeting with him enough.
He is more than welcome here anytime!

 "Jeff Woods" <woodsj at us.ibm.com> notes that his 10 gallon batches run out
of sugar quicker than 5 gallon batches.  He seems to see this as a problem.
When making a 5 gallon batch, I typically use 5 gallons of sparge water to
get the last runnings to about 1.010.  For 10 gallon batches, I usually
don't need more than 8  gallons and I have to add water to the kettle to
make up enough wort for the length of brew.  I don't see this as a problem.
I believe that the greater grain depth of larger batches brings on an
increase in efficiency by exposing the sparger water to more sugar on a per
unit volume basis.  Jeff's experience shows that using less sparge water did
not cause his extraction to suffer since he was shooting for 1.040 gravity
and ended up with 1.050.

The solution to his "problem" is to reevaluate his efficiency calculations
upward.



Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com





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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:29:44 -0500
From: "Chuck Dougherty" <jdougherty at wlj.com>
Subject: re:  length of sparge

Steve Alexander posts in #3955 that commercial brewers use around 1 gallon of
total water per pound of grist, and proposes that this is a good upper bound.
Some of the no-sparge and batch-sparge proponents claim that the greatest
oversparging risk with fly sparging occurs at the top of the grain bed.  The
theory as I understand it is that the top of the grain bed is more thoroughly
rinsed, and thus tannins are leached here first.  So I'm wondering--does the
1 gallon limit apply only when one fly sparges, and would there be a higher
limit if one were to use a batch-sparging technique where the grain bed is
stirred between drainings?  I realize that for "standard" batch-sparging
techniques the point is largely academic because you generally wouldn't pass
the 1-gallon limit anyway, but I have just started experimenting with batch
sparging and am interested in determining the outer limits of this technique.

Chuck Dougherty
Little Rock, Arkansas


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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:50:10 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Length of sparge?

From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
>I thought there was a problem with leaching tannins 
>from husks & creating off flavors from prolonged 
>exposure to husks to higher temps & water.

As long as you maintain mash and sparge pH in the low 5's, say
about 5.2, and do not get above 5.5, you'll be fine.  If you have
soft water add about 1 gram/gallon of gypsum to increase the Ca++
levels by about 60 ppm.  This will help buffer your mash pH 
and kep it in the right range.  By the way, that's 1 gram/gallon 
in your mash and sparge water.  For a 5 gallon batch I treat
10 gallons of water, about 3.5 gallons for the mash, and the remaining
available for the sparge.  

Run your sparge at 1-2 quarts per minute.  I tend for the high end of
that just as a time issue.  I'd rather add an extra pound or two of malt
and save some time throughout the process.  If you are going to run a 
"fast" sparge a mash out may be advisable to reduce the viscosity.

Cheers!

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com





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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:40:50 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: What do you drink from?

UK Brewing Supplies in Lancaster, PA won't do Bernard Morey any good 
in Oz, but for those of us in the States, this looks like a pretty 
good deal if you can get a bunch of friends or a HB club together for 
a case.  That's what I did to put together an order of the new Malt 
Blenders Glass from Scotland.  I'm sure you could even get them 
engraved with a club logo, though perhaps not from this supplier.

  From their web site at http://www.ukbrewing.com/ (click on "Pub 
Paraphernalia"):

GIVE 'EM A REAL PINT IN A REAL PINT GLASS
What better way to serve a pint of ale than in an authentic British 
pub glass? We now offer imperial pint (20 fl. oz.) and half pint (10 
fl. oz) stackable "Nonic" glasses (the ones with the bump) and 
"Tulip" glasses (the Guinness glass). These come with the official 
government "weights & measures" stamp for that "air of authenticity". 
What better to serve your real ale in?

British Pub Glasses w/ government stamp 1 pint (case of 48)
	$63.00
British Pub Glasses w/ government stamp 1/2 pint (case of 72)
	$82.00
<><><>

Shipping is extra, of course.  The "Nonic" style (think "no nick," 
not a rhyme with sonic) are made with that bump or ridge so they can 
be stacked without nicking or wedging together.  It also helps keep 
your forth or fifth pint from slipping through your fingers.  I have 
some I bought nearly 20 years ago from a restaurant supply in Toronto 
when they were really rare on this side of the pond.  These have a 
less pronounced bulge and no government stamped "Plimsoll line" - a 
pint is full right to the brim.  I think this was typical of what we 
found in England 28 years ago.

BTW, I bought these after having the first cask conditioned real ale 
in North America (1985) from a hand pump in a pub in Toronto.  The 
ale was from Wellington County Brewery in Guelph 
http://www.wellingtonbrewery.ca/ and was inspiring.

I have to confess to having been ignorant of real ale when we went to 
England years before.  I don't know if I had real ale or not, but 
probably not since I no doubt bought the brands I saw advertised on 
the sides of buses or just asked for a pint of bitter, or maybe ale. 
Since this was the height of the keg ale push by the big breweries, 
and profits were higher for keg ale, that's probably what I got.  I 
do remember being unimpressed by English ale at the time.

Enough rambling.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:01:05 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: beer pins and badges

Brewsters,

It's not my thing, but for those collectors of beer memorabilia, pins,
badges etc check out:

http://www.beercollections.com/BCadorderPinPins.htm

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:03:16 -0400
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: Corny Threads Identified

Thanks to all who pointed me in the right direction!

I checked a tank plug from a Spartanburg Challenger VI with a GO/NO GO
thread gauge (NIST-tracable certs on request ...) and found the thread to
be a 5/8-18 UNF.  This should be commonly available as threaded brass rod.
Hack the rod off to the appropriate length, through drill (finish isn't
important for the gas side) and tap one end for 1/8 FNPT, use nuts on
either side (with maybe a face gasket next to the gas fitting) and you have
a spiffy bulkhead fitting for your keg fridge.

Mark in Kalamazoo



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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:11:57 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: beercollections

Brewsters,

On further looking, this site I mentioned above( beercollections.com)  has
lots of beer related stuff including glasses, openers, food, books, etc.  I
have no affiliation with them, just thought some might be interested..

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:06:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Art Beall <arthurbeall at yahoo.com>
Subject: Home RO water filter systems

Hello,

I'm considering purchasing a home RO filter system for brewing. I would be
interested in anybodys experience with these systems.

I've been buying RO water from a local shop for several years now. About
 .25/gal. My own water is well water, which has too much iron in it for brewing.
The softened water doesnt work well for me either. The local shop is going out
of business, so I've been considering the home system.

Some of the systems I've been looking at have a DI filter that removes some of
the trace chemicals that slip by the RO membrane. UV light is another option
for killing bacteria. Also, permeate pumps are available for reducing the back
pressure on the membrane and boasting performance(from what the advertisiing
says).

My idea was to use a few suitable plastic barrels to hold the RO water for
brewing. Turn it on the day or two before brewing, and let it fill up. I
occasionally brew large 45 gal batches, so I need about 70 gallons or so for
that. I was thinking the 50 GPD membrane would work fine. 

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.



=====
Art Beall
arthurbeall at yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:12:28 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: FWH - Needs Clarification

Dan, aka "DRTEELE" <drteele at bellsouth.net>, writes from an 
undisclosed location:

>Jeff gives the clearest, most succinct definition of FWH I have seen
>yet.

Thanks you for the kind words.

>Unfortunately, It is still a little vague in defining the hops in
>question, particularly as defined in the standard 3 addition schedule.
>Jeff's def merely referred to the FWH hops as being the 'normal late
>addition hops'.

I'm not sure that I hop in the same fashion as the German brewers in 
the experiment reported in Brauwelt International.  But this is how I 
do it.

Normally (non-FWH), I add bittering hops at the beginning of the boil 
(typically 60-75 minutes), then what I call flavor hops (since the 
aroma gets boiled out but flavor remains) for the last 15 minutes, 
then aroma hops (since, hopefully, most of the aroma remains) at the 
I begin chilling with an immersion chiller.

For FWH, I use this second "aroma" addition in the first wort.  I 
then still use more or less the normal amount of bittering hops 
(although I do take into consideration that the FWH will contribute 
some bitterness) and I also still add the normal aroma hops.  FWHing 
makes a big contribution of hop flavor and a bit of aroma, I think. 
That is what Pete Garafalo was trying to determine at MCAB-1 with his 
triangle test.

So, to recapitulate, I move the entire second addition to FWH and let 
it go from there.  If it seems too bitter, I might reduce the main 
bittering hops next time, but in general, the additional bitterness 
from FWH doesn't seem to be a problem.

If this still isn't clear, let me know.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:33:04 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
Subject: What do you drink from?

homebrew at hbd.orgBernard Morey asks what do we 
drink from...

The heart. 

Yes, I get passionate when I drink good brew. It's a 
soulful experience that is akin to being part of the 
winning touchdown, catching a trophy Bass, hearing the 
sound of wind flowing through the Colorado Aspens on 
a warm summer's day or the return smile from a wanton 
beauty envisaging connubial passion in the pines with 
none but yourself. 

No; a fine beer is not used for simple refreshment on a 
hot day, it's reserved for those moments when the 
universe's Shofar has rendered a call to unity. One 
drinks from the heart, the soul, from our very being.

With that conception; I either tip the bottle itself or use a 
3 Floyds beer glass. 


BTW: If you can find 3 Floyds at a tap near you 
(Greater Chicago area), you are truly blessed. Their 
Behemoth Barleywine Is my personal favorite & the 
Rabid Rabbit requires two glasses minimum.

de KA1J

Gary

Gary Smith

http://musician.dyndns.org

"The only things worthwhile in life are music and cats"
 
 -  Albert Einstein  -




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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:24:55 -0400 
From: djg at ccy.com
Subject:  Recipe for Molsen Porter

> A friend of mine wants me to try to recreate a beer that no longer exists
>  and that I have never had before. It was a Porter that Molsen Brewery
> used
>  to offer. He is describing it as a light bodied porter that was not very
>  sweet but had some body and roastiness. Something like a session porter.
> I'm
>  thinking a combination between a brown ale and a brown porter with some
> corn
>  sugar to lighten the body. My plan would be to use a Scottish Ale yeast
> to
>  promote the malty flavors and get the FG down as low as possible. Has
> anyone
>  out there had this beer and/or tried to make it in the past?
>  
>  Thanks,
>  
>  Daniel J. Gestwick
>  Senior Search Consultant
>  Engineering & Operations
>  Cochran, Cochran & Yale, LLC
>  5900 Main Street
>  Williamsville, NY 14221
>  Ph/716-631-1300
>  Fax/716-631-1319
>  dan at ccy.com
>  www.ccy.com
>  
>  Cochran, Cochran & Yale
>  "Building companies one career at a time"
>  
> 
> 


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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:40:29 -0400
From: "DRTEELE" <drteele at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: FWH - Needs Clarification

Jeff,

Thanks a bunch. That is just the particular info I was looking for. Now I
can adjust most recipes that define 3 hop additions to FWH. In honor of your
wisdom and assistance, I will now schedule a session to produce one of your
highly esteemed CAP brews. Might as well...... it's time better spent than
watching the Cubbies.


Dan

P.S. - This undisclosed location is sunny (and hot, and humid, and downright
miserable for brewing) South Florida. However, West Palm does have a decent
brewstore (HBO- NAYYY) and club ( P.B. Draughtsmen).




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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:47:35 -0400
From: "Robin Griller" <robin_g at ica.net>
Subject: Steve is the man!

Hi all,

What can be said to someone who actually believes that I believe that all
commercial breweries produce bad beer? What can be said to someone who
can't tell that I was having a gentle poke at those who admonish us to
imitate the megabreweries' techniques, by making the point that if they
wanted to brew better beer, many of them would be better off imitating our
techniques? What can be said to someone who doesn't realize that what
happens in a tightly controlled experiment in highly unnatural conditions
may not matter in everyday circumstances?

I do apologize for having the temerity to violate the rules of posting to
HBD according to Steve Alexander. I am now convinced: in the future, no
humour, no fun, no use of brains required for writing or reading. Which is
why I will now endeavour to be as ill-mannered as Steve.

The only person I've ever noticed having a repeated inability to understand
what I or others write is Steve. While he questions my writing skills,
which, I am certain, are less than perfect, I wonder why it has never
occurred to him to question his reading skills. Oh, to be so self-assured!

ciao,
Robin




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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:48:02 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE:  MCAB

Dave Holt asks about how the MCAB works.

Yes, you enter any of the Qualifying events as you would any competition;
they are just competitions which also allow you to qualify for the MCAB.  If
you win first place in any of the Qualifying styles (BJCP style categories
1-20) then you will be invited to enter the MCAB itself for the style(s)
that you win. You are welcome to brew a new batch for the MCAB if you wish. 

In theory all of the beers in the MCAB should be very good beers because
they had all won previously. In practice IMHO there is as much variability
in the entries at the MCAB as any competition because of beer aging or
inconsistencies of the brewers in re-brewing.  However, I was fortunate to
judge the BOS round at this year's MCAB in Cleveland and it was without
doubt the finest BOS round of 20 beers I've ever judged.  We didn't get far
trying to eliminate obviously non-winners before we got into debates.  The
honor of winning at the MCAB should not be under estimated.  So, enter any
of the Qualifying Events just as you normally would and if you win,
certainly it's worth entering the MCAB itself.

Dave Houseman
	


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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 13:59:46 -0500
From: ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies <homebrew at alabrew.com>
Subject: bottles

I made a post to the BMW motorcycle list and got this e-mail back. I told
the sender that I would post it for him on the HBD - please contact him
directly at mailto:davep at quik.com

davep at davep at quik.com wrote:
> I am in Massachusetts, with a 'large number' of
> 'long neck' crown cap bottles, available for adoption.
> (I was going to use them, then didn't/won't.)
> 
> Can you point me to someone in Mass who might use them?
> 
> (I can 'recycle' them, but would rather see them go
> somewhere they can be used.)
> 
> 100 or a bit less, need washing....  8)>>
- -- 
Kim and Sun Ae Thomson
ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies
8916a Parkway East
Birmingham, AL 35206
(205) 833-1716
http://www.alabrew.com
mailto: homebrew at alabrew.com



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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:12:30 -0500 
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: flavour extraction

Steve Alexander writes:

> Louis Bonham 
> wrote quite a
> bit about no-sparge beers that used around 1.5qt/lb total 
> water(see HBD archives).  These beers are quite good, but 
> I've a hunch (after some tests) that the first batch sparge 
> also includes important flavor components to approximately 
> 2.5-3 qt/lb.  Above 3qt/lb or so, IMO  you are diluting some 
> positive flavor components and adding greater amounts of 
> negative ones.

My brewing these days puts me much closer to the 1.5 qt/lb figure than the 3
qt/lb. I have worked under the assumption that the more malt you use, the
more flavour compounds (not necessarily sugars) can be delivered into your
wort. Clearly, for any desired volume and original gravity, the only way to
use more malt is to reduce efficiency of sugar collection. Is this a correct
assumption? Is flavour extraction separate from the process of leeching out
sugars into the surrounding liquid, or do they go hand in hand? IOW, which
will give me the most and the best flavour? Using more malt with low
efficiency, and making up the volume with plain water; or using less malt
with more contact time with sparging liquid, keeping in mind the 3 qt/lb
upper limit? Furthermore, do the flavour compounds extracted change as the
density of the surrounding liquid drops, thereby creating a more complex
flavour profile through sparging than you would get in no-sparge? So many
questions, so little time to experiment. 

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:26:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick <ale_brewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SAB buys Miller Brewing

In HBD#3953, Jeff Renner wrote:

"It may be better for Miller to be a part of a brewing
conglomerate rather than a company that makes
everything from macaroni and cheese to cigarettes, but
it pains me to see any US company go overseas."

Jeff, I agree whole-heartedly.  But I also see a
bright side that others may not.  SAB owns Pilsner
Urquell.  They want to grow it's market share
worldwide.  With the Miller distribution network in
their pocket, I'm hoping we'll see more PU showing up
in bars/restaurants than it would otherwise,
especially in draught form.

One can hope, can't one?

Rick Seibt
Mentor, OH
ale_brewer at yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 15:57:22 -0500
From: "B Noll" <bnoll123 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Basic questions from a newbie

Greetings from someone trying to make it in the HB world.
A quick history--my first experience with homebrewing came when my wife 
purchased a MR. BEER mini-keg system. <The crowd gasps> Needless to say, 
this set-up made a liquid that would lose in a double-blind taste test with 
river water. After three awful attempts using their instructions, I found 
Palmer's on-line book about homebrewing. This I hoped would get me on the 
path to good beer. I am currently waiting on a batch following his 
instructions, but tailored to a smaller 2-gallon amount.
Anyway, with advance apologies to John Asdit and his google suggestions, my 
question is this:  I have purchased a 22-quart aluminum stock pot that I 
wanted to use as a brew kettle for bigger batches. I decided to boil 2 
gallons of water on our electric range as an experiment. It took about 25 
minutes to get a weak boil that read 210 deg Fahrenheit on a candy 
thermometer. I also put the thermometer on the range and got a 275 deg 
reading. After getting the weak boil I noticed that the inside bottom of the 
pot was blackened in the shape of the heat coil. Is this all normal? I've 
read in other posts that electric ranges are insufficient for larger (5 + 
gallons) and am wondering if this applies to 2-3  gallon sizes. I took a 
sample of the water and it seemed clear (Is it a good or bad idea to drink 
the water for test purposes?) Could I use the camper's type portable propane 
ranges with any better results? The pot was purchased from Target and can 
easily be returned if anyone has a better suggestion. In defense of such a 
simple question, I saw no mention in Palmer's book prohibiting the use of 
electric ranges.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!
Brad In Columbia, MO

"Only you can brew beer this good!"
- --Mr. Beer
"Yeah, right!"
- --Me





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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Roberts <psilosome at yahoo.com>
Subject: Beer and America

American Heritage has published an interesting article on the history of
beer in the US (David Craft mentioned this in digest #3946 - I just want
to add that the article is available online):

http://www.americanheritage.com/AMHER/2002/03/beer.shtml

Roy Roberts
NYC



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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:39:38 -0700
From: "Paul Stutzman" <Paul.Stutzman at airborne.com>
Subject: Saccharification: 1 step or 2?

Greetings,

I've noticed that some brewers use 2 rests in the Saccharification
range - one rest in the mid to high 140's (F), and another in the
high 150's.  Most recently I read about this technique when
brewing a CAP.  Is this method only used when cereal is added to
the mash?  Is there any benefit to employing a similar mash
schedule when brewing all malt beers?

Thanks,

Paul




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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:20:55 -0500
From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Cold Break Removal

There was an interesting article in this month's english edition of 
Brauwelt (2/02).  The title of the article was,"Cold break removal 
from cold wort - yes or no?" by H. Kessler.  The article used multiple 
panels of professional and non-professional tasters in blind tests 
of identical recipes with and without cold break reduction (removal).  
The cold break was removed from half the  batches during fermenting 
and starting phases of production.  The recipe was a Meister Pils 
using 90% Scarlett variety barley, well to very well modified 
(<10.2% protein), brewed at Privat-Brauerei Schmucker.

There were many findings in the article, but the one that struck me as 
the most interesting to home brewers was the following quote:

"An additional effect was noted in later tastings of beers in fresh 
condition after 4 to 6 weeks and after two months.  Beers without 
cold break reduction had superior taste stability compared  
to beers with cold break reduction.  This trend was confirmed by 
the results of tasting evaluation of slightly aged beer after four to six 
months..."

The blind tasting panels marked little to no difference in freshly tasted 
beer, but noted superior taste stability in the non-reduced beers over 
time.  This would seem to indicate that cold break left in the fermenter 
may have a beneficial effect on the long-term taste stability of our beers.  

The question then becomes, do we lose the benefit of cold break if we 
transfer to a "secondary" fermenter?  

Point to remember: Since homebrewers usually "remove" their cold break 
through transfer to a "secondary" fermenter or carboy, it doesn't necessarily 
follow that this study would support any negative effect by doing this 
because in the experiment, they reduced the cold break very early in the 
fermentation cycle, rather than after what we would term the "primary" 
fermentation.  

Food for thought.

David Sweeney
Texas Aggie Brew Club (TABC)
Millican, Texas
david at studentlife.tamu.edu
[1067.2 mi, 219.8 deg] (Apparent) Rennerian


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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:26:21 -0400
From: "Joseph S. Gaglio" <jgaglio at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Widgets

Read all about it at:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question446.htm
There are also some interesting links there.
Wassail,
joe
- --
Yours in truth,
Joseph S. Gaglio MHS
http://members.tripod.com/~The_Holeyman/TheHoleymansHome.html

"They counted on being able to punish them into being better, on being
 able to inspire them into being better, on being able to educate them
 into being better. And after ten thousand years of trying to improve
people,
 without a trace of success -- they wouldn't dream of turning their
 attention elsewhere."




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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:39:06 -0500
From: blutick at juno.com
Subject: Call for NHC Judges and Stewards

There's a pretty good home brew competition coming to Texas this month
and we'd love to have you there. Its the second round of the AHA National
Homebrew Competition, of course, and I'm serving as judge coordinator.
I'm taking early registrations of judges and stewards so I don't get
bogged down with paperwork at the event and miss all the fun!

We'll do the judging in two sessions. The first session takes place
Thursday, June 20, starting at 1:30 PM. The second session takes place
Friday, June 21, starting at 8:30 AM. If you plan to attend and wish to
steward or judge this competition, please send a message to
blutick at juno.com and let me know which sessions you'll be available for,
whether you want to judge or steward, your category preferences and
dislikes, and your BJCP ranking (if you are ranked). I'll do the best I
can to see that you get a category that you like.

Jim Layton


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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:03:18 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
Subject: Cheap but good pH meter? 

Hi,

I'm thinking I should get a pH meter. I was given a 
portable one but it's pretty beat up & the probe looks 
like there's a layer on it. I can't trust it so I never use it.

Is there a cheap but good one that I might look for? I 
suppose auto temperature compensation is a good 
thing for it to have.

I'm pretty clueless in this department.

Thanks,

Gary

Gary Smith

http://musician.dyndns.org


Most of us know how to say nothing--few of us know 
when.




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---